Freerails Home 
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register

Freerails IS ACCEPTING new Members ... To join Freerails ... See how to Register as a Member in the 'Joining Freerails' Forum

Making Freelance Models ...
 Moderated by: W C Greene Page:    1  2  3  4  5  6  Next Page Last Page  
New Topic Reply Printer Friendly
 Rating:  Rating
AuthorPost
 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2010 03:51 pm
  PMQuoteReply
1st Post
Herb Kephart
Moderator


Joined: Thu Jul 19th, 2007
Location: Glen Mills, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 6075
Status: 
Offline
Recent "conversation" with a member lightly touched on the subject of freelance models.

My feelings are that if a model is constructed to look like A prototype, without slavishly copying any particular real piece, it is fine with me. I'm not talking about a model with missing grab irons, for instance (please no pictures of real cars without them!), the model should be logical, believable, and usable if it was real.


Comments, and opinions???


Herb :old dude:



____________________
Fix it again, Mr Gates--it still works!"
Back To Top

 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2010 09:04 pm
  PMQuoteReply
2nd Post
W C Greene
Moderator


Joined: Fri May 4th, 2007
Location: Royse City, Texas USA
Posts: 7780
Status: 
Offline
Herb-do you REALLY want my opinion?

                Boudreaux



____________________
It doesn't matter if you win or lose, its' how you rig the game.
Back To Top

 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2010 10:17 pm
  PMQuoteReply
3rd Post
Herb Kephart
Moderator


Joined: Thu Jul 19th, 2007
Location: Glen Mills, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 6075
Status: 
Offline
Wasamatter WG-- afraid that the criteria is too restrictive?

Common- spit it out!!!  :) :)


HK  :old dude:



____________________
Fix it again, Mr Gates--it still works!"
Back To Top

 Posted: Wed Jan 13th, 2010 12:08 am
  PMQuoteReply
4th Post
Huw Griffiths
Registered


Joined: Wed Oct 21st, 2009
Location: Cwmbran, Wales, United Kingdom
Posts: 264
Status: 
Offline
ebtm3 wrote: Recent "conversation" with a member lightly touched on the subject of freelance models.

My feelings are that if a model is constructed to look like A prototype, without slavishly copying any particular real piece, it is fine with me. I'm not talking about a model with missing grab irons, for instance (please no pictures of real cars without them!), the model should be logical, believable, and usable if it was real.


Sounds fair enough to me - but that's what got me interested in narrow gauge in the first place.

The other year, I saw a NG version of a Wisbech & Upwell steam tram at a club open day. (The real things were all standard gauge - and scrapped many years before I was born.) Even though the model was only part-built at the time, what had been finished was very impressive - all the pipes, valves and dials visible above the footplate looked very credible. Knowing the gentleman who was building this - and having seen other examples of his handywork - I knew the completed model was certain to be something special. It got me thinking about whether I could build something similar, but based on a different design - I'm currently working out the best way to go about it (but it's likely to take a while, if it happens).

There are also plenty of superb examples of this sort of stuff posted on Freerails (and on various other sites I'm a member of).

 

One thought has occurred to me: At what point does a model become freelance - where does the real modelling end and the "imagineering" begin?

This question might sound crazy. I don't think it is. No model has ever been built that is a perfect scale replica of the prototype (but some have come incredibly close) - some compromises are unavoidable.



A lot of train (and car) manufacturers have got people to build models of proposed designs - some of which get turned into prototypes - some go no further than mock-ups. Even the ones that get built for real probably get modified before the design is signed off.



Publicity pictures are sometimes issued of designs that companies want to make - but never get any orders, so they don't get built. A good example of this is on the "Wickham of Ware" Yahoo e-group. About 30 years ago (I think), Wickham were involved with initial pre-production prototypes for what became the Pacer 4 wheel railbuses for British Rail. Someone thought they might be able to sell a variant to other (probably NG) railways, so drawings were prepared - and photographs mocked up - for a sales pamphlet (a scan of which ended up on the Yahoo). The main differences between the real prototypes and the proposed spin-off were in dimensions, track gauge and whose coachwork got used - the real ones used Leyland National parts - the spin-off would have used body parts by Marshall.

I've been trying to work out how to build a model of it (probably in Oe, or thereabouts) - I don't know if I ever will. If I get chance to build it, I don't know what to call it:

  • As far as I know, the real thing was never built - so it wouldn't be a replica model.
  • However, it would be closely based on published drawings of a planned design, issued by a reputable rolling stock manufacturer - so it probably wouldn't really be enough of a flight of fancy to qualify as freelance.
I'm not sure what it would be - I don't know what anyone else thinks - but does it really matter until / unless it actually gets built?

 

Regards,

Huw.

Back To Top

 Posted: Wed Jan 13th, 2010 12:22 am
  PMQuoteReply
5th Post
W C Greene
Moderator


Joined: Fri May 4th, 2007
Location: Royse City, Texas USA
Posts: 7780
Status: 
Offline
Well then, if a model of no known prototype is built-that model would be the prototype. Hmmmmm.....             Woodrow



____________________
It doesn't matter if you win or lose, its' how you rig the game.
Back To Top

 Posted: Wed Jan 13th, 2010 12:54 am
  PMQuoteReply
6th Post
Herb Kephart
Moderator


Joined: Thu Jul 19th, 2007
Location: Glen Mills, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 6075
Status: 
Offline
Huw wrote-

"This question might sound crazy. I don't think it is. No model has ever been built that is a perfect scale replica of the prototype (but some have come incredibly close) - some compromises are unavoidable."

The closest that come to being true to prototype are the large scale live steam guys- and their boiler tubes and injectors are way oversize out of necessity, because water and heat don't scale worth a darn, for one example.


"A lot of train (and car) manufacturers have got people to build models of proposed designs - some of which get turned into prototypes - some go no further than mock-ups. Even the ones that get built for real probably get modified before the design is signed off."


Been there, done that. Accepted a commission from an engineering firm proposing new cars for the Boston Transit system (The MTA, that Charlie couldn't get off of).
Working from "official" prints, I built and delivered a 1/24 model.When the contract was signed by the transit authority, and the new cars came from Japan, my model had the right number of windows, and color scheme.


Herb:old dude:



____________________
Fix it again, Mr Gates--it still works!"
Back To Top

 Posted: Wed Jan 13th, 2010 01:42 am
  PMQuoteReply
7th Post
madmike3434
Registered


Joined: Tue Mar 31st, 2009
Location: Whitby, Ontario Canada
Posts: 656
Status: 
Offline
ebtm3 wrote: Huw wrote-

"
"A lot of train (and car) manufacturers have got people to build models of proposed designs - some of which get turned into prototypes - some go no further than mock-ups.
Even the ones that get built for real probably get modified before the design is signed off."



Herb:old dude:


If thats true, i would like to know which set of sign offs , signed off on the PONTIAC AZTEK, and if so did they get fired from GM = generous motors for producing the possibly ugliest vehicle ever produced .

mike

Back To Top

 Posted: Wed Jan 13th, 2010 10:46 am
  PMQuoteReply
8th Post
Huw Griffiths
Registered


Joined: Wed Oct 21st, 2009
Location: Cwmbran, Wales, United Kingdom
Posts: 264
Status: 
Offline
Mike,

I could happily make similar comments about some of the stuff coming out of Renault these days - especially the Megane hatchback.

Also, trains don't seem to be immune from criticism. In the UK, Freightliner's new Class 70 locos have recently come in for flak in the looks department. Somehow though, I can't see the company being too worried as long as the things work.

Regards,

Huw.

Back To Top

 Posted: Sun Jan 17th, 2010 08:44 am
  PMQuoteReply
9th Post
teetrix
Registered
 

Joined: Sat Nov 29th, 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 267
Status: 
Offline
Renault - do they really like to sell cars?  I remember the FIAT Multipla also, which got an design award of the association of car insurances - as the first car ever, which looks better after a frontal crash :bg:

But back to the thread : of course a big PRO for freelancing.

Building a model as correct as possible to a prototype is a great way to modelling. You need a big stock of photos from every detail, drawings, and can build a model to be proud of. But you don't need to understand how it works at all.
Its like cooking with a good cookbook - everyone is pleased, it's a great dinner, but you only must read carefully and follow the instructions. If you forget or change something, everyone will note it.

Building a freelance model is completely different. You must know how the things work. You must know what your railroad needs. You must decide what you like to use (kits and models for bashes, detail parts etc). You must know something about the era and area of your model - design trends, state of the art in technical solutions, safety rules. You must be creative to find a suitable, believable and logical solution. It's great if someone takes a look at the model and ask: Is there a prototype or not?
If you are cooking this way, you ask: What I like to eat today? Which food I do have or can buy? Who is coming to dinner? The result is unique. Nobody knows what you have changed or forgotten, if the dishes have the right taste for everyone.

Pilotfriend has a great article about the design of his freelance railcars:
http://www.009.cd2.com/railcar.htm

If important parts are missing on a model - i.e. grab irons - or something is not able to be happened - i.e. bridges which would be destroyed from their own weight - that's not freelance, thats only a bad model.

Michael






Last edited on Sun Jan 17th, 2010 11:17 am by teetrix

Back To Top

 Posted: Sun Jan 17th, 2010 01:40 pm
  PMQuoteReply
10th Post
Bob H.
Registered


Joined: Sat Oct 11th, 2008
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 512
Status: 
Offline
Ive modeled prototype, and free lance. I have found satisfaction in both. I do agree the freelance model should be a "working design" . On the other hand, is there only two levels of Modeling?  Prototype & freelance? Is there No "just for fun" or "satire" so to speak? Or is having fun no longer part of this hobby? 

Should the creator having enjoyed his /her build and have the nerve enough to post it on a forum (where ever) no matter how good or bad the work or design may be, they obviously put forth the honest effort to try.  Personally if the work is that bad I dont have the heart to degrade the person/work for attempting the build in the first place but, kind suggestions are in order.  After all, we all  started somewhere.

 The Pontiac Aztec? :shocked:OMG what was going through their minds?!!! My brother in law drove one  the pre-production models by the house I LMAO asking what the :us: is that?

Now, tell me why GM failed...

Last edited on Sun Jan 17th, 2010 01:46 pm by Bob H.



____________________
Chief Dog Scratcher & President Possum Ridge Railway.
Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing
...But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Back To Top


 Current time is 03:18 am
Page:    1  2  3  4  5  6  Next Page Last Page  

Top



UltraBB 1.172 Copyright © 2007-2016 Data 1 Systems