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ZERO Clearance Trolley Line - Lisbon City Center
 Moderated by: Herb Kephart Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  Next Page Last Page  
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 Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2014 04:10 am
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Ray Dunakin
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Cool little incline tram, too bad it's been trashed by &#@ taggers.



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 Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2014 04:26 am
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Bill Fornshell
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The photo on page one of this thread is from what they call Route 28:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPxos2UT8EU

This short video is about the incline:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-a4F_x8WwY

Last edited on Mon Apr 7th, 2014 04:33 am by Bill Fornshell

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 Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2014 09:59 am
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Helmut
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It's surprising how well-mannered car drivers and pedestrians behave in tight spots. I have my almost daily comparison in Istanbul near Sirkeci Station, where everybody seems to be concerned about delaying the trams whenever they attempt to pass.



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 Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2014 03:43 pm
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Herb Kephart
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Great videos, Bill--thanks!

OK now you guys who figure that 'lectric overhead is the way to go for the real thing--what did you notice about the incline cars? Yes they had two pantographs--most likely they are three phase power--and yes they have an extra, offset rail, which is probably an extra form of brakeing (shoe jams into slot).

But there is something else, VERY unusual!

Look again at the second video--particularly 1:29 to 1:35

The pantographs have wheels! Wonder how they can keep them on the wire, because the pantographs can't move sideways (too much mass for the wire to move) almost impossible that the wire is hung with enough accuracy to line up with the wheel in a curve, and if the wheels slide sideways on the horizontal top bar, how do they maneuver them to align with the wire when putting the pan up?

Conspiring minds want to know!

Herb



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 Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2014 04:49 pm
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Helmut
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@Herb
Have a look here. The first scene shows the incline and how the trolleys move sideways along their axle...
Third rail? Ever heard of Frisco cable tram?

Last edited on Mon Apr 7th, 2014 04:50 pm by Helmut



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 Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2014 08:41 pm
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Salada
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Thanks for your YouTube link Bill; your first link is definitely of Route 28.

Lisbon has three relatively unusual public transport systems : electric NG trams, ascensores & elevadores.

For ascensore, read elevator (for our US friends), see photo below :






- an ascensore is a vertical, electrically hoisted passenger car giving access to the streets higher up.


An elevadore is perhaps more widely known as a funicular, as seen on Bill's video links. Funiculars are always cable hauled.

I am not entirely certain but I believe the Lisbon funiculars are standard funiculars i.e.
cable hauled via the "slot" between the rails (it is not a 3rd rail).

Herb: I'm sure they are not 3 phase (the traction system is cable) but why do they need a 2 pole 'pantograph' ?. I don't know. Communication with the control/winding cabin crew ?.

Non si sa as they say.

Regards                                              Michael

ps: I would call the SF system a cable hauled tram (US streetcar ?) - some is steep eneough to be similar to a funicular but other sections are fairly level.
The essential difference is that the SF system works via an endless, constantly running, cable with each car having a cable grabber, or clutch.
A  funicula is more 'self-balancing' - the two cars are attached to either end of a length of haulage cable that runs between them via a driving wheel/brake/traction motor at the summit. As one car descends it helps to raise the ascending car - very "green" & energy efficient, long before anyone invented "global warming".

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 Posted: Wed Apr 9th, 2014 05:14 pm
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Helmut
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@Michael
Shame on me, yes the Lavra system is a funicular with two balanced cars. Interesting to note that in 1875 they demonstrated this by building an underground line in Istanbul ( my 2nd hometown ), also powered by two steam winders at first. This set off a full-fledged funicular rage in all the European capitals.
Of course you can run 3-phase AC operation with two wires and the rails as ground. FS ( You should know well, eh? ) had such a system in operation from 1902 -1976.



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 Posted: Wed Apr 9th, 2014 07:59 pm
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Salada
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Hello Helmut,

Were FS the only people to try the 2 pole wires & ground 3 phase ?. I don't know of anywhere else.

For our US friends, FS = Ferrovie dello Stato (Italian State Railways).

Regards                 Michael

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 Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2014 01:32 am
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Herb Kephart
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OK then, the two overhead wires must be power for car lighting.

Realize now that those little wheels running rather loose on a small diameter shaft would cause a spectacular show with traction current.

Herb



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 Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2014 04:14 am
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Kitbash0n30
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The things ya learn around here!



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