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artfull dodger
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Gave up on the On30 plans, only got as far as getting a Climax(now for sale inquire within).  I had kept all my HO logging stuff short of a locomotive, I have 6 keystone logging buggies, barnhardt loader, kaydee caboose and a small sawmill.  I have a line on a nice PFM truck shay that I think I can swing if I can get the Climax sold.  My problem lies in my total inablity to draw up track plans that fit my available area.  I have a 2 foot by 8 foot shelf layout with a 3 foot "L" extension off one end.  I am not necesarly looking for a continious loop.  I understand that the sceen sets the mood in logging modeling, so in my mind's eye I still see a switch back style operation like the lumber line that Cass Scenic uses.  Putting the sawmill on the "L" extension with a small yard/engine house, maybe a couple company houses ect.  Or am I better off with a more level line, maybe following a creek bottom. I do have a set of the Woodland Scenics 4% premade grades that I thought I might use.     Mike

jtrain
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For logging, nothing works better than gum stumping! Here's the link to the Micro layout website's page on gum stumping, the page can fill you in on what I'm talking about:

http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page38a/index.html

This track plan is intended for a 18 X 72 or a 24 x 96 shelf. A three foot extension to the line gives you plenty of room. However, it does require a runaround for one locomotive operation, or if you reduce it to one switchback and have a 180 degree turn where the other should be.

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Oh yeah, and at the bottom of the page I gave the link to, the Cass railroad really is just a large gumstump! :bg:

--James:java:

artfull dodger
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Neat track plan, pretty much what I was thinking. Cass is a double switchback set up. And that is kind of what I was thinking in order to gain some height up the "mountain". The actual log loading area would be kind of blocked by a tree line so it doesnt actualy have to be modeled, just simulated. The focus on that part of the layout would be more of setting the mood, lots of trees overhanging the track ect. The sawmill and small company town would be the focus of structure and population modeling. Gotta have a bar and that special place for the unmarried lumberjacks to have fun. A small single stall ramshackle engine house with 2 tracks, 1 indoors and 1 outdoors. Now I need to get that On30 Climax sold so I can get the required motive power. All the log buggies need trucks yet, Kaydee arch bar with the add on brake beams are my plans there. Mike

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Here's one suggestion I have for a gumstump if you like that look:



As you can see, there is a track extending behind the lower level to the right. What I would do is take that track, extend it around a curve, throw a couple switches on it, and wallah, there you have your town and saw mill.

Then, on the lower level, I would replace the yard with a runaround track. This could be your interchange to the outside world. Then the top track you could either have one log landing, or just make it disappear behind trees like you had said, what ever you have room for.

A typical operating session would go like this:

The engine takes the cut lumber down the hill to the interchange track where it parks those cars on one side of the interchange track, the engine then pulls forward, flips a switch, and then backs a train of empty cars through the switchbacks up the hill to the log landing. From there, the train switches out loaded cars, and then goes back down to the interchange to runaround the cars. The train then continues up the hill past the first runaround and into town again. I'll put up a diagram in a moment.

artfull dodger
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I would modifiy that to a log reloading camp on the upper level, with a high line dragging logs in from the woods to be reloaded by the barnhardt loader on the train. Then back down the mountian to the sawmill. After parking those at the log dump, the shay will then switch out in bound and out bound box cars of loaded finished lumber. Its not a done idea yet, building a HOn3 DRGW short caboose right now. Was gonna do a HOn3 layout but it wouldnt amount to much as I lack the room for curves to run K class Mikados. To work around that, was thinking of using the T trak modular idea to make up a portable layout that I could put on the dining room table when I want to run. Exploring ideas, looking at what I have already on hand. No HO logging power but do have logging train, No HOn3 motive power, just a couple freight cars and a caboose, 1 On30 Climax but no On30 logging cars. On30 buildings are a bit steap for my budget. HO are more in my budget. Most of all this hinges on finding a new home for the Climax so I can use the funds to buy something else. Mike

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Okay, here is kind of what I was talking about, i think your idea is pretty similar. So here is a rough sketch on paint.


One helpful hint would be to figure out what scale you wanted first, then figure out what you can have on a layout. I mean, you could do a really nice display, but if you have few pieces of equipment or if it is a scale you don't want, then what good is the layout?

Just being helpful, I hope.

--James:java:

artfull dodger
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I have settled on HO, since that is the scale I have the most pre exhisting equipment. I have the Climax and a couple other things up for sale so that I can afford the shay in HO scale. I will only push forward with the On30 if I am unable to sell the Climax. That is kind of plan B. Just have to see what happens. I do like that track plan! Mike

mwiz64
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Put the Climax up on Ebay and it will sell.

artfull dodger
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It is, buy it now is $175, thats what I have in it. Lately folks have been waiting till the last few min to do anything on ebay it seems. Just sold my brass HO diesel on there, so I am part way to the shay. Mike

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Well if you're down to either HO or On30, then I guess it doesn't really matter what scale, but rather what kind of HO 'gauge' track you use. Though I would be flattered if you were use my plan I do recommend taking a look around at different sites and get a feel for exactly what you want. No railroad is better to you than your own railroad, so don't constrain yourself to only published plans. Don't be afraid to try new things.

I then suggest taking track and trying your own track plans on the finished bench work until you get a track arrangement that works for you. I can just about guarantee you that you are capable of modifying any previous track plan, even if not quite the architect some of us are on this forum (not referring to me in any way). With that information, a person would be hard-pressed to find fault in themselves.

Good luck on this layout, I can't wait to see it, no matter what scale you're using. I'll also take a look at that climax, seems interesting.

Best of luck--James:java:

artfull dodger
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Here is a shot of the On30 Climax on the grade toward the first switchback. If bidding doesnt pick up, I may pull the auction and keep the darn thing. I had planned to get the 3rd truck kit and dress up kit from Backwoods Miniatures. I will say the sound version runs poorly on straight DC, but totaly awsome on DCC. Lacking a DCC system, thats another cost I have to consider if I keep the Climax. Mike

artfull dodger
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Here is the pic from Backwoods Miniature's website, this is what I envisioned making my Climax look like. Mike

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I like that Backwoods conversion, Mike. Couldn't you do the majority of that without the 3rd truck just by painting and detailing it yourself? It's like James was saying, HO track and On30 track take up the same space. Of course, O scale equipment and O scale structures are twice as big as HO. I struggle with HO simply because it is so small... not the physical size of the models themselves but the details. I want nice detail and I'm too hamfisted to model details that small. Heck, I'm so hamfisted I went up to 1:35n2. The track is still HO but the details are 27% larger... easier to see. Easier to make.

I know it's not the Climax you desire but have you looked at the 1:35n2 Shays that Woodie has converted from a Bachmann On30 model? That would make an awesome little logging loco. Take a look. http://freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=4395&forum_id=17

Alright, that's enough selling 1:35 scale for one post. :rah:

Last edited on Tue Feb 5th, 2013 06:05 pm by mwiz64

mwiz64
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Oh and Woodie, if you're reading this.... Those rivets are perfect. :thumb:

W C Greene
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Thanks Mike..I'm like Santa, I see you when you are sleeping and know when you're awake...at least here on FR.

Woodrow

artfull dodger
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If I pull the auction on the Climax, it would become a 3 trucker real fast. That has the look I prefer in a Climax. I wish Bachmann had chosen a bit larger of a prototype like the Durban Rocket 55ton Climax. Same basic engine just a bit larger and still with Stephenson valve gear. It was the prototype for thier HO Climax I believe. The 3rd truck, even though its not driven much like the PFM brass Climaxes, gives the engine some bulk and more realism IMHO. The plan was for enough tail track for the 3 truck Climax and 3 Bachmann logging skels to fit. The plan was to climb toward the left side of the layout to the first tail track, then reverse to the right, climbing, crossing a bridge to another tail track. Then one final stiff climb to the reload camp, which would be simulated as the track will be almost up against the wall at that point. The spar tree would be up against the wall and the rest just a painted back drop. I would probably lay in a second track/siding between the loading track and the drop off down to the first switchback to pack some of the logging camp cars that Bman made a few years ago. The final tally of RR equipment I wanted for the On30 version of my line was the 3 truck Climax, 6 logging skels and the camp cars. In the plan shown on page 1, where he put the interchange, I would have the sawmill, either false front or just the simulated pond at the front edge of the layout, track would skirt the pond to the jill poke. The actual interchange to the outside world would be simulated by a track that comes out of the trees and disappears out of site where I could stage something, maybe an old Atlas O scale F9 and a box car or two. I find the cost of the buildings in O scale expensive. The trains I can manage easily enough. I have the $$ in hand now to get the backwoods stuff. Probably just start with the 3rd truck, not sure if I want the gypsie winch on the front or not. The stack from Bman is fine with me. It just needs lots of logging junk draped all over it and weathered. Weathering is something someone else will have to do. Not my cup of tea! Right now the Climax doenst run well on DC, cuts in and out then takes off at a good clip. The starting voltage for the motor, a CV, isnt set right. Going to get that reprogramed now as it will be awhile before I have my own DCC set up. Hard to warrent $150+ for a 1 loco layout! Whats the vote? On30 or HO? Thanks for all the advice, I realy appreciate it. I see pro and cons on both scales, none really outweights the other so I am stuck in the middle. Only advantage is I HAVE the Climax already. So that is scale I am leaning toward. I am a lone wolf localy for On30 so I dont get much inspiration localy, just the wonderfull stuff I see online. Thanks again. Mike

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Round these parts I dont see any Narrow Gauge modelers either. The LHS sells some On30 stuff but the guys there are N scale modelers or Lionel enthusiasts. So I sort of know how you feel.

I'm sure whatever you do it will turn out nicely. You are obviously putting a lot of thought into the planning process and you have a good idea of what you want. That's #1.

jtrain
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I can tell you right now that if you have the opportunity to use DCC, take that opportunity. The things that can be done with DCC is amazing now a days. Although you probably won't need to control two locomotives at once, the sounds the smoke, the lights, and the feeling of the railroad is boosted with DCC.

Of course this is just my opinion.

Best of luck to your layout.--James:java:

artfull dodger
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I have had DCC in the past, loved it but gave it up when I went to outdoors large scale and Lionel indoors. Depends what I can find second hand. I dislike Digitrax with a passion. I loved my NCE Powercab entry level set up. Was so easy for programing. Gonna keep my eyes open for a good used one from someone upgrading. Bachmann's Dynamis system is pretty nice as well for a smaller layout. Similar to what I used on my past Marklin layout. We played around with the Climax on my buddies HO DCC layout today. I dont care for any of the factory installed whistles, they give you a B&O 3 chime, peanut and DRGW single chime. I want a whistle like on the shays at Cass or the Climax over in Durbin WV. Cheers Mike

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My interest in DCC is suddenly piqued. You can have smoke with your Bachmann On30 locos with DCC?

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Okay, the smoke is standard on a lot of Bachmann locomotives. However, the point still stands that DCC is great for effects, if you happen to like those effects. The smoke alone is a great touch, but make it synchronized with the other lights and sounds, then it looks real.

artfull dodger
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The syncro smoke is a feature on MTH brand HO trains, not on any Bachmann stuff yet. I have decided to keep the On30 Climax and have ordered the 3rd truck kit from Backwoods Miniatures. I will also order a spare rear truck from Bachmann and fake the drive shaft. No real easy way to make it driven, plus the added stress on the line shaft wouldnt be good. I will make a carrier bearing where the coupler goes now on the 2 truck set up. SO there will be a rotating shaft from the 3rd truck and on the layout, you wont notice its not actualy connected to the rear truck. I would look at driving it, IF someone comes out with all metal drive shafts and univeral joint colars to solve the splitting issues. With all these on the market, you would think someone would make them up in metal or brass, sales would be tremendous as it would solve the driveline issues once and for all. mike

artfull dodger
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What about using a small rod engine? I swapped some excess O and G scale track to a small shop today for an old PFM/United 2-6-2 Prairie King. Doesnt run to bad after I requarted a driver that was causing a hitch in her get along. Has an actual Pittman motor istead of the usual Japanese clone of a Pittman. I would probably put a can motor in it eventualy so I can put my sound decoder in it. Still needs some time on the test look to run in the drive. Acts like a Mantua that needs some serious run in time! The end issue is my whole hobby is on a shoe string budget, swapping and bartering to get needed items or better items. The On30 is nice, but structures are expensive and the long term dependablity of the driveline in the Bachmann engines is questionable. The drive in a PFM/United engine, not so much. On hand I now have the PFM/United prairie, 6 Keystone log buggies, 1 Kaydee disconnect set and 1 Kaydee logging caboose. Other than some more track and a sawmill the rest is scenery work ect. I would like to find one more engine, question is geared or rod. Track radius will be 15" so it would be a small rod, probably another prairie, depends if I can find another and what its selling for. There is a PFM Climax for sale localy but its at the top limit that I can cover right now. Rather go a bit cheaper and put the rest of the money toward the layout. Hopefully this newest round of job apps yields something. Mike

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Howdy Mike. That old PFM Prairie King is a great lokie. I inherited one from Muj and she runs like a watch. Many, many years back...a fellow brought me 2 of them and wanted a "Garratt" built. I used one superstructure, cut the tenders up into small ones that covered the motors, and built a brass platform for the boiler & cab. The loco looked pretty cool and ran great. It took some mental strength to whack up 2 nice brass locos like that but it was fun and the old loco is still around and running.
The Prairie King would make a fine rod loco for a log show, there were many used over the years. I say get another one if possible. Have fun.

Woodie

artfull dodger
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You dont have any pics of the garrett do you? That would have been neat to see. There used to be many articles in Model Railroader on modfiying brass engines, which were more generic back then, to a specific prototype. So nothing wrong with that, but it does take some bravery! I havent seen another Prairie Kig around, would love to find an original box for mine. It came in a box for a LMB NYC 0-6-0. PFM also did a generic baldwin 2-6-2 with Walscherts valve gear instead of the slide valve Stephenson of the PK version. Untill I get some stuff that I have for sale sold, it will be a one lokie show. Mike

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Sorry, the Garratt was built about 40 years back and the guy who owns it now is not "photo friendly", I think he's hiding from the IRS. I do have the original box for the Prairie King loco. Muj (Bill) bought it and a beautiful little GEM 2-4-2 on fleabay for $100 for both since they had been "custom painted" with a house painting brush and were partially dis-assembled. If you want some cool loggers, look for old NWSL lokies, they are still around.

Woodie




Here she is.

artfull dodger
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Nice lokie!! I like that one alot. I am working on the motor to gear box connection. Didnt like how the rubber tube wanted to push the gear box around and transmit noise. Try to work with what I have on hand in my goodie box of drive line parts. Mike

artfull dodger
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The NWSL stuff is nice, but more expensive than the PFM/United engines. Thier logging mikadoes go for as much as a PFM geared engine! There is a 0-8-0 by NWSL on ebay right now, but with flanges on all drivers, its gonna need more than a 15"r curve. I think the PFM 2-6-2's are the perfect size for a rod logger. Cant seem to find any of the above style for sale at the moment, if you see one, give me the heads up. I sold my On30 Climax, she is headed to Aussie land. Mike

artfull dodger
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Here is my little Prairie, no road name on her yet. Mike


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