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Corrimal Colliery Incline
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 Posted: Sun Oct 23rd, 2016 11:33 pm
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oztrainz
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Hi all again,

So what is this about the LPVH? How does it work and why should it be considered?  

Now Corrimal is planned for exhibition work with a planned 600 mm clearance zone as shown in this plan.



So what does this mean as far as designing for what the public sees?

Some givens:

1 -All public won't be my size when standing, so the layout will be being viewed from multiple heights.

2- Once children get to a certain size, they are too big and heavy to be carried and will be standing. The bottom end module and part of the incline will be below their eye level and there should be enough "action" there to keep their "attention"

3 - For the bigger children/severely vertically challenged adults, my design choice for the LPVH (Lowest  Public Viewing Height) was made with me sitting in a chair at 600 mm from the layout with an eye height of about 1000 mm to 1050 mm above ground level(AGL).   

So how does the LPVH work? Here's the starting point, as viewed from my standing eye height, before any scenery was applied




The tracks at the top end are about 1400 mm above ground level (AGL) The top end of the incline and the run back to the mine is intended to give the impression of a railway clinging to the side of a mountain. This part of the layout is designed to be viewed from here and on the other side of the incline as shown by the plan above.
 


OK now consider someone at the top left corner of that access area between Brokers Nose and the Incline Top who is looking at what they might see at a "normal" adult eye-height, as shown in the previous photo. A closer look at this area before scenery looking towards the top end of the inclines



But at LPVH, the scenery has to be carved back from the edge


so that the lower track can be seen and the loaded skips heading down the lower level Fulls Incline can be seen

Remember that part in the previous message about what we don't want the public to see?? We don't really want to show the pick up point at the top of the Fulls incline, just the loaded coal skips heading downhill. Remember that bit about keeping the magic "black"? So we put a "hill" in the way.


   

When the scenery carving is done, we have the greaser and a skip at the drop-off point on the higher level Empties incline a loaded skip headed downhill on the Fulls incline 


 

At normal viewing distance, with the zoom backed off, we have


Yes that's our greaser and his skip at the top of the Empties incline - Waaay up there. From the LPVH, the full skips will appear in the gap, then disappear behind the trees on the incline, then reappear as they head onto the bottom end or Tipple module




That'll do for this side of the layout. Next up - the saga of the trestle bridge at the top of the Empties Incline.



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John Garaty
Unanderra in oz
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 Posted: Mon Oct 24th, 2016 12:08 am
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Robert Comerford
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Nice work there John.

Discussing layout height is a bit like religion.
I well remember one older male punter at Brisbane one year. I was helping Rohan exhibit Bolivia for the first time there.
He gave me a dressing down about the layout being too high for the little kiddies to see. He wanted me to cut all the legs down immediately and when I suggested the owner might not like it and besides the owner had already lowered it for those suffering from ducks disease like me he was still not satisfied and continued to assail me. After trying to point out that exhibitions tried to cater to all and this was not designed for 'kiddies' but for serious modellers to appreciate and that the hall was full of layouts for mum,dad and the kids such as the Thomas layout on one side of us he finally left to annoy the next layout owner.
I later learnt he was ear bashing that layout owner about how we were such inconsiderate people and how he thought his layout ( being at least a foot lower than Bolivia) was so much better.
You can imagine the distress it caused him to be told that the owner considered the layout to low and was going raise it to the same level as Bolivia for the next outing.
That evening we heard back from the AMRA officials that he had given a couple of the officials at the exit door a blast about not demanding all layouts be down at kiddie height.

:>;) :>;)

cheers
Bob

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 Posted: Mon Oct 24th, 2016 12:59 am
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oztrainz
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Hi all,
before we could go too far with scenery on the top end there was a significant track modification to be done.

Which brings us to the saga of the trestle bridge.....
From the the limited printed references available, the the Empties Incline was described as crossing over the Fulls Incline on a trestle bridge. There was a further wrinkle in that the track passing under the trestle split off a track to standage sidings further along the mountain side. There are no accurate plans for this and no photos of this area are known to exist. On the model we had already slewed the angles of the incline to make things fit, so even if there were accurate plans or photos available they wouldn't have been much use As built for this part of the model incline we had:


Team member Professor Klyzlr has some "significant experience" (a significant understatement) in researching and building models of timber trestles, so he presented us with this pre-weathered one at the Easter Convention in 2013 in stained balsa that was measured to fit.

Looks a little short?? No, not really, because the foundation level of the piers is at the same height as the raised lower track. So how to make it fit?

Most bridges are built from the ground up - this one had to be installed from the track down without affecting the track in thin air while it was going in.. For additional degrees of difficulty the trestle has a falling grade away from the Empties Incline and the lower-level tracks are not level.


First remove the supporting ply


I measured it twice and still managed to cut it too short - :doh:

So now I have a trestle bridge floating in mid-air.

At least the skips will go past without hitting the piers

The "rock wall and support" has yet to appear at the left end of the bridge

The track is now superglued to the balsa sleepers on the trestle deck. I have some magic woodworking glue that expands as it goes off...

That big foam blob to the left is a mock-up of where the brakehouse will be - more on the brakehouse and rope runs later. It is already starting to get a bit tight in here..and most of the scenery has yet to go in. The far left pier in the photo has a problem.... nothing under it. I suppose 5 out of 6 ain't bad.

Looking the other way

Things look like they are starting to sort themselves out with the view-block now under Chux in preparation for basecoat painting and a brakehouse mock-up now makes an appearance on the other side of the trestle.

From above -

with pieces of cereal pack glued in to provide a foundation for future dirt and ballast (aka spilt coal and stone) and to cover the gaps between ply track supports on the lower levels.

I needed to do something about this end of the trestle foundations. *-:) How about a big block of foam and some retaining walls?

As viewed looking towards the Water Tank Module. I'll show you how they all finish up later.



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John Garaty
Unanderra in oz
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 Posted: Mon Oct 24th, 2016 05:48 pm
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Ken C
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John

It is starting to come alive, after seeing it in the Bare bone state in 2013 at the NG meet. Hope I can make it down next year for the meet.



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Ken Clark
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 Posted: Wed Oct 26th, 2016 08:48 am
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oztrainz
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Hi Ken,
I hope you can make it too. There will be plenty more to see than last time.

Now on to how the LPVH works when applied to the other side of the tracks at the top of the incline.

Keep an eye out for that chap waving in the last photo of my previous post. Stay tuned, more along shortly...



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John Garaty
Unanderra in oz
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 Posted: Wed Oct 26th, 2016 08:57 am
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Rod Hutchinson
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Hope you can make it downunder Ken.



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Rod Hutchinson
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 Posted: Wed Oct 26th, 2016 09:16 pm
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oztrainz
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Hi all again,  
Previously I introduced the LPVH design concept.
 
It's now time to have a look at the "other side of the tracks" on the Top End module.
 
Remember the kids and that derailed coal skip - they are at close to LPVH on the incline module

 
Backing the zoom off, at the junction between the Incline and Top End modules, we have 

 
Here's what we have without any foam on the top end module from this side of the tracks at LPVH looking to where the Empties Incline swings away over the Fulls incline

The first attempt at foam carving is underneath.  
 
Zooming in on the Top end from LPVH, the view of the tracks is obscured by the left end of the Top End  module - Sorry but I can't do much about that, but I should be able to see skips travelling along most of the run of the higher level Empties Incline. Remember that the lower-level Fulls Incline is totally obscured here by the Empties incline and can only be seen from the other side.  

 
So what happens when the foam starts to be blocked in to at least rail-height? From the other side..

this is not going to look real good from the other side...
 
Can't see a thing - time to start carving

 
The "first carve" looks pretty good from my standing height 

 
Remember our greaser and the skip that we set up for the other side back in Post #131? - here he is again at the far left.

 
Checking out the LPVH again

Houston, we have a problem..He's disappeared..more carving is required at the front edge... until
 
Ahh! There he is again. Maybe we still need a smidge more off?

 
That's better


I eventually arrived at Mount Chux after the foam was covered with Chux cloth and bedded down with flexible caulking compound.

 
but this is only the front part of this module - there is a brakehouse for the incline that has yet to go in. More on the brakehouse next..



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John Garaty
Unanderra in oz
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 Posted: Wed Oct 26th, 2016 09:41 pm
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Robert Comerford
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This is going to be one interesting exhibit when finished John.
regards
Bob

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 Posted: Fri Oct 28th, 2016 02:43 pm
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Salada
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Hello John,

One solution to the LVPH problem that I have occasionally seen at Brit Exhibitions is a movable, ramp access low wooden platform, about + 12" - 14" above floor level, strategically placed right in front of major interest points on a layout, where kiddies can stand, and be 'supervised' by their parents standing at floor level immediately behind them. As I have seen so few of them, I presume this is an individual exhibitor solution rather than an Exhibition Organiser initiative.

Your Fulls, Empties Inclines cross over point is looking nicely cramped and tight fitting - just like that point on the real thing. Some of the trestles at this point were an absolute maze of timbers & cross braces, all creaking and swaying as a loco went charging up propelling a cut of heavy fulls up to the discharge spouts. With Madame's kind permission I used to sometimes 'invest' a week of my precious annual leave by dashing up to Heaven (sorry, the ever fascinating Northeast) to see the last remains of our coal mining and shipping trade in action, where the 'teemers' ** used to welcome me up the external wooden stairs to the spouts (the coal wagon discharge chutes at the incline head).

** Teemers were the chaps who braked the rake, or cut, to a halt, chocked the wheels and pulled the bottom discharge door 'handles' ,known as monkey tails. A real old time teemer always had a weirdly flattened thumb, where repeated mallet blows to release or close the door monkey tails and remove the wheel chocks (scotches) had missed and hit his own thumb. Ouch. Many a Blythe pub regular had a flattened left thumb and nail.

Regards, Michael

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 Posted: Fri Oct 28th, 2016 03:40 pm
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W C Greene
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Yes, make it visible to the kids. My experience at train shows is that you can pretty much trust kids to "not touch" when they are told...but the "adults" ALWAYS want to and DO touch your models and many times cause damage because they "know" how to handle fragile models. Maybe the adults need to be muzzled and constrained while the kids get to run free!

Woodie



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