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Corrimal Colliery Incline
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 Posted: Fri Sep 30th, 2016 12:05 am
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oztrainz
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Thanks Rod,
I'll try a 3-way splice for one of the bigger trees that I'll need soon :2t:



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John Garaty
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 Posted: Fri Sep 30th, 2016 01:54 pm
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Herb Kephart
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John--that makes a quite good looking Gum tree.

 In North America, we don't have gums (at least I haven't heard of any) and the canopy of our deciduous trees tends to be more spread out height wise. I have collected some materials to try when I get a bit of time. Too many things to do----

One of the problems with natural materials is that what is easy to acquire in one area, might not grow in another--my intended included--but IF there is something suitable, it saves a lot of work (and often looks better) than a man made armature. I have seen some exquisite maple trees in a museum diorama. When looking at it closely, I realized that the leaves appeared to be photo-etched. No thanks. Beautiful, but I don't have a group of talented model makers at my fingertips-- not any way that I could afford them if I had,

So my search for something that I am capable of doing --without spending an inordinate amount of time, goes on.

Herb



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 Posted: Fri Sep 30th, 2016 07:00 pm
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oztrainz
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Hi Herb,
Don't get too focused on just sedums. I've seen yarrow published as very effective US/European type trees.

Can I suggest you head off to your nearest florist? Have a look at some of the "fillers" that they use to make bouquets etc, like "Baby's Breath". This will also give you the more open canopy that it sounds like you are after. See if you can get hold of some of the "discards" for a trial or two.

Also look at some of the dried flowers while you are there. Don't worry about the colour. What you are looking for is something that will give you the "look' you are after.

The paint technique will work on any plant stuff that doesn't drop everything when its dead. You may have to hit your "proposed tree" with a spray adhesive as a base coat to hold what is already attached to the branches before you do any more work on it.

The trick with the paint is to go for variation in the depth of the colour sprayed on as well as some variation in the colours being sprayed. This gives you trees that look "related but different".

Also a visit or two to some of your local garden centre might turn up something. If you are after a broader canopy, perhaps one of the spreading ground-cover shrubs might be suitable for grafting on to a taller plant that provides the armature?

Remember your scale, for HO the 6" to 12" long sedum heads area approaching 40-80' actual feet of tree height. Unless you are building redwoods, really 150' scale height or about 2' actual should see you max out for height and not all of that would be canopy.

This is where balsa trunks come into their own and the sedum branches or similar can be stuck to the side to provide the wider canopy around a central balsa core to provide the trunk. Balsa or some other soft easily carved timber for the core and adjust the height and taper to suit your needs. Use air dry clay/putty etc to form up the buttress roots at the lower end of the trunk where the roots start to spread before the head into the ground

In O scale 12" is only 40' and a 40' high gum tree rates as high scrub, not a tree.

Good Luck with your search for something suitable for your part of the world.



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John Garaty
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 Posted: Fri Sep 30th, 2016 10:33 pm
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Salada
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John,

For you & anyone else interested in rope hauled colliery incline videos, see :

YouTube Bowes Line (1975), this shows about the last of the system run by 'professionals'

YouTube Bowes Railway Rope Haulage 29 8 99, shows the line run (slowly) by interested amateurs. Not edited in exactly the right order, watch the crew handbraking the set to a halt.

I'm not expert at giving youtube addresses, the above should work (maybe).

Regards, Michael

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 Posted: Wed Oct 5th, 2016 06:42 am
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Robert Comerford
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Herb ,you will see lots of Australian trees in the background of many early Hollywood westerns.
They were planted in parts of California.

 cheers
 BobC

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 Posted: Thu Oct 6th, 2016 07:20 pm
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oztrainz
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Salada wrote: John,

For you & anyone else interested in rope hauled colliery incline videos, see :

YouTube Bowes Line (1975), this shows about the last of the system run by 'professionals'

YouTube Bowes Railway Rope Haulage 29 8 99, shows the line run (slowly) by interested amateurs. Not edited in exactly the right order, watch the crew handbraking the set to a halt.

I'm not expert at giving youtube addresses, the above should work (maybe).

Regards, Michael



Hi Michael and all,

I've found the Youtubes of the Bowes line

1975

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDaXXtG-XiI

1999

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibMQ_BkXEv8

In my best Crocodile Dundee voice -

Naah that's not an Incline.... This IS an INCLINE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_efpsVq5Wc

and for those who've never seen what is involved in contract hand mining, may I also offer from the Land of the Long White Cloud
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=looU8oBg3KI


This is the same mining system and similar coal transport equipment being modelled in the 1920's for Corrimal. The narrow-gauge steam tram in this clip is interesting as well from 5:00 minutes in and the Dennistone Incline is featured again at 4:30 in.

That ought to keep you all out of mischief for a 1/2 hour or so ;)

Now that we have track down at the top of the incline, I suppose its time for scenery building at the top of the hill?

Last edited on Thu Oct 6th, 2016 07:45 pm by oztrainz



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 Posted: Sat Oct 8th, 2016 04:53 pm
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Herb Kephart
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OK--A question (you know that I would have one, didn't you) ?

On the Dennison incline, since everything had to get to the top, using it, how did they get long things, such as all the wooden rafters to the top? seems that there would be a problem at the bottom transition, unless it  was more gentle than it looked

Oy cobber, lifted the bloody cart right off the rails till it peeled the sticks off the cart, it did.

Or something like that.


'erb



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 Posted: Sat Oct 8th, 2016 08:33 pm
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Salada
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Thanks John for fixing the correct U Tube links - I fought on the losing side in the Digital Revolution.

Dennison is an interesting incline - an unusual mix of 2 rail, 3 rail & interlaced gauntlet. Consideraby steeper than most English inclines.

I was surprised to shot holes still being hand drilled in the 1950s, maybe the anthracite was too brittle for compair drills - it looks very good quality coal.

Regards, Michael

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 Posted: Sat Oct 8th, 2016 11:23 pm
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oztrainz
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Hi Herb,
I'm not an expert on Denniston and NZR operations, but from the video Denniston was that long that it had to be worked in 2 stages. As far as vertical curves go, Most of if not all the NZR rolling stock used on the incline was 4-wheeled and probably belonged to the O P & Q classes =http://nzrailwaysrollingstocklists.weebly.com/q---4-wheel-coal-hopper.html

Longer timber items and pit props were probably sent uphill in L class wagons http://nzrailwaysrollingstocklists.weebly.com/l-family---highside-4-wheel.html. Also check out extra safety chains either side of the central "chopper" coupling on the LB class.http://nzrailwaysrollingstocklists.weebly.com/lb---wooden-6-ton-of-1907.html

Now because the wagons are short (probably less than 20' (say 6 metres or or so) and they are moving singly over the incline, you can get away with sharper vertical curves than for longer bogie rolling stock.

This is why we can do this

on Corrimal, with even smaller wagons

For far more on the Denniston Incline can I recommend http://www.doc.govt.nz/Documents/conservation/historic/by-region/west-coast/denniston-archaeological-survey-high-res.pdf 90 pages or so should keep both you and Micheal out of mischief for a while :bg:

Last edited on Sun Oct 9th, 2016 12:00 am by oztrainz



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 Posted: Sat Oct 22nd, 2016 11:30 pm
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oztrainz
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Hi all again,

time to head back to the top of the incline for some scenery - but how do you work out what goes where?? And where in a 3 dimensional space should it be?

This layout is planned for exhibition work.  So you have to plan what the public sees - what you want them to see, what you don't mind them seeing, and, what you don't want them to see (we have to keep the "black magic" black and let the "magic" of how we do "stuff" speak for itself)  Now please remember that we started thinking about this layout way back in late 2005. In past 10 years cameras have got smaller, with better lenses and longer zooms, and can get into places that would have been inconceivable way back in 2005. 

On some of the UK-based forums over the past few years there has been some pretty heated discussions about layout viewing heights for publicly exhibited layouts. Hopefully the same won't happen here as I open up this can of worms. This post is about why the heights are what they are for the Corrimal layout.

The concept behind this layout since Day 1 has been of a narrow-gauge railroad coal transport system. The key words here are "transport system". It transports coal from the mine, along the side of a mountain to the top of the incline, lowers the coal down the incline, tips the coal, elevates the coal to the screens for sizing and transfer to standard-gauge wagons and the returns the empty skips back up the incline and back to the mine for refilling. That's all there is to it. Simple huh?

Once you get past the mechanics of how you do all this stuff you are still left with the problem of height difference - between the mine level on the side of the mountain and the  screens level at the bottom of the incline 300' (approx. 100 metres) lower. In scale this height difference is over 7' (2.5 metres).  

The incline itself ran for about 900' (about 300 metres) or when scaled out in actual terms, 20' or about 7 metres long. Also remember for a 1 in 4 grade on the incline, for every 1 unit in height the incline footprint grows by 4 units in length. So some major selective compression is required for the height run as well as the distance run by the model railroad system if the "system" is to be modelled as a publicly exhibitable layout. 

Setting the screens at floor level is not a realistic option for an exhibition layout, so this level has to come up to an "acceptable" viewing height. But that then jacks the other end of the incline up as well... if this happens, then we'll be operating the top end of the incline while standing on step ladders. This is not an acceptable or realistic operating option. So the both the height and length of the incline has to decrease. And the height at the top end of the incline basically then sets the height for the mine and the scenery in between the two.

So all of the above now leads to the concept of the Lowest Public Viewing Height (LPVH)


Back with the LPVH, what it is, and photos of how it applies to Corrimal shortly. 



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John Garaty
Unanderra in oz
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