Freerails > Model Railroad Forums > Photography & Movies > WWI Narrow Gauge In France - Original Film On Video |
Freerails > Model Railroad Forums > Photography & Movies > WWI Narrow Gauge In France - Original Film On Video |
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mwiz64 Registered 
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This is really an interesting video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3s01i3aa7w&feature=related Mike |
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mwiz64 Registered
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And here is another of that era. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvx5zxtIXLE&feature=endscreen |
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mwiz64 Registered
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Do many people model military railroads? I'm really fascinated by the first video I posted. That could be a really cool 1:35n2 scale/gauge railroad subject. I could see some Bachmann Davenports modified to look just like some of those locos. I could use 1:35 scale military figures and trucks and stuff right out of the box... Those steam engines in the video might be a little harder to come up with but building one or more of those could happen down the road when I've honed my skills a little more. I'm feeling pretty inspired right now. It certainly would be different. At least to my way of thinking. I've never seen a military railroad layout before. Mike |
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mwiz64 Registered
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I've watched that first video 4 or 5 times now. I could model the construction of the railroad itself just like in the video. Do you think those steam engines are European engines and not American? I like that there is plenty of other machinery to model, cranes, a boat dock. There is standard gauge, which might be tough to do in 1:35 scale... I'm doin' it! I don't really know if the little Brookville project I've already got under way will make sense there but who cares... Mike Last edited on Sat Nov 10th, 2012 04:24 pm by mwiz64 |
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mwiz64 Registered
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And another link. http://www.army.mil/article/47644/forgotten-tiny-trains-carried-wwi-vets-to-victory/ I wish I could find a better photo of those critters. Mike |
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mwiz64 Registered
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Holly Smokes! The modeling opportunities are endless with this subject. Critters, Garrats... Heck there is even a bunch of guys sitting on a couple of flat cars being pulled by a dog team. I'm pumped! No. I'm not modeling the dog team. http://www.histomil.com/viewtopic.php?t=5865 Mike Last edited on Sat Nov 10th, 2012 05:06 pm by mwiz64 |
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mwiz64 Registered
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Do I seem excited about this modeling subject? I just bought myself a Christmas present. It's a book called Narrow Gauge To No Man's Land. It's about the 60cm (1.968') gauge railroads in France during WW1. BTW, 0.03' is about 1/4". That's close enough to 2' for me. 1:35n2 is going to be perfect for this! I am so happy I found this subject to model. I'm certain there are others modeling it. There is too much subject matter on the net for there not to be. If any of you are aware of model railroads on this subject or other modelers, I would be greatly appreciative if you'd pass the info along my way. Cheers, Mike Last edited on Sat Nov 10th, 2012 05:33 pm by mwiz64 |
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Keith Pashina Registered
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Mike: Thank you for posting the links to the WWI video. The first one appears to be all US railways - I wonder if the first part is training images, then about mid-way through the footage gets really interesting. I like the way the tracks thread through the town ruins. In one of the shots, you can really see the loco rock back and forth on the rough track - really neat!  At Fort Benning, Georgia, the infantry museum there has this Davenport 2-6-2 and passenger car on display. I think these were remnants from base equipment used to train operating troops, perhaps, but also to transport soldiers to training areas. I am not certain if this ran up to WWII or not.  That little passenger car would sure look good in 35n2!  I'm not sure what you'd use for the locomotive, but the running gear is very small proportioned, so maybe there's a convenient 0-6-0 mechanism. I'm looking forward to see what you come up with! Keith |
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mwiz64 Registered
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I agree about the locomotive. I'll figure something out. They have what appears to me to be some small gas critters too. I'm hoping the book I ordered has some better photos. In the beginning, it's my intention to convert a Bachmann On30 Davenport to look something like one of those. After that, I'll try to build myself one of those tank engines from some sort of HO mechanism. Mike |
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mwiz64 Registered
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In the beginning of the first video you can see them laying ties and gauging the rails but if you look a little closer you can see the surveyors out in front laying out the centerline. There is a guy facing away holding the range rod. If you look farther up you can see the instrument man putting him "On Line". He waves one quick wave with his left hand. The rod man then moves the rod slightly left. He waves it again and the rod man moves again and then the instrument man waves both arms up and down, meaning the rod is exactly on the centerline. Generally the rod man then outs a nail with a ribbon on it into the ground at that location. If you like I can explain how they lay out curves too. Mike Last edited on Sat Nov 10th, 2012 10:15 pm by mwiz64 |
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Keith Pashina Registered
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Mike: I have a copy of Narrow Gauge To No Man's Land, and I think you'll be very pleased with it There extensive good photos of the locomotives, rolling stock, and all kinds of other stuff. The book also has a section talking about the post-war dispositions of a lot of the equipment. It looks like a lot of went to building contractors. That in itself could be an interesting model subject. Keith |
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mwiz64 Registered
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Good deal.... I've been looking at lots of different HO scale 0-6-0 switchers. I think there are several that will make suitable power system donors. Mike |
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Keith Pashina Registered
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Between your WWI railways, and Woodie Greene's modeling, it is really tempting to model 35n2. So many neat ideas, too little time... Mike, are you familiar with Railine Forums? If not, check out the "Craftsmens' Corner" forum, in particular, a thread called Chambers Gas & Oil - the builder is doing a 1:35 gas station with incredible detail. He has used a lot of detail parts for the interior, and I was surprised at how much good stuff is available. A link to that page is http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=29357&whichpage=1 Keith[url][/url] |
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mwiz64 Registered
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That's Dallas's gas station. Very cool. I assume you've seen his Sammich Shop that he posted here? Mike |
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Dallas_M Registered
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Keith -- Thanks for the nice plug!  Mike -- You'll definitely enjoy the new book! Full of neat photos & drawings. A few of the steamers ended up on a logging line in West Virginia ... and that's one of my "one day" pipe dream projects for 35n2. The Bachmann HO 0-6-0T saddletank has roughly the right size drivers for doing one of the steamers in On30 ... you'll need something bigger than that to do it in 35n2. PS -- When searching the web for more info, you'll find the phrases "War Dept. Light Railway" and "War Department Light Railway" helpful ... AND the abbreviation "WDLR" by itself useful. Try those as IMAGE searches and you'll quickly spot relevant results.  Last edited on Sun Nov 11th, 2012 01:32 am by Dallas_M |
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mwiz64 Registered
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Thanks for the info Dallas. I'm sure that will be helpful with the research. Mike |
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Herb Kephart Moderator 
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The Germans used gasoline engine locos as well as the Allies, because the smoke from a steam engine was a sure giveaway to artillery on the other side. This meant that the steam engines were used a distance from the front. My favorite was a German one cylinder kerosene burner, built by Deutz. This things cylinder was horizontal, and had two 35 1/2" flywheels that were visible turning when the engine was running. The fact that I have a 5 cylinder Deutz air cooled diesel that I am putting into a old Jeep station wagon had absolutely no bearing on this interest (Yeah- right!). I blew up a drawing, the side view of this rascal (the loco) to 1/35. Ye Gods! it is tiny even in that large a scale--as is the 50 and 75 HP Baldwin lokies that our side used. Herb  |
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mwiz64 Registered
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I've been searching on the term trench loco and I'm getting plenty of hits on the Baldwin 2-6-2T but finding out anything about those gas burners is tough. I can see now that even a conversion of the Bachmann Davenport won't really be all that close to what I'm looking for but in the beginning that may be as close as I can get. Herb, I'd love to see anything you may have on the German one cylinder loco. Mike |
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Dallas_M Registered
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There are drawings of the Baldwin gas-mechanical in the book ... so that will be helpful. Quite a bit of difference between that and the On30 Davenport (sorry!) ... the Baldwin has: spoked wheels, outside-frame and side-rods with a connection to third shaft and counterweights ... tricky! That said, you could mimic the BODY STYLE for a freelance road ... |
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mwiz64 Registered
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I'll likely settle for a mimic like like you suggest, Dallas. I'm not a machinist so making what you just described sounds out of reach. Mike |
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Dallas_M Registered
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Well: (a) yeah, don't make yerself crazy ... (b) wait for the book ... it'll give you lots of suitable info ... scan/copy/print the drawings to actual 1:35 size to get a good reference. (c) some of the Bachmann HO Thomas the Tank locos might prove useful ... you'll have to check driver diameters ... but, I recall someone taking an 0-6-0 (or other six-driver mech) and removing the front driving wheels, but leaving the crank and axle to get something "similar" to that drive ... back to (a) ... I'd suggest doing something simple, as you've suggested, to get a piece of motive power going ... rolling stock falls into "normal" scratch building, so that's do-able ... then you can go back and tackle fancier loco projects ... the trench equipment is definitely cool stuff ... and you can model them in the field, or "stateside" at a QMC training center ... or after the war used by other railroads ... cool stuff! |
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mwiz64 Registered
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I'll be patient and wait for the book. I got some other projects I can work on in the mean time. Mike |
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pipopak Moderator 
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I noticed on the first video that they laid the track in a very modelling way: put ties down in a casual way, put rails and, as an afterthought, ballast. Lazier ones had Snap-track available. So we are following prototype practices to the letter!. Jose. |
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Herb Kephart Moderator
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OK Mike--here are a couple links to Duetz locos http://landships.activeboard.com/t42213044/ruston-proctor-narrow-gauge-loco-deutz-waltham-abbey-gun-pow/ http://landships.activeboard.com/t34299814/ww1-trench-railways-deutz-benzollok-4w-loco/ In both cases, scroll down for pix, plans. The side covers on the Deutzs slid open, fore and aft-- a surprisingly stupid arrangement, as a single dent along the top or bottom edges permanently locked the panel closed. I'm pretty sure that these things were started by heaving the flywheels around--so the large panels over the drivers were discarded early. Somewhere I have a pix of both side panels slid open. Lastly, there is- http://www.die-feldbahnsinnigen.de/forum/index.php which is a site just about German military railroads--IF you can read German--I can't  !!The Landships site has a lot of neat stuff about modeling WW1. If you turn up anything else, please post it here. Herb |
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mwiz64 Registered
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Those are some great links, Herb. Thanks! Those trench locos definitely look doable with a Bachmann Davenport as a jump off point. That Baldwin discussed above is going to be quite a challenge. I think I'm going to save that one as the final locomotive. Once I get to the point where I can do a reasonable model of that, I'll have made it as a modeler. I'm actually planning on starting the plans for it right away. No sense in waiting on that. I can make plans with the best of them. Mike Last edited on Mon Nov 12th, 2012 01:10 am by mwiz64 |
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pipopak Moderator
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Herb: the third ling is not working. But the other two...... Jose. Correct link would be: http://www.die-feldbahnsinnigen.de/forum/index.php Last edited on Mon Nov 12th, 2012 12:41 am by pipopak |
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Herb Kephart Moderator
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Thank You Jose That's what happens when Old Grand Dad helps me type! Herb |
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mwiz64 Registered
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I found a couple of nice pictures of what I believe are tha same locomotives as the Baldwin gas mechanicals used in the video. They may not be exactly the same but they have got to be very close. They are at the bottom of the page. http://www.northeast.railfan.net/diesel127.html Mike Last edited on Mon Nov 12th, 2012 04:02 am by mwiz64 |
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Herb Kephart Moderator
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Yup, Mike--they are the same locos Another good book--chock full of pictures, including the Deutz locos being worked on is- Two Foot Rails to the Front, by Charles Small ABE has a copy right now for $19.95 + shipping Highly recommended--don't think that any of the photos are repeats of ones that are in NGtoNML Herr Bert |
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mwiz64 Registered
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I just placed it on order. Thanks, Herb. |
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W C Greene Moderator 
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Hot damn! There is some real interest in these wonderful little railroads...finally. Yep, that "No man's Land" is a great work, and the plans are in 3/8" scale (close enough for 1:35) so you can get a real feel for how large, or little, they were. Woodie |
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mwiz64 Registered
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Interest... That's an understatement. Right now it's about all I think about. I'm a little bummed about the complexity of the Baldwin gas mechanical. I'm not altogether certain building one of those is ever going to be doable for me. The little tank engine however I'm fairly certain I can make a reasonable looking model of. Of course, just like before I found this stuff, I'm willing to make some sacrifices in the spirit of capturing the overall essence of the subject instead of being a rivet counter. I'm going to continue with my original plan. I'll build a couple square foot diorama first. I'm thinking something like that shed I posted about at the beginning of the summer with a converted Bachmann Davenport and maybe a flat car with some supply sacks. I'll get to learn how to hand lay a small section of track. I'd like to do some grass like that in that "end of the line thread". I'll try my hand at making a couple of figures too. That's my goal for this winter. If it goes well I may start planning a small shelf layout thereafter. |
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mwiz64 Registered
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I hit pay dirt on the locomotive front.... Not the gas mechanical however, http://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Narrow_Gauge__60cm__Railway.html |
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mwiz64 Registered
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I seem to be able to find models of the 50 hp Baldwin gas mechanical locomotive in 16mm scale for 32mm gauge and 4mm scale for 9mm gauge. So basically hits at half the size I want and twice the size I want. Typical..... |
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Dallas_M Registered
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New thread on some WW1 railway modeling in 1:76 scale: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=38274 PS -- Apparently a bunch of kits available for these items in "OO-9" ... which is British HO scale ("OO" or 1:76) on N gauge (9 mm) track ... which is too dang tiny for the stuff I like to do these days. Grumble!  But, still cool stuff!  Last edited on Wed Nov 14th, 2012 10:36 pm by Dallas_M |
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mwiz64 Registered
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I saw that too, Dallas... 4mm scale on 9mm track and then 16mm scale on 32 mm track . If I modeled in either of those scales I'd be golden. 4mm scale is too small for me and the 16mm scale stuff was live steam and $$$. I'll check out the thread.... Thanks. Last edited on Wed Nov 14th, 2012 11:00 pm by mwiz64 |
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mwiz64 Registered
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Here is another American made 60cm gauge locomotive in Europe. This one was made by Alco and it happens to be preserved and still running. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4TyvFTkuHQ I didn't realize American companies made such European style locos. I assumed they were all European made. |
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mwiz64 Registered
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Look at what I found here. It's a 1:35 scale model of a WW1 railroad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnRI5popu3Y |
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W C Greene Moderator
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That's a great display, thanks for the link Mike. There seems to be a lot of interest in WW1 troop railroads now. I like that post war version of a 2 foot logger using surplus Baldwin tank locos and ex GI cars. Cool stuff. Woodie |
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mwiz64 Registered
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I didn't see a model of a logging line like that, Woodie. That would be cool. Still, I'm fairly committed to doing a wartime railroad. One thing I think I'm going to have to accept in the beginning is not havering either the Baldwin tank engine or the Baldwin gas mechanical. Those are both beyond my modeling skills at this point. What I want to do, I think.... Is build Simplex Tin Turtle. In fact, I have an On30 Davenport that I started to convert into one of Dallas' Little Bose box cabs that now I believe will end up a 1:35 scale tin turtle instead. Then, I'm going to make a 1:35 scale version of that shed I started in O scale. My vision is a little scene with those and maybe a flat or two full of supplies and a soldier or two. This should be a good primer for me. After that, I should have a good feel for what I'm getting myself into and best of all... I nearly have everything to do it already so no big expenditure is required to make it happen. Last edited on Sun Nov 18th, 2012 03:40 pm by mwiz64 |
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rusty_project Guest
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Hi All, Thanks for posting these photos of the Davenport at Fort Benning - really interesting. I saw the restored US Army Baldwin at Taco des Lacs in France last year. Patrick did a terrific job restoring her (it had ended its days in Australia as an 0-6-2T, rather than a 2-6-2T as built) - he used "Narrow Gauge to NoMan's Land" has his main referrence text during the re-building to original condition! The US entered WW1 quite late in the conflict, initially they were using a lot of British & French Equipment (plus captured German vehicles). After a while thier own equipment started to be delivered in bulk. The main vehicles the US had in use in France were 35 & 50hp Baldwin gas-mechanicals, Baldwin 2-6-2T steam locos & a lot of "Pershing" Boxcars, flat/stake cars, gondolas and tank cars. Just as manufacturers had ramped up production, the war ended. A lot of equipment - steam locos (from Davenport, Vulcan, Baldwin - all 2-6-2T to the same general design), tractors, rollingstock never got shipped to France/Europe & instead remained at various US Military bases. The "Caboose" that is shown in the photos, is something that seems to built by the army on a standard "Pershing" underframe. I have 2 sets of these underframes in the UK at the moment that I am about to restore - one as a Flat car, the other as a gondola. The museum that I am involved with is planning a major event in September 2014 - to mark 100 years since the start of WW1. We are specifically celebrating these light railways used by all sides. Please see the website here; http://www.ww1-event.org Best regards, Gareth Roberts Last edited on Fri Dec 21st, 2012 02:57 pm by |
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Herb Kephart Moderator
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Gareth-- to FreeRails!I see in the link that you provided, that you are the organizer of the event--well done! The trench railway equipment has been something of interest to me, ever since I got a copy of "Narrow Gauge to No Mans Land" years ago--particularly the gas locos--both Baldwin, and Deutz. I applaud the work that you and your mates in the organization are doing, and wish you all the success that an effort like that deserves. Herb |
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mwiz64 Registered
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And another source for information added to the list.... Thanks for the post and the link, Gareth. |
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mwiz64 Registered
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I got my books today... Narrow Gauge to No Man's Land and Two Foot Rails to The Front. I'm just as fired up about this modeling subject as I was when I started this thread. I can tell before its all done I'm going to have to learn how to build my own engines because I have to have one of those Baldwin gas mechanical locos. In the mean time, some of the other more simple locos are going to get built. Merry Christmas everyone! |
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Ray Dunakin Registered
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Cool stuff, should make for a very interesting layout! |
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mwiz64 Registered
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I'm already looking at my B-man 2-6-0 and planning on converting it to a sort of Baldwin 4-6-0T in 1:35. It won't be exact but I think it will ba close enough for me in the beginning. |
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Herb Kephart Moderator
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Right on, Mike! Herb |
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mwiz64 Registered
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Here is some more interesting WW1 video from France. Actually, it's even better than the first videos I posted. http://www.ecpad.fr/les-petits-trains-de-la-grande-guerre-2 Last edited on Sat Feb 9th, 2013 10:02 pm by mwiz64 |
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