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'Battery Powered Radio Control' - Components & Size Info.
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 Posted: Tue May 22nd, 2012 08:04 pm
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dan3192
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Juergen,

Here is another website covering layout sound systems which may be of interest to you. I have inquired about radio control of on-board sound and am waiting to hear from them.

Dan

http://www.pricom.com/index.shtml

 

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 Posted: Tue May 22nd, 2012 09:04 pm
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dan3192
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Hi Woodie,

Check out the Pricom website mentioned in my 2nd message to Juergen. They apparently supply a lot of items to Fantasonics.  But I think they are DCC oriented. 

You're right about battery drain from on-board sound units, but the way I look at it, unless you are constantly blowing your whistle or sounding your horn, the drain should be minimal.  Also, batteries are getting more and more powerful, so I think it's feasible to have on-board sound.  If you like the constant drone of a diesel, or the chuff of a steam locomotive, this will definitely take battery power.

BTW, I just received the Rx/ESC chip I posted photos of a while back. It is incredibly small, but could just be the game changer many of us are looking for. I've got lots of work to do before I see any results, but now, with all the extra room, I can double up on the number of batteries and greatly extend my running time*.

* 8-Eneloop AAA's in series-parallel = 4.8v, 1,800mah capacity. With a custom frame, 8-Eneloop AA's = 4,000mah!  

  Hmmm, doubling my battery power means I can seriously think about adding sound!  We'll see...

Dan

  

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 Posted: Wed May 23rd, 2012 01:14 pm
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Toeffelholm
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Dan,
thank's for the link. I already know Fantasonics' Dream Player, but not this Railroadies. Perhaps a good address to place the one or other question.

The Dream Player is made for background sounds and it's already on my wish list. Examples for their available sounds can be found here:
http://www.fantasonics.com/store/cd.html

But it is not made for train sound. You can't give the speed/voltage information of the loco to this device. If you only need bell, horn or pipe it may work.

The Rx/esc chip that you bought is that one from Micron? Do they sell such a circuit with bidirectional motor control now? I asked for that, but never got an answer from Micron.

Juergen



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modelling in 1:22.5 on 32mm and 16.5mm track
Actual project: 7/8" scale on 45 mm track
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 Posted: Wed May 23rd, 2012 08:15 pm
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dan3192
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Juergen,

If you go to the 1st & 2nd links, you may find sound systems of interest to you (CADMK2, Misty MK2). I am in contact with them and have inquired about their new radio controlled Trigger Switch (GALMK1) shown in the 3rd link.

1.  http://www.mrrails.com/html/adsmk2.html

2.  http://www.mrrails.com/html/misty.html

3.  http://www.mrrails.com/html/galmk1.html

This is getting close to what I want, i.e., diesel or steam sound synchronized with engine speed with possible options for horn, whistle or bell sounds, all without DCC.  I'm thinking about an electro-mechanical approach, which would include using servos.  This may change as I get better with RC.  I can live without brake squeal, Doppler effects or the dozen or so other sound effects currently available using sound decoders. 

But I have to confess owning Broadway Limited and Atlas DC/DCC QSI sound equipped locomotives.  However, I operate on DC and use the Quantum Engineer controller to get all the sounds available to DCC operators. 

DCC is not in my future planning.  RCC* is.

* Radio Command Control

Dan

  

 

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 Posted: Wed May 23rd, 2012 09:26 pm
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dan3192
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Juergen,

I got the chip from one of Micron's suppliers.  It is a special chip inspired as a result of several months of communicating with the supplier regarding what I wanted for train control and on-board control of auxiliaries such as switches, lighting and sound.

The receiver operates on the 2.4 GHz frequency, is compatible with 22ms DSM2 Air and 16.5ms DSM2 surface modulation, takes 3-6v, has reversing brushed ESC's, and will drive motors, actuators, servos, LEDs and other items. Current capacity is 800mah.  It is incredibly small and a challenge to work with...but I think I can sqeeze in eight AAA batteries.   

With successful rebuilding and operation of my original prototype using this new chip, I will likely accept his invitation to be a reseller of his products here in the US.  This may also involve supplying RC conversion kits to hobbyists, but evaluations of the train market and the overall economic forecast have yet to be done.

I enjoy the challenge and don't mind "sticking my neck out" on this investment, but I would not like to see anyone hurt by their investment as a result of my enthusiasm or insinuations about this product if good results don't happen.  Please bear with me while I sort things out.  If I can get it right, it will be something to celebrate.  Whether or not I succeed, I think the future of train control will be with RC.

Dan      

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 Posted: Fri May 25th, 2012 01:07 pm
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Toeffelholm
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Good news Dan,

now I know what you are talking about.

http://www.deltang.co.uk/


Juergen



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modelling in 1:22.5 on 32mm and 16.5mm track
Actual project: 7/8" scale on 45 mm track
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 Posted: Fri May 25th, 2012 04:49 pm
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dan3192
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So, Juergen, which one will you buy?  I'm working with the Rx43d-2-v5.  Maybe we can "compare notes".

Dan 

 

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 Posted: Mon May 28th, 2012 07:33 am
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Toeffelholm
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Dan,

these boards are for max 6V or 1 lipo cell. To my opinion, most loco drives will need at least two lipo cells to provide a satisfying speed with load at the hook.

So If I don't want to create a new drive for each loco you want to equip with RC, I will need such an ADD1 board to provide up to 10V for the motor and I need a voltage regulator to power the receiver board. Or I only make use of the benefit to have a incredible small receiver and add an external esc. But as David (the producer) told me, there may be board for higher voltage in future.

But despite this fact these receivers a are really sophisticated boards with a big potential using them for model trains and I can only recommend to the others to have a closer look to these boards and to take up some time reading on the web site. David gave me this additional link with some additional explanations
http://www.deltang.co.uk/v5.htm

My next project is a little Gn15 critter that will hopefully go with 1 lipo cell. So for the first I will be able to use one of this boards without additional parts.


Juergen



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modelling in 1:22.5 on 32mm and 16.5mm track
Actual project: 7/8" scale on 45 mm track
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 Posted: Tue May 29th, 2012 02:40 am
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dan3192
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Juergen,

It took many e-mails and several months before deciding to buy the v5 board.  The v5 is actually one of several boards that "evoloved" during this time.  Let me explain my reasons for buying it. 

From the motor side, I mentioned earlier using a Swiss-made motor for my prototype model. These motors (I have around 12 of them) were purchased as surplus from AllElectronics.com for less than $10 each.  While originally intended for locomotive rebuild projects, their high torque and efficiency and 6v rating make them ideal for use with this 3-6v rated board.

On the battery side, I faced the same dilema you are facing and I had to adjust my original thinking. My prototype is an AMD-103 passenger locomotive that needs to pull several cars. I agree that one 3.7v LiPo cell is not a good arrangement, including using them in parallel for more capacity.  I investigated 3.2v LiFePO4 cells, and while superior to LiPo cells, the supply is limited and 2 cells also exceed the 6v board rating.

The next phase of investigation involved the Dimension Engineering AnyVolt Micro, an excellent product for obtaining a desired output voltage. I finally rejected this approach because of insertion loss, the additional cost and the extra space it would need including the wiring.

So I decided for now to use 8 Sanyo Eneloop AAA size NiMH batteries.  This provides 4.8v and 1,800 mah, enough to run approx. 6-8 hrs under load. If I can find room for 2 more cells, I will have 6v at the board and slightly increase speed or run time. 

AA cells have more capacity, but special framing is needed to accomodate larger cells, so this is a future consideration.  Eneloops are not expensive and they are available everywhere.  Tenergy is another supplier. Two more benefits are that they are heavier than LiPo's for better traction, and have a flat discharge curve for consistent performance.  

Maybe you can find space for AAA cells for your Gn15 project and use these new 6v boards.  But it sounds like the 10v boards will be available soon and it may be better to wait to better match what you have and to avoid buying ADD1 boards.               

These new boards raise the bar for RC battery power operation.  You can operate in forward or reverse in 64 steps using the joystick centered for zero speed, or forward or backwards in 128 steps using the full range of the joystick...a nice feature.       

As great as these boards are, given their size, the only downside I see is the great difficulty in working with them.  In any case, this PCB might just be the game changer we've been looking for. 

Dan                          

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 Posted: Tue May 29th, 2012 02:54 pm
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Toeffelholm
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Dan,

my next Gn15 loco will look similar to this model of my friend Otter1/KEG



No, I don't think that there is place for AAA batteries :)

But as I said, I think 1 Lipo cell will be sufficient for the drive used.

My already RC-equipped locos are pleasantly running :thumb:, so no need for changes.

Juergen



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modelling in 1:22.5 on 32mm and 16.5mm track
Actual project: 7/8" scale on 45 mm track
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