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Let's Talk...INERTIA???
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 Posted: Fri Apr 1st, 2016 02:56 am
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Bernd
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Budd wrote:
Bernd wrote:
I've been experimenting with a mechanical momentum system using an Eddy Current drive.

http://kingstonemodelworks.com/ECDtb.html

Bernd


Who is Eddy Current and what scale does he model in?

???

Wayne from Oz.


He's a friend of mine with a very magnetic personality and he models in both HO and TT scale. :Salute:

Bernd



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A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks
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 Posted: Fri Apr 1st, 2016 02:59 am
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Bernd
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Bob D wrote:
Bernd, I saw where you had mentioned this before, interesting!

It got me looking at my old magazines and found this Fluid Drive clutch in the August 1951 Model Railroader:

I guess as long as it doesn't leak we'd be OK, but it could mess up all the fancy electronics we now put in our engines.

BobD.


They did leak. The other problem was the seals. To much friction. The Eddy Current drive has very little friction using miniature ball bearings. I need to expand further on this subject. I have much more experimenting I want to do.

Bernd



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An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks
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 Posted: Fri Apr 1st, 2016 03:49 am
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Budd
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Bernd wrote:
Budd wrote:
Bernd wrote:
I've been experimenting with a mechanical momentum system using an Eddy Current drive.

http://kingstonemodelworks.com/ECDtb.html

Bernd


Who is Eddy Current and what scale does he model in?

???

Wayne from Oz.


He's a friend of mine with a very magnetic personality and he models in both HO and TT scale. :Salute:

Bernd


Is he the son of D.C. and A.C. Current? shocking family, I think they used to drive a Voltswagen.

That's it from Wayne from Oz.



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Modelling the 3'6" gauge railways of South Australia of course.
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 Posted: Fri Apr 1st, 2016 05:43 am
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Budd
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On a serious note, my set up is Tx22 and Rx65 in a diesel, the engine has a flywheel fitted, on 'zero' inertia setting there is some inertia effect, just the right amount for my liking. On 'max' inertia setting, the only change was that it took a l..o..n..g time to start then acceleration was very brisk any way and shutting it of had little effect in that it wouldn't stop. The Tx was 'centre off' then, I have since changed it to 'low off' and found I need about 40% of throttle movement before the engine moves off, I have wondered if this was having an effect on any 'max' inertia setting. It doesn't matter now as I have removed the inertia knob/control from my Tx, so other than getting some engine movement at a lower throttle setting I am very happy, I just turn my knob slowly.

Wayne from Oz.



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Modelling the 3'6" gauge railways of South Australia of course.
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 Posted: Sun Apr 3rd, 2016 11:24 am
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Bob D
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Budd wrote: On 'max' inertia setting, the only change was that it took a l..o..n..g time to start then acceleration was very brisk any way and shutting it of had little effect in that it wouldn't stop.

Wayne from Oz.

Wayne,  that's what I'm seeing also.

When I turn the throttle knob on my RCS Tx7k or Tx3 I have to turn it approximately 25-30 degrees to get the engine to move.  When it does it's not a jack-rabbit start, but not a slow ramping up of movement as I would like.

I only have this problem with 2 out of 8 engines, so I'm pretty sure it's not the electronics but the mechanics (weight, gearing, mass, etc) inside the engines.

So...if it takes "X" voltage to overcome the mechanics, changing the Inertia setting IMO won't entirely solve it, but changing both Inertia and Min (Start Power) voltage may (so I don't have to turn the knob 25-30 degrees before the engine begins to move).  Or maybe changing just the Min setting will fix the issue.

It's been so long since I dealt in physics (or electronics theory) that I may not be saying this correctly.

BobD.



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 Posted: Sun Apr 3rd, 2016 11:26 am
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Bob D
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Hey!!! I've been on the forum for a year now.

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY [toast]:2t::moose:

BobD.



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 Posted: Sun Apr 3rd, 2016 12:56 pm
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fallen
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As I understand it, the inertia knob on the TX adjusts the speed at which the TX responds to the settings of the speed knob. No inertia and the signal follows the knob, high inertia and the signal lags behind the movement of the knob.

So if you set the inertia knob to high, then start off the loco, it takes a while for the signal being transmitted to get up to the threshold at which the loco will start. This causes the delay in starting.

I suspect Bob's solution of adjusting the start power should do the trick.

Frank

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 Posted: Sun Apr 3rd, 2016 01:34 pm
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davecttr
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To amplify a little on what Frank said. As i understand it the TX transmits about 50 data packets per second. If you set the inertia knob to say 10 seconds the Tx will ramp up the 0% to 100% throttle settings by 1% 10 times a second???

Then we have 'stiction' which I believe is the effect of all the motor and drive train issues that mean the loco won't move until a certain voltage is reached.

We want smooth starts so our tiny passengers don't get hurled off their feet or put in compensation claims for backlash neck injuries!

Increasing the MIN setting may help although I would leave a little bit of dead throttle as driving for real is fun. back in the day the driver had to learn the 'feel' of the loco and did not have inertia control or back EMF.

Back EMF might help but Deltang RX does not have it. I am interested in trying a Bluetooth receiver which may?. I have one loco with an ancient tender drive that accelerates at high G to about scale 15mph, killing all the little people in the process.

ps - there is another reason for keeping some flexibilty in the throttle - lighting. I have not converted my diesel multiple unit yet but when i do it would be good to have the lights working. There is lighting control in the Rx. Stop the train and the lights remain on. Reverse and the front/rear lights swop over. If you set the MIN so the train does not start immediately you can 'blip' the throttle and the lights will change without the train moving, just like real life.



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 Posted: Sun Apr 3rd, 2016 02:53 pm
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W C Greene
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Happy anniversary Bob...maybe it's my anniversary also, I have been "wireless" for about 16 years now. Been having fun while everybody else looks for brite boys and short circuits.

Outlaw Troublemaker-my official title in the Texas Outlaws On30 group



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 Posted: Sun Apr 3rd, 2016 03:17 pm
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Bob D
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Thanks guys (and thank you "Outlaw")

I think I'll adjust the MIN a bit and see what goes.

If I adjust it, what happens at the top end?

If the voltage is set higher at the low end (let's say the engine starts moving at 15 degrees, I would think I would top out at 85% (movement of the knob) and the rest of the throttle knob movement wouldn't do anything?

Bob



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