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Need some info on orecars
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 Posted: Sat Jan 18th, 2014 08:05 pm
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Alwin
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Hi everyone.

For a scratchbuilding / kitbashing project I wanna start I'm looking for some info on orecars. The type I want to build are these or something that look like it:
http://columbusrailroads.com/Ralston%20photos/ralston-097-1915-DM&I.JPG
I don't build a specific prototype so if it looks like these it's fine.

Questions I have are how are they operated, manually or automatic? And how does the operating mechanism work?

Any info, detailed photo or drawing is much appreciated.

Alwin

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 Posted: Sun Jan 19th, 2014 02:10 am
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Herb Kephart
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See the re-enforcing plates on the bottom channel of the car side--they have a square shaft sticking out that cranks the longitudinal bottom doors (with outside hinges ) open or closed. Once the doors were unlatched the load probably opened the doors with a vengeance, but they would have to be cranked shut

Herb

Of course, they could have been unloaded with a rotary dumper also--Search rotary car dumper by W.C.Greene.





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 Posted: Sun Jan 19th, 2014 11:59 am
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Bernd
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No need to scratch build.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/171205519201?lpid=82

Unless your not in HO.

Bernd

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 Posted: Sun Jan 19th, 2014 08:57 pm
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Alwin
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Thanks for the reaction guys.

Bernd: I've got a kit from Tichy train group for two wooden ore cars but the problem is that the chute of my ore bin is a bit too low. Or the cars are too high L:

Herb: thanks for the explanation but I have a few more questions.
I shall be a bit more specific this time.



By the number 1 there is a rod, is it part of the brake mechanism or part of the door operating mechanism?
By 2 I see a chain. Is it a connection between the two square shafts? So that they are operated simultaneously?
There is another rod/shaft by 3. Is that only to release the doors or (also) to shut them.
The lever by 4. I have no idea where that is for.

Sorry for all these rookie questions. I hope you guys will help me out.  :bow:

Alwin

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 Posted: Sun Jan 19th, 2014 09:23 pm
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Bernd
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Alwin wrote: Thanks for the reaction guys.

Bernd: I've got a kit from Tichy train group for two wooden ore cars but the problem is that the chute of my ore bin is a bit too low. Or the cars are too high L:

Herb: thanks for the explanation but I have a few more questions.
I shall be a bit more specific this time.



By the number 1 there is a rod, is it part of the brake mechanism or part of the door operating mechanism?
By 2 I see a chain. Is it a connection between the two square shafts? So that they are operated simultaneously?
There is another rod/shaft by 3. Is that only to release the doors or (also) to shut them.
The lever by 4. I have no idea where that is for.

Sorry for all these rookie questions. I hope you guys will help me out.  :bow:

Alwin




Lever 4 is for uncoupling. If you go back to your link to the picture and get a bigger view you'll see it says "lift up". From what it looks like it will lift the bar that's attached to the coupler.

#1 is the brake rod from the brake cylinder to activate the brakes at the other end of the car. Since there is no room under the car, plus the drop doors might hit the brake gear it is run up inside the car.

Now for 2 & 3. From what I can see it is for opening and closing the drop doors.

The model ore cars were based on this prototypes. They did not include all that was detail that is on the prototype.

Here's a pic to help visualize what I said.



Sorry for the big picture.

Bernd

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 Posted: Sun Jan 19th, 2014 09:31 pm
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jtrain
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The ore cars you're looking at would be manually operated for unloading, but would be loaded by heavy machinery.

The ore car you are looking at modeling would be used in Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan for hauling Iron Ore, T aconite pellets and Copper ore, not to mention other minerals that could be put into a pellet form.

These ore cars would be loaded by heavy machinery at the pit mine, and would be unloaded by people walking down the walkways on top of large ore docks.

The docks at Duluth are 4 tracks wide and the cars would be accessed via walkways on the side of the car closest to the dock's edge. So chains I guess would be used to operate the hatches simultaneously if that answers your question for #2

The lever I can't say for sure about #1 and #3.

#4 is an uncoupling lever that attaches to the coupler. Since the space between the rails was open to allow ore pellets to drop into the bins beneath the track, there would be no way to walk between the cars. That also explains why the hydraulic connection hose is halfway up the car instead of down by the coupler where it is usually placed.

So #1, I have no idea; #2 would likely be a chain to operate either the dumping mechanism or for some other mechanical purpose; #3 I have no idea either but being that low on the car and towards the center I'd say it has something to do with the dumping mechanism; and #4 is the coupler lever to allow the train crew to operate the coupler from the side of the train rather than in between the cars which is dangerous.

Normally I'd recommend going to a museum that has these cars, but seeing you're in the Netherlands, that probably isn't an option.

I will recommend you ask these guys:
http://www.lsrm.org/Home/contact.html

They are the Lake Superior Railway Museum and the ore cars are literally blocks away from their headquarters in downtown Duluth so i'm sure someone knows a lot about these cars.

And also, just so you know, these aren't rookie questions; these ore cars were unique in every way from almost any other car type built. I'd personally model Duluth, except that to acquire the number of ore cars needed is way beyond my budget, even in HO scale. Think about it, even in a small bedroom layout I'd still need 50-100 cars just to replicate operations even remotely prototypical.

--James:java:

Last edited on Sun Jan 19th, 2014 09:32 pm by jtrain



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 Posted: Mon Jan 20th, 2014 08:45 am
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Alwin
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Bernd an d James - thanks for he extra info.

I've send a message to the Lake Superior Railway Museum. Hope they can send me some more photo's or info.

Alwin

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 Posted: Mon Jan 20th, 2014 05:26 pm
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Herb Kephart
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Alwin


 I think that you are correct in you assumption that the two square shafts are connected together with the chain. I erred, no doubt, in saying that the shafts were to open and close the doors. Close, probably yes, but the doors would open from their own weight no doubt. See the round sprocket between the second wheelset from the left in Bernds enlarged view? Shaft 3 connects it to another one like it at the other end of the doors, I'll bet, and they both have something to do with closing and/or locking the doors.


Herb



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 Posted: Mon Jan 20th, 2014 07:24 pm
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RDye
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Please keep us posted on what you find out from the museum.

Big Red Line has (or had) a number of these style of cars for sand service in southern Missouri and northern Arkansas.



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 Posted: Mon Jan 20th, 2014 08:00 pm
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Bernd
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Here you go. A link to the Ralston Car Company.

http://www.columbusrailroads.com/new/?menu=06Industry&submenu=10Ralston_Steel_Car_Co

Take special note of what is called a drop bottom gondola. I have a feeling that is exactly how the hopper car worked. The bottom would drop when unlatched and the cranks were used to close the hopper doors again.

If you do a Google search you get many hits on this company with lots of nice pictures.

Bernd

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