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Alwin
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I'm thinking of building a small diorama with a pole road on it. There is one big problem, where can I found the required wheels or how to make them?

For an example ot he wheels I mean see in this topic the photo Brian posted from the Fordson tractor at the bottom of the page.
http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=5773&forum_id=11

All the wheels I've seen on this kind of railtractors have spoked wheels.
I have thought of using model car wheels but I didn't find any with the right size and a good looking spoking pattern.
An other idea is using model pulley. I can find them with the right size but they aren't spoked.

Making them myself? I have no idea how to do that. I don't have a lathe or a milling machine and want to keep the costs low.


Any help ans suggestions are welcome. I want to build something in O scale.

Alwin

Last edited on Sat May 3rd, 2014 10:06 pm by Alwin

pipopak
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As I assume you are going to build a static model, get a spoked wheel that looks right and build the rest out of epoxy or a usable diameter tube and turn them down in a powered drill. Jose.

oztrainz
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Hi Alwin,
There were several pole road locomotives that had pressed steel disc wheels that were plain steel without the ribbed pressings as shown on the NZ Railway's Fordson. I have seen photos of them, but can't find any on the web at present.

Have a look here for a way to do a spoked wheel from styrene http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=2074.135

This link could also be used to fabricate the pressed webs as shown on the NZ Railways Fordson - just don't drill out the middle layer. I wouldn't let the "correct" size of the wheels worry you too much. For these outfits, quite often there was no "correct" size as the same machine may have had different sized wheels as either things "wore out" or "that didn't work, but we have these other bits that might work"

mabloodhound
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This one that Ray posted looks like the wheels could be made easy enough from styrene.



The harder part will be making the rims but the spokes could be sheet styrene.   Not sure of how strong they would be if you plan on powering it up.

Alwin
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Hi all. Thanks for the suggestions. Got not much time at the moment but I gonna try some ideas soon.

John (oztrains), if you find some photo's of loco's with plain steel wheels then I would like to see them.

Alwin

oztrainz
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Hi Alwin,
FOUND SOME!!!
http://www.trainweb.org/loggingz/fordsons.html
and I wasn't looking all that hard ;)
Maybe not pole road specifically, but they should give you some more inspiration hopefully

oztrainz
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Hi Alwin,
plain disc with holes -
http://www.trainweb.org/loggingz/price.html :bg:

oztrainz
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Hi all,
And another Kiwi
http://www.trainweb.org/loggingz/union.html

Alwin
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Great links John, thanks.

Alwin

Helmut
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The Kiwis had a lot of those locos / tractors that because of their wide wheel thread were able to negotiate both timber and steel rails. The flange depth was standard.

mwiz64
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Best bet.... Find a friend that is a hobby machinist and get him to make you some rims.

Alwin
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Maybe I found an other option. Couple two spoked railway wheels front to front together. There are also pole road loco's with wheels that have a more flat inner part instead of the round form.

Only thing is where to find these wheels for a reasonable price. With this method I need many of them. Already 8 for the tractor itself, and I want also a little log car behind it. Time for some more googling :hyp:.

Alwin

pipopak
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For a static model you can make a master and then make resin copies. Jose.

Alwin
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Jose, sorry for the delay. It is ment to be a static model at first. Maybe I gonna motorize it later with RC to control it. Why can´t I use resin copies for a motorized version. Is it not strong enough?

Thanks, Alwin.

pipopak
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Why can´t I use resin copies for a motorized version. Is it not strong enough?
Resin is somewhat brittle. I don't think it will last in a powered model. Jose.

Herb Kephart
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Resin will work, if it is bonded to a metal rim/flange

One of the British manufactures makes loco drivers that way, and because of the less time involved in making a metal master, and lower cost to make the wheels, they are able to offer quite a variety of  sizes and number of spokes. Counterweights are taken care of with an arc shaped piece of metal or styrene, epoxied on by the modeler.

Herb

Alwin
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Herb, the rim is the problem. I have tried a few things today to make a rim but it didn't work well. I have asked someone what the price is to mill the wheels for me. It is just a side project so costs must be low otherwise I don't continue with it.

Thanks for the help so far.

Alwin

tebee
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You could always 3-d print them.

These are some I did in 9mm gauge (9.6 mm in diameter)



They are not as good runners as metal wheels, but work as well as most plastic one do - cost if you do a few is less than $1 an axle and the can be easily made in any size, gauge or type.

with a skip chassis



and in some trucks







Tom

Alwin
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Tom, that are some great looking wheels and trucks.

I've been thinking of 3d printing but have no experience with that. Do you have a 3d printer yourself?

The 3d drawing is not the problem but the translation to G-code is something I have never done before.

Alwin

tebee
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No I just use Shapeways - I like the nylon material(WSF)for things that need mechanical strength and machines that use it are silly prices.

It comes white, but I dye it a base rust color with Rit fabric dyes.

Shapeways is fairly cheap if you put a decent number of things together rather than just ordering one at a time.

You just save your model as an STL file from whatever package you are using.

Tom

W C Greene
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Yep, 3D printing would be a way to make the pole loco wheels but I would (if I was building a model) make the wheels from nickel silver so the treads would be polished like they would have been running on peeled log track. Maybe steel also, but something that could look like metal. Now, who is going to build one of these beasts? Don't be looking at me...I am just a troublemaker.

Woodie

Alwin
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Designed and ordered some wheels today. I let them 3D printing. For the metal look I can use an metal color paint. Never used that before so I don't know if the looks of the paint are reasonable but we'll see.

Wheels for the tractor:



It looks like the right flange is higher but its not. Don't know why it showed up that way.

And a bit different design for some carwheels. These are also a bit smaller in diameter. I ordered 8 of them for 2 cars with 2 axles.




It can take two weeks before I have them so no update soon.

Alwin

Alwin
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Recieved a mail from shapeways. They couldn't print this designs. It does not meet the required minimum wall thickness.
It has to be minimum 0.7mm (about 0.03"). The flanges ends in a thickness of zero, the spokes have a thickness of 0.5mm (0.02").

I'm not sure if I can change the design such that it is workable for a 3D printer.

Alwin

tebee
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What scale are you doing these in?

The tapering off at the edge should not be a problem, I have many things that do this, though you do have to be aware it may end up slightly smaller than intended if you do this.

Tom

Last edited on Fri May 30th, 2014 11:11 pm by tebee

Alwin
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Hi Tom,

Thanks for your reaction.
It's gonna be O scale. I thought the edges would also be a problem but if not than I only have to change the spokes. I think I can live with that. Some 3D designing time again.

Alwin

Last edited on Fri May 30th, 2014 10:54 pm by Alwin

mabloodhound
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Yup, the spokes wold be the reason for the reject....unless you go to a different material, like FUD which allows a thinner wall.   I hope you combined these in an array so you don't have to pay for each one separately.

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Alwin,

I've been away travelling for a month so I'm not up to date with the Freerails news.
Have you not got access to a lathe ? A round nose tool would form your tread shape in brass, steel etc, then solder in the spokes.

Regards                          Michael

Alwin
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@ Dave: I could go for a other material but that's also more expensive. I don't want to spent much money on this so I redesign the wheels with some thicker spokes. The array is a good one, to be honest I haven't done that the first time but I can do that now.

@ Michael: I don't know anyone with a lathe. I asked someone I found on the net who offer to mill things. But he wouldn't / couldn't make them. I send him the design with the spokes so that is not easy to make however he had a cnc milling and lathe machine. I never worked with those but I think those machine could make something like this.

Alwin

pipopak
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What about lost-wax castings?. Jose.

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Alwin,

Having looked more closely at some (poorish quality) photos of pole track wheels I think a lathe would not be much use. I can see several severe machining problems if trying to use a standard, non CMC, machine. It could be done but it would take a wholly ridiculous amount of time per single wheel. Sorry, no good news.

Regards              Michael

Herb Kephart
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Alwin

Michael is dead right. I was looking at making some and the fact that the spoke follows the inner rim shape means CNC  mill-- two operations--and with the curved spoke the program would have to be mirrored for the second side, and a nest made to hold the part in relation to the first side--then carefully cut the concave in the rim with a lathe (again with a nest).

I think that Jose is correct--lost wax would be the most practical.

Herb

Alwin
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Thanks for the comments everyone. I did some research on the net about lost wax castings. I will go anyway for 3D printing. I have to change my design a bit but that method is easier and cheaper, at least for me, I don't got any of the tools and materials needed for lost wax castings.

Alwin

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Hi Alwin,
I assume I might be too late from your last post.
I would suggest you locate a 3D printing service bureau that will print these on a 3D systems Viper Si2 in high resolution mode (.003" diameter beam and 0.002" layer thicknesses) should be able to yield 0.020" thick walls & thinner edges using Accura Clearvue or Somos watershed resins..or similar)
Another option may be to find a source for Envisiontec's Micro printer. I believe the resolution may be even higher.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KO6XMLvgJQ

For a static model, either printer;s materials should suffice but for a powered model you will definitely need to go to investment casting.  Jewelery foundries may be a good source location.
 

Alwin
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Hi Gary,

It's not too late but this project is on a hold for now.
I keep your advice in mind. Thank you.

Alwin

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A nice photo from Google Images, of geared loco pole road wheels close up.  :thumb:


:java::mex::dt:


Si.


oztrainz
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Hi Alwin,
An off-the-wall suggestion.

If you haven't got your wheels yet can I suggest taking a look in the ship modelling area for capstan drums? These have a concave radiused outer edge that could be mated to dowels with a "close enough" matching diameter as rails. They could be available in a range of diameters that could be sutable for what you want.

Something like those at the bottom of the following link
https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/amati_capstans.html


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