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W C Greene
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Here are some pix of some 18" gauge mining stuff from Clifton, Arizona. This was taken in front of the Phelps Dodge company offices. Enjoy.



Here is a little electric mine lokie, the pole has been removed.



Grandt Line makes a model of this Koppel side dump cart in HO & O scale.



The Koppel car had this tiny knuckle coupler, smallest I have seen on a non-miniature line. The cap shows the approx scale.



Here is a little O&K "V tipper" car.



A "crane" car for inside a mine and to the right is a cool little "front end loader" mining car.



another view of the "front end loader" car. This is just a sample of the stuff out there in Clifton...home of the 20" gauge railroads..There is more if anybody wants to see it. Arizona is a museum for old forgotten railroad and mining equipment,   Woodie

Sullivan
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Boy, I'd like to be in Clifton right now!! That sky sure does look inviting.

Seems to me all that's missing on the lokie is some fool holding the "death wand" and it's good to go.

Thanks for those pics, Woodie.

Huw Griffiths
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Sullivan wrote: Seems to me all that's missing on the lokie is some fool holding the "death wand" and it's good to go.

That's a shocking idea.

Excellent photos - fascinating subjects - I could lose myself for ages in places like that.

Regards,

Huw.

W C Greene
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I will send some more pix as soon as I can get them uploaded to PB. I have some pix of the countryside around Clifton/Morenci and some shots of real 20" gauge steam locos sitting by the side of the road.  Later...Woodie

teetrix
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Thanks, Woodie - exactly the inspirations I need for the new layout :thumb:

Michael

W C Greene
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OK, here are a couple of more photos of 18" gauge mining equipment in Clifton. Also, there are some photos of what the "countryside" is like out there along the AZ-NM border.



This battery mine loco is in a small roadside park in Clifton along with some other cool old stuff. I remember that Alexander Scale Models made a kit for this (unpowered) in HO and Grandt Line had one that was powered in On3/On2.



This "V tipper" was in the same little park. There have been many kits in most scales for this one. There are even kits in 1:32 scale-quite a popular little car. Next are some shots of the area, just scenery.



The Coronado RR (20" gauge) ran along a ledge in the upper left, barely visible. The 3 foot gauge Shannon Arizona ran across the gulch, you can still see it's grade.



This view is along side Chase Gulch headed to Morenci, the railroad grade has been covered by rockslides now.



Here's another of Chase Gulch, the Coronado RR serviced a mine on the hillside here, nothing is left but rocks, cactus, and rattlers. I hope everyone enjoys the scenery and neat displays in this narrow gauge "paradise".     Woodie

Last edited on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 08:34 pm by W C Greene

Sullivan
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Makes me feel the urge for a road trip...

Scenery shots are always good. I myself desperately need to get down to Terlingua with a camera and a bunch of old coffee cans. :bg:

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Wow...I have lived in Arizona nearly all of my life and never made it out to the Coronado trail...seems like it's time for a road trip!  Thanks for the photos, Woodie!

That front-end loader, by the way, was called a 'mucker' by the miners.  It was used to load the loose ore in the stopes after blasting.  Before the invention of these, they would put a sheet of iron in front of the rock face before setting off the charges, and use that as a surface to shovel the ore into cars.  Backbreaking work!

W C Greene
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Thanks for the info on the mucker! That would certainly make a great little model and add plenty of detail to a mining operation. You need to get up to Clifton sometime. The "Copperhead' is there as well as lots of neat equipment. Further up the gulch, the big Phelps Dodge mine has covered the old town of Morenci with tailings, but further up, New Morenci has another 20" loco and ore car on display. Down from Clifton, in Safford there's another 20" loco at a small museum and in Phoenix, there's still another loco. If you make it to Clifton, be sure to check out "the Cave", a local saloon with very cold beer and of course downtown Clifton where the street is so narrow, 2 cars can't pass each other. As you might have guessed, I love the place. And to top it all off, only 40 miles to the east is...MOGOLLON.   Woodie 

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Looks like  it was a fun filled excursion. Nice photo'. Cold beer, small mining towns and narrow gauge , What more could a guy ask for?!! 

Sullivan
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Again...these shots really make a guy want to head out on a road trip. Arizona just looks so good in these shots. Never been but might have to put it on the ol' wish list.

Still, Terlingua would be a "mite" closer.

Any more pics ya got Woodie would be sorely appreciated.

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I can see why you like #2 so much!

But why do they like to put Dizzyland paint jobs on locos that are on display? I know that they want to catch the eye of the general public, but don't they understand that railfans and modelers are MUCH more important?


Herb:old dude:

W C Greene
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Herb-if you think those paint jobs are "Disneyesque", then you need to look at some "south of the border" paint jobs on working locos. I have this book about US locos used around the world and in the "far east" there are Shay locos painted up red, blue, maroon, orange, and yellow...and that's on ONE loco! Of course that's a bit too much for me but I do have a "British racing green" 4-4-0 with gold striping & lettering-it is used by the Gila Tramway to haul tourists to the cliff dwellings. And Shay #1 has a blue boiler. I just can't help it!         Woodie

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I saw the "blue" boiler and thought that it was "Russia iron".

And please don't get me wrong, I do not think that the only color for steam locos is black--you just did a Canadian engine that was a knockout. The British had a good sense of colo(u)r on their steamers---but not white driver tires and sand pipes or cylinder end covers. Even a lot of early American (pre war between the states, or war of secession depending which side you favor) had multi-color paint schemes, and I would expect to see a model of one replicate that. But  a model of a utilitarian mine loco? Any white paint would be black in a day or two. Rather than do needed maintenance the East Broad Top RR spends time and money painting the driver tires white- go figure.


Herb-- resident grump who can find lots of things to criticize!  :old dude:

W C Greene
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Remember Herb that my railroad runs very close to "the border" and in a land of rocks and cactus, there has to be color of some sort. If you want to see color, look at Muj's little Mason Bogie...I think it has 4 colors!  I kinda like the white tires and siderods, it is something to watch when the loco runs along. Add valve gear to this and it becomes almost "hypnotic" or something like that. And that Canadian Pacific paint job...well...            Woodie

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I think these Porters were originally delivered in a brown and maroon scheme...for those willing to pay for the fancy schmancy paint job.  On my road, you're lucky if there's a coat of paint on her... 

:cb:

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What happened to the guy who was working with the Az Mining Museum to see if #2 could be put back in steam? He was at the museum about a year ago when I went through...

W C Greene
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Duane-you know how those museum types move around, he'll probably resurface. BTW-if you are interested in SW history, etc. books (bet you are), make it to Benson, AZ and find the SINGING WIND book store.  This place is out in the desert and has the largest and best inventory of rare and unusual books, etc. I found my old Mogollon Diary book there and if I had several thousand to spend, I could surely spend it there. I have some detail shots of ACC "Copperhead" 0-4-4t in Clifton if anybody is interested. and more shots of neat stuff out there.    Woodie

PS-I just "Googled"  and Singing Wind is shown...check it out... 

Last edited on Tue Jan 12th, 2010 02:29 am by W C Greene

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I heard about his interest from the curator in a recent visit, but do not know his name.  I am no expert in the restoration of steam locomotives, #2 got a cosmetic restoration in the early 90s after sitting as a derelict on Coronado Mountain with two of her sisters for 67 years.  She is approximately 120 years old.  Doesn't sound too promising without complete rebuilding, new boiler, new everything.  Of course it can be done, it comes down to time and money...

Another challenge...where to run it?

Of course, I would love nothing more than to see...and hear...her run again.

:cb:

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With the modern regulations, a new, certified boiler for sure. Paperwork tracing the existing boiler to the the drawings and engineering stress calculations made when it was built seem to be necessary, along with ultrasound examination for thickness of the metal, and a hydro test. Even then, some building practices from back in the old days (lap seam construction for example) are cause for rejection. If any of the above are missing---forget it----

From personal experience back in the late '70's, the Australian government has very strict standards for pressure vessels---Comments from folks "down under"?


Herbie :old dude:

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Getting #2 under steam seemed farfetched to me too, likely we can only dream of seeing it pull a string of ore cars through Chase Creek again...or we can play with model trains! W.C: I'm planning another trip to Sonora and Arizona this spring, will check out the Benson bookstore, thanks, Duane

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WARNING...Possibly off-topic post here...

OK...I couldn't help myself. I looked up the book store and found this blurb containing directions...


Singing Wind Bookshop



Books on the American Southwest


A great bookstore devoted to the American Southwest. At Benson, Arizona, on I-10, take exit 304 north on Ocotillo Road; go about 3 miles north and look on the right for a roadsign saying "Singing Wind Road"; go right on Singing Wind to a green gate (chained) and a Singing Wind Bookshop sign; open gate, go through, close gate; go to the ranchhouse; ring the bell; cats may come, but someone who works at the bookstore will almost certainly come. Expect to be amazed. -Leif Smith, who accidentally discovered this bookstore in December 98.

Contact: Winn Bundy, Singing Wind Bookshop, P.O. Box 2197, Benson, AZ 85602; 520-586-2425.


Not the usual method for walking in the front door of a shop for sure. Sounds to me like Peach Head would be right at home.

Last edited on Tue Jan 12th, 2010 06:43 pm by Sullivan

W C Greene
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James-let me assure you...if you get to the Singing Wind book store...you will NEVER WANT TO LEAVE! This is a place where you can find obscure and wonderful books, sit on the floor and read some, drink some tea or coffee, rummage through boxes of even more old books...and the outside of the place is all you would ask for...they have some old pickup trucks rusting away, old tractors, old equipment, a very cool old water tower and several old funky buildings that just beg to be modeled. We found out that you NEED to call first and let them know you are coming, then they will open the gate. Otherwise, the ladies who own the shop may meet you at that gate with a double barrelled 12 gauge full of 00 buckshot. This may be "off topic" but after all, we are all "off our rockers" anyway.      Woodie

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My wife, an incurable book nut, has heard about the Singing Wind and always wanted to visit.  Now, suddenly, after seeing these posts, we are talking about when we can visit and then take the Coronado Trail north through Clifton and Morenci to the White Mountains.  Thanks, guys!

:cb:

W C Greene
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When you get to Clifton, be sure to get a cold beer at THE CAVE. It is like a cave inside and the locals will greet you like a segment of CHEERS...."Norm!"

                                          Woodie

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Not to be confused with the Cavern in Nogales, Sonora, where no self respecting gentleman would dare set foot. I love that place!

W C Greene
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Makes me wish the Bloated Goat was still around also...       Woodie

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There something about those tacky and tasetless bars in funky mining/cowtowns. I havent been to the Cave in Clifton, and the Bloated Goat was gone long before I lived in the area, but I highly recommend knockin down a few suds at "Uncle Bills" Bar in Reserve, or the Buffalo Bar in Silver City and its obvious things havent changed that much there.

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Hope you guys don't mind a newcomer crashing the party...I'm interested in the DCC #4 engine if anyone has more detailed specifications, drawings, photos or measurements.

Thanks,

Gary

W C Greene
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Gary-WELCOME. I can't find any photos of DCC #4, I am sure they are out there. Here are some specs...0-4-0t Porter..#3367...blt 12/95...11X14 cylinders...28" dia drivers...and she was outside frame. You might check with the guys at CORONADO SCALE MODELS in Phoenix, they seem to know everything about SW funky narrow gauge. If you locate any photos, etc...please share them with us.   Woodie

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Thanks for the info...I gave the wrong number though...I'm interested in DCC #2, HK Porter c/n 814, which was the sister engine to ACCo #4 (c/n 815).  Sorry for the confusion.

W C Greene
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There is a 1:48 scale drawing of this loco in the 2004 FINESCALE RAILROADER  Logging, Mining, & Industrial Annual. Larry Hargis did the work on this-page 43. This is a cool little lokie, by using an On30 Bachmann 0-4-0t Porter as a basis, a very close replica could be built in 3/8" (1:32) scale...running on On30 (16.5MM) track, it would be right on for 20" gauge. Hope this helps. The loco is still around, I believe in Phoenix.     Woodie 

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Woodie, thanks again for the info...Larry was kind enough to send over some drawings, so it looks like I'm on my way. 

I'm trying to do this in 1:48 scale, using a Grandt line kit as a starting point, but most of the loco will be entirely scratchbuilt...should be a challenging project.

Gary W.
Brownsboro, Tex.

W C Greene
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Cool-if you ever get to Dallas, let me know and we can run some ore to the smelter.

                      Woodie

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Thanks for the invite, would love to!  IIRC, you're running R/C power, right? 

An in-person RC tutorial would be great...I also have an On3 Porter project in the works for a wood-rail East Texas logging tram, hoping to power it with R/C.

I'll pm you my contact info so we can get that ore shipped off sometime!

W C Greene
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Yep on all counts. PM me and the Bloated Goat will be open for business.    Woodie

Herb Kephart
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ATTENTION ALL FREERAILS PERSONNEL

It would appear that one Woodrow Clyde Greene has found yet another kindred soul!

Antennas will be extended and batteries charged!

Ore will be moved!

The smelter smelt!

No telling what all this might lead to-----



Herbie :old dude:

W C Greene
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WARNING WILL ROBINSON-HERBIE APPROACHING! 

                                 Boudreaux

grywht
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ebtm3 wrote: ATTENTION ALL FREERAILS PERSONNEL

It would appear that one Woodrow Clyde Greene has found yet another kindred soul!

Antennas will be extended and batteries charged!

Ore will be moved!

The smelter smelt!

No telling what all this might lead to-----



Herbie :old dude:


Now that's funny right there!

Sullivan
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Herb is dead serious and Dr, Smith is cowering in the corner.

W C Greene
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Well then, I will just go to The Cave and get drunk! Ahhh, The Cave...where the men are men and the women look like men also!

                                  Woodrow

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Howdy Woodie :cb:

Some really nice photos of small prototype mining equipment !

Thought I'd dig this ol' dusty one up outta the Arizona dirt...
...I'm pretty sure 18"/15" mining stuff goes down well in dees parts !

:moose::moose::moose::moose::moose:

Si.

W C Greene
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Yes, Si....Glad you gave this old thread another read. One of the posters was Verne Niner (Niner 49er) who is now running one of those little Porters in the great beyond.
And yes, if you decided to model 3/8" scale (1:32) on On30/HO gauge...it becomes...20" gauge! Therefore, if I wanted to (and have before), I could call my 35n2 32n20 without any changes whatsoever! Whatta wonderful thing!

Woodie

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I wish this thread had been resurrected before we travelled 5,000 miles to check out the Clifton/Morenci area ! We arrived very cold, tired & hungry and somehow missed out on all this lot.

The 'front end loader' that Woodie photo' is a Rocker Shovel Loader. Designed, manufactured and patented by EIMCO (US) they are one of the best bits of mining kit ever invented, saving many hours of back breaking work. The shovel swings up and right over and discharges into a rail mounted tram/tipper/skip towed behind the loader. Powered by compair they are self propelled via a trailing air hose so they can push/pull their own trams behind them though Woodie's example is missing the 'forward-reverse' controls.

Looking at the poster's names makes me think " where are they now ?"; I didn't know Verne was no longer with us.

Regards, Michael

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Michael...sorry you didn't see what you wanted. Clifton is not a "railfan" stop unless you are prepared to look around. I trust you saw "Copperhead" sitting next to the highway and in front of the "underground" jail. It wasn't raining nor cold when I was there but The Cave was air conditioned and the Budweiser was cold...the patrons were as nice as could be, we even got 2 beers on the house! I was planning to move to Clifton until I met someone here who persuaded me not to leave Tejas.

Maybe someday...........
Woodie

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Howdy Woodie :cb:



I know you're busy moving crib, building the new rusty R.R. , swillin' 'Shiners', wotchin the tube etc. etc. ;)


But ...

... can you EDIT your Posts with the Clifton photos in ?


'PhotoBastard' (TM) have EATEN your mine-cars !! :shocked:



:old dude:



Si.

Salada
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Now THAT is weird !.

Little 'ole non tekky me with my 'hot tube' Soviet Army issue 'pooter can now see ALL of this post incl all pikkies. That download thing I found t'other day really works.

Who needs to know how to tell a a bite (byte?) from a full sandwich !!

Na zdrovya,    Michael    (that's Ukranian for Cheers)


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