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Interesting idea
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 Posted: Tue Jan 29th, 2013 11:39 pm
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jtrain
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Herb and On30Kitbash,

I've always loved Garratts (Garret, Garrett?) as well. TO me, it looks like a strange combination of a boxcab diesel with the front and back tanks, and an articulate locomotive with the large boiler and the two sets of driving wheels. It really is too bad there were very few, if any, in the U.S.

Does anyone think Canada might have had some? After all, they were to England politically than the U.S.


Woodie, Yes, yes, and yes :glad:

I like the look of that locomotive a lot. I like the smaller, lighter equipment, but the one thing I like more is a rugged looking locomotive. Makes me feel like the prototype had some horsepower to it. But like I said, I do like the proportions of that locomotive a lot.

Okay, I am creating new plans, and I hope to have some more photos posted tonight. heck, If I can get my all-in-one printer working, I can create a pdf, then put it on my blog for everyone to share.

Back to the drafting table.

Last edited on Tue Jan 29th, 2013 11:56 pm by jtrain



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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2013 05:45 am
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Ray Dunakin
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Kitbash0n30 wrote:
Would be neat if our history provided material for a book titled "The American Garratts".
Can you imagine what UP could have done with one?


Something like this, perhaps? :)



A "Garratt Big Boy" from the website, Loco Locomotives: http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/hex/hex.htm

Last edited on Wed Jan 30th, 2013 05:45 am by Ray Dunakin



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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2013 01:01 pm
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Bernd
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At least you won't need to build a turntable to turn it since it's bi-directional. :bg:

Bernd

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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2013 03:20 pm
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W C Greene
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Building a model of a Garratt type loco isn't as simple as suspending a boiler & cab between 2 engines...I found out. The real locos were carefully balanced over the mid point of the engines, like an 0-4-0+0-4-0 would need the pivot point directly between the drivers, likewise a 2-6-2+2-6-2 would need to be balanced over the center driver(s). When using an available mechanism(s), the pivot sometimes may be in the way of motor or gearing. I know that this sounds nitpickey but it does affect the operation of the model. I tried several things on mine before I had to move motors and gears to accomodate the pivot. It would seem that the pivot would be OK just about anywhere since it is after all just a model...but it won't work as well if it is not correctly "centered". Take this for what it is worth, it is however my experience and my little Garratt runs right and hauls a$$ like it should since I followed Mr.Garratt's plan.

Woodie



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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2013 06:01 pm
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Herb Kephart
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Also, the proposed loco could never make enough steam. I see that you extended the boiler, but Baldwin Locomotive Works said that only the first 20 foot of a boiler tube contributed  usefully to the making of steam.

Herb 



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 Posted: Thu Jan 31st, 2013 12:15 am
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jtrain
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Woodie, you're not being nit picky at all. In fact, I basically asked for exactly that kind of comment where someone says, "that's great but watch out for this." I suppose a review of Mr. Garratt's plans would be helpful.

As for the weight, like you said, it's only a model. What I might be able to do is counterweight the boiler and cab with decoy weights in the two tanks on either end. That might also give it more tractive effort for hauling loads. However, I do see your point, and so I will take the weight of the cab and boiler into account when it is built. Unfortunately, looking at the underside of the Mack, there is not much room in the middle of the motor block, and adding height would make this thing look ridiculous, so I instead intend to still keep the hole off-center (front to back and not side to side) but keep the counterweights on the motor blocks to keep the weight even (kind of like a counterbalance on a crane).

And herb, I also see your point, so I think I'll take the back of the cab off, and extend the boiler about another inch and a half; I will aslo increase the boiler diameter to 2 1/2 inches instead of 2 inches. That way it looks, good enough. But as woodie pointed out, it's just a model, and is certainly not live steam, so it really doesn't matter does it? (I can feel HO modelers cringe at this moment)

So I think I'll claim artistic license and won't worry about it. But thank you for pointing this out, as a scale modeler might want that tip about the boiler.

Thank you for the replies everyone, I'll soon have these designs, and more, on a pdf on my website. Maybe by tonight.

-James:java:

Last edited on Thu Jan 31st, 2013 12:16 am by jtrain



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 Posted: Thu Jan 31st, 2013 12:18 am
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jtrain
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UP: You think a big boy is big?
Wait till you see our new 4-8-8-4+4-8-8-4



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 Posted: Thu Jan 31st, 2013 12:50 am
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W C Greene
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James-you will get it right, sounds like you are on the right path. I was lucky to have a big book on Garratts which shows the innards and all the classes Beyer Peacock, etc. built with Garratt's patent. My model has a motor powering each engine. I might could have gotten away with one power unit and a dummy but I am glad I built her that way, she can pull a dead 2-4-4-2 up a 10% grade without slipping, needless to say she can haul any number of ore cars needed.
It has been pointed out that if several of the big South African meter gauge Garratts were "upscaled" for standard gauge loading, they would make a Big Boy into a little feller! There was a plan for a 4-12-4+4-12-4 Garratt but Stalin couldn't or wouldn't pay to have it built. Imagine that one.

Woodie



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 Posted: Thu Jan 31st, 2013 01:18 am
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jtrain
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Wow, 10% grade! "To go where no conventional engine has gone before" And how heavy was that 2-4-4-2? 5LBS maybe?
That really is impressive for a scale locomotive, you must really know your stuff::Salute: no, actually: :bow:

As long as we are talking about impressive feats of engineering, I was looking on Youtube about the Mack engine, and saw a video where one engine pulled a string of 20 mini cars along 4' diameter curves. So two of them, with the right weighting, could pull 40 of these, plus the weight of the locomotive.

I don't think it could manage a 10% grade, but I'm not exactly modeling the alps.

--James:java:



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 Posted: Thu Jan 31st, 2013 01:40 am
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W C Greene
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James-the 2-4-4-2 is one of the new Bachmann On30 locos that I converted (perverted?) to a 1:35n2 loco. She wouldn't pull the grade before I fixed her so while I was mad at spending that mucho dinero on a loco that wouldn't make the grade, I coupled the Garratt to it's front and #4 hauled the new loco up...non moving wheels and all. Yep, I was quite proud of her and I fixed the new loco but it ain't the puller that #4 is.
Woodie



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