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W C Greene
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I think that I will go ahead and start this bit with some information about what I am planning to build. In the 1990's, I built a small around the dining room walls layout which fulfilled my "need" to get back into model railroading after a 15 year foray into sports cars. I have been in this hobby for over 50 years now, so this wasn't my first layout. What I wanted was to model an "extreme" narrow gauge line without spending lots of cash for brass locos, etc. I found that MDC/Roundhouse offered a neat kit for an HOn3 Shay locomotive, which I bought. But having been into HOn3 and HOn30 years before, I wanted something different...bigger. I remembered reading an article by Earl Martin in RMC about his On3 and On20 layout...that was what I wanted..On20. I could build this with the HOn3 Shay all gussied up with O scale parts and crew and Grandt Line offered fine O scale Gilpin Tramway ore cars which worked with HOn3 trucks. I got going on a layout, building on top of book shelves, coffee tables, anything I could find to hold up the sections. After I got the layout built, I wrote an article about it for the July/August 2000 Gazette-My Mogollon Railway. I enjoyed working on the layout and gave it to a good friend when I joined the Texas Outlaws On30 modular group and went "whole hog" into thirty inch gauge. The Mogollon's little On20 Shays and the cars went into a big box which sat in my friend Mudge's garage gathering lots of dust. The On30 plan "evolved" into 1:35n2...a larger scale which uses 16.5MM gauge (HO, On30). The "new" Mogollon Railway is shown in this website so I won't get into what I have now. The layout is outside and when the weather is lousy (we have had some real nasty stuff here in Dallas), the MRy sleeps under plastic sheets until I can operate. That's why I love every season except winter! This year, I decided that I would make something that I could mess with and run a train when I was inside-a "mini layout". I didn't want to use the larger scale radio controlled stuff, I wanted smaller for inside. Then I remembered the dusty box in the garage and what happened next will become the subject of this story.

   Something new to me will be taking photos and writing about how I am building this as it goes along. I hope to not take too long to bring the project to a more or less "finished" place. I have a piece of 2" blue foam-24" by 48" thanks to shayboiler(John) and have decided that I can get away with 10" radius curves since the Shay I have will run around that curve without any problems. I plan to build a small switchback coming off the "mainline" which will simply loop around the 2 by 4. Scenery will be arid New Mexico mesas and mountains with maybe 2 small mines on the switchback. The track will be handlaid using code 55 rail (like the old On20 layout) and control will be by good old dc from a Spectrum power pack. I will try to make all the scenery from styrofoam and all details will be glued as best as I can glue...the layout will sometimes be standing on end in my motor home. The KISS principle will be observed, I just want to have some indoor train fun, not build the G&D in a 8 foot wide space.

   The hardest part of all this is already done-the trains. All I have to do is build something for the trains to run on. Any questions or suggestions will be appreciated as this goes along. And when the weather gets nice...I will be back outside running ore trains to the smelter. I trust that I can build in 2 scales..we shall see.  Woodie

Last edited on Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 10:49 am by W C Greene

W C Greene
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Here is the GT locomotive and a couple of cars for the layout.



The little Shay and cars were built over 10 years ago. The loco has been "rebuilt" and has a fresh coat of paint with more details to add. At the front is a Grandt Gilpin large ore car and the tank car was scratchbuilt. The train sits on HOn3 flex track right now, the layout will have wood ties of the "proper" size. The O scale figure on the loco shows how small this equipment is, the Shay represents maybe a 10 ton job.

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Way to go, Woodie! I'm looking forward to seeing how your layout progresses.

Cheers

Brian

W C Greene
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Moving right along. I haven't done this yet but the bare styrofoam board will get some 1/8" tempered Masonite around the edges BEFORE I get too far along. I want this thing to have a finished look...I am leaning to Masonite, but I just might get some 2" milled pine strips for the edge and paint or stain it a dark color. Still thinking. Today, I got all the code 55 weathered rail available at the hobby shop so I am a few steps closer. The ties will be cut from basswood planks about 1/8" thick-using my balsa stripper to make sticks about 1/8" square and cut them to length. Probably the only stuff I need to buy is the edging stock, I now have the rail and I believe all the other associated junk is either in the garage or somewhere in the motor home. For laying the track I have at least 4 HOn3 (On20) track gauges, an NMRA HOn3 gauge, plenty of really tiny spikes, and almost a gallon of Titebond 2 for glueing stuff together. I am still debating with Peach Head about the actual track plan, but there's only so much you can do on a 2 by 4 in O scale-there won't be any downtowns, no harbor scenes, no Rockie Mountains...just a couple of mines, a water tank, and maybe some other little structure. The scenery will be the thing. And besides, all I want is something to mess with while the big layout is not operating and to be able to take this thing to a show or meeting (if anybody will allow me).

More adventures to follow.                

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W C Greene wrote: The scenery will be the thing. And besides, all I want is something to mess with while the big layout is not operating and to be able to take this thing to a show or meeting (if anybody will allow me).             


I'm pretty sure that the Outlaws will be more than happy to provide a little space for your "mini" at any of their appearances.

Also, once Duane Richardson gets the library time back and starts the narrow guage meetings you can take it up there for show and tell.

I'm looking forward to it all coming together.

W C Greene
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James-Mopman convinced me that I need a short passing siding on this layout (you know how he is about operation) so that's a change. And instead of my old timey stub switches, I will make point switches-much easier for power routing than stubs are. The fun continues.

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Gee Woodie

Are you going to program your pootah to run it??

Herbie:old dude:

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I think we need to buy one of them cheap injection molding machines and cast ore cars out of aluminum...:P

 

Woodie,

Even with the passing siding he'll be bitching about the L&P couplers! Ha ha...

Like I said, I'm looking forward to how this thing progresses...outta be fun...

W C Greene
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James-the old MRy equipment has...hold on...KD #5 couplers! No L&P's on this one! And after thinking things over...I feel that I will have to explain to Mopman why I won't have a passing siding. I am really not going to be into operating this layout, it will be for me just to watch a pokey little train run around and around and maybe once in a while take a couple of cars to the mines.  The KISS is still in effect.

Now, I am cutting ties. I couldn't find any 1/8 basswood in the wood box, but there was lots of nice old 1/8" hard balsa, this is what I will use. Here is a photo showing the ties being cut out.



I am using a MASTER AIRSCREW BALSA STRIPPER to cut the 1/8 square lumber which will be cut into tie lengths. I was gonna make the stock a scale 5" wide (5 by 5 by 5) but an O scale inch is too little to quibble over. So, the ties will be 6" square by 5' long in scale. The balsa stripper is the best thing to come down the pike (for me) since I can cut my own lumber from sheets and not obsess about finding the right thing at the LHS. The stripper is available at any shop that sells model planes and is found on the net if there is no store nearby. It is really expensive, about 7 bucks! I can cut bass, balsa, and most other stock up to 1/4" thick and make boards 3/4" wide. Now, all I have to do is cut the strips to length in a miter box and get ready to stain them & glue the little buggers down. In the time it has taken me to shoot the photo and explain this, I probably could have laid down half the layout.

Next up will be some tie laying and then the rails will be spiked down! The fun just never stops.

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As my oldest daughter used to say when she was a little thing and we would go somewhere for the first time. "THIS IS GOING TO BE FUN!"

Thanks for all of this Woodie.

Also a big thanks for the picture of the stripper, the balsa one. :) Now I have one more thing to add to my "Need to get List".

Bobby

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Lordy, Woodie! Is that your worktable? What happened? Did Peach Head shove all your stuff onto the floor to get to his vittles?

That is the cleanest I've seen your table. It's all good...

W C Greene
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James-I hired some guys to clean the workbench up. Anything that didn't belong was thrown in the trash...now I am searching through the trash can for my scale ruler.

Another change...maybe a change back. After further "thinking", I decided that I will make a short passing siding (voiding the KISS principle)..if for anything than to please Mopman and give me something more to do. Passing siding is back, I will post a photo of the "track plan" for your perusal (25 cent verbage). Also, doing things the "right" way will cause me to buy something else that I haven't used in many years-cork roadbed. Yep, the track will be on top of real cork so that's an expense I hadn't thought about. It will however, make the track nice & smooth. The Mogollon Railway outside has lousy track, just what I want, but this little layout needs smooth track and I want to show others that I do know what I am doing. I had thought about using Woodland Scenics nice styrofoam grade kits, but those cost a bit too much for this project. I will cut the blue foam I have and "replicate" the WS product for the switchback sub roadbed. I will use the Midwest N scale cork...why? Well, the scale 5 foot ties will hang off the edge of the roadbed a little bit and allow me to make places where the roadbed is gone from under the ties here & there. I am really thinking here, I remembered an article about this in an old magazine. Now, I will stop thinking and "dreaming" and get back to work. The little GT Shay is sitting here on the bench saying "run me...run me..."               

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I hope you are remembering this is "O" scale and not 1:35 and pull out the correct scale rule.   :bg:

Well, having a passing siding can't hurt and it'll make Jim happy. I'm sure your creativity will make it look and work great.

As to the cork. Have you considered getting a roll of 1/8' cork from Hobby Lobby and cutting your own? Since you already have the balsa cutter I'm pretty sure it would work for the cork. You could really do some fancy work with undercuts and overhangs that way.

Regardless...your RR. I know it'll look great.

W C Greene
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Thanks James-that's an excellent idea! Then if (and when) I mess something up, I will have more to cut up.    hasta luigi  Woodrow

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Good move on the cork, Woodie. I buy mine in bulk from a local hardware store (not that I need a huge amount, but it is really cheap compared to manufactured roadbed).

Cheers

Brian

W C Greene
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Brian-that sounds like a plan. I don't really need that much for this thing but maybe someone else could use what I have left over. I figure I need about 21 linear feet of roadbed, about 1" wide. Of course, there's the "fudge factor" so who knows. The sheet of cork will be great for that pesky passing siding business, one whole piece instead of a bunch of cutting & fussing. Another idea could be to laminate the cork sheet to the blue foam, lay out the track, and cut away what I don't want. Hmmm...maybe it's easier than I first thought. 

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Woodie, no explanation necessary.  It's your RR.  The only reason I brought up the passing siding was your statement about operating the railroad.  If you don't want to switch the mines, then you don't need the siding.  In fact, if all you want is a "christmas tree" layout that goes round and round I wouldn't even make the turnouts to the mines operable just to save time.  However, I know that you are just like me, I'm going to build what I want and all the suggestions in the world won't change my mind if it's not what I want.  I like the track plan you have for the "mini" so have fun.

Last edited on Fri Feb 26th, 2010 12:24 pm by mopman

W C Greene
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Well, Mopman-you got yer wish.



As you can see, I have added the passing siding. That business about the "Christmas tree" layout with dummy switches made me want to do this. I do not have a fancy CAD program to draw the plan so this funky thing is all you'll get. Remember that this is on a 2 by 4 foot piece of foam and has 10" radius curves. I have no idea what the frog angles will be, just whatever works. Note in the upper right corner is a natural arch over the track. I want something like the arches seen in Arizona and Utah. The scenery will be 360 degrees so the lonely track at the top will be running next to some high cliffs, I may put a squiggle or two in that straight section just for interest. There's more to come...later.

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Cool Woodie!

FYI,
I much prefer your hand drawn stuff over CAD drawings, any day of the week.

W C Greene
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Things are about ready to begin. Today (Sunday), James Sullivan brought over some Midwest HO cork roadbed in large strips. Using the BALSA STRIPPER, I am making 2 piece roadbed strips which are just wide enough when assembled to allow the ties to stick over the edges by a little bit...then I can have roadbed falling away from under the ends of the ties here & there-a scenic thing. The 2 narrow strips are easy to curve around the 10" radius and I will use some wide pieces for under the switches. I may get some work done this week since rain is headed here again. When the skies are nice (like today), the big Mogollon has trains to run and some work to be done before the Outlaws visit in a couple of weeks. I checked out some trim for the edges and now think I will use the tempered masonite strips, it looks nice when painted and I can cut it into 2" widths, none of the molding was right...either too thin or too wide. Like some other threads about building a small layout, I will give a cost breakdown for this one. I really can't include the loco, cars, and power pack in this because I have had them for many years, the roadbed was supplied by Sully, the rail was a trade from Joe B,  the foam was a gift from shayboiler ..goodness..what is this thing gonna cost? Thanks to all my great friends, they will want to run this layout when it's done.

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Last edited on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 08:12 pm by W C Greene

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Here are 2 more photos showing (top) the layout with most ties and some track. Also shown is (bottom) little #4 with 2 ore cars on the "first run". The little layout is sitting on top of the Mogollon Railway's yard. More will happen when the weather again forces me to stay inside and work or I decide to bring the layout outside and mess with it.

acousticco
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This is great Woodie! I think I've mentioned that your Mogollon Railway article in the NG&SLG was (is!) very influential on me. I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.

-Cody

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Cody- now, I am in the process of building some switches (turnouts) and they are about to drive me crazy! I am used to larger stuff and not worrying about power running through the rails. The old Mogollon in that Gazette was also On20 and had handlaid code 55 switches-stubs. I wuz a younger dude back then...now the tiny rail & close clearances take some getting used to.However, it will all work out.  I should be glad that this ain't Z scale and I'm not messing with code 40 rail.

           Woodie

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I bet the construction crews were pulled and had to operate the Mogollon RR today. Nice day to get caught up on some deliveries. :Salute: :glad:

Last edited on Fri Mar 5th, 2010 09:21 pm by bobbyb

W C Greene
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Bobby-I spent much of the day fixing stuff so when you get here things will look OK. The end of the month brings the Outlaws so I hope to have not only the big layout tuned up, but the little one running well also. An outdoor railroad has the same problems as the real thing...just a smaller scale.

            Woodie

W C Greene
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OK, here's an update. You know how change is sometimes "good"?  The track plan for the Gila Tram has changed again. The neat switchback I envisioned would take more space than I have available...now, if I made the grades very abrupt and heavy, it might could happen, but I chose to omit the higher level track and make the lower level a 2 track operation and build a larger mine. This way, I can still have a decent little operation and a better mine structure instead of 2 small mines and too much grade.  Heck, I might have room for some other structures without all that track. I now have all the "main line" laid and the little Shay and some cars have been running around & around for an hour or so...just what I wanted to begin with! Since it is raining today, I won't be taking any photos to show what I have done, but soon the sun will be out for all that.

So far, I finally have my pokey little train running and I am indeed a happy camper.

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Sounds like a productive day.  I like the idea of a simpler track plan for the switchback.  It gives you more room for supporting structures ie company store or houses.

W C Greene
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Jim-more room for...SCENERY...mesa, natural arch, cactus, sagebrush...and a very few structures. Remember that I will have to build any such structures from scratch. I ain't gonna buy a 400 dollar mine kit, etc.       I am looking at a nice mine that was serviced by the Gilpin Tramway, looks like I have the room to do it Also, there was a nice mine above Mogollon that I like also. Lots to choose from. I figure that just a water tank, maybe an oil tank, and some kind of other little building will be it.  More when I decide what to do. 

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Hey Woodie

It sounds terrific! I hope we can see some photos soon.

Cheers

Brian

W C Greene
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More pix coming...BTW, is anybody interested in seeing how I make these tiny code 55 switches? I have one left to lay and just thought about showing it's construction. This kind of stuff has been thoroughly covered in other threads so it may be wasting time trying to take photos while I am working. I am using the H. Kephart system to make the important frog parts, it is a helluva lot easier than bending rails and grinding points and hoping the thing works!

Now, I am thinking about the structures and will relate their construction, although things like this have been covered in great detail. Stuff will happen when I get to it. I am engrossed with watching the train run around, but when the sun is out...the big dog calls my name.  

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Woodie:-

I along with many others would like to see a blow by blow How To for the mini switches.

I know you enjoy taking photos and posting to the forum with your special backdoor method.    So let the show begin.

Don

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I  agree...show the switch building...please.

 

 

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I'd like to see how you make your switches. I have a couple to make in O14 (7mm scale 14mm gauge) and have been thinking what direction to go and I've never heard of the H. Kephart system...

-Cody

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OK, give me a day or so and photos will appear. The H. Kephart frog system is the most exact way to make the difficult frog area that I have found. I have been hand laying track since the early 1960's and have tried many techniques (there really isn't that many) to do the frog and Herb Kephart showed me how to do it "his way". Now, I don't think that Mr. K invented this, but it is slick as a whistle. You shall see.

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Mark me down for a Yes vote as well.

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Lookin' forward to it!

W C Greene
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Well, well...something got done today.



I put some 3/4" lath around the layout. This will be finished as weathered wood and the scenery may undulate along the edge also. With this done now, I won't be messing with the edges after the rest of the layout is done-less chance of screwing stuff up. The lath (pine) was attached with epoxy and Titebond 2 so it will be there forever. A little sanding and she's ready to weather. You may notice the City of Dallas garbage can...it is just the right height for me to work on the layout outside, funny how things like this work out!



Here's one of the switches made the H. Kephart way. This will be explained later. see how it flows pretty well out of the curve into the passing siding. Later on, the ties will be cut to length and a Caboose Hobbies switch stand will be fitted.



This view shows the passing siding and...BY GOSH! By lowering the grade a bit, with Mopman's advice, I will be able to build the switchback that I wanted to begin with-there's enough room for 2 plus cars at the mine and clear the switch! The switchback will be just to the left of the roll of solder and rise up to maybe 3 or 4 inches. Again, things have changed-back to the original plan! The large piece of concrete block on the ties is a weight to hold down the roadbed after I cut sections out to lower it. The sub roadbed is 3/8 balsa since that's what I had handy and it will be covered up anyway with foam scenery.  The weather is really nice here, so I will be working on the Mogollon Railway more but this line will still be in progress.

 

W C Greene
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http://freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=2070&forum_id=6  Here is the link to H. Kephart's piece about handlaid switches. Herb has explained this better than I could so I believe that anyone interested in this easy to do approach needs to read and digest the information.  The switches on the Gila Tram are/will be built this way and I have used this method on the Mogollon Railway when I replaced some bad switches. Sooo, I won't be showing a step by step on how I lay switches...Herbie has done it all before. Now, any questions? 

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"By lowering the grade a bit, with Mopman's advice, I will be able to build the switchback that I wanted to begin with-there's enough room for 2 plus cars at the mine and clear the switch! The switchback will be just to the left of the roll of solder and rise up to maybe 3 or 4 inches."

Hey Woodie

It's amazing what even a small change in elevation will do to a micro/mini layout. On my layout, the change is only about 8 O scale feet (2") and yet I think the effect is huge. The grade is on the continuous run, going up in the front and mostly obscured by view blocks as it goes down in the back.

In a 2' x 4' space you'll be able to be really creative with what you want to have out front and what you want to have behind scenery or buildings. To me, 2' x 4' is big!

By the way, thanks for the link to Herb's hand laid switches. Looks like a great system.

Cheers

Brian

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Brian-you are right, a small grade on a tiny layout can have a great impact. I have the new switchback roadbed worked in & ties laid, next is the last switch and rail. I am still thinking about using the Caboose Hobbies groundthrows (I have used them before) or hooking the switches up to the good old (and cheap) "knob & rod" throws. I used the latter on my old On20 layout and it worked quite well. It boils down to 20 bucks vs maybe 2 bucks...still thinking..

The scenery and structures are on my mind now, this little layout will be a 360 degree view-the large "mesa" with switchbacks will serve as a "view block" between front and back. The structures will have to be fully modeled with interiors since everything is "up front"..but there aren't many planned for this. I will need to prowl through all the dusty old boxes of stuff in the garage to find O scale details, figures, and a couple of vechicles and will probably have to buy some new stuff. Since this layout won't be staying outside, I can go back to "normal" construction techniques and may be able to have some trees here & there to add some green to the scene.

I have slowed up a little on this project, the weather is beautiful and I need to mess with the Mogollon Railway some to get her ready for the Outlaw visit at the end of the month.  So little time, too much junk to glue down.

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Lookin' good Woodie!
and thanks for the switch building link, very good information.
-Cody

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Here's an update: The switches are all installed and working, the throws are described.



I decided to use "knob & rod" switch throws. Much cheaper than the commercial throws and more positive. They are just .039 music wire inside aluminum tubing which is bent to provide tension in the linkage...the points stay put when thrown. Later, small wooden knobs will be epoxied to the wires and all will be "prettied up".



Here's a view of the layout with some very rough "scenery" being built. I found a large piece of old white foam in the garage and since it will be used for scenery, it does the job. Some bits of blue foam are glued to it and all will be cut and "massaged" into what I hope will be typical New Mexico/Arizona scenery.



Here are two of my "tools" for cutting foam. I have an old keyhole saw for rough cuts and then use an old serrated kitchen knife for the "precise" cutting. Also, I will go over this with a wire brush in a Moto-Tool to fine tune the looks. The mine buildings will be built in place later. This rough scenery will be glued to the blue foam base after I get all the trackwork tuned up and then the dirt will start to fly. I will probably go over the foam with some lightweight spackle and work it to look more like rockwork. I would show a wiring diagram since this is a dc layout, but there are only 2 wires run to the back side of the "mainline" and one gap at the frog on the passing siding. The layout works well without any "fancy" electronics.

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That's terrific, Woodie!! Using the "knob & rod" is a great idea - the fewer wires the better. The scenery will work well as a view block and the small size of the layout won't be so apparent.

Looking forward to more!

Cheers

Brian

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Great progress Woodie, but you're going to have to cut at least one more gap at the switchback, and a couple more feed wires to the tail track going to the right aintcha?

Now with batteries, and R/C--------------




Herbie:old dude:

Last edited on Mon Mar 15th, 2010 10:11 pm by Herb Kephart

W C Greene
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That's right Herb, I did have to run ONE wire from the main to the tail of the first switchback and another gap in the switchback. Oh, this is so very complicated.  Yes, yes, I know that I could have done this with r/c, but then I would need a "trailer car" for the stuff and I would have to engineer the loco instead of just sitting and watching the thing run around & around.  One change-I am making all the old KD couplers into link & pin couplers. The KD's are metal ones, I just pulled the trip pins and dropped the knuckles and carved them up with a moto tool and they have become "back dated". I suppose that I will post a photo of this also. It was either do this or replace all the couplers with new long shank KD's so things would make it around the sharp curves. Remember that this ain't ROCKET SURGERY! More to follow...

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HO KD's converted must take something the size of frog whiskers for pins- or are you using small staples between the couplers?



Herbie  :old dude:

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OK-I will take pix of the stinkin' couplers. Another fine mess you've got me into....

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Woodie,
Looking good!!!:2t:I'm going to build all my switches like that, and have hand operated throw mechs. similar to yours.
My 1/35n2 Shay conversion is almost complete,will have to post some photos. I have started building bench work for my Gilpin tram, so far I have an 8 ft. by 12 ft. ELL section built in one corner of my shop building.

What type of mine buildings will you have, like open head frames or enclosed buildings? Enquireing minds want to know!

Keep up the good work,

Ken

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I am liking this a lot Woodrow.

Is that white stuff upholstery foam, or the open cell stuff like they pack electronics in?

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It´s coming to get life!!! I like your track work, wish to learn laying my own track soon, when tools and spikes arrives, off course lol.:)

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Dave-the white foam is that old open cell crumbly foam that everybody warns about. It won't work for layout building but does quite well for scenery when covered with spackle or plaster.  Carving it is a mess, I will wait for a windy day so the particles will get blown away.

Ken-the knob & rod switch controls are old tech, I used them on my old On20 layout and they did the job. It's a manual way of operating the points without having to reach into the scene and the price is just right...85 cents for a 3 foot piece of tubing and 1.29 for 5-3 foot pieces of music wire. I used this on the Mogollon Railway but later changed the switch controls to DPDT/SPDT toggles to get something that looked like a switchstand, and they hold the rails in position when thrown. No, I don't have any wires hooked up to them...


Lucas-it is easier to handlay track than to mess with flex and you can make your own switches to fit any situation. This is the way things were done before the days of RTR locos and plastic freight cars...back when Mudge was a young un'...

Last edited on Tue Mar 16th, 2010 10:06 am by W C Greene

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Here are a couple of more photos for your perusal...



This photo shows the foam all glued down and some newspaper soaked in glue to fill the "voids". I put masking tape over the tracks to keep from getting spackle all over.



I use "lightweight spackle" already mixed up in a plastic can. The stuff I bought is from Home Depot and is the "house brand"...cost about 6 bucks and I got 2 of them for this project. Where it gets messy is when I use my hands to smear and smush the spackle all over the foam and newspaper mache. I use the lightweight stuff because it is truly light and sticks to foam wery well. In fact, this is the same stuff that Woodland Scenics sells as "foam putty" for a good bit more money! Doing this outside makes for no mess indoors and the sun dries the spackle out very quickly. I found that one can covered almost the entire layout, the other can will be for "details" and finishing. While I was at the store, I bought 2 large cans of cheap spray enamel-Nutmeg and Fossil-which will do to paint the layout which will then have other colors washed on followed by some nice sifted dirt and rock and some WS greenery all held down with the good old 50/50 glue & water trick. Now things are starting to come together...

Last edited on Fri Apr 23rd, 2010 10:37 pm by W C Greene

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Looking good Woodie!:2t:

You know that second photo could pass for a Ice Mining scene in Antarctica. :bg:

Bobby

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Bobby thinks that the layout looks like the "ice planet" and I just couldn't let that one by...OK, here it is-the "backside" is painted with the spray bombs and some dirt & greenery have been glued down. I just went down the alley to my secret dirt source and got some coffee cans full. Then I sifted the fine stuff down to become "ballast" and the smaller rocks become....rocks. I was so excited that I didn't give the dirt time to dry, it will turn a lighter shade when it's ready and I will add some more coloration and washes to the "rockwork" on the cliff. You might be able to see the link & pin coupler on the front of #4, made from a KD #5 with the knuckle cut off and some Moto Tool work with a cutoff wheel. Harold has a great piece on making l&p's from knuckle couplers here in freerails, but I haven't found it yet...somebody know where it is? I am making progress...now I have to build some structures, oh boy!

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I'm liking it Woodie. I really like the way your ballasting works. It just looks "Real", like you would expect from a small line more interested in doing the job than the beauty of the line. My kind of a RR!

Bobby

Working on my agitator merit badge.(_!_)

W C Greene
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 Here's a great link to link & pin couplers, it ain't the one I was thinking about from Harold, I guess he must have deleted the thread. Anyway, all who are lovers of the arcane and antique will appreciate this.  Have fun and build something...with l & p couplers!

http://freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=2316&forum_id=4

Here' I think this is closer, but still not Harold's piece...

Last edited on Sat Mar 20th, 2010 06:04 pm by W C Greene

bobbyb
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Hey Woodie, is this the link that you were talking about?

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/link_n_pin/

I remember going to it once trying to learn about link and pin couplers. I think that this is from Harold's site. I know I have read some pretty good tips there.


My bad. I have the right one here now I think. I was looking around over there when I copied the link and wasn't where I thought I was.:doh:

Bobby

Last edited on Sat Mar 20th, 2010 06:07 pm by bobbyb

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Bobby-that is the right one... Really, with all the searching and looking involved, one could make several pair of  l & p's during the time involved. I might suggest taking an old KD #5 (or similar) METAL (KD is the only ones to make them from metal) and sitting down with a Dremel with cutoff wheel and whacking away anything that doesn't look like a l & p coupler. The trip pin hole is already done, just a case of careful fiddling and...there you are! I don't think I will be making a step-by-step on this, anybody who wants to make these couplers already probably has the ability and tools to do it. And I will bet money that if there are 27 guys out here who want to make these things, there will be at least 30 ways of doing so! The only reason that I did these couplers is that the old KD #5's ran great on my old On20 layout with 18" curves, on this little one with 10" curves, they didn't have the swing to work right. I didn't want to spend more money and time to convert 12 year old cars with longer shanks so I just used what I had and made it work. Besides, I am probably not going to do any real operation here, just watch the little train run around & around. If I want to operate with l & p's..I have a whole large layout full  of them. The couplers on the Mogollon are made from rectangular brass tubing, a project in itself.

I could have modified several couplers in the time it has taken me to type this out with my one finger system. Go figure.              Woodie

PS-check my last post, I had the link wrong but fixed it. It's still not the one I was wanting, but was what I could find.

Last edited on Sat Mar 20th, 2010 06:12 pm by W C Greene

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I like the l & p couplers, but can see where they might be a hassle with a layout that you plan to do a lot of operations on. Not being up on all the RR history, from what I have seen (and maybe just because I have been looking at them the most), they seem to have been used on the older rail roads in the logging and mining areas.

Bobby

Looking for some enlightenment.

W C Greene
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Bobby-the feds banned l & p's around the turn of the 20th century except on private roads that didn't interchange with common carriers. Many brakemen died or lost hands and fingers with the old couplers. Some narrow gauge lines used them into the 1960's at least. I remember seeing the West Side Lumber CO cars with l & p's in 1961 when the line closed and there were probably others... 

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W C Greene wrote: Bobby-the feds banned l & p's around the turn of the 20th century except on private roads that didn't interchange with common carriers. Many brakemen died or lost hands and fingers with the old couplers. Some narrow gauge lines used them into the 1960's at least. I remember seeing the West Side Lumber CO cars with l & p's in 1961 when the line closed and there were probably others...
It looks like some places have been using l&p's a bit more recently than that.

Here's a link to footage of some new railmotors, during final acceptance testing, in 2009:

http://www.parrypeoplemovers.com/video-for-broadband-11.htm

I should point out that, although the Stourbridge Town line is joined to the main rail network by points, these points aren't used very often. As a result, this single track line is effectively operated as a small "microsystem", on a "one engine in steam" basis - the second railmotor is only there to provide maintenance cover.

I should also add that the railmotors are operated singly. They're only coupled when one breaks down - to provide some means of returning a broken-down vehicle to the depot, at one end of the line. For this reason, "buckeyes" would be a gross overkill.

The bit that puzzles me is how the working railmotor would be extracted from the depot, after "rescuing" its "partner" - I'm sure they've got a way of doing this - I'm not sure how it's done.

I'm not sure exactly what couplers are used on "main line" trains in the UK - I know there's a mix of types, but I believe things are normally a bit more sophisticated than this!

Sorry about hijacking the thread.

Regards,

Huw.

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Howdy Huw-here in "the colonies", link & pin couplers were banned from use over 100 years ago. True, some privately owned industrial lines used them much later, but I don't believe you will find such antiques here except in a museum situation. If I were modeling a "foreign" railroad, then I might be using hooks and links, screw couplings, or whatever is popular but I am into Southwestern US narrow gauge railroads and my use of l & p couplers in a later time era is just my way of "freelancing" and as I explained, a matter of extra work and economics. I am well aware that other countries use equipment that I am not familiar with. On my larger 35n2 layout, I really couldn't use knuckle couplers since the undulating track and extreme grades would cause knuckles to become un coupled and besides, l & p's look cooler!

                         Woodie

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W C Greene wrote: Howdy Huw-here in "the colonies", link & pin couplers were banned from use over 100 years ago.

... I really couldn't use knuckle couplers since the undulating track and extreme grades would cause knuckles to become un coupled and besides, l & p's look cooler!

I couldn't have put it better myself.

I agree with you completely - the other stuff was just for information. The only reason I was even aware of it was that, a few years ago, Railway Modeller ran a competition to build an earlier version of these railmotors.

I had a go - my first scratchbuild. I didn't get chance to finish it - beside which, I couldn't work out how to make the ends look right - but I learnt a lot in the process.

There are no pictures - partly because I didn't finish - partly because I don't have a digital camera - but I can assure you that you're not missing much!


Returning to the real topic of the thread, your line - and what's running on it - are looking great. I wish I could aspire to similar standards - but don't see this happening any time soon.

All the best,

Huw.

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Huw-this has been a most enjoyable thing to build. However, I have probably taken more time to do this than some of the pieces of my "big" layout. It could be the stopping to take photos and write stuff, or it might be that I had to "adjust" my "scaleness" from 1:35 to 1:48. Whatever, it is a gas to build and now that the scenery is underway, I can relax a little...and watch that pokey lokie and it's tiny train rattle along. Right now, the big layout is being fiddled with for the weekend's Outlaw visit. After that, work on the Gila Tramway will continue.

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W C Greene wrote: Huw-this has been a most enjoyable thing to build. However, I have probably taken more time to do this than some of the pieces of my "big" layout. It could be the stopping to take photos and write stuff, or it might be that I had to "adjust" my "scaleness" from 1:35 to 1:48. Whatever, it is a gas to build and now that the scenery is underway, I can relax a little...and watch that pokey lokie and it's tiny train rattle along. Right now, the big layout is being fiddled with for the weekend's Outlaw visit. After that, work on the Gila Tramway will continue.Perfectly natural, Woodie. You realize that it's not a big deal to spend time on a small space and so the time goes by. All of a sudden a tiny space has your full attention. And guess what? You have blown 2 hours and you sit back, run a train around the circuit and think "WOW".

Loving little layouts

Brian

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Brian-yep, you can spend some time on those little things. My problem is that I sometimes feel that I am spending TOO much time on this little layout when I have loaded ore cars at the mines and no work at the smelter! Oh well, it's all fantasy anyway. I will see this through and will be very happy when I no longer need to work on it. I believe that something managable like this little layout can actually "be finished" unlike a bigger one which always needs something even if it looks "finished" also.

I got almost all the ballast done today and worked on a small rock retaining wall that is the "prototype" for some bigger walls. I will show photos of this pretty soon. One thing I have to say is MAN it is sooooo much easier to just be able to switch on an r/c loco and run VS having to clean track and wheels just to run a train. I knew this going in but had forgotten just how much I hate Brite-Boys. At least this ain't any bigger than it is.

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Woodie, as you know I run analog DC and rarely clean track (maybe 3-4 times a year).  When you are finished putting dirt and glue and anything else that pertains to scenery on the rails, the worst will be over.  Although you might have one problem I don't have and that's cat hair from PH.  Just use that hair dryer and blow the track off and things should be fine.

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True enough JIm. Just remember that you are running nice heavy Athearn locos with flywheels on your layout...this is basically HOn3 with a very light little MDC Shay which is a bit more problematic than a nice big HO diesel. But that's what I have and the continuing process of dirt, water, turf, more dirt, etc...does cause track cleaning to be needed more often. And then there's cat hair..after all, this is his place and I am just here for food & water procurement.  Now, I have some more wet spackle to deal with and the weather sure ain't cooperating! Where's that sun? 

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Woodie -:

Keeping tracks clean can be a pest, big pest at that

I am using a product from CRC  It is CRC 2-26.  This stuff I apply with a cork sanding block cut down to a workable size.  Wet down one side of the block with 2-26 and lightly apply to clean track and leave overnight. Do not wipe off. Now all that's left is running trains.

Running trains helps to even out the coating and it also helps with spreading the 2-26 evenly across the rails and gives the pick wheels a light coating at the same time.

Works for me and it lasts a good while.  You may need to google up suppliers of this product, Electronic stores would be a good starting point

I assume you have tried this or something familiar but thought it would be a good time to refresh your brain cells. Might be a good idea to let peachhead read this and explain it to you


W C Greene
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Thanks Don for that suggestion. I will check this product out. Actually, I just have maybe 12 to 14 feet of track that needs cleaning so it's really not a bother. I am thinking about making a "John Allen dragger car"-an ore car with a small piece of masonite suspended underneath to clean the track while the train runs. I am going to get PH some hair moouse (?) to keep his "do" plastered down. That would really help!

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Well, here's a sort of "update"...the little gila Tramway ran for several hours before & during the Outlaws meeting Saturday without any mishaps (except for the 40 plus winds that took the tiny cars into the air). I am very pleased with it so far and now there's just scenery and structures and details to add...oh my! More photos to follow as soon as I get a little further along.

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Got the chance to see this little layout in person yesterday. Even though as Woodie says he still has the scenery structures etc to do on it, it was really nice to see that little loco ease around the layout, very relaxing to just sit and watch it make the rounds. :2t:

Even though I don't feel that I am experienced enough to give advise about a layout, I did have to point out to Woodie that there was one thing that looked out of place on a "Woodie" layout. :shocked:

The tops of the rails were all nice and shiny...:bg:


Bobby :mex:

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Bobby's correct. The rails were way too shiny but the layout sure is looking good. I took pictures but will let Woodie post his own. I don't wanna give anything away that he might want to keep to himself. Besides, I was a guest and guests shouldn't steal the towels.

Hint:

It already had structures in place...sorta...

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The rails are supposed to be shiny.  Only rails that nothing runs on are rusty.

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Now now Mopman...I can show you photos of narrow gauge lines with rusty rails. You are familiar with nice big Class 1 railroads which have clean shiny railheads...the old West Side Lumber Co ran trains most every day and the rails were pretty rusty on top. Maybe it has to do with speedy trains or the heaviness of the equipment or maybe big Class 1 railroads run on DC or DCC...Hmmmm...

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All,

Last Saturday Woodie had an open house and his Gila Tramway was out and running. I took a few shots. Since he's slightly incapacitated (computer-wise) he said I could post some recent shots.









Interestingly, Woodie can't rest on his laurels and has already made some changes. I was over Monday afternoon and watched it happen.

BTW, the structures in these pictures are only temps and he's working on some more to liven up the layout. I think the trailer is perfect, however, and hope he keeps it.

Last edited on Tue Mar 30th, 2010 11:17 pm by Sullivan

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James-thanks for sending the photos. Viewers may see the junk sitting around and the motor home for a backdrop, but the work continues. I am messing with structures now and things will change again.  Where the 2 ore cars are sitting will be a mine tipple with the hoist and mine building on the top of the mesa. The switchback going to the overhanging rock will have a tipple for a limestone quarry and conveyor which is off the layout (imagine). There will be a small water tank and maybe a coal dock for the loco (which is still an oil burner with a wood burner smokestack). I am still thinking about the blue & white trailer...I really want some trees and bushes and less structures. Who knows??!!

Until I get my computer right (the guru says I need a new computer), I will try to explain the work being done since photos are very difficult (almost impossible) to upload right now.

Alas, the little layout does exactly what I wanted it to do...the train runs nicely around the loop and through the passing siding, the switchback still needs some track cleaning and ballast clearing. If I can just keep from sitting and watching the train roll, maybe I can get this thing "finished". 

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Well Woodie, since it hasn't been mentioned yet I will go ahead and say that I think that the arch rock on the corner there is one of the coolest things.

I LIKE IT!


Bobby :mex:

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Woodie,

not much to say... I'm just looking and learning a lot for my own layout. Great :thumb::thumb::thumb:

Michael

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Excellent, Woodie! And thanks for posting the photos, James. I really like the trailer though I was wondering if you had thought of swapping it out for a model of your motor home.

Cheers

Brian

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Brian-that might be a cool model-a 1:48 motor home on the layout in front of a 1:1 job! I am still thinking about the trailer, I really want those trees! As for motor homes, etc...I am probably going to make a 1:35 model of a Model T "camper" from a Tom Yorke drawing for the Mogollon layout. It looks like something the Joads would own in Grapes of Wrath. If I could find that old O scale T I had, I might do it for the Gila Tramway.

My computer problems are about to be solved with the offer of a nice laptop from Muj's friend Singlefoot. This would do more than I need and take up less than 1/10 the space of the old, dying computer (which I am using now) which will be donated to the trash truck. In a motor home, space is at a premium.

Last edited on Wed Mar 31st, 2010 10:10 pm by W C Greene

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Alright, the computer problem is rectified, a nice new (to me anyway) laptop with enough memory to run the space shuttle.

Continuing on with the thread. Here's a photo of the knobs and electrical plug.

If you look back at the previous photos, the switch throws were just wire coming out of the trim as was the electrical hook up. I bought 4 nice cabinet knobs at the Home Depot and epoxied them to the wire, taking care that the epoxy didn't migrate into the tubing that houses the wire...a bad thing if that happens. From the Shack I bought a male & female Molex type polarized plug(the young clerk looked at me with a blank stare when I asked for this plug) which was soldered onto the wires. The female part was also epoxied into the trim. Now, I just plug the male part in (Dave-I ain't trying to be nasty here) which is wired to the power pack and the train will run! Whatta concept.

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Great stuff Woodie, you definitely have a knack for realistic scenery! Wish mine came out half that good!

Lookin' forward to more

-Cody

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Continuing with the program...I am working on some structures for the layout. I want a nice mine on the upper switchback and a limestone tipple on the lower switchback.

 



This all metal (styrene) tipple is for the gold mine which is still under construction atop the mesa. There will be a headframe/hoist and hoist house and whatever else I can fit in in the area available. I bought 2 O scale Grandt Line 18" gauge mine cars and some of the track for this..the track was almost the same gauge as the railroad so I narrowed the ore cars' gauge to about 15" gauge and made the track from styrene strips for rails and ties. More to be done here, but the tipple is pretty complete.

 



This is the limestone tipple on the lower track. Limestone is used in the smelting process. I will build a conveyor going from the tipple across the railroad track to the limestone quarry (not modeled). There is more detailing to be done to this as well as the conveyor being built.

And since Sully, BobbyB, and Brian are so in love with the blue & white trailer, it will be located in the dry wash on the edge of the layout, ready to be washed away during the next thunderstorm. Next I will build a small water tank similar to those on the Gilpin Tramway and that may be about all the structures I will want or need. Still to be done is more dirt, more weeds, more bushes, some scraggly trees, and a bunch of cactus.

Last edited on Wed Apr 7th, 2010 02:45 pm by W C Greene

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Amazing, Woodie! Your first post was only on Feb 22 and look where you are now. Well done!! I hope others will be inspired to try a "little" layout - lots of gratification in a short period of time. And, they are fun!

Cheers

Brian

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Geez...I wish I had some daylight hours to work on the Chisos. Brian is certainly right - it's come a very long way in so short a time.

As to the trailer...like I said before, it's your RR. I just think it has a certain appeal, kinda hermit-like in its beauty - character, as you say.

 

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I think that one of the reasons that Woodies little layout is progressing so quickly,  is that he seems to have a knack for looking at a bare area and seeing it in his mind as a finished piece. This is a rare gift. I know that, while I may have a general idea what i want a specific area to look like, I'm not at all certain what to do to get the exact effect that I want--in many cases not being able to visualize what that exact effect is!


Well done Boudreaux!


Herbie  :old dude:

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ebtm3 wrote: ...he seems to have a knack for looking at a bare area and seeing it in his mind as a finished piece...


Good point, Herb. It certainly seems that way. One day there's bare foam, the next a complete scene with track, dirt, and structures has manifested itself.

Gotta love it!

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Moving right along, here are some photos of structures to be added to the Gila Tramway.

 



Here is the old raggedy trailer that Sully would like to live in. This used to be on my old On20 Mogollon Railway so it sorta fits right in here. More "detailing" to be done and some junk to surround the thing.

 



This old building was on my old Cedar Tap RR On30 layout, it was an office there, but here it may be the "station". This structure has lights & interior and even a yellow bug light near the front door. I will show this at dusk some day. The old car is an ancient Renwal O scale kit. You can see the gold mine being developed, the tipple is in as is the mine car track and hoist. As with everything else, plenty more to build.

 



#4 is shown hauling a car of gold ore trailed by an old caboose that I built 12 years ago. The loco and cars are familiar with each other, they ran together for many miles in a previous life. The "station" looks like it hanging off the edge, well it is. I need to put piers underneath it and glue it down.

 



A slightly different view of the train. The brakeman has decided to ride on the loco to watch for any rocks or boulders on the tracks.

I still have to "nail down" these structures along with more ground cover, weeds, cactus, and lots of junk. Right now, I am enjoying watching the little Shay do it's job-she's so slow that it takes about 4 minutes for the thing to run around this small layout. Maybe I should give her some more juice!

Still to be built is a small water tank and fueling station, this may be located on the "backside" along the lonely mainline.

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Looking good Woodie.:2t:

Now are those barrels by the trailer full of oil or BEER?:bg:



Bobby

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Bobby-what do YOU think they are?

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Well I think that they are a right nice addition to the layout. Even though they have the word OIL plainly visible I think that is just to throw off the revenuers. :bg:


:Crazy: Bobby :Crazy:

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I think there is a still somewhere off the layout that supplies those oil drums :).  But then again, that's just me and my twisted mind.

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There MUST be a still somewhere! Well, maybe I am drinkin' too much...however, there have been some changes...again. No pix yet, but here's the story. That nice large ore tipple on the Gila Tram looked like "overkill" when I assembled the hoist and hoist house so it was replaced with the smaller wooden tipple that I was going to use for the limestone operation. Now, the scene looks "right" and instead of building a new tipple for the limestone, I will use some old backhoe and shovel models I have to make the scene...the cars are loaded with the buckets and some guys with shovels. A simpler and "more correct" scene. The nice "metal" tipple?? It is now owned by the Chupacabra Mine on the Mogollon Railway. Even though I built this tipple as 1:48 scale, it looks OK in the 1:35 operation and it makes the Chupacabra look far more prosperous-the old tipple there was really a "joke". The old tipple will be used somewhere else on the Mogollon. Now it's back to work, the scenery on both layouts needs to be fiddled with. Who was that "change is good" dude? Maybe sometimes it is.

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I wouldn't consider a couple of beers drinking too much.  Now a case....  Interesting change on the tipple.  I leave you alone for a day and all hell breaks loose on the layout :bg:

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An idle mind don't get work done! Here's the switch-er-oo on the blasted tipples. Hopefully the last word on this also...I present the new limestone tipple:

 



This is the old Chupacabra mine tipple on the Mogollon Railway which was replaced by the nice (and larger) new tipple from the Gila Tramway. The wooden tipple is now for the mine (shown earlier) and this thing just looked like it "belonged" here. You can also see the conveyor running from the right to the tipple. I need to make some supports for the conveyor, it runs across the main line to the edge of the layout (to an unseen limestone quarry).  With all this messing around done, I can get back to finishing the layout. I still need to build the water tank, but.........soon.

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Your right Woodie , it just looks like it belonged there all along.

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Just so nobody will be thinkin' that I have been asleep or lost interest in the Gila Tramway, here are some photos of "progress".

 



Here's a general view of the "front" side with the mine headframe building and conveyor set up across the tracks to the lower switchback. (pretend that the gas meter is just some "scenery")

 



Here's another view of the "front" side with the new water tower in place but not finished. I still have to build the spout and also a small coal platform with buckets for the loco. I see that before I snapped this photo, a crewman on the switchback passed out from too much firewater.

 



The train is shown along the "back" side which will pretty much stay this way but with more greenery, shrubs, Mesquite trees, cactus, and maybe some other thing that I may dream up.

 



#4 and train run under the natural arch bridge after the run along the cliffside. Again, more "scenery" to be added but the little layout could be considered "finished" at this point.

This Saturday, the layout will be taken to a Texas Outlaws On30 group meeting as part of their "don't ask & don't tell" session. As for whether the train runs well without problems...I just let her run for about 3 or 4 hours the other day and outside of arousing the interest of the giant cat, things went just as hoped, no derailments, stopping, or any other casualities.

I will be adding more scenic stuff to this layout and will share what is being done, I ain't really finished yet!

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Love that arch! :glad:Gotta do one of those on a little layout! Do those knobs by the water tower open the ore chute doors?? My kind of railroad! (Altho I think it's a little big.) Am in  Franklin IN for Al Askerberg's Hoosier On30 MiniMeet tomorrow - maybe some photos Sunday when I get home. New avatar is Crazy Daisy, she says meow to Peach Head!. - Russ

Last edited on Fri Apr 23rd, 2010 04:54 pm by russn20

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Hi Russ-I love those arches also, there's just so many you can put on one layout! Peach Head says that those wooden knobs along the edge are the "switch control mechanisms"-the high tech way turnouts are thrown.

                          Woodie

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Very, very cool, Woodie! It's really great to see the small layouts being built by you, Bill and Russ. I hope there are others who will share their progress.

It's almost like working to a fast clock: lay the track, do the wiring, add scenery and buildings and before you know it you have a great little working model railroad. And it doesn't cost a whole lot!

Please keep us posted.

Cheers

Brian



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Russ-old PH has been eyeing Daisy since you put her on as your avatar. I didn't know the old boy had it in him!

                       Woodie

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Dazed is about 10, she adopted me at the Lake County Humane Society about 5 years ago. Posted some photos from Hoosier 2010 last Saturday in my picasa album.

 http://picasaweb.google.com/117072753761430647826/Hoosier2010#

About 50 people. Congrats to Al Askerberg for another fun meet. Brought home 8 partially assembled (body + bolsters) HO Gould hoppers. So far 1 on 18" trucks and 1 on 20" trucks just to see how they will work. (No 20" layout yet, do have some Grandt Gilpin cars and a Plymouth FL that runs pretty good.) Hopper shots soon! Here's a link for all the cat fans!

 http://icanhascheezburger.com/ 

Here's a fresh shot of the Post Office - the stuff all over the ground is junk mail made from junk mail. :glad:




 

Russ


Last edited on Sat May 1st, 2010 08:25 am by russn20

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Wow-Junk made from junk mail! Funky as hell and extremely cool! I love that extremely narrow track, narrower the better...

                         PH sends his best to Daisy

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OK Mr Peabody, here's some photos from the way-back machine. They are of my old Mogollon Railway about 10 to 12 years ago. Why post them here? The railroad was On20 (HOn3 gauge) and the current Gila Tram #4 was part of the scene as were the ore cars and other stuff.



This old B&W photo shows Mogollon Railway #4 (now #4 on the Gila Tram) pulling a train into downtown Mogollon. Here is the old Gila Hotel and a couple of the ladies at "work". The cowboy and mules were from the old 20 Mule Team Borax kit.



#4 brings some supplies to the old Lost Money mine which was close to the switchback.



#3 or #4 is shown down in Tres Diablos Canyon to pick up an ore car from the monorail dump. The retaining walls were made from bamboo bar b q skewers.



This little critter was made from an ancient (1950's) Penn Line Davenport which had the frame & wheels narrowed for the gauge and some O scale parts added. The critter's body was made of lead and she could pull several loaded cars up out of the canyon. She was sold, the only piece of Mogollon equipment that fetched a little dinero. The Mogollon Railway was given to a fellow who assured me that he would set it up and run it. To my knowlege, it is still in his dusty garage, worse for the wear.

Hope you enjoyed these pix, they sure brought back some good memories.

 

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Woodie, cool pics :mex:, great modeling :thumb: and many ideas to steal... ;)  The borax mules fit very well in the 0 scale indeed (I remember we had a discussion about the scale somewhere)

Michael

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I think Mal Ferrell's Arizona Copper articles and your original layout really planted the seed for my stuff. Here's something you need to build -

 

Also 2 shots of Rich Craig's (Alvada Two Footer RR) Plymouth TLG; same as the one in my drawing except for a GMC HydraMatic instead of a 3 speed plus a reversing axle.





We want to see one built and running next week :cool: !! I have the drawing in both .pdf and .dwg formats (autocad) if anyone wants a scale copy.
Russ

 

Last edited on Wed May 5th, 2010 09:27 am by russn20

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Yes Russ-that is a cool critter. The problem is that the last time a diesel/gasoline loco salesman dropped by to Mogollon, he was shot by  some of the patrons of the Bloated Goat #2. I don't think IC will ever be used on this old line-except for the supt's Model T.

On the little Gila Tramway, that little critter in On20 would be SMALL, SMALL, VERY TINY! I love it, but will be content to love it from afar. How about you building it in say..TTn3.5 or maybe Nn3-I triple dog dare you!!!

                             Woodie

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In 1/32 you could do it with track power but for R/C you would really need a trailer. The real problem is the open cockpit and tiny hood. The cadfile is drawn full scale (12") and I copied it down to all the common RR scales and O scale down is pretty much brass scratchbuilding territory. A guy on our On18 group did one using the Bachmann MDT but the frame really doesn't look right.

I have a growing someday box of 1/32 stuff, my old Penn Line Whitcomb is in there along with some Bachmann v-tippers.  Might do a portable layout, if I left it outdoors like yours I would need a working rotary plow for northern Ohio winters! - Russ

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Neat Critter, Russ-

In the larger scales (above 1/48) I think that it would be entirely possible- Search back through the posts for the Lister that Toeffelholm built- it's all open cab!

Herb :old dude:

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Russ-yes, it could be done in 1:35/1:32 with track power...but...my layout is not wired and if I hooked up an antiquated power supply to the rails, it would first make the rails glow and then the power pack would catch fire! You see, I have metal ties here & there, direct shorts everywhere, and open circuits out the kazoo! Why don't you build this critter? It could be 1:32n15 or so and be a really tiny thing!

     Back to steam locos.....             

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Well, the only I/C loco I could imagine on the Mogollon is this:

http://www.interlok.info/LANZSchienenkuli.htm

Surely it's to tiny for an 1:35 r/c model, but you can order a 1:1 replica in Poland :bg:

Michael

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Woodie-

That loco is so neat that it would warrant a "pusher car"  al la John Allen

A bird's nest in the funnel atop the exhaust pipe would set it off.

Highly recommended for the Mollogon!


Herbie :old dude:

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Yep-that is one cool "thing-a-mabob". I can imagine making something like that, it's just a case of finding the "right stuff". It would need some sort of trailer car for the power, maybe the trailer car could be powered and just push the lokie. Using a gearhead motor for extreme slowness, a simple and cheap r/c board from a 5 buck car could be used and a small lithium camera battery could run the thing. It wouldn't have but one speed-S L O W....For the On20 layout, it could be built as a powered trailer car.   We shall see...

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Ole' Bobby B brought me some prickly pear cactus he made and it looks great! I put the pieces on the GT layout. His cactus makes the plastic Plastruct stuff look like s%^&! Thanks Bobby, now, you can make me about 100 more such pieces! (Right!)



I believed (wrongly) that the cactus would be too small for O, much less 1:35 scale, but as this photo shows, it looks great in O scale and would probably work for small cactus in the larger scale. Especially nice is the red flowers/fruit on the paddles. Again, thanks Bobby, I love it!

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Now, some cars are to be built. The first one completed is this cool little boxcar, built from a FCALV laser kit sent to me by Daniel Caso.



I have several more cars to build including a couple of fine little coaches. I used MDC HOn3 trucks on this one since that's what I found in the "truck box". Many thanks to Daniel for these kits, they will all be running on the GT soon. I posted another photo of this car on Titus' thread so everybody will get a "double dose" of it. More coming.

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Wow Woodie. That Daniel made some really fine kits it looks like to me.

Somehow I missed the post where you had actually used the cacti that I dropped off. Heck if you really could use some more just let me know.

My flatcar build has been put on hold for a little while (got a bunch of honey-do's getting in the way) but making those cacti is quick and easy work.

So if you want some just let me know and when "She that must be obeyed" :Salute: allows me to take a little break I can punch some out and stick them together. Heck from one single sheet of plastic we could make enough to make that little layout look like it was a cacti farm. :)


Bobby :mex:

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Woodie, I like the way you build Daniel's boxcar - a lot funkier as mine. What did you use as corrugated sheet  for the roof?

Michael

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Bobby-I will take all the cactus you may want to make! I bet we can arrive at some barter deal for the stuff. Let me know...

Michael-instead of painting the little car, I stained it with some very diluted Tamiya NATO brown, that's what makes it look funky. The corrugated roof was made from thin aluminum (cookie sheet material) that was embossed with the corrugations. I use a piece of Evergreen or Plastruct corrugated plastic as a "master" and simply emboss the corrugations in the metal with a sharp stick. Takes some time but works very well. I have several more Caso cars to build, they will all be funky since that's what I like. The passenger cars will be a bit nicer. I will use HOn3 passenger car trucks for them. I messed around with my 32 Caso coach and decided to use passenger car trucks...after all that, I was finished with the car. Looks better anyway.

                  Woodie

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No updates on the GT right now, the Texas sun is hot and the big old Mogollon Railway becons. One bit of news however, I am using a 50 year old Scintilla "Plena-Speed" power pack to run the layout. This old girl has lots of power, no silly circuit breaker BS, and a lever to control the speed. Just a wonderful thing. I still have more to do on the little layout, scenery, buildings being finished, new cars being built. But while the sun is out and there is no rain (read drought), I am being "forced" to operate vs watch trains. Later...

                             Woodie

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Great Layout! I'd like to see if you have a sketch or if you could tell me some dimensions of the wooden limestone tipple on the lower track. I would like to build one. Sizes of the timbers would be great, too.

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Gee, I hardly use a scale rule and don't ever work from plans, etc. I believe the main timbers are 9-10" in O scale. (3/16" sq). The tipple is probably 12"x 2" (1/4" by 1/32-close) and the length is long enough to accomodate 2 Grandt On2 Gilpin small or large ore cars. So, maybe it's 30 feet long. If you can, make a mock up from cardstock to see how it looks to you before cutting wood and glueing. I hope this is of help. Right now, the GT layout is stored in the overhead of my motor home, the big Mogollon Railway layout is taking my time. But when winter and rainy days come again (it's 105 degrees here now) I will get it down and run a train while staying warm.If you look at how I build things, you will see that I use a balsa stripper tool, I just buy flat sheet stock and cut my own dimensional lumber. An inexact "science" but it works for me.

                     Woodie

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Well, well...after a couple of years or so, an update. The little Gila Tram has been shown at several local train shows over the years and has put many real miles on the train, running most every day for some hours as I fiddle around in the shop. The weather has been up & down and I have not really done much on my Mogollon Railway so the GT is my "go to" for train watching. Now, I am "thinking" about building an extention of sorts for the Tram which would go across and above my computer/paperwork desk and on to the corner of the workshop...about another 8 feet of layout. This would connect with the existing layout with a couple of switches (turnouts) that would allow the train to venture from the tiny loop it has known for years into the "beyond" and back. A sort of "folded dogbone" affair so the train would run out, around and back without some mui complicatdo reverse loop BS and the associated wiring and mechanical switch throwing mess. I might even have room for a bit of "switching" along the way. I'll post a track plan here very soon. The original Tram layout will be intact and moveable so it can be taken to shows, etc.

NEWS AT 10!
Woodie

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BOH JAH ... Mr.20 !!!

Lov' that lil' layout !!!

... Extension ??? ...

Can't be bad !

Anything ... Gila (monster) Tram related has to be GOOD ...

Wish I could make it to a Tex. train T for a taco !!!

Keep it ON ... Mr. mini-scale ! ( wink )

LOL

Si.

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Well then...you might be interested in what's taking place on the kitbash/scratchbuild forum-A tribute to Bill Schopp. More fun than shooting monkeys (or is that fish?) in a barrel.

Woodie

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Hey Woodie,

Did you make the endbeams on your shays? And how wide are they in scale feet? It's more of a curiosity question to aid in my own shay construction. Also, I'm considering blackening the line shafts on the trucks. Would you say yay or nay?

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AJ-I read the NEOLUBE post on the On20 site and yes, it will work. I would chemically blacken the parts first and then put the NEOLUBE on them. Or just blacken the parts and then lube with whatever you want. The Shay endbeams are 6.5 O scale feet wide, made from basswood.

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Hi Woody,

I have only just discovered your little gem. I think it is superb. I can't think how I have missed it up to now.

Put it down as another senior moment.

Peter M

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Mr. Greene, any progress?

Buck

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Howdy Buck, progress of a sort. Been working on an On20 0-4-4 for the GT and have the foam cut for the expansion. It will happen soon.

Woodie

Gunslinger_Fur
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Can we be expecting any photos soon? :moose:

W C Greene
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Yep, AJ...there will be more pix soon.

Woodie

Buck
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Well as you can probably tell we're pretty excited about this little railroad. Truth be told my project may have some similar themes....(read as shamelessly steal)

W C Greene
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Okey Dokey...You lucky dude, living out there where it all happens!

Woodie

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Well not so lucky anymore that outfit changed management and got rid of the floating wood. Apparently that was me so I'm actually back home up in the frigid wastes of SW Montana.

But I enjoyed my time down there and it's kind of my second home.

But having spent a couple years down there, your railroads and the stories about them just capture that area well.

W C Greene
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Golly Buck, sorry you had to move...but you are in a cool place now! If they want you to move to Dallas...RUN away!

EXPANSION: here's a photo of the new sections. Just 2" blue foam now but it will get better.




The length is about 7.5 feet and 2 feet wide at the attachment point & end loop. The cut out is located above my computer & bill paying "office" so the GT will run overhead as I slave away on BS. Where the sections meet, you may note a "keyed" place, that's so the layout will "lock" in place, there will be at least 2 tracks crossing the joint, maybe more if I get ambitious. The sections will attach to the GT layout on the left. I will need to build a couple of switches (turnouts to the edumacated) to go from the original loop to the new part. Nope, no stinkin' reverse loop crap here, just out & back on a sort of "folded dogbone" so the tiny trains can run and run and .....

More to follow.

W C Greene
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OK, here's something to show the "track plan"...which might change, but hopefully not too much.




The existing Gila Tram layout is on the left. 2 new switches will be built (red lines). The 2 by 4 GT layout will still be able to disconnect from the "layout" so as to be taken to shows, etc. The new track (black lines) will probably be as intended. There will be a longer passing siding with mine to work. Then the line will run around another loop, a switch will go to the shop/enginehouse, a small yard, and another mine(?)...and back to the GT layout. Note that I want to make that return track run inside a mountain as a "view block" of sorts. The desk sits below the cutout, a window behind the new section. The entire layout will be 52" from the floor, that is established by the height of the GT as it is now, supported on 20" metal shelf brackets. The same arrangement will be used for the new sections.

Next is to get the Midwest HO cork roadbed and begin cutting ties again. I just bought about 60' of code 55 rail and several packs of Model Engineering micro spikes so I am ready...ready to watch the little train run for a while longer.
Please excuse the lack of hotsy CAD drawings for this stuff, I used to have a CAD but traded it in for an old MGB. Simple is as simple does......

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The drawing is fine Woodie. The trackplan is simple but with lots of operating possibilities.

I make CAD drawings for a living so it's easy for me to use CAD. But for modeling purposes I make a lot of drawings by hand. Sometimes CAD is easier to check things like minimum radius of the tracks.

Alwin

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Woodrow  driving a Caddy--

Now there is a photo that I'd like to see!

Herbie

W C Greene
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Yep, a 66' lead sled, I blew the motor out! Minimum/maximum radius is 10", same as the the existing layout. Makes it a bit easier to build...I imagine. Oh yes, I was once called a CAD, is that applicable?

Buck
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Boy a caddie would go real well with the '49 Ford and the motorsickle!

One question though, where does the ore go? Is that gonna be on the next extension?

W C Greene
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Buck, I haven't got a clue! Unlike the Mogollon Railway which is built for operation, the little Gila Tram is just for me to watch a train run around & around...Maybe I will add a section of "wide gauge" somewhere to interchange with. Hmmmm...

Woodie

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After much work and worry, here's GT #2 all weathered up and hauling some tourists around. Now the little pike has 2 locos and if I get "ambitious" then maybe another Shay. But how many locos can such a small operation need?




#2 runs very nicely now and has been running several hours a day to get used to the line. All is well along the Gila Rim.

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Hey Woodie - very well done! I bet the folks on the Gila Tram are really happy with the new loco!

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Hi Woodie

Nice track-plan.
Looks like BIG FUN extension for the Gila !

The lil' lokie #2 is AWESOME DUDE !

Those tourists get southern style & sights to see.
( I hope they find some old dino bones in the mines )

Great stuff Mr. Greene !

Cheers

Si.

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As with many things, I have a dislike for the extreme weathering I applied to #2...sooooo, she will be "un weathered". Since the weathering is Bragdon powder applied with a bit of water, I will just use a little bit of soapy water and a stiff brush to remove it. That will probably leave a small bit of more nicer weathering. After all, #2 is the "pride of the line".
Photos later............

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:moose::moose::moose::moose:

W C Greene
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An update on the Gila Tramway. Last year, I learned that a dear friend of mine was dying and couldn't complete or enjoy his nice HOn30 layout so I offered him my little GT layout just so he could watch a train run without any hassle. He enjoyed the layout and took great care of it. His widow and kids brought the layout home to me, I had thought (again) about selling it but now want to keep it. I don't have room for it, really, but will make room for it. And in the midst of this...I am thinking about building ANOTHER LITTLE LAYOUT! This time in 1:24 scale running on 16.5MM gauge...Gn15 or whatever it is called. I know that I am crazy but what can I do?
So, the Gila Tram lives on, the old Mogollon Railway is gone, the new Silver City NG is ongoing...and I WANT MORE!

As Willie Nelson sang-"I'm crazy, crazy for wanting another layout!"

Woodie (I think)

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You are not crazy, just got infected with Top Level Modeler's Virus. Enjoy!.
Jose.

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I'm with Hose. You can't have TOO much in this hobby, just too little time!

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Howdy Woodie :cb:


Not sure I 'get it' on the 1:24 Gn15 thing ??

It aint THAT different to what you're doing already.

OK a tad smaller prototypes.

But size wise, pretty similar really.


Now 7/8ths or 1:12 !


That would be some BAD ASS virus, if you caught that bug !! ;)


If you're tryin' to do something big, make sure you DO IT BIG ! :shocked:


:moose:


Si.

Or SM32 even ?
Us Brits. like a bit of that.
Not sure if that's at all popular in the U.S. though.
3/4" or 1:16 basically.
I think there are quite a few military items made in this size ... ??
Mmm...

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Willie didn't sing that. LOL, maybe Boxcar Willie...

Good for you for keeping the Tram, and for the Gn15 layout. Can't wait.

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Ken, but Willie wrote "Crazy", made famous by Patsy Cline. And yes, I'm still crazy.

The Gn15 layout will have at least one Model T, that alone may dictate how large the thing will be. I love my old cars and have way too many to use on my current layout, besides there were no 49' Merc's in 1920 New Mexico!
Back to some kind of future.

Woodie

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http://freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=5880&forum_id=6&highlight=fed+4-4-0 Here is an "update" of sorts. I have been running the crap out of this little 0-4-4t while the Shay is being rebuilt for the umteenth time. Just watching it run on the Gila Tram made me remember building her.

Michael M
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Woodie,

Any close up photos of that water car of yours?  I'm slowing (very slowly) building a small one for my line, and would like to get an idea of how you put yours together.  Thanks.

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Michael, the orange (?) water car was built about 20 years ago. I believe that I built it from cookie pan aluminum with rivets punched in and a wooden frame. I will take a photo in a little bit & post it. I rarely take photos of "in progress" work, I just get going and don't spend the time with photos.

Woodie

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OK, here are both sides of Mogollon Railway (the original On20 version) water car #14.
This car and the others, like the ore car, ride on PSC HOn3 trucks which work well in On20 to replicate Gilpin Tramway trucks. There are patches and dents and bent handrails, some caused by being thrown in a box for 10 years or so. And I see that the brakewheel is missing also, how does that car keep from rolling down the grade?
Hope this helps.

W C Greene
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And here is a 1:35n2 water car, a somewhat "faithful" copy of Gilpin Tram's water car. This one was made from the aluminum cookie pan material but all the rivets were done with the "Kephart-O-Matic" rivet maker...not to be confused with rivet counters (get a rope!).

W C Greene
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Since I will be moving soon and the SC narrow gauge will be dismantled to rise again (the Phoenix rises again many times), I have enjoyed running the little Gila Tram while I work on other projects. Here are a couple of shots in a kind of "old timey" color.




The top photo shows the GT's motive power at the Gila, AZ station. Lower shot is #4 about to leave after taking on coal. #4's cab has been rebuilt and is now a "plantation" style job, similar to 0-4-4t's cab.
I have also thought about enlarging the tram after the move, who knows what will happen next?

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I have also thought about enlarging the tram after the move

He He   saw that one coming...
Jose.

Michael M
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Woodie,

Moving is such a pain.  You have my sympathies.  I'm on my 4th home and have been here just over 12 years...the longest time I have ever spent in one place!  If you like me you probably have boxes of goodies stored in the garage.  I'll bet you'll find stuff that you've completely forgotten about (I have).

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  I'll bet you'll find stuff that you've completely forgotten about (I have).

Ditto...
Jose.


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