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Are Rivets Over Done ?
 Moderated by: W C Greene Page:    1  2  3  4  Next Page Last Page  
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 Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2013 04:16 pm
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mwiz64
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I have a friend that is a fairly highly regarded scale R/C airplane modeler. One time, I asked him about why on some of his smaller models (still quite large by model railroading standards) didn't he put rivets on his models. His words were, "The guys that are rivet nuts are mostly BS'ing." So I asked, what do you mean. He said look at the full scale subjects from any distance but right up on them and tell me if you see the rivets. He was right. You couldn't see them unless you were right up on them.

Now, I know that planes generally have small and recessed rivets but I'm seeing a similar pattern here in many train models. When you look at the cars or locomotives in full scale do the rivets jump out at you like they do in some of our models? I generally don't think they do. Sure some are big but many more seem over done. Just compare a full scale photo to one of your models.

Why am I talking about this now? Well, as you may have seen, I'm contemplating buying a rivet punch for a current project... or at least contemplating buying some expensive rivet details. I'm just wondering if the expense and hassle will really add realism to my model or if I'll just be "BS'ing".



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 Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2013 06:56 pm
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W C Greene
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Do what I do...my crews are all experienced gas torch jockeys and all the ore cars are welded together. I still like rivets on my old steam locos but the IC loco is welded. After all, it is your railroad and whatever you want is OK. In photos of most steam locos, you can see rivets and look at a McKeen car...they kept the rivet makers in business! It's sort of like nail holes in boards (this will incite the structure builders to want my head) but that "detail" is REALLY overdone. However, contest judges want, or need, to see such stuff. Look at old buildings from maybe 50 feet away (1 foot for O, 6" for HO) and tell me that you can see nails. One man's meat is another's poison.

Woodie-stirring up the cauldron again



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 Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2013 07:12 pm
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Dan B
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I am working on a project that I assumed was going to need a lot of rivets.  I was getting ready to get going when I looked a little closer at the proto photo.  No rivets in half the places I was going to rivet.  In fact I maybe removing some rivets from a few areas on the pre-made parts.  I like Woodies rule, "Look at old buildings from maybe 50 feet away (1 foot for O, 6" for HO) and tell me that you can see nails."  I guess its up to you.  Are you modeling a railroad or one engine/car/ building?  I am going to worry a little less about rivets for now and get on with the railroad.

my .02,
Dan B

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 Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2013 07:46 pm
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Heath
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Mike, I have been working on a technique for creating rivets in styrene. I have been successful in embossing up to 30 tho thick.

Tools: pin vise
pounce wheel
wire, various thickness or drill bits
several sheets of paper
ruler or straight edge
styrene 5 - 30 tho thickness
sand paper 600 grit

I will try and get some photos tonight and post.

Cheers, Heath

Last edited on Mon Feb 4th, 2013 07:46 pm by Heath



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 Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2013 11:30 pm
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mwiz64
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I think unless I see photos of equipment where the rivets are obvious from a distance, they are not going to be modeled. They just make the model look like a caracture.



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 Posted: Tue Feb 5th, 2013 01:19 am
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Kitbash0n30
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Sometimes it is more convincing to offer people what they think they should see instead of what they really would see.

Experience overpowers replication.



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Screw the rivets, I'm building for atmosphere
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 Posted: Tue Feb 5th, 2013 01:25 am
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mwiz64
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I think rivets have their place in our modeling. I couldn't build a Simplex Tin Turtle without rivets and have it be a convincing model. That said, the rivets will not be an overpowering feature like I've seen on some models. That's the trick IMHO. Add them where they are appropriate but don't get carried away in number or more particularly, size.

Last edited on Tue Feb 5th, 2013 01:27 am by mwiz64



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 Posted: Tue Feb 5th, 2013 05:29 am
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Ray Dunakin
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It depends on the following:

1. What you're modeling. For instance, things like steam locomotives, tank cars, etc have large rivets that are noticeable even from a distance.

2. How closely it will be seen or photographed. For "average use" the three foot rule may apply. However, some folks like to photograph models up close, in which case fine details (or lack thereof) will be more noticeable.

3. Personal taste. This is really the most important. If you want model every little detail, go for it. If you don't, that's ok too. Caricatures are great too if that's your thing. Me, I like to model all the details, and I like to shoot closeups. On the other hand, I'm trying the capture the look of the prototype, and don't usually care about getting the exact number of rivets, etc.

I think a lot of the "overdone" look comes from making rivets too big, especially in the smaller scales.



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 Posted: Tue Feb 5th, 2013 03:43 pm
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mwiz64
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You're right, Ray. There is a place for everything, including caricatures. Heck, even I like caricatures in model railroading at times. My Brookville certainly fits that description.

I do think the major mistake made is making the rivets too big. I'm sure I'll make that mistake more than once myself. This thread wasn't so much to be critical of others but rather to see if people here noticed the same thing that I do about them. For instance, last night as I was on my way home from work I passed by the giant railroad yard at the Chevy Truck plant in Flint. I looked at the cars and such from a medium range of about 100'. The rivets and bolts were viable but they were tiny dots by comparison. I think the problem is when we try to make those in 3D they too easily end up being too big. I think it's pretty hard to make a scale size rivet.

Anyway, the tank car project is under way. I haven't placed any rivets yet. I'm going to wait until it's a little farther along to make that decision.

Thanks for your thoughts, everyone.

Last edited on Tue Feb 5th, 2013 03:44 pm by mwiz64



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 Posted: Tue Feb 5th, 2013 04:40 pm
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W C Greene
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Mike-think welded tank. That may solve the problem.

Woodie-rivets don't count anyway



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