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Si.
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Shays !!!

Logs !!!

Lumber !!!

One of my favorite books !

Loads more comment to follow ...

... & I'm sure from other readers ( please ! )

BUY IT !!!

NOW !!!

Cheers

Si.

P.S. PLease post Mich.Cal. links ...

... thanks !

W C Greene
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http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=pino+grande

OK, here's a link, once again on ABE. Every narrow gauge/logger should have this one. Mich Cal is one of my favorites...aerial tramway, wild trackwork, and little #2, the Deuce...what more can I add. By R S Polkinghorn.

Woodie
PS-the second edition (soft cover) has more photos and info not shown in the original printing. I know this because I have both.

Si.
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:cb: That alota board foot o' lumber ...



Si.

:P

Si.
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Hi Loggers !

If yer a Mich. Cal. fan; no need for explanation...
...but.

I should have explained the above photo a bit.

The cars of sawn-lumber shown are a bit unusual for shipping timber; right ?

The sawn-lumber was loaded onto these cars; to travel on the INSANE Mich. Cal. cable-car; out of the logging area, & to the market.

EVERYTHING had to go, one-way or-another, across on the cable-car.

Locomotives were far too heavy for the cable-car...
...they were dis-assembled on one side...
...and then re-assembled on the other.

Pictures of the cable-car; give me the SHIVERS !

But hold on tight !
Don't look down...
...& I believe the cable-car had a 100% safety record (I think !)

Cheers

Si.

W C Greene
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The aerial tramway...quite a sight I am sure. I remember many years ago at a national NMRA convention, a gent had built an HO scale/HOn3 gauge model(s) of the tramway, north & south towers. The tiny cars were transported between the towers (which were dioramas with track, etc.) over about a 20 foot "chasm" between a couple of tables. Just an incredible thing. I believe he described this in a NG&SL a few years back. Needless to say, the model won every award they had to offer! So, yes, a working model of the Mich-Cal aerial tramway could be built...how much space do you have for one?

Woodie

Si.
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The aerial-cableway idea, could be a good thing...
...with only 1 side modelled...
...to get full/empty cars, on/off the layout; like a car float.

( Char-Wee Styleee...! )

- - - - - - -



Romance & Redwoods !  at the Mich. Cal.

:P

Si.


W C Greene
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Good idea Si, but the aerial job could really only handle 1 car at a time so the ops session might go on for a long time with just one car at a time being moved/staged. But then time isn't money in our world and the job could be filled by a new operator or one who runs trains off the rails. Might work...at that!

Woodie

Ray Dunakin
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I saw that guy's working tram model in the Gazette, first as a stand alone model and later after he incorporated it into his layout. Very cool indeed.

W C Greene
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Ray, we saw the model at an NMRA national in St. Louis(?) many years back. The dioramas were set up on tables about 10' apart or so and the little carriages went back & forth. The fellow won best of show and a bunch of other awards...as he should have. Amazing modeling.

Woodie

Si.
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Aerial Tramway !!

You must be NUTS :Crazy:

Nope ... the Mich. Cal. did it ! :old dude:



B&W from back in the day, at Pino Grande.

Si.

:java::P

Si.
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The last image is of the lumber Co. drying kilns BTW.

Si.

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Hi Guys,

Was searching for Mich-Cal info on the net and stumbled onto your site. As I was scanning through the text I saw my cable car model mentioned a couple times. Thanks for the kind words !! Wanted to let you know that its still "alive and well" after 40+ years (yipes).

Got interested in the Mich-Cal back in the early 70's. Was modeling with a couple logging fans and picked up Steve Polkinghorn's book. Saw the cable system and decided to build it in HO scale. Started out as a pair of dioramas at the time and was fortunate to win the Gold Award at the NMRA national convention in Atlanta, 1973. Its now a section of my train room with the dioramas blended into the two sides of the mountains spanning the American River. Did a writeup with pictures in the 2005 May/June & July/August Narrow Gauge & Shortline Gazette. Has also been on layout tours for NMRA and Narrow Gauge conventions.

Tried to get to the tower locations on a couple trips to California, but never succeeded. Way confusing in those hills and roads. Still on my bucket list to get up there some day.

Look forward to chatting with you guys,

Bob

W C Greene
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Howdy Bob and welcome to Freerails. Yes, I do remember your tramway...a most impressive work! And you made me remember that it was Atlanta (not St. Louis) where I saw it soooo many years ago. Don't be shy, we love photos and if you can, we have a live chat every Sunday at 9PM Central time. Just go to menu and click on chat and get ready. I know you'll love it here.

Woodie

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Bob--




Herb

BobRn3
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Thanks Woodie & Herb for the welcome.

Have lots of pics of the cable car system - just have to see which ones were in the Gazette so I don't use those. Normally offline over the weekend so will do next week.

Bob

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Hi Guys,

Uploaded some pics of the cable car model to the Gallery.  These are ones that did not appear in the NGSL Gazette.

Enjoy !!

    Bob

Si.
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Check out Bob's Gallery pics.

GREAT model of the Mich. Cal. cable !!

:moose:

Si.

W C Greene
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Yep, and I got to see it operate. The 2 sections were set up in the NMRA contest room, probably about 10 or so feet apart, and the carriage with loaded lumber car went back & forth. Just amazing and ultra cool! Needless to report, the cable way took Best of Show that year.

Woodie

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Great pictures and modeling. The question that comes up to me is, "how did they manage to get a loco to the loading side?" I think the cable system was not strong enough to hold a locomotive.

Alwin

Si.
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Hi Alwin :wave:

Not 100% on this.
Long time since I read the book.
But.
I believe the locomotives were moved in 'parts'...
...& assembled/re-assembled on the other side.

Not sure if they used the cable to do this...
...or if the 'parts' were moved by a different route.

The cable, of course, was the most efficient way of getting the lumber moved.

A very unique & interesting operation, the Mich. Cal.
May just have a browse through Polkinghorn later :bg:

I think I would have been TERRIFIED to ride the cable though ! ;)

:moose:

Si.

W C Greene
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Polkinghorn wrote that there is evidence they moved large Shays across, loaded on the cableway but no photos have been found (so far). They were probably partially dis-assembled for the ride.

Come on, Si...there is a photo of ladies and kids on the cable, what's the matter? Are you chi...chi...chicken??? Cluck cluck

Woodie

Jack M
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I joined Freerails as I was interested to see more photos of the operating HOn3 transfer cable made by BobRn3 and saw a post where they posted to the gallery. I have searched and searched and cannot find them. Can anybody be of help?
Thanks.

Jack M

Si.
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Crew heading home.


Si.
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Removing log car south tower


Si.
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Arrival in south tower.


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Almost to south tower.


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Approaching south tower.


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Approaching south tower.


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Approaching south tower.


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Enroute to south tower.


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In transit across the American River.


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Carriage close up.


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Carriage enroute.


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Carriage leaving north tower.


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Log cars loading carriage.


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Shay No.5 loading log cars.


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Loading track entrance to north tower.


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North tower forest.


Si.
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Hi Jack :wave:


Slight delay in getting the pictures here that you asked for.
You might have noticed it's been the Christmas & New Year holidays. ;)
Busy busy busy.

Bobs model is just GREAT isn't it.
Fantastic photos, I'm sure you'll agree.


:moose:


Si.


P.S. Jack, go to the My Account tab.
& under Preferences
Change the Board-Theme to 'Ultra' & Save using the button at the bottom.
You should now see the Gallery in the Menu tab.
It has not been showing correctly, in the 'Sea' & 'Simple' Board-Themes.

Jack M
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Thanks Si! Those are beautiful pictures! Followed your instructions and made the changes and now I can find the Gallery photos.
One comment about the cable way, I am puzzled on how Bob did it as the wires pulling on the towers would be quite a strain and could very easily pull the tower apart.
In reading the Pino Grande book there is mention that one drunk who missed the last cable car went across the 1500' or so long cable way by crawling across the cables!
There was at least one death on the cable way, a guy standing on the cable way was swept over the end when a load of wheel sets moved and struck him. No way would I ever want to ride on that thing!

Jack M

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Hi Jack and all,
From the photos of the model, it looks like the car cage is carried on 2 fixed cables and drawn across by a third cable. The 2 fixed cables supporting the cage would have been secured to nearby bedrock by large concrete blocks and not to the structure itself. There would have been a vertical component carried by the support towers inside each structure but the horizontal forces would be transferred to the surrounding bedrock by the concrete blocks attached to each end of each of the carrying cables. 

If one station is lower than the other then perhaps the cage could be returned to the lower station by gravity, towing the third haulage cable with it? Or there could be another cable attached to the other end of the cage with the haulage ropes rigged like a Main and Tail type incline as shown below. 
Substitute the coal skips in the diagram for the haulage cage in Bob's model. 

I hope that this explanation makes some sense, 

W C Greene
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Jack, I watched that model work at an NMRA convention about 30 or so years back. It was jaw-dropping and Bob won top honors for the effort. The towers were displayed on tables about 10 or so feet apart and the little cars went out & back. Maybe Bob can relate how he rigged it.

Woodie

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Si,

Thanks so much for reposting the pics. Saw Jack's e-mail yesterday and couldn't find them either.

Jack,

The "cables" the carriage rides on are carpet thread. They pass through small eye hooks in the front of the interior trestle/rails the carriage rests on inside each house. The cables go along the rails before exiting out the building and into the mountain. You can see this in the pics of the birds eye view of the cable houses. On one side the cables tie onto eye hooks inside the mountains. On the other side they loop around a rod and attach to the frame with turnbuckles so I can tighten/loosen them. Bob

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If any of you have back issues of the Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette, I had written a two part article on the model in the 2005 May/Jun and Jul/Aug issues. Had some history on the cable car crossing and the model.

Wanted to let you know that the model is still in good shape. Every once in a while I run the cable car back and forth just to make sure it still works. Hard to believe the model is almost 45 years old. Yipes !!!!

Bob

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Bob:

Your modeling back then is outstanding even in today's standards! I was going to build the cable way also and obtained a set of Russ Simpson's plans for the Mich. Calif. cable towers but what stopped me was that I couldn't figure out how I could keep the strain of the cables from pulling the towers apart.
What would be nice if it would be possible to take a movie of the cable way in operation and share it here on Freerails.
I have the DVD movie of the prototype in operation but the black and white film quality isn't that good but it is better than nothing!
Some years ago someone hiked to the area where the cable towers once stood and shared a few shots of what was left which wasn't that much. It is more than likely so grown over now that it would be almost impossible to find today.
Yes, it is hard to find models that still exist after almost a half century. A local modeler, Lyle Spears still has all the logging modules that he wrote about in several issues of Model Railroader back in the 1960's. I have taken several pictures of his modeling efforts over the years and every now and then when he comes over for his monthly visit he will bring a model that he had just recently completed. Awhile back I had obtained two Bachmann O scale skidders(small loading engines)for him and he made large HO scale skidders out of them. He added one feature that I have never seen on a skidder model, reels of cable labeled on the end with the wire manufacture's logo. He gave me a copy of a page out of an early lumbering magazine about cable reels and I scanned the labels, cleaned them up and printed out labels on my Alps printer in HO and O scale, the scale ones for me and the HO for Lyle.
I have always wanted to model Lyle's first logging 18" x 6' diorama and upscale it to On30 scale in an area of 2' x 8'. I have scratch built the low 18" trestle for it and am about to start on the engine house copying the Cowlitz Chehalis & Cascade's engine house that was in Chehalis, WA. Lyle made a set of plans in HO for the engine house and gave me a set. You can see Lyle's first diorama in the December 1963 issue of Model Railroader.

Jack M.

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John Garaty's diagram is exactly how the real cable system worked and the model. The south tower side of the car was pulled directly toward the tower. The north tower side was pulled by the "haul back" cable. It went through the north tower and did a 180 via two pulley towers. The cable then draped back across the valley and into the south tower. Not sure if the real cable wound around a drum and was continuous or in two separate pieces. The model uses two cables (black thread). As one reels in, the other reels out. The are oppositely wound on a single drum.

From what I recall reading, there was a 170 foot sag in the cable and the north tower was higher than the south. They used both to send the cars across letting gravity do some of the work. The loaded cars went in the "down" direction and the empty's were hauled up.

In the original 2 cable system with the steam winch, a round trip took about 15 minutes including pulling the loaded car off and putting an empty back on.

In the 4 cable system with the electric motors, a one way trip was said to be 108 seconds with the carriage going 20mph. Must have been a wild ride !!!

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Jack,

Thanks for the kind words. Was in my early 20's when I built the diorama models. Could actually see without glasses and magnifiers :)

Took some liberty building the model. Combined the 2 cable system and carriage with the 4 wire towers and track. Its not exact, but gives the feel of the real system.

Funny thing happened at a convention. Had North and South Tower signs in front of each diorama. Each morning when I came into the contest room, the signs were switched. Finally a guy came by and said I had them backwards. Turned out to be Cliff Grandt. Told me he had ridden across on the carriage. Kept the signs that way from then on.

Jack M
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I have a few old photos of the Mich. Calif. cableway plus a short video of riding it. How do I upload all of this?
Thanks.

Jack M.

Si.
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Hi Jack :wave:


Great to hear you have these photos & video.

The video is something which needs to be uploaded to 'YouTube' perhaps.

I'm not really able to advise you on how to do this.

'YouTube' obviously provide instructions on their Site, as to how to do this.

Once it has been uploaded to 'YouTube', the video can be Linked to here at Freerails.


- - - - - - -


The quickest & easiest way to upload photos to Freerails is by simply using the 'Attachment Button', at the bottom of the main Reply window.

The photos need to be 'resized' on your computer, to be 800-pixels wide, using what ever program you have for this, & must be less than 0.5 MegaBytes, which they will be at 800x--- size.

They can also be uploaded to your Members Gallery.

There are a number of different descriptions of how to do this in the 'Photo Posting' Forum, check 'em out.

If for any reason you have trouble, give us a shout in the 'Photo Posting' Forum, & we will see if we can guide you through it.

Once you know HOW, it is EASY, sometimes it takes a couple of goes to 'get it'.

If the photos don't come out right, we can always delete & re-Post them, so have a go & see.

As a last resort, you could eMail them to me at Freerails, & I could Post them for you.

Give it a go, can't wait to see them.

All the best.


:moose:


Si.

Jack M
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Si:

I having problems in figuring out how to upload photos and the Mich. Calif. video It is a stand alone video and not a UTube video.
What is your email address and I will send the pictures and video to your directly and let you upload them.
Thanks.

Jack M

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Hi Jack :wave:


The video can not be uploaded to Freerails directly.

The only practical way to get the video online, is to upload it to 'YouTube' by following their directions.


I would like to help you to Post the photos here yourself, if possible.

1. The photos need to be resized on your computer, to 800-pixels wide ... can you do this ?

2. If you have done this, uploading a photo to Freerails can be done by clicking the 'attachment button' at the bottom of the MAIN 'Reply' window...

...& selecting the 'resized' photo from where it is on your computer, eg. in 'My Documents' perhaps.

3. Once the photo is selected, just hit the Reply button.


Give it a go.


If it doesn't come out right, no worries, we can scrub it ... but chances are, you will upload it OK.

It would be great for you to understand how to Post pix as a Member.

Give it a go, see what happens.

Just click away ! ... The 'secret' is, nothing can go wrong, so just try it out !

Seriously, just go for it.

When you get 'em up here, you'll probably think ... DAMN that was easy ! ;)


:moose:


Si.

Si.
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Hi Jack :wave:

I guess you haven't figured out the photo-posting thing.

Perhaps you have been unable to 'resize' the photos before uploading maybe.

Anyhow...

...I would very much love to see your photos.

So send them & the video to me here at Freerails & I will do my best to Post them here for you.


freerails.com@gmail.com


Can't promise anything on the video, but send it anyway, I can probably get someone who is a 'YouTube' Member to upload it.

All the best.

:moose:

Si.

Si.
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Hi Jack :wave:


Do you need a hand ?


Have you got a regular Link to 'YouTube' now ?


Give us a shout here, we can just delete what ever isn't working.


Have you been able to sort out the photos as well ?


All the best.


Cheers.


:moose:


Si.

Jack M
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Si:

I sent the video and the Pino Grande photos yesterday to the address at Free Rails that you instructed me to do. I also sent a bunch of photos the same way to Woody too.
I sent the video converted from a YouTube video so that folks could save it to their computer. I have a program that allows me to convert YouTube videos. The program also grabs music out of YouTube videos and that is how I have built up my collection of 60's rock n roll music to over 2,000 files.
I also use a program called Screen Grab Pro to grab pictures from online sites and it also allows me to even grab photos from sites that have it set that their photos can't be saved. I use another easy to use program called Anxiom Pic Sizer that allows me to shrink or enlarge pictures. It also lets you to change the picture format too. There are a lot of free utility programs available online that are easy to use and do a good job too.

Jack M.

W C Greene
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Howdy Jack...I haven't received any photos from you. Did you send as a PM or to my e mail? I pretty much never mess with UTube so I wouldn't know if there was anything there. Let me know about this. Maybe we need to move this conversation to a "General" forum, this thread has kinda gone sideways. But then I am a sideways kinda guy.

Woodie

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Woodie:

I sent it to freerails.com@gmail.com like Si instructed me to do. It was an answer to your comments on Railroads In The Woods in the Books forum.

The pictures should be moved there.

Jack Matson

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  Attached are a few more pictures of the Michigan Californina Cableway. Here is a link to a short video of the cableway in operation and another short video of the Mich Cal.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S4YqjtQUic
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD4jnZ0iP9w
  Jack M.  
  

Jack M
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  I hope that the photos load OK this time, if not I give up!
  Jack M

Attachment: Tower Remains.jpg (Downloaded 18 times)

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 Here is another photo of the Mich Cal Cableway.
  Jack M

Attachment: North Cable.jpg (Downloaded 17 times)

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  North Cable foundation posts.
  Jack Matson

Attachment: North Cable Foundation Posts.jpg (Downloaded 18 times)

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Thanks for posting the pics and video links. First time I ever saw the cable car moving. It really goes!!

A while back I found this site on the Mich-Cal. Lots of great pics, but the color ones at the bottom really intrigued me. Was from a kayak trip a guy (Doug Jensen) took. Looks like they show the cable and remains of the cable car. Wonder if still there.

http://www.trainweb.org/foothill/micalmp.html

BobRn3
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Joined: Wed Dec 4th, 2013
Location: Southern, New Jersey USA
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Here's another site that gives some info on getting to the Pino Grande. I've been out there twice and have managed to get hopelessly lost just driving around the area let alone trying to get to the cable site. Some day ..... on my bucket list :)

http://www.sierranevadageotourism.org/content/pino-grande/sie716B1ED9C2CF82E4A

Jack M
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Joined: Tue Dec 27th, 2016
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Bob:
  There is another video that shows the Mich. Calf. cableway in operation. There are two tapes on Western Logging operations by Catenary Video. Volume 2 has the Mich Cal operations on it. You can preview the action on their website at
http://www.catenaryvideo.com/westcoast.html
  This segment appears at about 1:18 minutes in the tape. I purchased both tapes as they are really worth it.
  Jack Matson  Gimble43@gmail.com
  P.S. Bob, is there any way that you could shoot a video of your railroad showing the         cableway in operation?

Jack M
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Joined: Tue Dec 27th, 2016
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Bob:
  There is another video that shows the Mich. Calf. cableway in operation. There are two tapes on Western Logging operations by Catenary Video. Volume 2 has the Mich Cal operations on it. You can preview the action on their website at
http://www.catenaryvideo.com/westcoast.html
  This segment appears at about 1:18 minutes in the tape. I purchased both tapes as they are really worth it.
  Jack Matson  Gimble43@gmail.com
  P.S. Bob, is there any way that you could shoot a video of your railroad showing the         cableway in operation?


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