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Traction.... U.S vrs Erupe...
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 Posted: Thu Dec 27th, 2012 02:28 am
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smokebox
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  Just a silly question.....

    I you are a traction freak like I am,.....

 

   Would you throw in Europiean traction to model current traction in the U.S.???

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 Posted: Thu Dec 27th, 2012 02:49 am
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Herb Kephart
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You can't mix double deck cars and single deckers, unless the single deck ones have ridiculously high pole towers.

Most English and European use bow collectors--not sure how compatible they will be with poles on the same overhead wire.  Even English stuff with poles have swivel shoes (al la trolley bus) at the top--again--will all this work on the same overhead?

I would say pick one or the other.

One thought--some Brit. and possibly Continental lines used underground center third rail, with a slot in the paving--also used in metropolitan Washington DC. You could run the foreign cars that way, and the domestic on normal overhead --except for the afore mentioned double deck cars.

Herb 



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 Posted: Thu Dec 27th, 2012 03:11 am
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smokebox
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HIYA....

 

    Well I was thinking about the powerline up....

 

 For the life of me I have not figured out why the U.S. let europe make mile and miles of progress over the US when it came to stringing electric over petrol fuel..

 There is a very nice boxcab on evilbay, from japan with a Japanise proto..

  But little as far as is the US would have chased traction.......There is nothing...

 

Smokebox

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 Posted: Thu Dec 27th, 2012 03:46 pm
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Herb Kephart
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After the second world war,a corporation- National Cities Lines, was formed by General Motors to buy up all the local traction lines. They then converted the system to modern busses with A/C, scrapped all the electric stuff, and thereby eliminated track maintenance, and paving cost in the track area (required in many towns and cities in the initial franchise)

Then, mission accomplished, they sold off all the bus lines.

LA had a superior system (Pacific Electric). The track was removed from the center island of many freeways-- they weren't called that then--to make room for two more vehicle lanes.  Guess who's sorry now?


Herb 



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 Posted: Fri Dec 28th, 2012 02:14 am
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Kitbash0n30
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I'm not convinced it was a bus plot.
Have read that it was more likely that the cost of replacing worn out steel rails and copper overhead that had to be put off because of several years of WW2 war materials rationing was beyond the traction outfits' means.



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 Posted: Fri Dec 28th, 2012 02:16 am
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Kitbash0n30
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smokebox wrote:   For the life of me I have not figured out why the U.S. let europe make mile and miles of progress over the US when it came to stringing electric over petrol fuel..Simple answer, the majority voted with  their little greenback ballots and ruled in favor of personal independence via automobile.

Which kind of makes sense anyway - something had to be done with the industrial capacity created by WW2 manufacturing expansion and returning GI's needed jobs.
Massive auto production accomplished both goals.



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 Posted: Fri Dec 28th, 2012 02:20 am
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Kitbash0n30
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smokebox wrote:  Would you throw in Europiean traction to model current traction in the U.S.???
In an indirect answer, yes: my freelance Willow Creek Traction ( which gets poked along at every now and then) borrows ideas and details from all over the planet.



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 Posted: Mon Dec 31st, 2012 05:21 am
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Across the Bridge
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Herb Kephart wrote:
After the second world war,a corporation- National Cities Lines, was formed by General Motors to buy up all the local traction lines.

NCL certainly did come anywhere close to "buying up all the loacl traction lines". In some of the cities where NCL took over operation, traction operations lasted longer than they would have if that hadn't been the case.

If you read even some of the traction history books, its quite clear that it was pretty much straightforward free market capitalism at work for all system abandonments. Once the cost of providing electric street transit services was not being covered by the farebox, and it was just a matter of time before systems would be adandoned. The only systems that survived are those that were built by government (i.e. San Francisco MUNI) or passed into government operation, either directly or through government owned corporations, before the impact of hitting the finanacial wall became irrepairable.:!:

Even for the systems that were owned by government, the financial cost was sometimes too great to sustain, and some of them were partially or fully adandoned as well (Philadelphia having several unfortunately good examples of this). :sad:

Will

Last edited on Mon Dec 31st, 2012 05:23 am by Across the Bridge

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