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End Loops - Stud power supply
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 Posted: Sat Mar 6th, 2010 05:03 pm
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wahiba
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I did a quick search and could not see if this had been covered.

:cool:Anyhow, looking at the size of my minimum gauge model on 16.5mm track I reckoned if G gauge at 1:22.5 is 'Garden' gauge then 1:24 on 16.5mm could go in the garden. In my case a semi temporary structure so I was thinking in terms of a single track with loops at either end. I had worked out that the points could easily be set to be operated by the train so that the whole system could run continuously.

:brill:Then it struck. The polarity of the line between the loops has to change from what it was when the loco went in to when it comes out. Ideas for auto reversing switches etc. went through head.

:2t:But, an obvious solution came up, third rail! If the running rails were always the same pole and the third rail was the other pole then not problem for a loop.

But how:

1 overhead supply would work - but not if it is a steam outline.
2 Thied rail, centre or side involves virtually making track from scratch
3 Stud system!

Having found a small book on the subject it seems to tick all the boxes. Even great outdoors with a degree of self cleaning of the studs. Recommended for outdoor lines as steam and electricity can easily be mixed.

L:Just wondered if anyone else has tried the stud system. Peco make a stud strip, which means only points need pins.



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 Posted: Sat Mar 6th, 2010 11:55 pm
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W C Greene
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How about making the layout unwired and install batteries in the locos. Then they would run till they quit and no wiring needed. My layout is outdoors, 1:35 scale on 16.5MM gauge-35n2 but I use radio control because the railroad is built for operation and switching. I have point to point with turntables at each end. I also have a hidden section with a reverse loop, the train simply goes whatever route the points were left from the last train.       Woodie



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 Posted: Sun Mar 7th, 2010 12:55 am
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Paladin
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G'day

Digitax make a auto reversing unit that works a treat. This is DCC and looks after its self. Simple to wire.

BUT

If I were to go outdoors I would think very seriously about Radio Control with Batteries on board.

Don



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 Posted: Sun Mar 7th, 2010 09:05 am
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wahiba
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Hi

Yes, I could use batteries. Would not be to difficult to place them in the trucks, will think about that one. At least with 'big' bodies on small bogies there will be plenty of room.

This does bring up another question. If I dispense with the outside electricity supply any ideas on operating the points by the loco? I think fo H0 size it might be possible to rig up a mechanical arrangement.

I thought of DCC and then realised it has the same problem as two rail on revesed loops. While the polarity is not important the two opposite lines cannot be electrically connected, something that actually happens in the real world and with model systems using a third rail, studs or overhead supply.

As for studding. Peco do a strip to fit down the centre. Aimed at Marklin kit but does not look obtrusive.

While the railway will run in the garden, practicalities mean it will be a 'mobile' system, being store in the garage when ot in play.

All the best

David








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 Posted: Sun Mar 7th, 2010 03:21 pm
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Basher
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Hi: Just what maybe a dumb question. If the studs are below the rail tops, how does the pickup shoe go over turnout frogs and rails. I don't see how this could work unless the studs where placed above rail height. Opinions anyone ???? Am I missing something here ?

Basher

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 Posted: Sun Mar 7th, 2010 07:49 pm
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Herb Kephart
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Basher-


The heights of the studs above the tie are gradually increased wherever the pick up sled has to go over another rail, as at a switch or crossing, and then they gradually lower back to just above tie height. If the studs are staggered slightly along the center line of the track they are a lot less noticeable, than when they are in a dead straight row.

The studs, and a wire connecting them are MUCH easier to install before the ties and rail are down, but make leveling the tops of the ties with a sanding block before spiking the rail a matter of only sanding the outer ends of the ties possible--which seems to accentuate the fact visually, that the studs are there.

Ya takes yer choice.

As for points actuation, leave them a free as possible, but sprung to the desired entry side with a piece.010-.012" music (or better yet- since this will be outside- phosphor-bronze) wire. Most of my switches are done this way, with a hand throw working against the spring for the non-preferred route. If the switch is approached from the frog end, so long as the switch points are in the position for the preferred route, nothing need be done, the wheelsets will move the points over momentarily.


Herb  (who ain't a stud anymore)   :old dude:

Last edited on Sun Mar 7th, 2010 08:04 pm by Herb Kephart



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 Posted: Sun Mar 7th, 2010 08:17 pm
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W C Greene
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Herbie-MARKLIN has figured out the turnout/stud problem long ago. I ain't gonna speculate as to how it's done, but it works...quite well, in fact. Again, I am still wondering why anyone would build something that can be run outside and use dc, dcc, or as Marklin has-ac power. Batteries or batteries and r/c is the best idea...I'm not saying this because that's what I use, but from experience. Why do most all garden railroaders in the US use r/c, and why do most garden railroaders in the UK just stick a bettery in the loco and watch it run around and around. They run this way because it works and there is no hassle outside of the occasional battery change or recharge. Live steamers love to use r/c to run their locos also...the servos are connected to the throttle & reverse levers. Anybody can do as they please, but carrying a power supply, extention cord, track cleaners, and all the other stuff to run a little train outside seems like it would get very old very fast. Once again, only my opinion.

              Woodie



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 Posted: Thu Mar 18th, 2010 06:03 pm
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pilotfriend
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It is not every day that I agree with a Texan, ;) but I do 100% here. Stud contact disappeared into the mists of time many years ago. Battery power rc control is the logical route.

best

John

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 Posted: Thu Mar 18th, 2010 06:56 pm
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W C Greene
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John-I am flabbergasted!  Thanks for the backup.  Woodie



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 Posted: Wed Apr 14th, 2010 06:16 pm
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wahiba
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W C Greene wrote:  I am still wondering why anyone would build something that can be run outside and use dc, dcc, or as Marklin has-ac power. Batteries or batteries and r/c is the best idea...In my case it is an outside railway project using 16.5mm track, but 1/24 locos. Intended as a single line with loops all complexities disappear when a third rail is used. the stud contact system is promoted for outside becasue of its self cleaning properties.

PECO make a copper stud strip to fit under their track, so someone uses it. Also it is fairly straight forward as a DIY exercise. Wire wrapped over sleepers for main lenghts with solid brass pins for crossings and switched.

Add a desire to try something different and there you have it.



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http://www.tramcard.com
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