Freerails Home 
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register
Freerails > Model Railroad Forums > Large Scale > Concept Plans for Fn3

Freerails IS ACCEPTING new Members ... To join Freerails ... See how to Register as a Member in the 'Joining Freerails' Forum

Concept Plans for Fn3
 Moderated by: . Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  
New Topic Reply Printer Friendly
 Rating:  Rating
AuthorPost
 Posted: Wed Apr 8th, 2015 06:53 am
  PMQuoteReply
1st Post
jtrain
Registered


Joined: Sun May 27th, 2012
Location: Missoula, Montana USA
Posts: 1006
Status: 
Offline
Recently a topic about track planning got me thinking again about Fn3 (1:20.3 scale on 45mm track) trains and their large size. Last year I made a vain attempt to build my own layout for transporting between shows for Fn3. The problem simply is that these trains were built for the outdoor modeler, where their size = durability. Indoors, large size = massively large trains in a tight space.

While most Bachmann 1:20.3 scale trains will handle something less than an 8ft diameter curve, the reality is that these trains just don't look good unless they're on a much wider turn, especially the larger engines like the 3 truck shay or the 2-6-6-2T engine. So when planning an indoor layout, what I learned is that unless you're filling a garage with a train layout, you have to plan for smaller trains.

So then, fitting a layout into a room will have some problems, but nothing that can't be overcome. In the end, the only odd looking aspect of an indoor layout will be overhang, but overhang is less apparent when viewed from inside the turn rather than outside. Combine that with the need for a large radius, and a walk-in or shelf design seems to be the best option. And that is what I'll be going for with these concept drawings.

Next I need to establish room size. Typical room dimensions, excluding closets, for houses in the US are 7x10, 9x10, 9x11, 10x10, 10x11, 10x12, 11x12, 12x12, 11x14, 12x14, 14x14, 12x16, 14x16, and 16x16.

Since both of my parents are former real estate agents, I've spent good amounts of time looking at houses and overall the average size room is 10x12, so that's what I'm using as a benchmark room size. The specific room dimensions usually end up being 9'7" by 11'7" due to the paint, sheetrock, and the thickness of the studs in the walls (10x12 is the measurement from stud centers).

Okay, now with the technical stuff out of the way, time to start thinking up concepts for Fn3 railroads. These in no way should be considered as serious track plans, but rather as general ideas. The plans will not be to scale, because I'll using Microsoft Paint, but they will be in proportion. That being said, I doubt this will inspire any creative thoughts but I hope that these plans can show you don't need small scales to have fun in a small space, even if they are just crude drawings and concepts.

I should also mention, if anyone has an idea that they would like me to draw up on Microsoft Paint, of if someone has a track plan or drawing for Fn3 or any G scale indoor layouts, please feel free to add them in, no need to even ask permission because if there's one thing I know freerail members like, it's track plans and concepts.

--James:java:



____________________
James W.

New Blog (permanent this time)

blackhillsrr.blogspot.com
Back To Top

 Posted: Wed Apr 8th, 2015 07:06 am
  PMQuoteReply
2nd Post
jtrain
Registered


Joined: Sun May 27th, 2012
Location: Missoula, Montana USA
Posts: 1006
Status: 
Offline
I'll kick things off here with a concept plan for a 10 x 12 layout. For this one I was thinking along the lines of people who want to operate moguls, tenwheelers, maybe a consolidation or a shay.

I'm 85% sure you could make something similar to this concept plan with a 32" minimum radius and #4 turnouts, and I'm about 80% certain mid-size locomotives would run fine on such a layout.

The red bar along the side is the door, which I 'measured' out to 32", a standard door width, and the door is located in a common spot along the 10 foot wall in the corner with about 8" of space between the door frame and the wall. that will leave enough space of a narrow shelf and a spur track, maybe an interchange or fiddle track.

In order to have continuous running in a 10x12 room, you need to have a duck-under or a lift out section. The tunnel idea would be great for a duck-under, but a bridge has been proven on many layouts to work well for lift out sections. The shelf along the bottom of the layout would need to support 3 tracks wide comfortably, which for Fn3 is about 24" deep. 16" seems to work for 2 tracks wide, and 12" will support 1 track and some scenery. Absolute minimum shelf width for Fn3 will always be 8", 10" on a sharp curve.



Overall, if this layout were to be built, I think it would be a good balance between practicality and creativity with enough room for some scenery. Put a backdrop along the walls and it would look pretty good. Again, I'm going to say that being about 80% certain of my estimates. That's the rule I've developed for digital track plans, if I'm 8% certain, it's put into the plan, if I'm more skeptical than that, I leave it out.

Like I said, this is more like a concept of what a track-plan could look like, but it will never pass for a good track-plan

--James:java:



____________________
James W.

New Blog (permanent this time)

blackhillsrr.blogspot.com
Back To Top

 Posted: Wed Apr 8th, 2015 08:27 am
  PMQuoteReply
3rd Post
jtrain
Registered


Joined: Sun May 27th, 2012
Location: Missoula, Montana USA
Posts: 1006
Status: 
Offline
So then, what if you want small locos on a small layout in a small room? Typically, the smallest bedroom you'll find in the US is 7x10 feet. To fit a continuous run in HO scale would be a challenge, but if you have small locomotives like 0-4-0's, 0-6-0's, or a 2-4-2, or diesel critters, you've got a good potential for a small mining railroad.

While I'm not that well rehearsed in Southwest mining practices, I do know there have been a fair number of narrow gauge railroads ranging from 20" to 42" gauge, 3 foot gauge falls right in the middle and like the rest of the country, was quite popular for mining as well as logging operations.

So, even if you have a 7x10 room, it's my belief it's not entirely impossible to have a Fn3 layout. Bachmann porters and their 2-4-2 Lyn models will easily navigate 24" radius track, and will look good doing it. So this concept uses the southwest approach of tying together several mines with a small railroad that transfer's the ore to trucks or to standard gauge trains. For very small engines, a 14 inch turntable and a small roundhouse would be plenty for engine facilities. A 3 track main yard and then a mainline that wraps around the walls of the room maximizes run time along with car capacity. 14-20 4 wheel mining cars would be plenty of traffic for the line, about half would be able to haul ore, and the other half would consist of flat cars, gons, and maybe even a short box car.

Here's the track plan:



Just like the previous plan, this concept isn't to scale, but is proportional to itself and can justly serve as a rough estimate to what would work in this size room.

--James:java:



____________________
James W.

New Blog (permanent this time)

blackhillsrr.blogspot.com
Back To Top

 Posted: Wed Apr 8th, 2015 03:28 pm
  PMQuoteReply
4th Post
Herb Kephart
Moderator


Joined: Thu Jul 19th, 2007
Location: Glen Mills, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 6017
Status: 
Offline
James

A noble, worthwhile effort, I look forward to more.

One other constraint with large scales is the inability to have diverse customers and sources--without having them within ''walking distance'' of one another. This can, to some extent be mitigated by ''off scene'' with either---or both. I find this constricting even with 1/48, and better than 80 linear foot of ''run''

Other than this, you are pretty much stuck with a single-product line--mine to smelter, product to port etc.

I sometimes, when half-awake (90% of the time it seems like anymore) dream of large sweeping curves thru the Appalachian tree covered mountains, with 70 car trains of loaded hoppers, pulled by box cab, side rod drive electrics. This certainly would qualify as a single product line--but to be convincing (to me, any way) would require about 400 square ft of room space--in--dare I say it---n scale. (highly impractical for a single person if from only the tree aspect)

So I eagerly look forward to more from you---and others-- on the subject.

Herb



____________________
Fix it again, Mr Gates--it still works!"
Back To Top

 Posted: Wed Apr 8th, 2015 07:39 pm
  PMQuoteReply
5th Post
jtrain
Registered


Joined: Sun May 27th, 2012
Location: Missoula, Montana USA
Posts: 1006
Status: 
Offline
Yes Herb, the larger the scale used, the harder it is to get model large scenery in a small space. However, a good backdrop and some careful planning would minimize the size disadvantage.

Most certainly, no one will be able to model a large length of mainline or multiple industries in G scale, but if you maximize the run time and provide separate scenes, the apparent 'walking distance' disappears. Just for you herb, here's a concept I drew up just this morning. While 17 x 20 feets is pushing it for a "room size" layout, it's 60 square feet less than the 400 you outlined for N scale. This concept uses a twice around and a series of tunnels to break up the feeling that there are two parallel tracks. Instead there is a 'high line' and a 'low line' so to speak. While you'll never get a 70 car train on this layout (70 40ft cars in 1/29th scale would be 96 feet long, and 100 feet with the engines) 20 car trains would be possible and the short run length would be less apparent with the trains entering and exiting tunnels every few feet.

The peninsula is divided in half with a backdrop down the center, the upper track serves a coal mine, a fairly large one too, and the lower track can serve a small town. Staging is hidden along the bottom of the image on the upper track. Since the grade slopes downward, the cars could be unhooked and allowed to roll into the siding where they would stay. The wall to the right and the lower wall would be where the tracks change elevation. With about 40 feet or run, and 10" separation (plenty for 1/29th or 1/32 scale) the grades would be about 2.2% (10 inches elevation / 480 inches or run or 40 feet).

The overall mainline run would be around 140 ft and that's about as much as you could safely pack into 2foot wide shelves. But using the peninsula to break that run up, the apparent run length is increased. I could only imagine what you would do with this space if you were modeling in N scale, you could model an entire short line in that space, or a branch from a major railroad. But if you want high detail, HO, S, O, and G scale is the way to go. In the end it's all a balancing act between what is ideal and what is practical.

Here's the concept plan:



--James:java:



____________________
James W.

New Blog (permanent this time)

blackhillsrr.blogspot.com
Back To Top

 Posted: Thu Apr 9th, 2015 01:50 pm
  PMQuoteReply
6th Post
Herb Kephart
Moderator


Joined: Thu Jul 19th, 2007
Location: Glen Mills, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 6017
Status: 
Offline
Given the constraints, good job!

A peninsula --if there is room for one, is always a good idea, as it gives more ''miles'' of trackage, but more importantly visually breaks the ability to see the whole room in one glance.

IF the room is large enough.

BTW--the curve in the far upper right corner, if drawn in proportion, would need quite a lot more benchwork---but still do-able.

Again--well done----keep going!

Herb



____________________
Fix it again, Mr Gates--it still works!"
Back To Top

 Posted: Thu Apr 9th, 2015 02:10 pm
  PMQuoteReply
7th Post
Si.
Moderator


Joined: Thu Feb 23rd, 2012
Location: London
Posts: 5282
Status: 
Offline
Hi James.

Nice track-plans !

I have some 1:24 Westside Lumber Company cars, I made a few years ago.

Always fancied a little something indoors to run them on.

Mmmm... We'll see !

Keep up the cool drawings.

All the best.

Cheers.

Si.

Had a crazy idea to turn a Bachmann G-scale 'gandy dancer'...
...into a 1:24 Dunkirk !

Something small for an indoor track.

Mmmm...



____________________

' Mysterious Moose Mountain ' - 1:35n2 - pt.II
http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=7318&forum_id=17&page=1

' M:R:W Motor Speedway !!! ' - 1:32 Slotcar Racing Layout
http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=59295&st=0&a
Back To Top

 Posted: Thu Apr 9th, 2015 03:46 pm
  PMQuoteReply
8th Post
Milocomarty
Registered


Joined: Thu Nov 1st, 2012
Location: Borne, Netherlands
Posts: 994
Status: 
Offline
Cooldrawings, but I think they better suit 0 scale..just finished 6 modules for scale 1 they are 4 x 3'4 and only have one bridge when added together. Been working on a smal gauge 1 layout 11' by 6'4", just plans for a customer, but boy what a space does this stuff need. A good looking turnout is 2' long..



____________________
Regards Martin
Back To Top

 Posted: Thu Apr 9th, 2015 07:59 pm
  PMQuoteReply
9th Post
Si.
Moderator


Joined: Thu Feb 23rd, 2012
Location: London
Posts: 5282
Status: 
Offline
It's interesting to think that if you had a whole room for small-prototype 7/8" like Franck's stuff...

...you'd kinda have an EMPIRE !

So long & don't forget the fish !

Si.

Gauge 1 mainline is BIG stuff !

So are 1:32 slotcar tracks.



____________________

' Mysterious Moose Mountain ' - 1:35n2 - pt.II
http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=7318&forum_id=17&page=1

' M:R:W Motor Speedway !!! ' - 1:32 Slotcar Racing Layout
http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=59295&st=0&a
Back To Top

 Posted: Thu Apr 16th, 2015 08:12 pm
  PMQuoteReply
10th Post
Dave V
Registered


Joined: Tue Apr 14th, 2015
Location: Renton, Washington USA
Posts: 3
Status: 
Offline
I'm brand new here, but hope you don't mind if I add my two cents worth to the conversation. My answer to the "fitting" large scale indoors was to focus on a traction layout.

That settled, I got my General Manager's permission to add and finish out a room above our garage that gave me a space 16 feet wide by 24 feet long. Long story, but I had Iain Rice, the author, do up a rough plan for me based on my desired features. He is an absolute master at fitting a model railroad world into small spaces, and 10 years ago was doing so on a professional basis.

I've attached the plan, and am pretty well underway with the bench work and some track is down too.

Dave

Attachment: Large Plan.jpg (Downloaded 94 times)



____________________
Dave Vanderwal
Back To Top


 Current time is 06:57 pm
Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  

Freerails > Model Railroad Forums > Large Scale > Concept Plans for Fn3
Top



UltraBB 1.172 Copyright © 2007-2016 Data 1 Systems