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'Battery Powered Radio Control' - Components & Size Info.
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 Posted: Fri Dec 2nd, 2011 03:37 pm
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Toeffelholm
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Dan,

If it is not due to the coreless motor, your esc ist simply not working with Spektrum as it has a special electronical requirement, that Spektrum is not serving.

This fact is reported several times on the net, as I already wrote before.
Did you follow this hint?
Just look for the combinition of Spektrum and the name of your receiver.

Spektrum 2,4 Ghz works perfect and absolutely reliable in six locos now I have equipped, with wonderful slow crawling abilities, with four different esc's up to now.

So better look for another esc.

Juergen

Last edited on Mon Dec 5th, 2011 04:08 pm by Toeffelholm



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modelling in 1:22.5 on 32mm and 16.5mm track
Actual project: 7/8" scale on 45 mm track
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 Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2012 03:44 pm
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dan3192
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I've searched, and possibly found, the ideal receiver-electronic speed control for my HO engines.  It's compatible with my Spektrum DX5e transmitter and uses the new 2.4 GHz frequency/DSM2 spread spectrum technology.

It has an 800 ma capacity, which is more than adequate for the motors I'm using.  It is a 5-channel unit and will handle my lighting needs and hopefully the on-board radio controlled track switching feature I've been thinking about.  It measures about 0.5" x 0.5" and will free up a lot of space for additional batteries.

I'll be trying it out and will post some results ASAP.

BTW, the new dry solid polymer electrolyte batteries, which use thin film technology, will be hitting the market soon. They have a higher energy density than LiPo's.

Things are looking up!

Dan

P.S. My thanks to Juergen, Woodie, Herb, Bill and all the others for your help and inspiration. 

  




  

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 Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2012 04:01 pm
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W C Greene
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Dan-very cool news. Who makes these boards? Also, keep us posted on the new batteries, while I am satisfied with what I have, there's lots of room for new ideas. Thanks.

Woodie



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 Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2012 08:40 pm
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Toeffelholm
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I know these boards Woodie, they are from
http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/rx_dt.html

And what is the problem ? They are for planes and thus not for bidirectional control.

But as written on the website:

"Receivers with bidirectional ESC for car, boat and train are coming soon. "

Dan, you should ask these micron guys what "soon" means.

Juergen



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modelling in 1:22.5 on 32mm and 16.5mm track
Actual project: 7/8" scale on 45 mm track
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 Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2012 09:03 pm
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dan3192
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Woodie,

I've been in contact with several people over the last 2-3 months and I'm still exploring ways to apply this rx for train control.  I don't want to generate a lot of excitement over something that I don't even own yet.    

I don't have "deep pockets", but I'm willing to take a chance this item will work for me.  I say for me because I'm wanting to do more than run forwards and backwards on my track.  I'd like to come up with a design that will pull a long string of cars. 

I'm looking at lighting and sound as well.  The receiver may be the heart of the system, but its effectiveness is influenced by the batteries and motors that are used, so the challenge for me has been balancing all this out.   

BTW, if you want more information on the batteries I mentioned, google A123 Systems and Voltaflex.  A123 is in financial trouble, and Voltaflex will be a supplier to battery manufacturers.  Both companies are licensed to use the technology developed at MIT.  

Dan           

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 Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2012 09:52 pm
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W C Greene
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Dan-I will check out the new batteries, but since I don't even have pockets much less deep ones, I will probably keep what I have. If I could figure out how to install solar collectors that look like cab roofs, I wouldn't need batteries any more...that would be a hoot!

I did note in reading the product info for the receiver/esc that there will be reverseable boards for r/c cars, boats, & TRAINS...yes, they mentioned TRAINS! Somebody is listening it seems.



Woodie



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 Posted: Sat Apr 21st, 2012 04:08 am
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dan3192
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Woodie - I guess we can thank the internet for spreading the word.

Regarding the batteries, I'm confident these Lithium Iron Phosphate cells (LiFePO4, or LiFe for short) will be showing up more and more. It's a safer chemistry and the type being worked on by these companies.

But I'm not holding my breathe on these. I think I'll go ahead for now with pre-charged Eneloop NiMH batteries. They're "off the shelf", good quality and take a thousand recharges.  Unlike ordinary rechargeables (Duracell, etc.), they hold their charge much longer.

AAA size Eneloops are rated at 1.2 volts and 800 mah. I'm using four to get 4.8 volts. With a small board, I can fit in eight and get 1,600 mah. If my math is correct, this means up to 8 hours running time since my motor is drawing 150-200 mah under load. If I can squeeze in four AA Eneloops, I'll have about 2,000 mah! Tenergy also makes an AA type with 2,200 mah capacity and 1.25 volts.

Dan      

      

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 Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2012 01:20 pm
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Toeffelholm
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I have emailed to the micron guys about the bidirectional esc myself. A combined board of this size would be really interesting also for me.

Whereby one important criteria is the pwm frequency of the esc. If it is a range around 1 kHz the wine will drive you crazy. Also 3kHz can be still annoying.

The best esc I use, has a frequency of 16 kHz, so no wine at all, but to big for my Gn15 stuff.
The esc from Sol-Expert I use, the kyosho boards Woodie uses and probably also the Team-Losi boards have a frequency around 50Hz. So what you hear is only a slight hum.

@Dan, depending on microns answer, it may be worth to consider the thumbnail big sol-expert esc's (posted somewhere in the beginning of the thread) that are available in 5V and 12V range. Postage from Germany its not cheap but it can be a simple way to push your project ahead.

Light and Sound I like to have for my locos as well. Remote controlled light is rather easy, plugging just an RC-switch or an a modified Servo electronic to a free channel.

Sound is an own field where I didn't find a solution for me up to know. OK, on board sound its not difficult if you take a sound module that is for analog use as well, but in my small Gn15 locos there is no place for that, beside RX, esc, and battery.

No, what I'm dreaming of is layout sound. Loco sound coming from a subwoofer and satellite boxes, traveling along the layout with the position of the track.

This is already realized for DCC control and analog track power, but for RC control I have to develop something on my own I think. Detecting the loco position, processing the signal and using it for fading in and out of the satellite speaker is the main part I'm researching on at the moment.


Juergen

Last edited on Mon Apr 23rd, 2012 01:20 pm by Toeffelholm



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modelling in 1:22.5 on 32mm and 16.5mm track
Actual project: 7/8" scale on 45 mm track
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 Posted: Thu Apr 26th, 2012 04:32 pm
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dan3192
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Woodie, take a look at the Eneloop Handbook link below.  Notice the flat discharge curve.  As mentioned, LiFe batteries are in the near future, but I'd like to run my trains now, so I'll use these and move on to the more important subject of radio control.  BTW, I bought the Eneloops at my local COSTCO store.

http://www.eneloop.info/fileadmin/EDITORS/ENELOOP/PICTURES/OTHER_PICTURES/handbook.pdf 

Juergen, I have to respond to your recent post since audio is my other hobby and I have been trying to add sound to RC just as you are doing.  I've searchd for, but not yet found, the sub-woofer you mentioned.  Sound in HO in nice, but the missing low end of the sound spectrum leaves a lot to be desired.

Years ago, I decided to go with Broadway Limited locomotives with QSI sound.  I'm adding a high bass speaker I picked up at a train show to my 4-6-4 Hudson locomotive.  I think it will help a little.  The below link to an active eBay auction shows the speaker I have.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150584751059?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Anyone dabbling with locomotive sound might find the following link helpful.  There's also a ton of information and articles on the QSI website itself.

http://qsisolutions.com/pdf/loco_acoustics_design.pdf

Getting back to Juergen's project, he is braver than I am in trying to install speaker boxes on a layout sequenced to work with a moving train.  Too much like track wiring for me, but I do wish him success and look forward to hearing about his progress.

Re sound, I'm headed in a few directions.  Tam Valley uses your existing DCC sound system.  NWSL/Stanton is working with Tsunami on a proprietary unit.  Both do not appear compatible with my RC, so I'm looking at analog systems triggered possibly by servos or unused channels on my Tx.

Physically, and just to get things going, I'll use my Hobbytown Multi-Drive set-up where the B unit has the motor and also drives the A unit via a drive shaft between the trucks.  This opens up all the space in the A unit for lighting and speakers.

There are multiple problems in getting those low frequencies.  The first, and foremost, is the speaker itself.  The ideal speaker would be around 1.25" in diameter with very high compliance, or cone travel.  Unfortunately, none exist that I know of, but necessity is the mother of invention, and given the market for smart phones, tablets, laptops and DVD players, I'm optimistic there are manufacturers out there already working on this.  The computer I'm sitting in front of has Philips speakers with 2"x3" bass speakers, so we can't be too far away.            

The second problem is speaker enclosure, or design.  The bass reflex approach is efficient, but the proper port design for the back wave is very tricky.  A folded horn design is very efficient, but takes up too much room.  I think the acoustic suspension design gives the best sound, but it is least efficient.  This is where the back waves are contained and don't reinforce the front waves.  I'll use this design anyway since I will only use the horn or steam whistle a small percentage of the time, and therefore not use excessive battery power. 

I plan on two speakers in a "A" frame configuration, discharging the sound downwards.  It's possible to put the speakers in the powered B unit by running the drive shaft through the speaker enclosure to the other power truck.  We'll see.        

Other considerations include hooking up two speakers in parallel (instead of in series); damping factor, which controls speaker cone over-travel (built into the amplifier - no control over that); speaker phasing (both speaker cones moving in the same direction).     

With all this going on, no wonder I'm still not running trains... 

Dan

"In life, it's not the destination that counts, it's the journey"  -unknown

 

     

 

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 Posted: Thu Apr 26th, 2012 05:58 pm
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W C Greene
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Dan-the batteries should work for you. For me, I prefer the 3.7 volt/cell Li-Po's since they are readily available, can be charged more times than I have left on this planet, and judging from the sizes, the Li-Pos take up less space. Of course, I don't care for sound effects or any of the other extras that model railroaders demand these days. Good info to have however.

Woodie



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