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Garratt - Scratch Build
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 Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 12:38 pm
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Bill Fornshell
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The Garratt (Scratch Build) Project had been hidden in the All-Trol RC Thread. It has been moved here to give it a Thread of its own.

Post #1

This Bowser Pennsy T-1 was listed on eBay.  Someone in one of the yahoo train groups I belong to mentioned it.  They were not interested in bidding on it and was just posting the information about.  I didn't know what a T-1 was so I had a look. 

This was a big steam engine.  An 4-4-4-4 something.  It was sitting on a really low bid so I marked it to watch.  The more I though about the T-1 the more I kept coming back to the pictures of the Red Garratt Lucas had posted one chat night a few weeks ago.  I thought I saved his pictures but got a new computer about the same time so I have lost them for now.  The bid on the T-1 stayed low and about half way through the time period I made a bid on it and bought the T-1.  Today I received it.  This is one heavy Locomotive and comes with a really big (Brass) Tender.  It was sold as a kit by Boswer but I bought it built as shown in the picture.   

Anyway, I am going to use the chassis and motors to Kit-Bash the T-1 to some kind of Garratt.  It can be a 4-4-4-4 or a 2-4-4-2 or anything in between.

I am about to start a mockup to get the size looking Ok and gather the necessary detail parts.

Each motor runs good and I am going to install one of my All-Trol Radio Control Systems and run it on Battery power.

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Post #2

I have been looking at several Garratt videos from OZ.  A couple of really good ones from Belgrave Yard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t5uj4r8q3Q&NR=1

The drivers on the T-1 are to big "as is" for HO so it might end up as a On30 Garratt.  I have other drive wheel sets but my smallest is 48" in HO.  I am looking for some smaller ones and if I find them and can make a swap I will stay with HO.

I am going to make a card stock mock-up in several sizes and then decide what scale I will build the final model in.

Post #3

I have been playing with my printer and enlarging the Garratt drawings until I got the drivers from the T-1 the size of the wheels on the drawings.

It turns out to be a scale around 1/44 so I might rounded it off to 1/35 to keep it easier.  The card stock mock-up shows how big the Garratt would be at this scale.  It turns out to be about 16" long.  The track the Mock-up is sitting on is Backmann EZ track in HO scale.

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Post #4

This Garratt is a South African Railways' Class NGG11, 2-Foot Gauge.  It was featured in the NGSL-Gazette - Mar/April 1995 issue.

I will be working on the Card Stock Mock-up of the Red Garratt you sent me sometime this week.  That one might be in HOn3.  I have a MDC Roundhouse Moose Jaw Kit cut to be a 0-4-4-0 but might use it for the chassis of the Red Garratt.  The Red Garratt looks like a good model for HOn3.

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Post #5

I made a Card Stock Mock-up of one of the Garratts Lucas sent me.  It turned out really small.  I have made a new set of patterns in a larger scale.  I enlarged the drive wheels till they were about 36" and the engine door size was more or less OK.  This one is called "Nora".  The UK Train Magazine " Continental Modeller" Nov 2007, page 86, has an article about the Nora.  Anyone see it? Lucas?

I am also getting ready to make a Mock-up of Red Garratt #3.  The #3 Red Garratt drawing is also one from Lucas.  I have the nose tank about finished but no pictures yet.  It looks like Red Garratt #3 maybe On30.

Not to get to far ahead of myself but I am working out some ideas for yet another Garratt kit-bash .  A funky sort of down and dirty "what if" for a logging or mining American Narrow Gauge Garrett.

Post #6

This is what the Bowser Dockside looks like stripped down and sitting as the front power truck for my first running Garratt.  The Dockside runs really nice on DC but will get converted to All-Trol Radio Control w/ Battery Power.

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I made the in-between frame to see how it was going to work.  No problem so far.  I have an HO Passenger Truck at the rear for now.  I am not sure it is necessary to power the rear truck.  I may just use a Dummy unit that will be modified to just roll and will look like the front truck.

As I said the Dockside runs really nice and I don't think I need the extra power.  I am open to "Comments" on the use of a Dummy for the rear power truck.

I am working on the Red Garratt #3  that Lucas sent me a picture of.   I think it is a concept "Garratt" and not a real locomotive.

My picture shows the front "Water Tank".  The front Water Tank is made out of card stock and may get painted Red on Friday.

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The rear power truck will be about the same size as the front Water Tank.  The Fuel Tank will also Pivot or be Articulated like the front Water Tank.  I will work on the Fuel Tank next and then size the Cab and Boiler in proportion to the front and rear units.

Post #7

I have the detail valve kits for both my Bowser Docksides but they are not installed yet.

The first couple of pictures show how the front engine is attached to the middle section.

I have been trying to finish the front Water Tank part of this Garratt. It isn't finished yet but getting close.

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Post #8

I have added the second power truck.  Later today I may try and setup the All-Trol RC System on the chassis and see how it works.

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Post #9

I installed the All-Trol RC Unit in the "Red Garratt" this afternoon.  I played with it a lot till the early morning hours last night getting both engines running in the same direction.  I could never get it to work on track power but so what.  It worked fine on batteries and that is the name of this game.

I have had a lot of fun playing with it on my small test oval.  It runs flat out very well and in both directions.

I am going to take it to my local HO Club on Sunday for their "Fun" run.  That is always interesting.

I need to get the rest of the body finished at least in draft form.  I think I have Garratt fever as I have at least 2 more in the planning stage.

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Post #10

I have made a few design changes and have been busy working out a few details for installing my Radio Control Receiver, the Battery,  the Steam Sound Module, and the Speaker.

I cut out the center of the chassis and have the Battery and RC Receiver inside the Boiler and in a place cut out of the Chassis floor.  The Steam Sound Module and the Speaker are inside the cab. 

You can see the top of the Speaker inside the cab in this picture.



I am using one of the new RailMaster Hobbies 28mm square High Bass Speakers.  This is really a great speaker.

http://www.railmasterhobbies.com/Speakers.htm

They now have this Speaker in a 23mm square size.  I have a few on order.

These pictures show the current status of my Card Stock Mockup.  The red wire that now shows and most of the other wiring that is hidden at this time will get trimmed to size and hidden inside black heat shrink that will look like steam lines if it even still shows.

I just received the Steam Module from All-Trol today and after playing with the adjustments and trying it on two different High-Bass Speakers I am happy with it.  It isn't a full feature LokSound or Tsumami but they don't work on batteries.  I think it sounds OK.  As soon as I get a chance to take it to my local train store I will get their option.

These pictures are how my Garratt looks so far.  This is close to how it will look when I am finished.  The front water tender is different than the brown one.  This water tender is smaller and I think goes better with the smaller size of the Garratt. 

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Post #11

This is all very new to me but I am having fun.  I can tell you that the more I try the more do-able it is getting, not easy but do-able.   

I keep finding more and more great Garratt reference material.  I have also found several articles from others building Garratt models.  I am conflicted and want to keep making changes to my model using ideas from this new material.  I know that I will make several more Garratt models as I find other motor / chassis donors that will work.  I am going to make a couple of small design changes to this Garratt and get it finished.

One of the recent changes has been to add trailing trucks to both the front and rear donor chassis.  The Garratt is now a 0-4-2 - 2-4-0.







Post #12

I have been working on the Red Garratt for several weeks now.  I only had an artists concept color drawing to use and no dimensions to go by so it has been hit and miss.  I have been trying to work out the size and I think this version is as close as I am going to get.  The "HO" scale length is about 70 foot. 

The body part of the Red Garratt is made out of a combination of Wood, Card Stock, Plastic and Aluminum.  The two power units are from Bowser Dockside 0-4-0's.  They run really smooth on RC with batteries.

I have my Eflight 11.1 volt battery located under the boiler just below the frame,  the Radio Receiver is in the boiler, the speaker for the Sound Module is in the Cab and the Sound Module is in the rear fuel tender.

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Post #13

I have always liked the Garratt locomotive but the models of them cost a bit more than my train budget would support.  As I watched others scratch building all sorts of locomotives I decided to try an build a few of my own.  Each one has lead to the next and I will never say it is easy but it is something that I think most of us could/can do.  I have been saving Garratt articles for awhile and one night Lucas posted a picture of a Red Garratt.  When I saw it I thought this is the one I want to try and build.

I have had a few false starts and a couple of side trips.  The first one was two big for HO and really wanted to be On30.  I don't have a place to run On30 so I kept reducing the size of my model trying to get it down to HO size. 

One of the problems was the length of my donor motors.  I am using Bowser Dockside 0-4-0's for the Donor motors.  I needed to do some questionable cutting on the chassis and motor mounts.  I decided to give Bowser a call.  I was passed over to Lee English.  I had several very nice conversations with Mr English.  He went over the chassis and motor mounts and told me what I could cut away without killing it (my words). 

The following is a group of pictures that show how the Dockside Locomotive has gone from stock to modified.

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A short time with a trailing truck.  That is now gone.
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All-Trol Radio Control with on-Board Batteries Installed.
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The beginning of some serious modifications.
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10. But I really want to be On30, maybe next time.


11.  The Incredible Shrinking Garratt. 


12.  The front Water Tender is now about 3/8" shorter than the above picture.  The rear Fuel Tender will be reduced by the same amount and the overall HO - Scale length will be about 67 feet.



How I carry the battery for the RC Receiver.

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Post #14

I have been working on the "For Real" Water Tender the last couple days.  It is finished but still needs paint and details.  The Water Tender is made of layers of plywood and a lot of filing and sanding.  This one is about as close to the prototype as I think I will get. 

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Post #15

The wood looks so nice I may not want to paint it.  It is about like when I got my first Brass McKeen. It still is not painted.  I don't even want to drill the hole for the front headlight.  Maybe I can say it is painted Tan with Red Stripes and is used only in the daylight and on nice weather days..

Starting to add some color:



Post #16.

"Let There Be Light". 

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Well that went well easy enough.  I am using a small LED at both the front and rear.  The front lights when going forward and the rear light works when going in reverse. 

Post #17

I had received a box with a pack of 9 different colors of 30 gauge wire from Train Control Systems (TCS) last week.  I wanted to replace all the heavy wire on the Garratt with 30 gauge to reduce the bulk of the wire.  I worked on the wire change over this evening. None of this was hard but it did take a bit of time to solder wire to all the little connectors.

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One of the things I realized in doing this is that the wiring for all the different parts of the Garratt looked just like the wiring necessary to install a DCC Decoder with sound and lights.  If I ever buy another DCC Decoder I will install it myself.  The mystery of where all those wires go, is gone.

The All-Trol system uses an "off the shelf" 9-wire harness made by TCS.  The plug in thing in the Radio Control Receiver is also a TCS item. 

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3.  The wires that are twisted together go together such as the red and black wires go to the battery, the yellow white and blue go to the front and rear lights, the orange and gray go to the trains motor or in the case of the Garratt two different motors, the purple and green could be used for track power if you wanted RC but without batteries.  In the next patch of receivers, a receiver will be made just for battery power and the purple and green wires will be removed.
   


Post #18

I have been confounded by not being able to get enough space for all the RC stuff in or under the Garratt loco boilers that I had made.  I took a look at all my engine kits to see if anything else might work better.  I tried this boiler/loco. 

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This locomotive has enough room after a couple of small modifications for both the battery and the RC Receiver.  The cab will also hold my speaker.  The sound module will go in the fuel tender. 

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This isn't just what I had planned for but I have space for everything without using a follow-along car.  I am going to finish this Garratt with this boiler cab combination and see how I like it.  I have several modifications to make such as removing the sand domes and making the steam dome a bit taller.  Adding some detail parts and finishing the rear fuel tender. 

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Post #19

I spent some more time tonight doing a cut and paste job on the new Boiler.  I added a 3/8" section to the rear of the of the boiler, closed off the front of the cab, changed the nose, filled and sanded the holes where the sand domes were and filled and sanded the cracks from the cut and paste.

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Post #20

To commemorate the K1's birthday I spent some of today working on my RC Garratt's fuel Tender.  I don't want it to take 100 years for me to finish my first version of a Garratt  as I have several more Garratts planned.
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Last edited on Sat Dec 19th, 2009 02:00 pm by Bill Fornshell

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 Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 07:10 pm
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Lucas Gargoloff
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FANTASTICO!!!!!!!!!! :2t: I like it!! Let me say is an excelent job of bashing a locomotive. Now, you keep me to try mine soon!! L:



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 Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 08:07 pm
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W C Greene
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Bill-she looks great! Keep going. The motor placement in the Bowser Docksides does make hinging the loco difficult, but it looks like you have it figured out. I was lucky to find Mudge's 2 IHC Docksides for my loco, I could stand the motors vertically which made the hinging a lot simpler. If I need to take #4 apart again, I will take photos to show how I did it but I don't feel like disassembling a fine running loco for some pix at the moment. Also, in a larger scale, I have room in the boiler for the r/c board and under the superstructure for the 2 cell 7.4 volt battery.

Again, she's a looker. You can be proud of your efforts.         Woodie



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 Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 03:39 pm
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Bill Fornshell
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Adding a few details.

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Last edited on Sun Aug 22nd, 2010 06:38 pm by Bill Fornshell

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 Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 04:13 pm
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Stickboy
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Excellent work. That is going to look great!

Phil



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 Posted: Sat Jan 16th, 2010 06:55 am
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teetrix
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Looks great :thumb:, but  I would suggest making the smokebox bigger and declare the saddle tank as "boiler". Short, chunky boilers are very common on Garrats, providing the space for a large diameter boiler was one of the big pros for this design.

Btw, if you like something bigger, try this :bg::

http://users.powernet.co.uk/hamilton/garratt-mallet.html

Sometimes I'm thinking about something similar... using two Mantua artic loggers... But where is the layout to run this 1 3/4' piece  :shocked:

Michael

Last edited on Sat Jan 16th, 2010 06:56 am by teetrix

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 Posted: Sat Jan 16th, 2010 11:08 am
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Bill Fornshell
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I am actually building this Garratt from a "concept" illustration of a smallish size Garratt. I am using that as the prototype for this model.

This is a Radio Control model so I had to make a few things a bit larger to hold the RC Receiver, Sound Module, Speaker, Battery etc.

I have two of the Mantua Loggers like I think you are talking about. One of them is the chassis that got banged up. It had its body removed and I bought it very cheap. It is new and runs great. The second one was sort of used but looks new and runs great.

My next Garratt will be a USA "concept" Garratt.

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 Posted: Sat Jan 16th, 2010 10:15 pm
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W C Greene
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Bill-a USA concept Garratt? Wonderful. If some of the Colorado NG roads had ever used Garratts, they might have been able to hang on a while longer. It's a shame that there is only ONE Garratt in the US, it is owned by some guy in Houston who runs it (?) on his 2 foot gauge loop of track. At least that's the story.  Woodie



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 Posted: Sat Dec 31st, 2011 12:16 pm
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Extermy
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Bill, this is a very interesting project that you tackled - Have you finished your project and how does it look now - I have been look around now for several weeks to get to someone that can assist or have a look see how it is being done - I am planned to start the AD60 GARRETT and have requested plans to do so. Nice!:glad:

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 Posted: Sat Dec 31st, 2011 01:44 pm
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hostler
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Great job, great Pictures...Thanks for sharing them with us!

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