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- New Battery Technologies - What Do We Need ? -
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 Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2014 04:59 pm
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mwiz64
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It's only about $10 more Helmut and it comes with a rechargeable battery and charger for it. If you say it's better at rejecting interference, then I'm with you on the recommendation.



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 Posted: Sat Apr 12th, 2014 06:19 am
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Pete Steinmetz
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NathanO wrote:
When it comes to batteries, which is what I thought the thread was supposed to be about, to me the most important part is safety. Many 'modern' batteries tend to overheat and catch fire. Others start to loose the ability to get a full charge in a short time.

Price per useable power would be high on my list as well as weight and volume per useable power.

Nathan


Li Po batteries shouldn't get hot. I hear stories about them catching fire. I have never seen one catch fire live. Unless the operator is doing something wrong, they should be perfectly safe.

The guys that have problems are the flying guys. They abuse the batteries, then poof. Or as it is known in the battery industry, "Rapid Disassembly" LOL



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 Posted: Thu Jan 29th, 2015 02:02 am
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dan3192
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I thought it would be appropriate to post here information about a battery type I'm using for HO which has a high energy density, and which may be well suited for several other applications. It is the Panasonic NCR18650B rated at 3.7V and 3,400mAh. The 18mm battery diameter allows use in wide bodied diesels and most hood type diesels. Batteries with undervoltage and overcharge protection are also available.

I'm using two of these in series in a combine car to power a BLI Hudson 4-6-4 steam engine. The engine draws approx. 150 mA at 10-12V, which is medium-high speed. A step-up voltage regulator boosts battery voltage from 7.4V to 12V. The engine is equipped with a QSI sound decoder and DelTang Rx61x receiver/electronic speed controller. 

Rercent testing showed the batteries at 3.95V after an approx. 4 hour run with the Hudson engine pulling 8 Bachmann pasenger cars around a large modular layout at an average speed of about 60 smph. I found a performance curve for this battery which indicates a relatively long run can be achieved before recharging is required.

I'm posting this to alleviate fears about batteries being the weak link for battery powered, radio controlled motive power. I think we are past this point, especially where small scale operation is involved. I hope to see AA and AAA versions for some of the smaller models I want to convert. See the DelTang topic for more information.

The performance curve is shown below. 

Dan


 

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 Posted: Thu Jan 29th, 2015 06:01 am
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Pete Steinmetz
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Dan:

Thanks for posting the info about this Lithium Ion cell from Panasonic. You are very lucky to have the space to use 2 18650 cells plus a voltage booster.

Most of us don't have that kind of space so we must use much smaller batteries of the Lithium Polymer variety. My sweet spot for size and capacity is 240mAh. That's a far cry from your 3200mAh cells.

Lithium Ion cells are only made in certain sizes. Lithium Polymer can be made in almost all possible combinations of width, length, and height. Sizes are capacity dependent.

I would love to be able to use 18650 cells from a quality manufacturer like Panasonic. Instead, those of us using Lithium Polymer have to use cells from unknown manufacturers. Some cells are of good quality and some cells aren't. There is no real way to tell until they are used.

Plus, no Lithium Polymer vendor wants to reveal the actual factory manufacturing the cells. Some vendors say they have a factory when they are only having a real factory put their name on the cell.

Pete Steinmetz



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 Posted: Thu Jan 29th, 2015 08:18 am
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Tony Walsham
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I cannot imagine any reputable factory putting the name to a non genuine product.
Fakes are an unfortunate reality in this industry. Just like fake Spektrum RX's were until they were stamped out.
Caveat Emptor.



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 Posted: Thu Jan 29th, 2015 08:26 am
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Tramcar Trev
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mwiz64 wrote:
If I wanted to try R/C on an Fn3 scale train and I didn't want to break the bank, I'd just buy what any R/C car guy would need to buy. Here is an example of a cheap easy system that you could install in a tender or following car.

Radio:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10608__Hobby_King_GT_2_2_4Ghz_2Ch_Tx_Rx.html
Speed Control:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__32025__HobbyKing_X_Car_45A_Brushed_Car_ESC.html
Battery:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__6308__ZIPPY_Flightmax_1300mAh_3S1P_20C.html
Charger:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__22297__Hobbyking_ECO_SIX_80W_6A_2_6S_Battery_Balance_Charger_AC_DC_w_PSU.html

How does it work? Simple, plug the controller to the radio receiver. Connect the battery to the controller... might need to solder up a connector on the controller side. Connect the controller leads to the motor terminals. Again, you might want to solder up a connector for this. Id use the connector between the battery and the controller as an on/off switch on the loco but you can wire in a switch, if you like. Now turn on the radio and loco and go play. How long would this installation take me....? Maybe an hour at most and I haven even spent $100 total... including the charger.

I concur completely.

I bought enough R/C gear to control 6 of my trams for just a tad over AU$100. Only 1 Tx but 6 Rx, 6 ESC's.
In fact buying the expensive R/C stuff can give you problems when "binding" the Rx to the Tx so stay away from sets with LCD displays etc.... I've even tried the really cheap speed controls via eBay and they handle my line voltage of 13.8 quite well. If they were running at 10amps maybe they would fizz but all seem to be happy at 14V, 2A and cost nothing....

R/C for trams goes back to the 1950's as the pic clearly shows.

Attachment: 1296 @ La Perouse loop..jpg (Downloaded 78 times)



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 Posted: Thu Jan 29th, 2015 08:49 am
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davecttr
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I have found through experience that hobby battery capacities can vary by at least 20%, not good when you are trying to make a pack with balanced discharge!.

So the answer is a single battery with voltage regulator and one of those panasonics would be good, except it won't fit. There appears to be a smaller 2000mAh version which is 50mm long (NCR1850) which is a possibility. Panasonic do make a large range of prismatic batteries, none of which would fit in my loco tenders.

Their high capacity batteries do seem to use a different technology as about twice as much energy is being squeezed into the same volume. It would be good if they made a 25x50x12mm 'square' battery.



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 Posted: Thu Jan 29th, 2015 07:05 pm
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NevadaBlue
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OK, I have a question about charging. I want cheap and easy. I'm using 2 LiPo batteries in my loco build and do not want to take them out to charge. I also don't care about balancing them. The batteries are dirt cheap and if one dies, oh well.

So, I have the two batteries in series and want to use a JST 2 wire plug set for charging. Can I use (and where do I find) a simple 7.2 volt LiPo charger?



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 Posted: Thu Jan 29th, 2015 09:18 pm
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fallen
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Ken, I suggest you should have a balance charger. Otherwise the batteries may get damaged, one will likely be overcharged eventually, and damage the loco in the process. This is because the LiPos, unlike the NiCad batteries most people are familiar with, can build up imbalances due to different internal leakage currents over several charge/discharge cycles and eventually one will get overcharged an fail, perhaps with a bang.

I have a two cell setup that I charge with a £10 balance charger using an ordinary servo plug as connector for the three wires you need for this. The charger is no more expensive than a single cell charger and the connector no more complicated than a two wire one to use.

It's really not worth the risk to not use a balance charger.

Frank

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 Posted: Thu Jan 29th, 2015 11:08 pm
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Tramcar Trev
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NevadaBlue wrote:
OK, I have a question about charging. I want cheap and easy. I'm using 2 LiPo batteries in my loco build and do not want to take them out to charge. I also don't care about balancing them. The batteries are dirt cheap and if one dies, oh well.

So, I have the two batteries in series and want to use a JST 2 wire plug set for charging. Can I use (and where do I find) a simple 7.2 volt LiPo charger?


This one looks good and has a US plug....
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Balance-Charger-Esky-2S-3S-Cells-7-4v-11-1v-Li-Po-Battery-Power-Adapter-AC-to-DC-/221308419291?pt=AU_Toys_Hobbies_Radio_Controlled_Vehicles&hash=item3387027cdb



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