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Treatise On Overhead Construction
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 Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2013 01:33 am
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Herb Kephart
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First, thanks for the complements, guys!!

Fred- The car was built to run on 2 1/2 gauge track, because that was the gauge that the layout we visited was. In 1/24 scale, this equates to five foot gauge--which actually was, and still is, the defacto standard for Pennsylvania trolleys. Actually 5'2" gauge, many towns didn't want the trolleys coming down their streets, as they thought that the proposed trolley lines were a ruse by the railroads to have freight trains on major streets in their fair communities. A compromise was created by not building the trolleys to railroad standard gauge.

The model picks up running current from overhead wire, as any self respecting trolley model should--it runs on 12V, DC. The pole didn't happen to be on the car when I was taking the photos.

Herb




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 Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2013 08:08 am
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OhioMike
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Herb, could you provide a better picture of how you set up your frogs, between spans, tilt, etc., thanks
Mike

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 Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2013 02:11 pm
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Herb Kephart
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Mike--
Frogs are rapidly (?) disappearing on the Octoraro and Eastern because of conversion to pantographs and catenary. This program, in turn is on hold, because of a bunch of ^##~>< tree huggers, who are conducting a study as to what is causing their demise, whether they can be relocated to a suitable area, and if their diminishment is going to pose any sociological or economic impact. Geez-- it's not like I'm running over the little buggers with a steam roller--it's a DIESEL road roller.

Tonight, when I have more time, I will read over what I wrote initially, and see if I can't explain more fully. The only frogs on the layout now are in positions that probably wont show what you are asking in a photo--but let me see--

Herb



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 Posted: Fri Mar 1st, 2013 02:08 am
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Herb Kephart
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Mike-

As I suspected the photos posted in post #34 of this topic have the best views that I can provide at this time. One thing that I can add to the text, is to try to have a span wire at the frog location, and solder the frog to it once that the frog location is determined to be correct. This helps to keep the frog put when the wire expands and contracts from temperature, or the benchwork expands and contracts from the amount of humidity in the air--painting the benchwork, top and bottom with any left over or cheap oil base paint helps with the second.

Frog location is so dependent on any number of variables, some not very evident, that even  the method that I described will need tweeking (for reasons described in the part about car poles). Most model systems have a number of discrete car types, not large fleets of the same car types that the prototype systems are equipped with. At best when you first hang a frog MOST of your cars will go through fine--but getting the "mavericks" to behave can drive you up a wall. Even with what I wrote here, a considerable amount of trial and error is involved. Be prepared to tear out and do over some sections. Analyze what is occurring, and if possible, why, then redo the problem area to try to more correctly locate the frog. Sometimes, very little movement of the frog will correct a problem. One thing that is a big help, is to have a  small mirror that you can lay on a car roof so that you can watch what happens when you push the car through the frog area.

Herb



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 Posted: Fri Mar 1st, 2013 05:34 am
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OhioMike
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Thanks Herb, im sure your explanation and the photos included thus far will more than suffice, the tilt thing got me, but i think i have an idea in mind of what you described earlier in the thread. Time to pick up some wire and solder! Already got the frogs. Thanks again
Mike

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 Posted: Fri Mar 1st, 2013 02:53 pm
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Herb Kephart
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Sorry Mike-- I for got to explain the tilt

Sometimes, usually when all else fails, tilting the frog (<10*) will help "influence" the pole to take the desired route. This works best where there is a span wire that the frog is soldered to--to maintain the amount of tilt--otherwise wire tension will try to get the frog back to horizontal.

Also, tilting will also allow a pole that is backing up to always take the desired route-- usually a siding. Trying to balance this against the frog operation going in the forward mode is SOMETIMES IMPOSSIBLE. Also, backing through a frog requires the frog to be very stable in space--again, reason for a span wire. Back polling is very problematic. The wire must be perfectly smooth-no excess solder at the ears, etc, it also MUST be as low as possible, and tight.

Any more questions, or problems, I will do my best to try to help.

Herb



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 Posted: Fri Mar 1st, 2013 08:39 pm
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Kitbash0n30
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Tilting the frog, sounds like something college kids in the 1300s did.
Now, the slightly different, tilting the grog, a lot of folks did that one.



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 Posted: Sun Mar 17th, 2013 01:06 am
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Tramcar Trev
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Wish I had found this a while ago, my tramway is to have working overhead with trolley poles. Its been quite a job hand making the ears, ornate poles and other fittings but its coming together now....
I'm actually enjoying the challenge though; http://trevs-tramway.blogspot.com.au/



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 Posted: Sun Mar 17th, 2013 02:53 am
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Herb Kephart
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What a super bunch of pix on your website. I'm quite sure that seeing some of those paint jobs up close would cure (but only temporarily!) my desire for certain "adult beverages"!!

And the first photo of a switchable wire frog that I have seen. Knew that they existed, but----

Going to spend some time looking more thoroughly there tomorrow.

Herb



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 Posted: Sun Mar 17th, 2013 04:34 am
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Tramcar Trev
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Yes switchable overhead frogs are all the Go in Hong Kong. When I was last there in 1970 They didn't use them so they are a relativley recient install.. and no I'm not going to make any....
It's an incredibly rare event in HK for a trolley pole to come off the wire....



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There once was a man who said Damn!!
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A creature that moves
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I'm not a Bus, I'm a tram
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