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Dave D
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Sorry, I forgot all about setting this area up for you guys.

So...... here it is.


I will move a topic started by Sullivan over here,

and that shall be the start.


Have fun everybody!!

:glad:


Sullivan
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Thanks for setting this up.

We'll just have to wait and see if anyone thinks it a worthwhile topic to add to.

James


choo choo 76
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Thanks for all the fun!

I just joined today, and have read many posts.

The railroaders here seem to be very friendly,
and have helped me out with my questions.

My father got me interested in trains when I was a little one.
That was O gauge and I'm now into HO.

Will be back often as I am excited to read the forums.
I use a special notebook and jot down ideas from the site.
Filled many of pages today.

I am also on a depot committee to keep a museum going after 120 years or so.
Lets all have a grrrreat time running them trains!!!!!!


:slow:  I'm slow and growing old!  

Choo choo   


Michael M
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Doesn't look like this thread has gone anywhere,
so maybe I can help to get it started.

I've ridden many of the short lines and narrow gauge lines out in the West,
and they typically operate at low speeds. 

When I asked the conductor on the Durango & Silverton how fast the train run,
he replied that they usually roll at about 20-25mph. 

I have a rail truck that takes about 3 minutes to go one foot! 

Maybe I'm overdoing it,
but I think we should strive to slow down our trains as much as we can.


Sullivan
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Michael,

There are numerous threads about 'operations' here,
and some have received a comment or three fairly recently...
Just not this one.

I've had to ditch my narrow ops. and railroading,
because of various real-life situations, which don't need amplification here.

However, I am building an HO railroad that uses (gasp) diesel power.
Since it's a one town industrial switching operation, all speeds are slow.
I run about 20 miles tops, sometimes much more of a creep.

Now believe it or don't,
there were narrow gauge operations that sped blissfully along at high rates of speed.

There was a time when a Maine 2-footer, on the Sandy River and Rangeley Lakes,
was said to have made 100 mph!
That was an exception.

Meridian Industrial, 1986


Michael M
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James,

I believe I read somewhere,
that the SR&RL varnish, would often speed along at 50-60mph.

That kind of speed would probably be terrifying,
for passengers traveling on the High Line of the Silverton.

:w:


Most of the narrow gauge lines,
and even some of the standard, out West that I'm familiar with,
typically kept their trains at a very modest speed. 

Some were down-right pokey,
like the Uintah Railway, trying to negotiate their many tight curves.


Salada
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According to surviving historic records,

even heavy NG, such as the D&RGW, seldom exceeded line speeds above about 30mph.


I have yet to see any clear sign of super elevation in period NG mainline photos.


Regards   

Michael


W C Greene
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The SR&RL 2 footer prided itself,
for reaching speeds of 60 MPH on flat tangent sections.

This in itself is going against the old theory,
that a steam locomotive's top speed, was approx. 1.1 times the driver diameter.

The little Forneys and Prairies had drivers around 36" dia. (Sullivan, is that right?)
so theoretically the top end SHOULD be somewhere around 35 MPH.

Where is Mr. Ripley?

The plot thickens...

Woodie


Sullivan
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Woodie et al,

The SR&RL Forneys all had 33" drivers.
Heck, even the 2-6-2 Prairies had 33" drivers!
Go figure.

But yes, they were capable of high speeds.
Now that 100 mph was an anomaly.

In fact, there are stories, one from the Bridgton,
where some of the passengers actually got off the train,
and were walking faster than the loco could pull the train.

So, yeah, we arrive at about 20 mph for the nominal speed.
But given that straight stretch of track don't get fooled.

The engineer might just want to get to beans early,
especially if it's the last run to home for the day.


Michael M
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"In fact, there are stories, one from the Bridgton,
where some of the passengers actually got off the train,
and were walking faster than the loco could pull the train.
"


If that's true,
then my pokey rail trucks 3 minutes to cover 1 foot,
is right on prototypical.


W C Greene
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Another walking story:

On the Bartlett & Western in Central Texas,
after many track washouts and cotton prices dropping,
the railroad discontinued using steam locos (too heavy for the bridges)
and used a pair of Fordson rail tractors,
to haul the cotton bales & cotton oil to the Santa Fe connection.

The crew feared that the train would fall through the old bridges,
so when they came to one, the "engineer" would set the throttle,
and the crew would walk across the creek bed,
while the "train" slowly crossed without them.

On the other side,
the crewmen would climb back aboard,
until they came to another bridge...

Old times in Texas.

Woodie


Sullivan
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That's an excellent story!

Gee, sounds like a railroad to model kinda thing.


Helmut
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The Bartlett Western Rwy. was indeed an interesting affair,

calling at every book of the New Testament!



Tileguy
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Somehow I do not think this thread was intended for the discussion of Operation Speed,
but actual Prototype Operating practices, as they pertain to our own layouts..

Example..
Waybills, time schedules, car card operation...
You know silly little things like that...

Anyone care to comment on how they operate their current layout for realism,
and how they go about it....

This might REALLY get interesting then, even if only a decade or so late.

:)


Steve P
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Hi

I am modeling Union Pacific (Big Boy)
and Southern Pacific (Daylight) in G scale.

Time period of the 40's and 50's.


I have 3 main threads on this site: The Omaha Depot work (this summer's project)
is documented here.

I will also be modeling the San Francisco 3rd & Townsend depot.

This is an outdoor setup, and many compromises will need to be made for terrain, weather, etc. 
To the extent I can, I want to accurately model the depot and freight yard areas for realistic operations.
 
Any hints as to where I can find information on how consists were built, locos were turned around, etc.
at either of these stations, would be greatly appreciated.

Steve


Si.
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Hi Steve  :wave:


Have you been able to find any operations info. for your prototypes ?  ???

It's quite specialized, researching this kinda stuff, for specific locations.  :old dude:

I wonder if there is a 'Union Pacific' archive of some sort out there ?  L:


:)


Si.


Michael M
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You might check with historical societies for both roads,

and see what info they have available.


Michael M
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http://www.snowcrest.net/photobob/3rdst1.html

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/00/f8/1b/00f81b09cb6745e7ff567cfa5ae00faf.jpg

http://photos.wikimapia.org/p/00/03/30/71/06_big.jpg


I'm sure there's a lot more out there.

James Stanford
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Tileguy wrote:  
Anyone care to comment on how they operate their current layout for realism,
and how they go about it....


To manage waybills on the collection of micro layouts I have,
I use an online Waybill / Virtual Freight Forwarding application that I built myself.

The main features I use in the application are train sheets, waybills, and switchlists.
For anyone who is interested, the application is located at:

http://jstan2.pairserver.com/apps/interchangecars2/home .


As far as the actual operation of the layouts,
I use a DCC system and have some sound equipped locos.

When using sound equipped locos I use the horn and bell,
in a way specified in an operations manual I wrote for how to operate my layouts.

Eg, when pushing cars, the bell must be sounding;
Horn to be sounded when starting to move;
Rule 80 in force (all except one of my layouts are switching / shunting layout,
so restricted speed is the norm and it's rare to have more than one loco on a layout).


Regards, James


Michael M
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Here is a link about Hobart Tower:

http://www.railroadmemoirsbycrowner.com/survivingathobarttower.html


Now we may not want to operate our model railroads in such a way,
it is still interesting to read just what a tower has to go through.

There is a section where there is trouble with getting switches and derails to line up.



"...Saturday was a hot day in the middle of a heat wave.
The hot weather during the day and afternoon causes trouble with some of the switches.
Some of the switches will cause trouble or fail because of the heat affecting the rails.

When I came on duty at 10PM, the middle crossovers had failed.
Pat had Amtrak #85 on the Middle track, a 198 train west of Hobart Tower on the North track,
blocking Amtrak and trying to finish a triple over, and U.P. Job 63 waiting at Bandini.
Pat was out rolling switches to get Amtrak going. The mess delayed Amtrak 42 minutes.
I then had to go out and roll the switches back, and flag the 198 train into the Outbound.
Ed Wolfe, the regular maintainer was off to Las Vegas for the weekend.
When Manuel Frias, the backup maintainer showed up, things seemed to have cleared up by themselves.
He did roll the Inbound switch and derail, and put everything back to normal.
It is strange how often things clear up by themselves by the time the maintainer gets to the Tower.
I always feel a sense of relief when the maintainer walks in,
and the problem recurs when he attempts to line the switch or signal.
A number of times, I have called him at home in the middle of the night.
When he says to try the switch again, it works perfectly with him on the phone, and for the rest of the night.
You could get superstitious."




How often have one of us had trouble with a switch?


oztrainz
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Hi all,

I saw this thread bob back up and I thought I chip in with my operating scheme.
It's a little bit different - just like the rest of the layout.

As pinched from elsewhere: 



I model a whole transportation system that is operated probably as prototypically as possible,
based on extensive research and given the technical impossibility of operating this transport system exactly prototyplcally.

But for my transportation system there was no TT/TO, track warrant systems,
no fixed signals or complicated train management system.

Why? Because the line was operated as "one locomotive in steam" -
this meant that there was "nothing to hit" while the only operating locomotive was out there doing its stuff.

Trains ran as often as the locomotive and its train could get from one end of the line to the other,
and its train was swapped for another train going the other way.


The cargo was coal, the gauge was 2', the distance of the run was 1 mile,
and the location was about 400asl above Corrimal, on the side of the Illawarra escarpment in NSW Australia.


The technical "impossibles" were covered in my Corrimal Colliery Incline thread
It's not your usual colliery railway.


Si.
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Hi James  :wave:

Interesting loads you're shipping ...  :old dude:


" SLEEPY JOE SPECIAL
WITH CHINESE BACKED COVER UPS
AND LAUNDER-ABLE UKRAINIAN OLIGARCH SKIRTS FROM CLEVELAND
FROM OUR BASEMENT TO YOURS.
CONSIGNEE: JK CARPETS AND FURNITURE "


Obviously nothing 'dodgy' in THAT car then !  :P


:doh:


Si.


Michael M
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Here is a neat little operation using overhead.

https://ngrm-online.com/index.php?/forums/topic/26812-simple-overhead-construction/

At about 2:30 see how the engineer shoves a cut of cars up a slight grade,
and throws a switch for the cars to roll back on another track.


oztrainz
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Hi Michael, all,

That's the definition of gravity shunting.
It's actually a fly-shunt (uncoupled move)
gravity powered run-around move (very nicely done).

The driver has obviously done it a few times before,
given the way he minimises the amount of walking to be done.

Unfortunately most of our members won't be able to see the video using the direct link,
as the link is to the NGRM (Narrow Gauge Railway Modelling) forum,
which is a closed forum. (no peeking over the fence)


Here's the direct link to the YouTube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFFB8ct6AEM


Also of interest is winch haulage of the locomotive and the empty wagons.
At about 5:40 you see the driver dismount,
shortly after that you can see the locomotive dragging the cable,
as it spots the cars under the bin.

If you look look closely at 6:00,
you can see that the pantograph goes very close to hitting the bin structure,
and that there is no overhead touching the pantograph.

At 7:50, the haulage cable is unhooked and the locomotive is "back on juice".


This 2km-long narrow-gauge industrial outfit was still running in 2018.
The Youtube description gives the output as 430,000 tons/year.
If each of the wagons holds 10 tons of soda ash,
that's still an awful lot of wagon loads that have have to be moved each year



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