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Herb Kephart
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A much too short film clip


https://www.facebook.com/brendan.terrett/videos/1201954813165472/

Well, there's wires, it just chooses to not use them---

Herb

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Herb are you trying to make a groan man cry???
The wires were for the ensuing elecric busses and even today if you know where to look you can still see wall roses where the wires once were...

oztrainz
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Hi Trev,
maybe this might brighten your mood?

Loftus Tramway museum November 2007.

Tony Walsham
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In the same vein.


Coming soon from Argyle Loco in 1:32 scale.

oztrainz
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Nice one Tony,
For Trev and yourself,
The University of Newcastle as part of their "Cultural Collections" website has digitised over 1600 glass plate negatives from the ARHS (Australian Railway Historical Society) NSW collection into a Flickr album.

The steam tram stuff loosk like it starts at
https://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/8231196038/in/album-72157627333542955/ Click on the arrow at the right of the photo to go to the next one. There are at least 20 photos of NSW & Qld steam trams to enjoy.

oztrainz
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Hi Trevor an Tony,
Just found a most unhappy steam tram at https://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/8270513193/in/album-72157627333542955/
Not sure what the story was with behind this one, but it looks like a boiler explosion?

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oztrainz wrote:
Hi Trev,
maybe this might brighten your mood?

Loftus Tramway museum November 2007.

Yeah well so we have a C, N, P and Z class cars in a row.... Of course my favourite is the C class...

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Tony Walsham wrote:
In the same vein.


Coming soon from Argyle Loco in 1:32 scale.

Hmm the 2 man version with the lower mounted headlight. Usually these days a Baldwin seems to need a crew bigger than Cecil de Mille could assemble...

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oztrainz wrote:
Hi Trevor an Tony,
Just found a most unhappy steam tram at https://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/8270513193/in/album-72157627333542955/
Not sure what the story was with behind this one, but it looks like a boiler explosion?

Thats the Cabarita explosion.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/19389855
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5105868
The wooden body dosen't offer much protection.....

Last edited on Sat Jan 16th, 2016 01:09 am by Tramcar Trev

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And guys have a look at this; a Purrey in original condition; https://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/8230485159/in/album-72157627333542955/
and a rebuild; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xImxm80fxc Has to be on your bucket list, people come from all over the world to see this....

Herb Kephart
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Surprised at how quiet it is.

A little chuff-chuff would be nice.


Herb

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Purreys dont chuff, the exhaust is condensed.... Amazing that there were 1000's of these all through Europe and only 1 survived, in a small rural town here....

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Tony Walsham wrote:
In the same vein.


Coming soon from Argyle Loco in 1:32 scale.

A mate in the G1 crowd says these are being be preordered at an unprecedented rate... Wonder what they will pull? maybe just used as showponies....

oztrainz
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Awww, come on Trev,
In real life they were good for 2 or 3 trailer cars only, (maybe 4 at best) in those ARHS photos I've seen - until after they were retired to places like Bombo quarry and then they had the guts thrashed out of them. Check out the Kogarah tram at https://flic.kr/p/dxgFqp This was probably a maximum load?

A model should probably do as good as this prototype on the flat, provided that the trailer cars aren't built excessively "draggy".

I haven't found a photo of them in service at Bombo online yet but I know that there are photos of them. I have seen a photo of 11A with bodgied headstocks in service at Bombo. 21 went to Bulli colliery as a jetty shunter and 9A went to South Kembla Colliery, shunting the base of their incline.

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The Baldwins did come in 3 cylinder sizes; 9", 10" 11" so the larger sized ones were reasonably powerfull, tractive effort was the problem in street running with oil dripped all over the rails from leaking pommy cars etc. There is also the absurd claim that they could only do 20MPH, yeah well speeds well in excess of that were commonplace hence the expresssion "to shoot through like a Bondi Tram"....
Bombo, Byron Bay and a logging tramway in Gippsland also had retired baldwins... When I was goingb to High School 2 trailers were found behind a House in Janalli and that created a stir getting them out...
Check out the load behind 101A when it was being used to help build the Captains Flat line; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captains_Flat_railway_line they went to all sorts of weird places and the Parramatta shed had motors in it in 1952 which everyone says is not true but I have a photo somewhere of me as a little kid outside the Parramatta shed in front of a Motor with my dad and grandad. The guy who is the Sydney Ferries Historian claims that though the line ceased operations in 1943 by Sydney Ferries Meggits continued to use the tramway for their produce till 1953.... Dad used to help Max Dupain as a kid, Dupain kept boxes of his negs at Dads place at Bondi and it was among them the Negative was found, and guess what its 103A we are standing in front of which now is still running at Valley Heights.... Small world?


I have had some interesting discussions with a few Experts re running these on mainline railways and the stories re the tyre profiles. The motors and trailers that worked the Cronulla - Sutherland line seem from the pictures to indeed have deeper flanges than the motors used on the suburban lines... The Cronulla motors had both air and vacuum brakes and they used to haul a "mixed" consist for Sutherland to Shelly Beach and had to have had railway profile tyres as they used to travel on the mainline to Sydney for major overhauls. The armchair experst actually can produce the "special regulations" for such journeys....
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=sutherland+to+cronulla+steam+tram&biw=1440&bih=813&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiqvo2837LKAhXnnaYKHbB_CAoQ_AUICCgD#imgrc=d19543c20nGq-M%3A

oztrainz
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Hi Trev,
Yes that is a pretty impressive load on 101A If you say 15 tons/wagon, then you are looking at a 150 tons plus load, probably closer to 200 tons being moved by a light 0-4-0 locomotive.

Helfire Jack (McVey?) also had a reputation for running the Wallsend trams on the Newcastle network at a pretty good clip as well.

From memory the front end of a steam tram was embedded in a memorial at the site of the old tramshed at Newcastle. I can remember passing the memorial as a kid. I'm not sure if it is still there on Hunter? Street.

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oztrainz wrote: Hi Trev,
Yes that is a pretty impressive load on 101A If you say 15 tons/wagon, then you are looking at a 150 tons plus load, probably closer to 200 tons being moved by a light 0-4-0 locomotive.
Well, let's have a look at a reprint of an H. K. Porter catalog from early to early/mid 1900s.
Pages 114 and 115, a little 8x14 cylinder size, 26 inch drivers, plantation style 0-4-0 side tanker with 24,000 lbs weight in working order and 4,680 lbs tractive effort
Rated 705 tons on absolute level.
Just 270 tons on a 1/2% grade.
Merely 85 tons on 2% grade.

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Kitbash0n30 wrote:
oztrainz wrote: Hi Trev,
Yes that is a pretty impressive load on 101A If you say 15 tons/wagon, then you are looking at a 150 tons plus load, probably closer to 200 tons being moved by a light 0-4-0 locomotive.
Well, let's have a look at a reprint of an H. K. Porter catalog from early to early/mid 1900s.
Pages 114 and 115, a little 8x14 cylinder size, 26 inch drivers, plantation style 0-4-0 side tanker with 24,000 lbs weight in working order and 4,680 lbs tractive effort
Rated 705 tons on absolute level.
Just 270 tons on a 1/2% grade.
Merely 85 tons on 2% grade.

Which would seem reasonable... The tractive effort was the catch though, so many stories of Motors slipping on grades it must be at least partially true... The "Miranda Hill" Was notorious as were the descents to the eastern suburbs beaches where 1:10 grades were common....There were much steeper grades 1:8 to Balmain Wharf where the infamous Dummy used to work and Bellvue Hill, thats even a challenge for a car let alone an antique tram....
I'll have to check up the specs for the Baldwins, I have them in my totally disorganised archives along with the drawings....

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Somewhere in a book on the electrified sections of the Milwaukee Road through the Bitterroots and other mountains along the Rockies there is a pic of where they paralleled the Northern Pacific and caption mentions that NP's Z-something mallet, something like a 2-8-8-2, I'll have to dig out the book and look, was rated at only 600 tons on the 4% grade there.
That's six, just six, modern grain hoppers loaded, maybe even only 5.

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Typical specifications for an 11" Baldwin steam tram motor:

Cylinders: 11" diameter x 16" stroke
Tractive Effort: 120 psi steam, 5,500 lb at 10 mph
Weight: 14 tons 2 cwt
Length: 17 feet 2 inches
Width: 8 feet 6 inches


The headlights are interesting too, later there was a small turbo generator fitted and electric light was used. 103A has the remnants of the "Alladin" kero lamps where vaporised kerosine was burnt on a mantle. The early Motors had acyetlene headlights which were brighter but were prone to explode with the voilent agitiation of the water on the carbide....
Funny thing is 1A at the powerhouse Museum is not even a Baldwin but a copy built in Sydney

Last edited on Mon Jan 18th, 2016 10:50 pm by Tramcar Trev


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