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Larry G
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This was started as ''New member introduction''. See past postings there.

The APPETITE MINE story will continue here...

  This crusty old boy is yours truly.

Attached Image (viewed 16 times):



Good afternoon everyone, Larry Gant here. I am a 75 year old retired graphic artist (glorified term for sign painter, in my case). born in Clear Lake, South Dakota in 1941, moved to Minneapolis, MN in 1948, retired to the Black Hills of South Dakota/Wyoming in 2006. I joined a HO scale club up in historic Deadwood and built a HO scale home layout too.

Losing interest in HO standard gauge, I have started a decent size Gn15 layout... 16"x15' along one wall and 16"x9' along another wall with a 3'x5' peninsula off the 9' wall over my modeling desk.

The Gn15 layout will be set in the Black Hills during the late 1950s. A fictitious mineral named "Appetite" will be mined so I can avoid any rivet counters telling me I'm doing things wrong.


Larry Gant

:old dude:

Last edited on Mon Jul 4th, 2016 08:43 pm by Larry G

W C Greene
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OK fellow Rails de' free...I had to do some "work" and delete the entire "can I change my name" thread. Yes, I seem to be the only one who can do these things (yes, uh huh, mmmm) so I hope my doing so doesn't cause me to get deleted also. Of course, I have been kicked off websites before for minor infractions so I await further instructions.

Now, may I present the new APPETITE MINE by Larry G. I hope this is proper and works for all concerned.

Outlaw Troublemaker

Larry G
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Woodie, you "work" too fast. I was just about to follow ? advice and add the links he provided to my 2 threads. That's ok, I'll come at this "APPETITE MINE" thing from another angle. My tired old gray matter still works once in a while.

Larry G

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That vacuum-tube computer Herb gave you is amazing Woodie !

It even does B&W photos as well, so I hear.

:moose:

Si.

Larry G
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This photo picks up where the old thread ended...

Inside the Homestake/Sanford visitors center at LEAD, SD, I found this hoist cage. The single, very large, cable is just visible on top.    Almost looks like a brass model.

Larry 7-4-2016 Lead, SD
Attached Image (viewed 23 times):


Last edited on Mon Jul 4th, 2016 09:08 pm by Larry G

Larry G
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Another view of the same cage...


Attachment: DSC00221 (1).jpg (Downloaded 423 times)

Larry G
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And a side view...

Attachment: DSC00222 (1).jpg (Downloaded 424 times)

Larry G
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Top of the cage...

Attachment: DSC00223.jpg (Downloaded 398 times)

Larry G
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Waiting for supplies. Little progress on the incline hoist.

Attachment: DSC00241.jpg (Downloaded 369 times)

Larry G
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Making progress on my foam carving experiment...

Attachment: DSC00242.jpg (Downloaded 369 times)

oztrainz
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Hi Larry and all
If you are after larry's original thread click this link
http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=7209&forum_id=17&page=1

Nice work on the rock carving. and the base of the incline plane looks very solid :2t:

Can't wait to see what develops next,

NevadaBlue
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I agree, nice progress!

Larry G
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Thanks guys, foam carving is easy work but takes a while to master. So far my attempt is looking presentable, I think. Here's a progress shot...

Attachment: DSC00232.jpg (Downloaded 176 times)

Last edited on Sun Jul 10th, 2016 06:34 pm by Larry G

Larry G
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Another shot showing the opening covered over with plaster cloth. Also a bit more progress on the rock carving.   Larry

Attachment: DSC00234.jpg (Downloaded 175 times)

Last edited on Sun Jul 10th, 2016 06:36 pm by Larry G

Larry G
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Close-up of the same area with a primer coat of low priced wall paint. Next job is to color the "rocks" with something that looks reasonably realistic.
Larry

Attachment: DSC00240.jpg (Downloaded 175 times)

Larry G
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I've been working on the population for the layout. Here are the first 33 figures with 20 more in the works.

Attachment: DSC00256 (1).jpg (Downloaded 153 times)

NevadaBlue
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Good stuff! I use latex wall paint also. Very easy to use and it makes a nice tough layer on the 'rocks'.

The population of the layout seems to be exploding!

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That's what happens with an appetite!

Herb

Larry G
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My appetite for figures includes some skinny dippers. I am assuming that posting photos of these adventurous folks would get me into hot water, am I right?

Larry

Last edited on Sun Jul 17th, 2016 04:10 am by Larry G

Herb Kephart
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Not unless they are doing things--AHEM--procreative

Herb

Larry G
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For what it's worth... I had forgotten about this picture. It shows the foam packing I used to make up the main frame of part of my layout. I made two sections like this, each 5' long. That's a "G" scale trestle from my old outdoor layout you can see in the background.

Larry

Attachment: DSC03435.jpg (Downloaded 153 times)

Last edited on Thu Aug 4th, 2016 06:21 pm by Larry G

Larry G
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My track was looking way to close to the edge of the layout. I decided to add a little extra foam and extend a small area out by 3". Also added a rock out cropping to break-up the scenery a bit.

Larry

Attachment: DSC00258.jpg (Downloaded 142 times)

Last edited on Fri Jul 22nd, 2016 04:29 am by Larry G

Larry G
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New scenery carved and painted with wall paint. Finish coloring will come next, then weeds etc.

Larry

Attachment: DSC00259.jpg (Downloaded 142 times)

Last edited on Fri Jul 22nd, 2016 04:29 am by Larry G

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I love it! Extensions already!

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Nice start on the layout!

That hoist cage is huge! I've seen a lot of hoist cages at old mines in the West, but none anywhere near as large as that.

Larry G
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What can I say, Homestake was a huge operation. I imagine they had to lower some very large things into the mine. Did you notice the relatively small guides on the side of the cage? The hoist house is still in operation lowering a similar cage. The Sanford underground laboratory personnel use it for what ever. Some 18" gauge tracks were retained for some use I am not aware of. I assume some rolling stock must also be in use.

Larry Gant

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Another change: I decided to breakup all that retaining wall under the roadbed. So a small bridge will be cut in to span a dry wash. This picture shows the rough-in beginning.

Attachment: DSC00274.jpg (Downloaded 99 times)

Larry G
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I made a little progress around the new bridge area. Before the bridge goes in, scenery behind the bridge and the dry wash need to be finished. Trying to do this after the bridge is installed would be a pain in the butt.

Attachment: DSC00275.jpg (Downloaded 89 times)

Larry G
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Next to the new bridge is the site for a future "DINKY" shed, left side of the barren track bed.

Attachment: DSC00278.jpg (Downloaded 88 times)

Larry G
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This shot will give a better idea of the space I have for a shed. It will be a single stall with a small shop area on the side.

Attachment: DSC00281.jpg (Downloaded 89 times)

Helmut
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Larry G wrote: .. skinny dippers. I am assuming that posting photos of these adventurous folks would get me into hot water,?
Well, even Wikipedia now says: "( skinny dipping is done )  more recently in ... hot tubs.

Larry G
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Ah yes, skinny dipping, hot tubs are the most often place for that adventurous activity. My wife and I have a hot tub in our basement where just the two of us skinny dip.

I am almost finished with assembling and painting my nude figures and will post a photo soon. Not sure where they will end up on the layout, most likely near a future mountain resort. I like to ruffle a few feathers from time to time so we'll see how my nude figures are received

Larry Gant

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Just wondering... what meaning do the gold stars, sea shells and fire represent.

Larry G

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Hi Larry,
I'm not sure how you get Ratings Stars - I'll leave that for Herb or Woody

The seashells are simply forum markers - if they are rotating you have unread stuff in that forum.

The flames are for stuff like you Appetite Mine that is "hot stuff" - generating lots of postings and looks. I'm not sure what it takes to put the flames out or how much activity it takes to go from a slow smoulder to furnace heat :)

W C Greene
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Howdy Larry, I do hate the "ratings" BS but can't get rid of it! I think your thread is worth 5 or more stars however. I do believe that there are some "cranks" who "vote" for one star when they think that those with 5 or so need to be "taught a lesson".. Who knows. Here, we have some very excellent threads which used to have 4 or 5 stars and then, all of a sudden' have 2 stars! It has to be malcontents, etc. who cause this turn. Whatever, yours and others deserve the high praise...don't let some numb-nut get you down. They tend to come & go anyway. Web surfers, you know.

Now, I will get off the soapbox and use some of the soap!
Woodie

Larry G
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Thanks Woodie, Like most people I have delt with jerks before.
I consider the source and move forward without them.
I was just wondering about the various symbols and their meanings.

Larry Gant

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I never could figure out why a thread needed to be rated anyway. I kind of like the ability to 'like' a post, since that is a quick way to tell someone that you appreciate his post without cluttering up a thread by saying 'I like it'.
Now to figure out how to rate a thread. :bg:

Now I know... 'you are not authorized to rate this topic' :Crazy:

Last edited on Thu Aug 4th, 2016 04:13 am by NevadaBlue

Larry G
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Hey Ken, I feel the same way about model contests judged by the public. People tend to vote for their friends models instead of the best models.

Larry G

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Larry

Don't ask me how those dang things work, Im just here to buy cigars for Gromit.

Herb

Larry G
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Making a little progress on my new bridge. The bridge deck will be solid with ballasted track.

Attachment: DSC00282.jpg (Downloaded 72 times)

Last edited on Sun Aug 7th, 2016 05:19 am by Larry G

Larry G
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The "concrete" back walls for the Dinky shed are in now... and 6' of redwood ties are glued in place.
Larry G

Attachment: DSC00286.jpg (Downloaded 113 times)

Last edited on Tue Aug 9th, 2016 07:36 am by Larry G

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Hi Larry.

Looking GREAT !
I like your ties.
What size timber did you use ?

:moose:

Si.

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Larry, you're getting the Black Hills look just right!  Now you just need a few hundred ponderosa pine trees.

Keep up the good work!

--James:thumb:

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Si,
My ties are 1 3/4" x  5/16" x 1/4". They were cut from a clear redwood 1" x 6" plank on my 10" table saw. I won't have enough ties so will have to find another clear redwood plank. Clear redwood is getting harder to find and is quite expensive compared to other soft woods. I now have 11' of ties glued in place. I'll be using code 100 rail for my track.

Larry G

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James,
No bazillion Ponderosa trees for me.  I plan to model a area of the "hills" that is more arid than most parts. For example:inside the city limits of Rapid City, the East side of "M" hill is very much like Arizona, hot and dry. Even some of the vegetation resembles that in Arizona.
Unfortunately, half of the East side of "M" hill just burned taking out most of the few trees we had there. The West side, where most of the trees are, was untouched by the fire.

Two 11 year old boys, playing with fire works, started the fire and are being charged with arson since they have started other fires too.

Larry

Last edited on Mon Aug 8th, 2016 06:51 am by Larry G

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Well the M hill will be blooming by next year I suppose.

But on a serious note, I hope those kids learn that when you have a burn ban in effect in South Dakota, it should not be taken lightly.

About 5 years ago someone dropped a match near the reservation.  Within 2 days it had burned around 11,000 acres.

Oh well, at least that will simplify the scenery process a bit.  Keep up the good work!

--James

Larry G
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This biker dude will give you some idea of the small size of the bridge.
Larry

Attachment: DSC00288.jpg (Downloaded 85 times)

Last edited on Tue Aug 9th, 2016 07:22 am by Larry G

Larry G
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Moving forward on the bridge...
Larry

Attachment: DSC00290.jpg (Downloaded 85 times)

Last edited on Tue Aug 9th, 2016 07:26 am by Larry G

Larry G
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Painted the hill side, not sure if I like the gray, a little dark for the Black Hills.

Attachment: DSC00302.jpg (Downloaded 81 times)

W C Greene
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Looks great. Now, a little closer view of the lady might be OK also.
Keep it up, nice rock work.

Woodie

Larry G
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Woodie, I am your humble servant. This is as close as I could crop the picture without it getting so grainy you couldn't make out what you are looking at.
Both figures are by Jimmy Flintstone.
Larry G

Attachment: DSC00302 (1).jpg (Downloaded 114 times)

Last edited on Wed Aug 10th, 2016 07:31 pm by Larry G

Herb Kephart
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Hey Woodie
Rockwork? I dont see any rockwork----

I aint signing anything

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Hi Larry.

Very nice looking boulders.
Quite a smooth surface.
Kept rounded by creek water I guess.

:moose:

Sigh.

Larry G
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I went with a steel girder bridge instead of a closed deck. I think it looks more like something a mining co would use for such a small tramway.
Larry G

Attachment: DSC00304.jpg (Downloaded 98 times)

Last edited on Mon Aug 15th, 2016 02:52 am by Larry G

Larry G
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A little closer view for Woodie... The guy and gal are both by Jimmy Flintstone.
Larry

Attachment: DSC00305.jpg (Downloaded 97 times)

Last edited on Mon Aug 15th, 2016 06:35 am by Larry G

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"Well rounded boulders, smooth surface"...

Larry, this will get you 6 or 7 BIG STARS!!!!
Cool

Woodie

BTW-The layout is looking great, that new bridge works.

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Hi Larry

That bridge scene looks GREAT !
FANTASTIC scene !

Love the cribbing, the extreme slope & concrete work...
...have some moose ! :moose::moose::moose::moose::moose:

" A little closer view for Woodie... "

I'm a bit worried about Woodie though.
His eyesight seems just fine, changing microscopic Shay gears.
But needs close-ups to see large geological features !

L:

Si.

Larry G
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Hi Si, I do what I can to help Woodie see important things as they were meant to be seen.
Larry Gant

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I do see...Gee-Ology

Woodie

Larry G
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This is what I have created so far, 6' of semi finished scenery...

Attachment: DSC00309.jpg (Downloaded 88 times)

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:moose:

oztrainz
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Hi Ken
I'll raise - :moose::moose:
Larry nice work :2t::2t: Keep the photos coming please.

This is starting to look very good indeed.

Let me know when you are ready to tackle the incline and I'll provide all the "long-range" help I can,

Larry G
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Hey John, I am rethinking the incline. Instead of a built up foundation of stone or concrete, maybe steel beams with cross bracing. This would look very cool I think. The under track workings would show to great advantage. One large problem, how to make miles of plastic beams. Buying them would get very expensive for a structure this large.

Here's another view of my layout...
Larry Gant

Attachment: DSC00317 (1).jpg (Downloaded 78 times)

Larry G
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And, a little closer view...
Larry

Attachment: DSC00316 (1).jpg (Downloaded 78 times)

NevadaBlue
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:moose:

The lost topic is back!

W C Greene
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OK, glad it's working again.

Woodie

Larry G
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Great work guys, glad to see the Appetite Mine thread back again. Any idea what happened?
Outhouse, my first scratch built structure for the Appetite Mine project. I chose the privy because it is small and can be used in several locations.


Larry G

Attachment: DSC00269.jpg (Downloaded 54 times)

Larry G
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Another view... with a roll of TP inside.

Attachment: DSC00270.jpg (Downloaded 54 times)

Last edited on Sun Sep 4th, 2016 08:31 pm by Larry G

Larry G
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Due to poor planing on my part, I had to rebuild the "mountain side" to make room for a second track.

Attachment: DSC00325 (1).jpg (Downloaded 54 times)

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Open space filled in with plaster cloth...

Attachment: DSC00326 (1).jpg (Downloaded 54 times)

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New retaining walls to hold back the mountain...
Larry Gant

Attachment: DSC00329.jpg (Downloaded 79 times)

Larry G
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Many years ago, my mother told me that my DNA was more than 50% English. With this in mind and also a mans chances of getting a fair deal during a divorce. I am going to name the company mining the Appetite, ROYAL SHAFTING MINING CORP. Ltd ;) 

Does the Ltd fit for a layout set in the late 50s???

LTD & LLC seem to be a more recent thing, like in the last 20 years or so. Earlier, I think incorporation was used to protect the owners of a business or members of a club from being sued individually. Only business or club assets were up for grabs. However, this would not protect the company or club from liability suits.

What do I know, I'm just a lowly sign painter. (retired)

Larry

Last edited on Thu Sep 1st, 2016 06:07 pm by Larry G

oztrainz
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Hi Larry,
In US speak, I think LTD may actually by LLC - Not sure what the difference is but both forms of company limit the liability if things don't go right. I defer to the expertise of any list member accounts/lawyers etc and such on this matter.

I spent many years working for a LTD out here and then later a few more years working for a LLC.
:bg:

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Well, I've gone and done it, made the decision to build the incline plane from a web of steel (plastic) beams, girders and cross bracing. The original incline has been reconfigured to a series of steps. Vertical beams will rise from each step to support the incline framework above.

This will take much longer to build. I will have to scratch build miles of girders and beams to build such a large structure.

My motto: THINK, there must be a harder way to do this.

Glutton for punishment, Larry Gant:Crazy:




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Si.
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Hi Larry.

The chic on the Vespa is wearing a blouse.
What happened ? ... The weather turn cold there ?

Wos she up to ? ... Scouting locations for Evil Kenevil ?

:moose:

Si.

Larry G
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Si, have patience, all my naked ladies have been assembled and painted. Their debut will be slow and deliberate. One here, one there. ;)  Anticipation, my friend, is the name of the game. :)

Larry G

Last edited on Thu Sep 1st, 2016 06:10 pm by Larry G

Larry G
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This shot will give a vague idea of how the incline will line up with the steps.
Larry

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Side view... Larry


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Larry G
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View from the top... Larry


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Top of the incline. White block to the left is where the control shed will stand. A steel structure will extend out from the end of track to the incline.
Larry


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Larry G
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QUESTIONS...  I have no clue of how the operating sequence at a incline plane would be handled. Loaded cars down, empties up, in what sequence. ??? Are two tracks enough or have I boxed myself into a corner. ??? Would the track arrangement be the same top and bottom? ???
I'm trying to visualize how all this will work without empty incline cars going up and down.

I tend to get way ahead of myself sometimes. :dope:

I know, fine time to think about this stuff.

Larry :bang:

oztrainz
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Hi Lee,
the answers are - it depends on the type of incline you build.
Previously you said you wished to use the Vivian incline in Wales as inspiration. This is a balanced incline where the weight of the loaded wagon going downhill brings the empty back up on the other track and the incline cars are linked to each end of a common table. This could probably called a self-acting incline, where the incline will operated without the input of any power from a motor. This would probably be tough to regulate in model form.

You could build a powered version where the speed and direction of an electric motor attached to the rope drum at the top of the hill could be used to control the movement of the incline wagons on each track.

A powered single track incline is the easiest one to build.

In terms of traffic - for a captive system with no ability to feed in cars from the 'rest of the world" at both ends, then for every loaded wagon going one way, you need empty wagon going the other way or you will run out of wagons to haul stuff away.

If you are running a single track incline then every trip of the incline car should ideally be taking a loaded car when heading in one direction and bringing an empty car back the other way.

OK let's take this a step further, assuming you have loads coming from a quarry at the top of the hill, the loaded stone wagons will be loaded going downhill and coming back uphill empty. However the gunpowder needed for blasting by the quarry will be going uphill in loaded gunpowder vans and the empty gunpowder vans will be being returned downhill so they can be reloaded at the gunpowder factory and returned to the quarry with more gunpowder.

Now as far as track arrangements are concerned, this is dependent on how you organise your incline car.
The simplest incline car has one central track on it and only holds one car at a time.
The Vivian Incline cars hold 2 wagons side by side
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naGrum5Qsnc
This complicates the track arrangement at each end with traversers as shown in the video being used to feed the incline cars. This option will require a wider hole for the traverser car at the bottom end

Another version would be a tandem car where a longer traverser car holds 2 wagons one behind the other, but this will require a longer narrow hole at the bottom end for the traverser car to sink into.

I'll work up some possible track plans on each option for you later today. I have to be elsewhere soon,

Larry G
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John,
I do appreciate your help. :moose:

I have been building with the Vivian incline in mind, two tracks.

I made the decision to build my incline with steel beams and girders to more closely emulate what the Homestake Gold Mine, here in Lead, SD, might have done.

Maybe a single operating track on the incline with the other being repaired, forever. Up top, the second track could be used to hold empty cars as they come up the incline. The same could be done at the bottom for loaded cars. This would slow the process but it would also make my two track system work smoothly. No rebuilding needed.

Does this sound like something the operators of a full size incline would do, or could do? ???

Larry

Last edited on Thu Sep 1st, 2016 05:50 am by Larry G

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Lower retaining walls have been bulked up with 1/2" pink foam. Curving the ridged foam was done by slicing the foam almost all the way through. Then a skim coat of sheetrock mud was applied to fill the open cuts.
Larry G


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A second coat of mud was added to insure that the cuts did not show. Then a coat of concrete colored paint was applied. Note the wall extension at the incline.
Larry G

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oztrainz
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Hi Larry,
I don't know how the Vivian Incline was set up at the top, in whether it was a powered incline or run solely using gravity. If it was run solely under gravity then it is likely that either one rope ran both tracks or each track had its own winding drum and rope that was mechanically coupled to the other winding drum.

If it was run solely under gravity then your idea of having one track permanently down can't work, because when the operational track has its incline car at the bottom of the hill, there is no mechanism to bring that car back up to the top of the hill.

Now having said that some of the Welsh inclines used water power from streams to transfer power by waterwheels. For this option the rope was attached to the winding drum at one end and the water wheel was set u to wind the incline car back up the hill. The run down the hill was made using mechanical brakes to control the speed

Another gravity-powered option was to use the water from the stream to fill tanks used as counterweights that travelled between the incline rails but were lower than the incline rails. These counterweight tanks were attached to the other end of the haulage rope, and dumped their water when they got to the bottom of the incline.

Realistically, in model form the simplest way to model what is now effectively a single track incline is as a powered incline using and electric motor to power the winding drum.

Have a look at http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/InclineRwy.html for some ideas on how this might be set up for DC powered operations. Now if you use the adjustable strikers on the travelling block to trip limit switches and use a simple forward/reverse switch for motor control, you a re better than 1/2 way there for a powered single track incline. The travelling block arrangement gets around the problems of trying to trip sensors with the haulage rope. The timed delay and timer circuits should not be needed.

Some track arrangement thoughts next...

Larry G
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:wave:  Hey John,
A counter weight moving between and below rail height would be doable. With my proposed open frame work the counter weight would be visible as it moved along below the rails, very cool. Would the counter weight have small wheels or slide on greased steel angle irons. ???

A grooved winding drum would need to be made by a machine shop since I lack the tools.

I could still have the framing for two tracks but rails only on one side. I have seen bridges like this.
Larry G

Last edited on Fri Sep 2nd, 2016 07:29 am by Larry G

oztrainz
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Hi Larry,
The French Group Escadrille St Michel had this type of incline running back in 2005. Have a look at http://fdelaitre.org/lpf2//ESM-06-70.jpg for an idea of how the incline and tracks were set up.

My understanding is that the counterweight ran on small N-scale wheels?. Some of our European members on here should have seen this layout and may be able to contribute further.

Last edited on Fri Sep 2nd, 2016 08:02 am by oztrainz

oztrainz
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Hi Larry,
I have put together some track options for you please see the attached file.

Option 1 - as proposed by yourself. This is the simplest option but it relies on a couple of operational factors:
1 - all wagons will be propelled or pushed towards the incline. If the wagons are towed to the incline top or bottom, then the loco is in the way and you cannot get the train wagons to the incline.
2 - the locomotives at each either the top or the bottom will have multiple wagons attached to them. For small narrow-gauge locomotives, the brakes are usually pretty basic so it makes sense to stash the full wagons in the sidings and move them one at a time to or from the incline while keeping the empty wagons against the locomotive.

Option 2 - Assuming wagons are towed to the incline bottom this track layout gives you the ability to get your train locomotive to the other end of the train so that the incline bottom can be worked. Otherwise it is the same as Option 1

Option 3 - Again this option relies on trains being propelled to the incline, however with this option only 1 wagon is against the locomotive at any time. The 3-way turnout saves the full length of 1 turnout at both the top and bottom of the incline and gives you most siding length for least space.

Before the incline starts an arriving empty wagon train is stabled in the empty wagon siding at the bottom of the incline and at at the top of the incline an arriving full wagon train has been parked in the full wagon siding.

At the top of the incline, an arriving empty wagon is picked up and shunted to the empty wagon siding, dropped off and the loco runs out and then across to the full wagon siding, picks up a full wagon and the spots it on the incline car deck, the the loco backs off and the waits for the next arriving empty wagon. At the bottom of the incline. the operation is duplicated but the "full" and "empty" terms are reversed. :2t:

Hint - to prevent "accidents" and "long drops" it might be "smart idea" to run separate dedicated controllers for the top and bottom of the incline

Over to you for your consideration ;)

Attachment: Appetite Incline1a.jpg (Downloaded 68 times)

oztrainz
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Replacement for earlier duplicate post -

Hi Larry and all,
:!::!: as a replacement for a grooved drum - got an old fishing reel that moves the line across the drum as it is wound in? Replace the hand crank with a gearhead motor and it just might work. The grooving is simply to ensure that the haulage rope doesn't get bound up by overlapping wraps when the haulage rope is fed out.

Another alternative for the winding drum is to look for a length of machined rod or a large bolt with a fine thread at a hardware store. Use a smaller diameter machined rod with a finer thread to power the traveller block. For a larger diameter rod with a coarser thread, you will need a longer piece of machined rod.

Some maths for you- realistically you only need to roll out a length of haulage rope that is the same length as the "straight line" travel distance the incline car has to move between the top and bottom of the incline - = L

For a drum of diameter D, L = n times (Pi) times D where Pi multiplied by D gives you the circumference or the amount of rope stored in one wrap of the winder drum

so n = the number of turns of the groove to wind out the correct length of haulage rope = 7L divided by 22D

Now if you multiply N by the threads/inch or threads/mm of the machined thread this gives you the minimum length of winder drum you need if you use a machined thread for a winder drum :2t:

Is your head hurting yet?? :P It really is just simple schoolboy maths applied to model railways. ;)

Last edited on Fri Sep 2nd, 2016 03:33 pm by oztrainz

Larry G
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John,
All good suggestions.

I took a look at the French incline photo, lots of great information there. I had not thought of orienting the incline to be loaded from the side.

Option #2 with a locomotive escape track at top and bottom seems the best idea. I have the room to build this arrangement.

A fishing reel with a geared down motor sure seems to be a workable option. Now I need to find a low priced fishing reel.

Simple schoolboy math... perfect, I was a simple schoolboy.

Larry G

Last edited on Fri Sep 2nd, 2016 08:07 pm by Larry G

Si.
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" prefect "

They used to steal the milk at my school !

:moose:

Si.

oztrainz
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Hi Larry,

:Crazy::!: CHEAP approach for a grooved winding drum fabricated without a machine shop -
1 - Find a suitable tin can
2 - Cover the side of the can with cardboard/thin stryene or similar so that any ridges in the side of the can are smoothed over
3 - For your chosen haulage rope, start at one end of the can, and glue on end of the haulage rope to the end of the can and wind around the can so that the wraps touch each other. Apply glue or superglue to the rope around the circumference of the can and allow to dry. What you now have is a groove that is spaced exactly for your haulage rope.
4 - Now the next trick is to mount the drum away from the incline far enough so that the angle between where the rope leaves the drum to the sheave at the top of the incline is small enough that the incline rope is not dragged sideways enough that it interferes and tangles with the next wrap still on the winding drum.
5 - Now for a balanced incline you need enough groove for the entire run of the incline either side of a central position on the drum. You will be feeding onto and off each side of the groove - one way to the traverser car and the other way to the travelling counterweight. The rope on the drum appears to travel from one end towards the other as the drum turns. You are relying on the friction between the haulage rope and the "rope guide" grooves glued to the drum. With more than 3 wraps around the drum and the relatively low weights of what we are moving, slipping should not be a problem. Have a look at the Koepe winder at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoist_(mining) for inspiration. For this type of a setup, 3 turns around the middle of the winding drum should be sufficient to keep the friction to the drum. Now remember those maths earlier. You will need enough groove either side of a central position to handle the full length of incline rope each side of that central position where the 3 wraps are on the drum. :2t:
6 - For the more simple powered drum hoist, secure one end of the incline haulage rope to the drum in the groove at one end of the can. Take 3 turns around the drum and run your haulage rope out to the traverser car at the bottom of the incline. This is the most rope you will need for this set up. :2t:

Surprising what happens when you make some z's. I ought to slumber more often :bg:

Clear as mud??

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Another source of free geared down 12 V DC motors is your local mechanic or junkyard. Ask for power window mechanisms. Usually the wire actuator goes bad but the motor itself is almost indestructible. They look the same across brands and models and have a very convenient mounting bracket that can be cut an drilled to fit endless configurations.
Jose.

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Thank you, John & Jose, more good ideas to explore. I can see that building this incline will only be half the battle. Making the thing run right will be the other half. All good clean fun... I hope.

Larry

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Hey if it was easy, everyone would have an incline :bg:

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I intend to build an incline on my layout, but a smaller version... an inclined shaft mine. There's a good video on youtube of a neat version.

Larry G
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Hey Ken,

Do you plan to have a cutaway view of your incline so the cars can be seen going down into the mine?

Larry

Larry G
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 I wanted to run my little loco to clear the cobwebs, so I spiked down the first 3' of rail about two weeks ago. Loco ran a little rough at first but got smother the more I ran the thing.

Larry G

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Another view... Larry G

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oztrainz
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HI Larry,
If you are running volts to the rails on that loco, try some graphite on the rail heads. Get a 2B or 4B grade graphite pencil from an art store or Dick Blicks. They are only a few bucks and you will be amazed at how much they improve your running and reduce the amount of rail cleaning you have to do in the future,

IF your loco is battery under radio control, the smoother performance is probably due to the grease in the loco gearbox softening up after some use.

Larry G
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John, no RC or batteries just rail powered. Neither of my battery outline locos has run much so a break-in run is called for. I'll pickup a couple graphite pencils next time in am in Rapid City. I actually live in the foothills just north of Rapid.

I have been working on extending the backdrop down behind the incline. Getting the large clumsy work finished before tackling the more delicate incline structure. Still brain-storming, looking for a way to mass produce scale size structural beams and girders. A jig to hold the strips of plastic in alignment should be a good place to start.
Larry

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Backdrop has been extended all the way to the bottom of the incline.

Cliff side has been formed with cardboard strips hot glued together.

Larry G

Attachment: DSC00367.jpg (Downloaded 102 times)

Last edited on Sun Sep 11th, 2016 10:04 pm by Larry G

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Plaster cloth has covered the cardboard to form a hard shell. Plaster castings will be added to detail the cliff side.

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Hi Larry.

How about ... Quango Mining Corp. ??

:moose:

Si.

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Si,
Not understanding your suggestion, "QUANGO mining corp."

Larry G

Last edited on Mon Sep 12th, 2016 10:24 pm by Larry G

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Hi Larry,
This might help spell things out for you.

Q-uasi
A-utonomous
N-on
G-overnment
O-rganisation

A government-backed organisation that is supposedly independent of the government and government influence. (The Board of said QANGO is usually stacked with government appointees/supporters/influence-pedlars etc).

Worst case - a "protected" outfit that can do anything it wants without fear of any consequences or repercussions. Sound like anything in your neck of the woods?

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Not to mention : grossly inflated salary, pension & holiday 'entitlements'; almost total immunity from dismissal no matter how incompetent or crooked ; etc. etc.

Sounds like you have similar in the Land of Oz John ?

....& now back to railway modelling, Regards,    Michael


Si.
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Thanks John.

Hi Larry.

I nearly didn't Post it, cos I liked it so much myself !
Mysterious Moose Mountain needs a good QANGO to 'mine' the taxpayers pockets !

Sorry, I put a U in, otherwise it thought it didn't look like a proper word.
I'm sure that the Quango Mining Corp. could, and probably does, have a excellent record, when it comes to shafting different locations.

Just thought of the name, having had a conversation with a friend about E.U. sponsored QANGOs here in the U.K.
Looks like they just got their ticket punched though.
Don't worry, more will spring up to replace them !!

:moose:

Si.

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Yes, we have the same sort of behind the scenes, under the table, hanky-panky going on too. Of course every one involved denies everything... end of discussion, no news story either. :f: :bang: :us:

Back to something we can control, trains. :2t:

Larry G

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For Larry--

I was having trouble leveling my WAL-MART sheet cork roadbed. It doesn't sand very well. My solution, cover the entire area with redwood ties that sand very well. Now I have a level surface to spike my rails to.

Once the rails are in place I will plank over the entire area with scale lumber so the odd placement of the ties will not show.


LARRY G


Larry G
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Larry the troublemaker here. The edited picture of the redwood ties that I sanded down to make a level surface to spike the rails to.
Larry G

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W C Greene
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Nice, Larry. But why would you want nice level track? I like funky, nasty, unlevel track myself!

Keep on going, looking great!
Woodie

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Woodie, I like your funky unlevel track too. Hope to copy your lead on other parts of my layout. Too much track in the compact hoist area so need it to be level.

Larry

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I have always sanded my ties, after they are glued down.

Ever since I escaped the clutches of HO fiber tie flex track, that is.

But you kiddies probably never saw that.

Herb

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Herb, I remember those fiber tie days all to well.

Sanding wood ties should be done to level the tops of your ties. My problem was uneven substrate, so this compounded the usual unevenness.

Larry G

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Not much progress on the layout due to family coming for a visit.

For those not familiar with the wide variety of rock types and formations in the Black Hills I offer these recent photos.
Larry G

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another view... note the trees growing within the rocks.


Attachment: DSC00338.jpg (Downloaded 66 times)

Last edited on Sun Sep 18th, 2016 08:31 pm by Larry G

Larry G
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another one... note different rock types mixed together with a tree growing within the rocks. If I were to model this scene, I'm sure a rivet counter or two would chime in and tell me no such scene could possibly exist.

picture taken at Mt. Rushmore monument, Black Hills of South Dakota, U.S.A.   Larry

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Last edited on Sun Sep 18th, 2016 08:28 pm by Larry G

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a wide view of a rock mountain in the Black Hills. Picture found on the internet, I do not know who took it.
Larry

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Water falls and rapids are also part of the Black Hills landscape...


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a valley within the Black Hills... Larry

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Larry G
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Getting back to model railroading after family has gone home.
Adding some rock castings to the hill side...

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Larry G
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Same hill...

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Larry G
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I ran across this web site for the HUNT SYSTEM, very unusual, reverse flanges on the wheels. Check out the turnouts (points).
Larry G

http://www.narrowgaugechaos.com/RPC/Material/IndustRREquip/CWHunt/CWHuntIndex.htm

Larry G
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I stopped by the visitors center in Lead, SD and shot a few more pictures. This one shows the overhead roll-up door at the end of the cage.  Larry

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The opposite end... Larry

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This shot shows details on the side of the cage... Larry

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This one shows what part of the mine looks like after the Sanford laboratory people renovated their area. Note the 18" gauge tracks cemented into the floor... Larry

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Last edited on Fri Sep 30th, 2016 07:10 pm by Larry G

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Looks a bit too antiseptic to be a mine--oh well, a case of the prototype needing weathering?

Herb

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Herb, it looks antiseptic because it is no longer a mine. Now it is the Sanford deep underground research laboratory.

Larry

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I've been taking a break from my Appetite Mine layout and working on my HO scale urban switching layout. I will get back to the Gn15 mine layout in a week or two.

Larry Gant

Attachment: DSC03260.jpg (Downloaded 140 times)

Last edited on Tue Oct 4th, 2016 04:50 am by Larry G

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Hi Larry

That looks FREAKIN' AWESOME !!

I swear...
...if I wasn't a rinky-dink '30s narrow gauger...
...Moooooooodern HO switching would be my friend.

Maybe I could have both ?

DON'T GET ME STARTED !!

:moose:

Si.

Hope the guy in the V.W. doesn't select reverse by mistake !!

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Si, this shot will give you some idea of how my two layouts sit in relation to each other.
Each layout fills about half my train room. I only saved the downtown retail section when we downsized to a twin home. The remainder of the HO layout will be new construction, underway.   Larry G

Attachment: DSC00419.jpg (Downloaded 129 times)

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Even a small mining tramway needs to maintain its track. The Royal Shafting Mining Co. uses these two little cars to take care of their track, bridges, etc.  Larry

Attachment: DSC00434.jpg (Downloaded 112 times)

Last edited on Mon Oct 17th, 2016 05:01 am by Larry G

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my neighbor tore down his old redwood fence so i took the pieces  I have cut redwood ties from the pieces if you need weathered you cut so ithe weathered side is where you need it other wise surface all 4 sides knot free would be nice but since your ties are less than 2" long you can get a bunch of them cutting around the knots  but i am cheap so i go for free or low cost

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Charles, I am with you on the free stuff. All my ties were cut from scrap redwood.
I do need to weather my ties though, their looking way to new. My layout does represent a large well maintained operation so some new ties would be installed here and there.  Larry

Last edited on Wed Oct 19th, 2016 06:09 pm by Larry G

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Would be wise to cook the ties in the oven before installing them. You don't want to bring wildlife into the house.
Jose.

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Too late, I cut my ties over 10 years ago when I lived in Minneapolis. If any wildlife was in them they are back in Minnesota. Cooking new ties would be a good idea however. Larry

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Cool scene. Your crewman appears to be a rough customer...is that a Tecate beer?

Woodie

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Woodie, that beer in the rough customers hand can be whatever is to your liking.

Life keeps getting in the way, but I did manage to finish a bit more work around the bridge area.

As the story goes, the miners were having problems with washouts. So, wood retaining walls were installed. Then the walls started to give way. So, a few tons of rip-rap were dumped over the walls to help stabilize them. This will also keep erosion under control, they hope.
Larry

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Great work Larry, :2t:
please keep the updates coming, as and when you can,

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With all the fantastic fall weather we've been having here in the "hills" I haven't done much modeling.

I have started to lay rails at the top of the incline. It's been close to thirty years since I hand built a small scale turnout. Back in the day we just soldered a bit of brass between the points. This worked ok but I was wondering if there is a better way of connecting the points together???

Larry G

Last edited on Fri Nov 11th, 2016 03:27 am by Larry G

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I am doing something I did on a layout about 50 years ago. To give the backdrop some 3D effect I have applied sheetrock mud in the shape of distance mountains. Once trees and rock outcroppings are painted on it should be very convincing.
Larry Gant

Attachment: DSC00455.jpg (Downloaded 96 times)

W C Greene
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Yep, I think that will work out nicely. I have been thinking about the same thing on my layout also, just getting up the guts to throw spackle on the wall!

Woodie

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Woodie, no need to smear anything on your walls. Get  some 1/8" foamcore, cut it to shape, cover that with joint compound. Use small bits of double sticky tape to hold your land forms to the wall. When it comes time to remove your backdrop, little or no wall repair needed.
Larry G

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Finished painting the base colors and a few little tiny trees onto my backdrop today. I think it looks very presentable. Scale trees and underbrush will be added in front of the backdrop also.
Larry Gant

Attachment: DSC00459.jpg (Downloaded 76 times)

Last edited on Fri Nov 18th, 2016 07:07 am by Larry G

Larry G
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Finished painting all the trees now and the entire thing looks great as far as I am concerned.
Larry

Attachment: DSC00461.jpg (Downloaded 77 times)

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Damn great idea! I will steal,...er...borrow your techniques. Thanks for this, I will do some & post photos in my thread afterward.

Woodie

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Larry, that's looking a lot like the Black Hills, great job!!

I almost have to look away, I miss those mountains too much!

--James

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That is a great backdrop! Although a picture is 2d it realy has a 3d effect.

Alwin

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I have about 12' of "main line" in and working reliably. So, I am expanding the scenery a bit farther down the line. The Black Hills have rock outcroppings that can be almost anywhere. Level ground or mountain side, doesn't matter. These outcroppings are very Black Hills, so my next scenery area will have some of these features.
This first picture shows the beginning stages of this outcropping area.

Larry G

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Last edited on Fri Nov 25th, 2016 04:52 am by Larry G

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My first thought was to have a tunnel through one of the outcroppings, I didn't like the look of it. So, convert the tunnel into a deep cut, I liked that much better. No tunnels will be in this corner location.

Larry Gant

Attachment: DSC00468.jpg (Downloaded 126 times)

Last edited on Fri Nov 25th, 2016 04:50 am by Larry G

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A better view of the deep cut that replaced the ill conceived tunnel.
Larry G

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A little plaster cloth goes a long way. This scene my look a bit strange compared to other mountains. Large rock outcroppings such as these are common in the Black Hills.
Larry Gant

Attachment: DSC00472.jpg (Downloaded 113 times)

Last edited on Sat Nov 26th, 2016 09:25 am by Larry G

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That's some rugged landscape they inhabit.

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That's starting to look like the needles.  For those unaware, there's a section of the Black Hills known as the needles, large granite spires that rise tens or hundreds of feet and surrounded by stands of ponderosa pine.

--James

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Something like the needles will come just down the line.

Right now I am going for the more rounded formations in the Sylvan Lake area. I plan to have a small lake and a dam built into the rocks like the one at Sylvan. Because of space limitations, I need to cram my scenes together. A mountain resort will be crammed in next to the little lake. After that, a section of needles will be built. Then a curved trestle with a tunnel at the end of the trestle. If I can work it out I hope to have a cutaway to view the tunnel interior. After the tunnel will come the Appetite Mine area.

Over at the incline hoist area, the incline needs to be built. Then the entire lower level will have to be figured out and built. Loads of buildings will be needed to flesh out the layout also.

All I have to do now is live long enough to finish this thing. But, I am having fun with Gn15.

Larry Gant

Last edited on Sun Nov 27th, 2016 09:46 pm by Larry G

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I found that I needed to widen my roadbed to provide room for wide cars and ballast.
Cardboard boxes were cut to size and hot glued together along either side of the roadbed.
Then the tops of the extensions were painted with wall paint to seal them.

A concrete culvert, made of 1/2" foam, can be seen center left. This allows water to flow under the track and into the dam lake.

Attachment: DSC00474 (1).jpg (Downloaded 88 times)

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The cliff face was looking lifeless, so I reached back in time to retrieve an old idea very common in the 40s and 50s. Crumpled aluminum foil. Small sections of foil are covered with a thin layer of Plaster of Paris. Allow it to become slightly firm. Then carefully lay it on your land form. It's ok to come back latter and apply another layer even if the next layer overlaps the first layer a bit.

This first shot shows the foil pieces ready for plaster.
Larry G

Attachment: DSC00477.jpg (Downloaded 60 times)

Larry G
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This shot shows the foil applied to the cliff face. When you need to cover a section of your scenery with a texture but not major rock outcroppings, crumpled foil is a cheap, fast way to do that.
Larry G
 

Attachment: DSC00476.jpg (Downloaded 111 times)

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The plaster has set, foil removed and castings have been blended in to older castings. Next, a coat of paint to tie it all together.
Larry G

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Hi Larry:  Love watching yours and Bob R's threads.  Thanks for sharing.  This industrial stuff in larger scales is very, very tempting and you guys are doing it so well.  Talk soon   Dick w

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Dick,
If you should give into temptation and try a little Gn15, a couple suggestions. First, make sure to use a good running mechanism for your first critter (locomotive). Second, start small. Maybe just a oval or 6' of straight HO track to test run your loco and cars. One turnout to make sure you trains will run through that OK would also be a good idea.

Larry G

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Hi Larry :wave:

Nice work on the Christmas scene ^^^ ;)

Don't forget 1:35 for 'industrial large scale' as well.
LOTS & LOTS of parts, vehicles, figures etc. available.
And CHEAP, due to the huge popularity of military modeling.
Just a thought ... "works for me" as Hanibal said in the A-Team :bg:

The 1-switch layout huh ?
Lance Mindheim, eat yer heart out.
And there's me thinking you could only do that in HO ;)

Keep up the good work Larry !

:moose:

Si.

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Hi Larry:  Thanks for your thoughtful reply and suggestions.  I have done some work over the years in ON2, ON30, 1/35 N2 (pick up a pattern here?) and 7/8's n2.  Some buildings and mockups have also been done in 1/2" - yeah, I know - a real rubber scaler.  Now I am leaning toward an estate/industrial 1n 7/8's using O track (SE 18).  This stuff is big but it is fun to work in, scratch building and all plus mechanisms are available in the 16 mm community.  I have a rather large area in the basement that will support 48 inch radius running and the dreaming and building goes on.  Thanks  Talk soon   Dick w.

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Hey Dick: Two foot gauge is obviously where your main interest lies.

I had a opportunity to see some 7/8n2 models when a guy brought some to one of our garden railway meets in Minnesota. Yes, they were very large. I briefly considered 7/8n2 but was already deeply involved in G scale garden railroading.

I started my model railroading adventure in 1947 with a Lionel set. then HO standard gauge and on to N scale, On2, On30, G in the garden, back to HO and now Gn15 plus HO scale.

Also, a stab at a ride-on railroad with 7 1/2" gauge track back in the 70s. I managed to build a oval of about 300' of welded steel channel iron with steel cross ties sitting on treated redwood ties. Scale rail was more than I could afford. Had the frame of a loco operational and three cars, two were stolen one night.

If I had the funds and space, I would be building a full size 15" line outdoors.

Larry Gant

Last edited on Mon Dec 12th, 2016 05:50 am by Larry G

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ashtrain wrote: Hi Larry:  Thanks for your thoughtful reply and suggestions.  I have done some work over the years in ON2, ON30, 1/35 N2 (pick up a pattern here?) and 7/8's n2.  Some buildings and mockups have also been done in 1/2" - yeah, I know - a real rubber scaler.  Now I am leaning toward an estate/industrial 1n 7/8's using O track (SE 18).  This stuff is big but it is fun to work in, scratch building and all plus mechanisms are available in the 16 mm community.  I have a rather large area in the basement that will support 48 inch radius running and the dreaming and building goes on.  Thanks  Talk soon   Dick w.
Not to hijack Larry's thread but....
I have also played with some larger industrial.  I called it 1/12th but it is likely 7/8ths. Scratch bulit with battery radio control using code 148 O guage flex track.
Bob

Attachment: 20150422_141652.jpg (Downloaded 59 times)

ashtrain
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Hi Gentlemen:  I'm afraid I am guilty of hijacking Larry's thread.  In the next couple days , I shall start a new topic about my thoughts on a 7/8th's indoor layout and we can all chime in there.  Bob, Thanks for your voice too.  Both you and Larry are doing great jobs and it is just a joy to watch you using your creativity and passion for model building - an inspiration.    Talk soon   Dick w

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I've been fooling around with this new section for a while and finally created something that looks half way decent. The unfinished area (in blue) will be a lake with a dam to hold all that water back.
The Black Hills have many unusual rock outcroppings, some that look similar to the ones seen in this picture.      Larry G

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Last edited on Sat Dec 24th, 2016 03:16 am by Larry G

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A closer look at the lake area.  Larry G

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hi larry:  Looks real good.  Thanks for posting  Talk soon   Dick w.

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We had a blizzard here in the Black Hills so didn't leave the house for two days. Made more progress in the dam area.

My grand parents had a cabin on Big Stone Lake. This lake straddles the border between South Dakota and Minnesota. So, in honer of my grand parents I am naming the lake behind the dam: Big Stone Lake. Like wise, I am calling the canyon behind the lake: Big Stone Canyon, because of all the very large rock formations.
Larry G

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Moving forward with the dam area. If you haven't guessed, scenery is my favorite part of building a layout.  Larry G

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Rocks have been "painted" with a thin coat of sheet rock mud. The dam was coated with white caulk to give the foam a more firm surface. Note: a natural spillway was left in place to drain excess water. It can bee seen just below the concrete culvert. Next, texture will be added to the rocks and the dam will be colored and weathered.

 The dam was built to retain water for use at the Royal Shafting Mine and Big Stone Lodge.

Question: how would the water be taken from the lake and delivered to where it was needed?  I'm assuming that pipes would be used with a water pump to push the water up hill.

Would the pipe be installed into the bottom of the dam or directly into the lake above the dam?

The mine and lodge would be closed in the winter so pipes could be above ground and uninsulated.   Larry G

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Last edited on Wed Dec 28th, 2016 10:42 pm by Larry G

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Larry, how about a cool little pump house? You might have the door open so you can show off the pump. The water pipe might be in the lake, not at the bottom of the dam where debris and water pressure could cause problems. But then I'm not a hydraulic engineer, I just like pump houses and details.
The house might be a little brick affair or maybe stones with a corrugated roof. It might even look like an outhouse with pipes coming out.

Woodie

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As usual, I didn't plan for a pump house. Now, the only practical spot would be on top of the concrete culvert. This might actually look cool. The door would face the track so viewing the interior won't be possible. Maybe a window facing the lake would work. I'm thinking two large flexible intake hoses on a raft in the lake. And two steel pipes from the pump house up to the lodge and mine. Throw in a couple of inline gate valves to complete the look.

Larry G

Last edited on Sat Dec 31st, 2016 07:37 pm by Larry G

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Started my little pump house and am mounting it on top of the concrete culvert. I used Bob R cereal box card idea to make the lap siding, works well. Still need a roof and pipes from the lake into the pump house. Eventually, pipes up to the lodge and Appetite Mine.

Any one know if a water pump can draw water up from a lake and then push it up hill with the same pump? Or, will I need a second pump? The pumps won't show, I need the info to keep any rivet counters at bay.
Larry G

Attachment: DSC00511.jpg (Downloaded 45 times)

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Nice work Larry.

A single pump can be used. The maximum height difference between the lower level (the lake) and the highest (the mine) is 10 meter. It doesn't matter on wich level the pump is.
In sewer systems most of the times two pumps are used which are each other's reserve (I am only sure about this for the Netherlands). By placing (and closing) valves one pump can be maintained while the other is still working. At least 4 valves are needed. But then you also want some electronics to switch between the pumps, otherwise one will be unused.

So it depends on how important the supply of water to the mine is? Can it be intermittent to maintain the pump? If the answer is yes, then one pump can be used.

Alwin

Last edited on Fri Jan 6th, 2017 01:53 am by Alwin

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Thank you Elwin. Two pumps it is, at least that will be my story if any one should ask. The Big Stone Lodge will need water round the clock while the mine could be intermittent. I am thinking of a storage tank at the mine and the lodge. This would provide short term water and allow both pumps to be shut down at the same time, if need be.

Does this make sense? Would valves be placed in the main supply line for the same reason, maintenance of the pipe?  I plan to have the piping run next to the track since this would not require much extra earth work. Exposed pipes and valves will add man made detail that should prove interesting viewing.

The pump house will need a small deck at the door, over the rocks. Also, from the deck, a walk way bridge will lead down to and above the dam to allow for visual inspection and or maintenance of the dam.

Did you notice, a steel railing has been added to prevent any one from falling off the track bed and into the creek below.
Larry G

Attachment: DSC00512.jpg (Downloaded 44 times)

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The very nature of a narrow gauge industrial tramway is grt-er-done with the least expense (with in reason). A right-of-way just wide enough for a train to pass is good enough. No groomed ballast or decorative bridges. If a tramway is very long or very busy it might have some sort of signaling system, but most lines do not.

If you can lay your hands on a copy of The Narrow Gauge & Short line Gazette, Jan/Feb 1993, I have a tramway article (A Twin Cities 2-Footer) beginning on page 74. It's about a two foot line but has all the elements of many smaller gauge tramways.

At the Royal Shafting Mining Co., the tramway is just a tool used to get-er-done and has no name. The line is just long enough to justify a very basic signaling system.

As I said earlier, close clearances are common on narrow gauge tramways.    Larry Gant

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That last photo is great!

There are not many valves in the main pipe. Unless you expect many damage tot the pipe (falling rocks?). A sewer system is cleaned once in a while (timeperiod once in 1-5 year, it depends on the situation). But a clean water system don't have debris settling down.
So maybe just after the pumps and by the mine entrance, so you can shut down the water supply in an emergency situation.

Alwin

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I keep rethinking this water system. I want it to look like something that would have been designed by a professional hydrologist.

To extend the life of the water pumps, I am thinking of placing a large water tank up on a hill side (that does not exist yet) close to the pump house. Them use the pumps to fill the tank and once filled, turn the pumps off. Gravity alone should push the water up to the lodge and the mine. I think this is how the water tank in our town works, it's also on a hillside.

A small water tank in the rafters of the pump house would be filled each time the pumps are used. The water from this tank would be used to re prime the intake pipe if needed.
Larry G

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Just for the fun of it, a over head view of a up hill train passing the pump house. Larry

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Larry, the scene is coming together nicely! You are right, small tramways have very close clearances...that's what makes them so cool! The pump house is just what is needed here, pipes and other details will certainly add to the realism. Excellent modeling.

Woodie

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:moose::moose::moose::moose::moose:

Si.

PUMP UP THE JAM ! ;)

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I have finished the pump house and started the deck off the front door.
Larry G

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Also started to extend the scenery above and below the track on the right side.
Larry G

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Finished the new scenery. It was necessary that I build this scene since a water tank needs to go on the new hill above the track. A pipe will come from the pump house, up the side of the nearest hill, over the track to the water tank. Then, from the tank, down to track side. From this point the pipe will follow along the far side of the track to the Big Stone Lodge.
Larry G

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A closer view of the new hill. The tank will go about where the deer fawn is standing.
Larry G

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Last edited on Fri Jan 20th, 2017 09:03 pm by Larry G

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As I posted over on Bob R's thread, "I don't run steam at the moment, but just might in the future. To that end, I will make room for a turntable, water spout, coal pile, ash pit and sand house at each end of the track. Nothing fancy, just the basics. Even if I never run steam, these facilities won't look out of place. Many standard gauge lines here in the U.S. still had some of their steam era structures in place well into the 90s. Here in Rapid City the old roundhouse is still in use. To bad, from a rail fans point of view, the turntable has been removed."

Larry G

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After looking at the new hill for a few days, I decided it was too small when compared to the hills on the left. So, make the thing bigger.
Larry G

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Finished 'growing' the hill, now I need to make some sort of water tank. Then, the layout needs trees, bushes, weeds and all sorts of clutter.
Larry G

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Last edited on Thu Feb 9th, 2017 02:08 am by Larry G

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I'm back, life has really been getting in the way. Not much of anything done on the water tank.    Larry G

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Progress has been made in other areas. I decided to split the table over my modeling desk. The Big Stone Mountain Lodge will go on the far side with the Appetite Mine on the near side.
Larry G


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Last edited on Tue Mar 14th, 2017 02:02 am by Larry G

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The big change is in the hoist area. To have enough room for the top yard I had to remove part of my HO urban switching layout. This part was over the bottom yard area. Then, I needed to have room for proper trackage at the bottom yard. The only way I can see to this is to go back to my original vertical hoist idea. So, the needed changes have begun.
Larry Gant

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A broader view of the changes.  A bridge will extend out from the new pink foam and connect with the vertical hoist. This should look very high with nothing but blue sky behind it.   Larry G

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Hi Larry,

If you decide to make your vertical hoist operational can I suggest that you revisit Jaxcilliest Enterprises at http://www.freerails.com/view_post.php?post_id=88934 and the Stamping Ground on the Gnatterbox forum. There is some good information there on how to manage the cage running in the shaft,

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Thank you John, I see that roller chain was used in the Jaxcilliest hoist, I'll need to get some of that. Somewhere in my stash I have a slow running 12v motor that I will need to find. I don't know if building a vertical hoist will be any easier than a incline hoist, time will tell. Larry Gant

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Hi Larry,
this was the Tamiya chain and sprocket set I used for Jaxcilliest.  http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/0-tamx7042.html There is enough links to make up about 3' of chain. It is hideously expensive. :bg: 


We are using the same chain under the track on the Corrimal Incline with the sprockets de=pointed. 

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The two new backdrops are in place and painted sky blue. This side of the table top will have the mountain lodge scene. The space is 6'6"x13". The backdrop is 20" tall. Not much room for a large complex of buildings in 1/2" scale. Much of it will need to be building flats and painted on the backdrop.    Larry G

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This side will have the mine scene. The space is 6'6"x22". A large, successful mining operation, such as I hope to model, will also need to be compressed quite a lot.
Larry G

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I tend to keep several projects going at one time. That way, no single project can become overwhelming or boring. This photo shows the "dinky" shed at the top yard near the vertical hoist.  It still needs windows, doors and a roof.   Larry G

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Looking good Larry!

Alwin

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Hi Larry :wave:


:moose::moose::moose::moose::moose:


The scene looks GREAT ! :bg:

The background works nice, cool painting.

Love your 'loose rocks' & walling/cribbing.


Natural. :cool:


Si.

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A little progress in the dam area. Beginning stages of a stairway and inspection landing on top of the dam. Larry G


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If you need diamond safety tread plate steel, giving this a try. I used wedding veil fabric fixed to my plastic steps with liquid cement. After this dried, I painted the steps with Floquil paint. To my eye, this gives a good representation of safety tread in the larger scales.

The wedding veil fabric should also work well for chain link fencing.


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A closer view of the steps.  Larry Gant


Attachment: DSC00585.jpg (Downloaded 79 times)

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Hi Larry :wave:


Lookin' very nice !


Cool idea with the fabric.


I have some 'stretchy white plastic mesh tube'.


( great description huh ? )


Here in Britain, the stores often sell 3 garlic-bulbs, in such packaging.


It is polythene though, probably the veil fabric is polyester I guess.


Glues better, no doubt.


The garlic packaging is 'stretchy' though, good for fences maybe.


:moose:


Si.


Nice scene coming together there Larry. :bg:

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After banging my shoulder on this corner many times, I decided to make a curved corner.

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I also decided to lower the corner a bit to gain some scenery below track level.
Flat, level terrain is not very interesting to my eye, so I try to build below and above track level whenever possible.    Larry G

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Last edited on Mon May 15th, 2017 03:12 am by Larry G

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Very effective "view" past the end of the divider. Almost like looking at real scenery through a window.

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Hi Larry :wave:


Lookin' good. :bg:


I know what you mean about 'above/bellow' scenery, nice move on that modded area.

I see now your 'mainline' goes around quite a length, nice !


Quite a stash of scenic material in jars, by the looks of things. :shocked:

I have been hoarding plastic peanut butter jars myself for a while now ! ;)



:moose: :moose: :moose: :moose: :moose:


Si.

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With the arrival of summer, I find it hard to spend time down in the basement. I have made a little progress. a bunch of ties are in place at the mountain lodge site and also the Appetite Mine site. Started work on the "Needles" area that will be the transition between the lodge and mine. The needles will also cover the end of the divider backdrop as seen in this pic.   Larry G

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With all our hot weather this last month, I found it more pleasant to stay inside. So, I've been working on the Royal Shafting Mining Co's Appetite Mine layout. Finished the track work at the Big Stone Mountain Lodge. Just need to wire it now since I am using track power. Trackage at the mine area is close to being finished as well.

My other area of progress has been the "needles" transition area between the lodge and the mine. For those of you that are unfamiliar with the geology of the Black Hills: the "needles" are very large Granite monoliths found in the central part of the Black Hills. These formations were eroded to their present splendor over millions of years.

The following photos will show my version of the "needles" area.

Larry Gant



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Last edited on Thu Aug 3rd, 2017 08:08 pm by Larry G

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Over view from the lodge side of the layout. The unfinished cardboard webbing will become tunnel #1.    Larry G


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Last edited on Fri Aug 4th, 2017 03:30 am by Larry G

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Tunnel #2, cut through one of the "needles" to large to blast out of existence.


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From the mine side of my layout.   Larry G


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Another view of the same area.   Larry G


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Hi Larry
Well that certainly takes your layout to "new heights" :2t: 

Please keep the updates coming. 

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I found this on the internet, (no name for the photographer). This is a pic of part of the "needles" area of the Black Hills, the inspiration for my layout. Those are 50' evergreens at the bottom of the "needles".

Larry Gant

Attachment: needles00027-sd-tourism-4x3.jpg (Downloaded 74 times)

Last edited on Thu Aug 17th, 2017 07:04 am by Larry G

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The next several pictures will illustrate the steps I used to build my twin tunnels.
This first shot shows a form made from insulation foam.  Larry G


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Shot #2 shows wrinkled up foil wrapped around the form.

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Shot #3 is of the foil covered with Plaster of Paris and plaster cloth. I used 2 layers of the plaster with plaster cloth in between. The plaster cloth gives the plaster shell needed strength to withstand handling.

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This shot shows the shell removed from the mold.

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Cardboard webbing being built around the painted tunnel casting.

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Last edited on Sun Sep 10th, 2017 04:04 am by Larry G

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I thought the side wall of the tunnel looked far too thin, so I cut a 2x4 to shape and mounted it on edge to the side of the bench work. This allowed me to build a much thicker "needle".


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The finished tunnel through a very large "needle", 40" tall. The Needles Eye is a popular stopping point along the Needles Highway, so I included my version within this needle.
Larry Gant

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That's spectacular!

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Hi Larry :wave:



:moose::moose::moose::moose::moose:



Dunno if you've seen Neil Youngs 'Lionel' layout ?

I always thought his peaks looked pretty crazy !

But perhaps he was inspired by the Black Hills ?



Really nice Larry, a great subject for the mines scenery ! :)



:cool:



Si.

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The other side of the big needle. Note the smaller needles on the near side of the track. I have built these to give the impression that my little tramway is running through some rough terrain, not just on the edge of it.  Larry G

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A closer view of my version of the needles eye.  Not to be out done by mother nature, I also included a second, smaller, needles eye.   LG

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A closeup view through the twin tunnels.  LG

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Some may think it strange to build such a unlikely arrangement as twin tunnels through the needles with a bridge between them.

YES, there is a prototype for just about anything. Take note of the photo below the unfinished bridge. ( no name for the photographer)
Judging by the styling of the bridge railings, I would guess that this scene is located in India or maybe China, most likely a walking bridge. LG

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Last edited on Mon Sep 11th, 2017 03:21 am by Larry G

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This shot was taken before any coloring was done. The little mine motor gives scale to the tunnel openings. The bridge is 5.5" long.   LG

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This last shot is a end view of the needles area on my Appetite Mine layout.  Larry Gant

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Fascinating stuff Larry and most imaginative. This is developing into a stand out layout.

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Really like the tall peaks.  Not something that is often seen on a indoor layout.  I'm working on a desert canyon scene where the cliffs are about 18" tall. 

Keeps the photos coming!

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While looking through the South Dakota Tourism web site I found this shot of a bridge on Iron Mountain Road. Although not a rail bridge, it is very similar to my tramway bridge going straight into a tunnel.   LG

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I also found this shot on the South Dakota wed site. The actual Needles Eye.  LG

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Well, Haven't done too much, I did finished painting my needles. They look a lot better now. Still need weeds, trees and underbrush.  I see that Bob R just made a rusty junk pile. I need to do the same sort of thing. Junk, lots of rusty junk.

This shot is what you would see if you entered my train room. The tipper cars are stored with the hopper in the dumping position to prevent rain water from collecting inside.

The peanut butter jars, under the layout, hold scenery material.

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A closer view of the mine area. The blocks of "concrete", by the tipper cars, are footings for the mine's overhead loading bin.  Larry G


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Aerial shot showing the track layout in the mine area. Very simple, only three turnouts.
By keeping all the turnouts in one area it makes the trackage look more complicated than it actually is.

The figure is standing where a storage building will be built, eventually.
LG

Attachment: DSC00016 (1).jpg (Downloaded 84 times)

Last edited on Tue Sep 19th, 2017 12:33 am by Larry G

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Very, VERY cool Larry. One hell of a layout, the last shot showing the track arrangement is great.

Woodie

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While I might have made a junk pile - it does not compare with building Needles.  I was up there two years ago and must say, you have done a great job of recreating the spectacular scenery of the area.  I will have to look closer on the next trip.  I didn't see the railroad tracks through there on the last.  Of course they may have all been removed by now.

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Thanks, Woodie. The turnouts are all Peko #6 covered over with fine sand. All the other track is hand spiked rail on ties I cut from salvaged Redwood 1x6 planks.

Bob, As the story goes, in my little fantasy world, the mine, lodge and tramway are still very much still in operation. You will need to search the back country near Keystone to find my minimum gauge rail line. No roads enter the needles where the lodge and mine are located so not many visitors find their way back there.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it... until I change what little I have left of my mind.

Next time your in the "hills" give me a shout, I'll give you directions into the wilderness. We'll take a run up to the end of track, look out for the Rattle Snakes.

  LG

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Looking great Larry!

Alwin

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This aerial shot is a companion to the earlier shot. It shows the mine area from the opposite direction.  LG

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Larry,

Very impressive!:2t:  Don't know how you manage to keep everything so neat and organized.  My projects require a massive amount of disorganization and general sloppiness.

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Michael, don't be too impressed with my neatness. I only show scenes that are in order, not the messy areas, like my modeling desk. 

This old Air Force desk was bought used, way back when I was just 25, now I am 76. That's 51 years of model building in HO, N, On30, On2, G, HOn30 and Gn15. Yes, I am a rubber gauger.  LG
:)

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Last edited on Sat Sep 23rd, 2017 07:43 am by Larry G

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is that the "curse jar"?

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southpier, Curse Jar??? Sorry, I'm not following you, what is a Curse Jar????  Larry G

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Some of you may have noticed that I use a lot of sand as ground cover. This is only the first layer in most areas. Rocks, dirt and vegetation will be added as time goes on.

The sand isn't just any sand, it's fine grain Paver Set Polymeric Sand. Place the sand where you want it and spray on a little water, and that's it, no glue needed. It's meant for outdoor use, so holds up very well. The only draw back, it comes in 40 lb pails. I bought my pail for a large project, then found that it works great for ground cover on my layout. This sand may come in smaller containers, so check around.  Larry G

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Last edited on Sun Sep 24th, 2017 08:00 pm by Larry G

Larry G
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installed a outhouse at the mine location yesterday. Space is tight so had to squeeze it in on the edge of the layout.
Larry G

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Just barely enough room for the little structure. Note the TP inside.
LG

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The back side. LG

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Michael M
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Home Depot has that PermaSand at $20 for 40 pounds: http://www.homedepot.com/p/SAKRETE-PermaSand-40-lb-Paver-Joint-Sand-65470004/202070568


Since I'm building outside I just might try some.

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Finished the bridge between the two needles.  LG

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Fantastic!!

George

Larry G
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Finished a storage building for the Appetite Mine. It measures 8'x15' with 9' ceilings. The building has a foam core sub shell with strip wood and siding made from cereal box card stock, a idea picked up from Bob R.

This first shot shows the left side.


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Larry G
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This one is of the right side.  LG

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And the front, showing the double sliding doors. The roof is removable so I can finish the interior.

I can think of more comfortable places to lay down on the job than railroad ties. 
 LG



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Last edited on Mon Oct 23rd, 2017 07:29 am by Larry G

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Larry,

Not being familiar with the region that you're modeling do you find the stark mountains that you have to be on the bland side?  I have a canyon area with high cliffs that I'm modeling and I just feel that it needs some oomph.  I'm modeling basically desert scenery so I have to keep any plants on the sparse side.

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Storage shelves need to be filled just as soon as I can find things to fill them with. The front wall is also removable, for now. It will be glued in place once the interior is finished.  LG


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Larry G
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And a wide shot to finish up.  LG

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Michael, I agree, my needles are rather bland looking. Greenery of various types will be added as time allows. As you can see from this shot ( photographer unknown) of a section of the needles, the needles them selves have little to no vegetation on them. At the base is where all the plant life is found.   Larry G

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Larry G
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This is the Needles Eye Tunnel, ( photographer unknown) showing that little vegetation is present. This shot also shows that tunnels piercing the Needles, much as my tunnels do, is actually done here in the Black Hills.  LG

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Michael M
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Larry,

Thanks for posting those photos.  I'd have to say then you are right on the spot with your scenery.  Maybe a few pine trees at the base of your mountains. 

The area I'm modeling has no trees; just some scrub.  Well, like they say, it's a work in progress.

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Michael, I got to thinking, why not use some of the trees from my HO layout to represent young trees in the needles. I think they work well enough.  Larry G


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Larry G
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I have around a hundred of these trees from my old HO layout so will be able to plant a good size forest. I'll still need weeds and underbrush.   LG

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Last edited on Mon Oct 30th, 2017 02:01 am by Larry G

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Trees and bushes come in all sizes so there is no reason you can't use 'HO Scale' trees.

The Bristlecone Pine in the White Mountains of California is a very slow grower and can live for hundreds or even thousands of years.  With its' twisted and gnarled truck and branches they very interesting to see up close.

http://mavensphotoblog.com/2013/03/21/the-ancient-bristlecone-pine-forest-spending-time-with-the-oldest-living-things-on-earth/

If I can ever coax my little narrow gauge line into some mountains I just might model some Bristlecone.


Last edited on Mon Oct 30th, 2017 07:34 am by Michael M

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Michael, The Bristlecone web site is very interesting, never visited there. With four kids in tow, we usually ended up at Disneyland. Modeling those twisted trees would be a real challenge. I have seen pictures of some very twisted bushes, can't remember the name, that could be used for the trunks. The rocks in that area would also present a challenge.

I like a good challenge so I wouldn't let any of this stop me from modeling this area, go for it.

Larry G.

Last edited on Mon Oct 30th, 2017 07:04 pm by Larry G

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Hi Larry,
This just keeps getting better and better,
:moose::moose::moose::moose::moose:

I don't do this often, but they have been well earned,

Larry G
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Thank you John. I am fortunate to live in a area with loads of scenic inspiration. I had briefly considered setting my layout near the Badlands National Park area in the late 1950s.. Photo from the South Dakota tourism site.   Larry G

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Last edited on Tue Oct 31st, 2017 07:16 pm by Larry G

Larry G
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I have been working on a couple of projects. First, a small mine motor, with a cab, to keep the operator warm and dry. It still needs a roof and controls in the cab plus a door.

The other project will take a long time to finish. I am building the foamcore substructure for the Appetite Mine buildings. I'm going for a busy look with multiple roof angles and wall setbacks. Still more to figure out. such as, overhead "skyways" to bring ore to the two track loading tipple.

This pic shows a overview of what has been done so far.



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Last edited on Sun Nov 19th, 2017 07:10 am by Larry G

Larry G
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Same area, just a bit lower angle. The loading tipple has a ways to go before it will get finished. I hope to make it fully functional so it can load cars with ore.  LG

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Larry G
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The largest building is 16" tall by 10" wide. Windows, doors and corrugated siding will be added over time.  

My new mine motor can be seen in this pic.   LG

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Last edited on Wed Nov 22nd, 2017 08:36 pm by Larry G

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The loading tipple, so far, and the new battery box dinky.

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The track runs through a building so I could maximize the buildings size.  LG

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Closeup of my new, unfinished, battery box dinky.  LG


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Damn cool! I love those large structures, looks like some work for sure. The fellow with the can of suds and sunshades looks like me in an earlier life.
Carry on...

Woodie

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Larry,

Very nice battery box loco.  Clean lines and nice paint job. 

How about a little info on how you built it.

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A long shot showing the mine buildings in relation to other things on this side of the layout.  LG


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My battery box dinky started life as a earlier version of a Model Power 4 wheel diesel. I used a razor saw to cut the hood and cab away, keeping the running boards, end beams, smooth side frames (no detail) and knuckle couplers.  LG




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Last edited on Sun Nov 19th, 2017 09:11 pm by Larry G

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I have a similar build in progress.  I cut off the cab, but kept the hood.  I'll build a new open-air cab for a 1/35 scale engineer.  I'm cannibalizing the RC parts out of a 1/72 scale tank so everything should fit very nicely.

The four wheel unit I'm using was made by either Tyco or AHM.  The motor, which had a high starting voltage and sounded like a coffee grinder, is getting replaced with a geared micro-motor.

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A battery box and cab were fashioned from Evergreen sheet styrene and strips then glued to what was left of the original body shell. Note the diamond tread floor in the cab. This was made by gluing wedding vale down then painting it silver. Ventilation holes need to be drilled at each mark on the battery box.   LG



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Last edited on Sun Nov 19th, 2017 09:30 pm by Larry G

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I made the battery box removable. Even though this unit runs smooth, never know when I might need to get at the motor, etc.   LG

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Last edited on Sun Nov 19th, 2017 09:39 pm by Larry G

Larry G
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The undercarriage is original, straight out of the box.  LG

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Larry G
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Bought myself a label maker. I am posting labels at key locations around the layout. These labels should help visitors understand the layout.

LG

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Last edited on Wed Dec 6th, 2017 01:17 am by Larry G

Larry G
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This label gives info on scale, gauge and track height. Notice that I stated the track gauge as 18" not 15". I did this to ward off any comments about no 15" rail lines in the US. The only exception being amusement park trains. I have had to explain that my 15" track represents 18" gauge. Many industries in the US used 18" gauge, such as in mining operations.

Gn15 is only 3" too narrow to represent 18" gauge. On30 is 6" too narrow to represent 3' gauge and 6" too wide to represent 2' gauge. The same goes for HOn 30.
O scale, standard gauge, trains are running on 5' gauge track, not 4' 8 & 1/2" gauge.
G scale started out, in the US, running 3' prototypes on 42" gauge track. The scale of the trans has since been enlarged to be the correct size for the track.

Many of us have to make compromises to build in a certain scale/gauge that we favor.
LG

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Last edited on Wed Dec 6th, 2017 01:15 am by Larry G

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I'm with you Larry.  I declare my Geneseo Rwy to be 18" gauge as well.

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I have a need for trimmed hedges at the BigStone Mountain Lodge.

For material, this is what I came up with, a foam furnace filter. This thing is big enough to supply hedges for the rest of my life.
 LG



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I cut the foam to the needed size and pushed flat tooth picks into the bottom. These are to represent the trunks of the individual bushes.  LG

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Next, I spray painted the entire thing black. LG

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To finish up, I sprayed it with hair spray and covered it with ground foam. LG

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This is the finished hedge. Bushes and other types of ornamental plants can be made this way too.  LG

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I've picked up a few artificial flowers from Michael's and Hobby Lobby that have the appropriate look or buds for my desert scenery.  I can always spray the stuff a different color if I need to, and I hit everything with a shot of UV protection spray.

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I picked up 3 Thomas gondolas for $3 about 15 years ago. Finally, I found a use for them.

Using the under frame and wheels, I built two bulk head flats and a mini box car.  Love the spoked wheels. If these Thomas cars weren't so grossly over priced, I would buy many more.  LG


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Hi Larry :wave:



Nice looking car builds ! :thumb:



If you like the spoked wheelsets that 'Thomas' wagons have ...

... then you'd probably like these 'Hornby' R8098 wheelsets.



Same size as yours at 12.6mm Dia. & insulated metal.

A straight swop point-point size for Bachmann, Kadee etc. etc. HO wheelsets. :cool:





Kitbash & Michael M have both bought these in the U.S.

They come in packs of 10x axles at about $10 Bucks.



I use them on my 1:35n2 car builds ...

... along with vintage diecast 'Tri-ang'(TM) Brit. underframes, the same as yours.

Of course in the U.K. this kinda '50s funky junkque, is budget booty ! :)



:mex:



Si.

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Thanks, Si. I will look for a place to buy them here in the US.

Spoked wheels were used on industrial railways over here but no one seems to care about such things in the US. Very little has been saved from these little rail lines.

I managed to save 6 two foot gauge cars. Three from a creosoting plant and three from various brick making plants. I no longer own these cars but they do still exist. Yes, that's me about 30 years ago.

Larry Gant


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Larry G
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To simplify loading and unloading my vertical hoist, I am reconfiguring the thing. It will be  sort of a combination vertical and incline hoist. The incline angle will be extremely steep, close to vertical. Also, it will now be side loading with just one track. The hoist cage/car will be long enough to handle a future two truck passenger car.

This first picture shows what I am starting with.

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Larry G
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This shot shows the curved extension added to the older section. Spackling paste has been used to fill in any imperfections in the 1/2" pink foam. Once dry, this will be sanded then painted and weathered. New mountain side will fill in the open space under the new retaining wall.   LG

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Last edited on Mon Feb 5th, 2018 06:43 am by Larry G

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A lot of time, cardboard and hot glue has been lavished on the rebuild of the incline hoist. Also, a 5" foam extension has been added to the table base. This was added to increase the thickness of the mountain side. Now the tunnel, at the base, won't look so close to the edge. The tote containing my stash of hand cut cardboard strips can be seen on the right. Total height of the cliff is 31" from the base.
LG

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Last edited on Wed Jan 24th, 2018 08:28 pm by Larry G

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I finished the corrugated cardboard webbing and covered it with 1 1/2 rolls of Woodland Scenic plaster cloth. I'm going for a more rugged, weathered look on this build. This structure is only half of the needed new mountainside. On the far side of the new incline hoist, an even larger mountainside will be built. I like building large imposing scenery, so this will be a labor of love.  Larry G


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Very impressive!

You certainly provide some great depth, and height, for your railroad.


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You've nailed the shape and form of the the rock on your new mountainside.

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Looks like the joke is on me. I thought I was mining a fictitious mineral, not so. I just stumbled across a gemstone site that talks about Apatite. Different spelling than my Appetite Mine. Turns out, Apatite is a real, multicolored, translucent gemstone. I have no intention of changing the spelling of my Appetite Mine. I do intend to adopt (steal) the full geologic description of Apatite. Look it up your self, very interesting read. Larry Gant

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Not bad Larry. :thumb:

Comes up quite nice, once you've washed all the dirt & rust orf of it ! ;)



:)



Si.

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Now I have a direction to go with the look of my tipper car loads, multicolored stones covered with a bit of dirt and grime. Me thinks a trip to a local aquarium shop is in order. The multicolored stones used in the bottom of the fish tanks might be a good stand in for the Apatite. LG

Last edited on Fri Jan 26th, 2018 11:47 pm by Larry G

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Larry,

Apatite...very interesting.  Used mostly for fertilizer.  Can also be used as a gemstone.  Some times contains rare-earth elements and can be used as an ore.


I found some small bags of fake toy gems made of plastic at one of the dollar discount stores.  The 'fake gems' came in different colors.  Could probably take a hammer to the plastic and break it into smaller pieces.  There are also glass stones, like marbles, that could be broken up and used.  Usually get them for a buck or two a bag at some discount stores.  Wal-Mart sometimes has them.  I've got some stuck away in the garage...I'll send you a few if you want.



I just might borrow your idea and do a little apatite mining on my layout.

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Larry , Fellers...
The foam / filter , hedge trick is a good idear..I will keep it in mind  for future use..thanks..

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With further checking, I found that the Black Hills has some of the best Apatite crystals to be found anywhere. Haven't found anything about large deposits of gem stone or Apatite ore so far. Now that I know Apatite is real, I would like to have my layout reflect a actual Apatite mine.
So, I will keep checking on Apatite in the Black Hills.
Larry G

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Been doing a bit more work on the land forms near the incline hoist. More cardboard and hot glue. I like scenery above and below the track level when ever possible.  LG

Attachment: DSC00001 2.jpg (Downloaded 124 times)

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All but 6" of the upper level trackwork is finished. After the hoist is installed and working well, the last 6" of track will be finished. Track on the far side of the host can be finished then also. The gap in the roadbed is where the incline hoist will be installed.   LG

Attachment: DSC00003.jpg (Downloaded 124 times)

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A closer view of the eventual hoist site. I've been avoiding the challenge of building the hoist long enough, time to get off my big fat chair and have at it.  LG

Attachment: DSC00002.jpg (Downloaded 125 times)

Last edited on Mon Feb 12th, 2018 04:02 am by Larry G

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I've been doing a few small things around my layout but mostly working on a dozen new cars.
Bob R suggested cars from Wiseman Model Services, so I ordered two sets. They are cast white metal and have really nice side frames. They come with quality, blackened wheel sets. These cars were meant for HO or On30. By adding my own wood decking over the cast metal deck the cars are transformed into Gn15. I copied Bob Rs method of lingthening the cars. 
Besides the two disconnects, already finished, I intend building box cars, tank cars and bulkhead flats on top of some of the cars. Also, a couple rider cars (caboose) need to be built.   Larry G

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A closer view. 
 I need to add buffers to all the cars except the two disconnect cars. I cut 1/4" slices from a  1/2" hardwood dowel, then cut these in half to make the buffers.
 The bright silver chains are just something we had on hand. I'll find blackened chain for coupling the cars. All my cars will be converted to the link and pin style coupling system. Larry G

Attachment: DSC00002 2.jpg (Downloaded 94 times)

Last edited on Tue Mar 6th, 2018 05:24 am by Larry G

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Hi Larry,
You have been busy. :bow: Well done!! :2t:

Larry G
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Finish my version of Bob Rs bulkhead flat cars with a few minor changes. I now have a total of five of these types of cars. 
Larry G

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Bob R
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Looking good Larry.  The buffers are great and will ensure the cars can push well on tight radius turns.

Larry G
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Finished six Herb Deeks coal hopper kits. These cars will be used to deliver coal to the Appetite Mine's boiler room. 
Larry G

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W C Greene
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Nice little fellahs...I haven't heard about Herb Deeks in years, is he still making kits?

Woodie

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Woodie, I bought these Herb Deeks kits and two of his battery powered mine motors many years ago. I'm reasonably sure another company bought Herb out and still offers his kits. Can't remember the name of that company. 
Larry G

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I forgot to mention two other Herb Deeks cars on my roster. A flat car and tank car, both modified a quite a bit.   Larry G

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Last edited on Mon Apr 2nd, 2018 06:41 pm by Larry G

Michael M
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Larry,

Some of your equipment looks similar to Ozark Miniatures:  https://www.ozarkminiatures.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=475

http://www.ozarkminiatures.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=474

Last edited on Tue Mar 27th, 2018 08:42 pm by Michael M

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Ozark Miniatures, that is the name I could not remember, thanks Michael. As I said, I am reasonably sure this is Herb Deeks old line of railway kits. Herb also offered kits for hard to find road vehicles. Don't know if he is still doing these or if some one has picked up that line too.. Larry G

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Finally, guests going to Big Stone Lodge and miners going to work no longer need to walk along the track. Three new passenger cars are now ready for service. A baggage car, small passenger car and a two truck passenger car. The stricking paint job really stands out among all the earth tones of the needles.   Larry Gant

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Nice cars Larry and they make up into a sweet train. I wonder if a couple of chains on either side of the baggage car would help keep the load in, especially when travelling around bends!

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Doug, you are right, chains or netting need to be added. I have some black wedding vail material on hand, should make good netting. Now all I need is some 1:24 baggage and several seated figures to complete the train.

I was inspired by the 15" estate railways, over in your neck of the woods, for the design of my coaches. Larry G

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Installed netting on one side, will do the far side after I load the car with luggage. My fat fingers have a hard time of it, trying to load luggage later.  Larry G

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Very neat Larry - and much safer!

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" I wonder if a couple of chains on either side of the baggage car would help keep the load in,
especially when travelling around bends! "



Good point Doug. L:



I guess Larrys locos could create a couple of 'Gs' of sideways force ...

... when taking those tight mining curves at very HIGH SPEED ! :shocked:



Could make your face go all wobbley, like in those old NASA films. :w:



Nice netting Larry. :thumb:

I hope it's the ultra high-tensile stuff ! :cool:



;)



Si.

Larry G
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Passengers already?  looks like the new coaches are a hit.   Larry

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Build it, and they will come!  Excellent job.

Mack

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Have you ever built something that look good at first. Then, after living with it for a while, you became more and more unhappy with it. That is what I have been feeling for some time. The future loading tipple was bothering me. It looked too high and the long roof line wasn't interesting. So, I got busy and made new, much shorter support bents. I also raised part of the roof to give it a more interesting look.  
This first shot shows the high bents in place.   Larry G



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Larry G
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This shot shows the new, shorter bents in place.  I'm liking this new look much better.   Larry G

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Larry,

I like the lower bents also, as long as all your equipment clears underneath okay. 

There's no rule that says we can't go back and change things if we're unhappy with the results.


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The passenger train is my tallest equipment, clears by 3/4" of an inch. Some sort of swing down contraption will be needed to load ore cars. Need to get close so ore isn't spilling all over the ground. Larry G

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I made an ore chute out of styrene for my ore bin.  With a brass rid coming up out of the tip of the layout.  Hooked to a bell crank with a rid to the front of the layout.  Simple push-pull affair.

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Push rods, good idea, Michael. 
 All my buildings are removable, so I can work on them at my modeling desk and also reach hidden track. All push rods etc. will need to be inside a single structure. I'm thinking a roof vent could be used as the push pull handle, connected to the drop down chute with rods and bell cranks.
I remember seeing a way to regulate the flow of material in one of the model railroad mags years ago. A slowly rotating flat, stiff brush was used to meter out material from the holding bin. The holding bins would need to be filed, by hand, through a trap door in the roof.

I my minds eye, a marriage of push rods and a rotating brush should work. 
Larry G

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Proportions of the structures are very nice and the various angles and roof heights make a nice scene.  I like the bent height as built and the fact that your buildings are removable would enable changing the height if necessary in the future.  I say that because when I decided to change from gas mechanical critters to steam, I had several clearance issues to correct.  Plan for the potential of changes.

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Very good progress ... do uou use foam board for the basic shapes?

Cheers

Mack

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Most of my structures start with a inner core made of foam board. Then I overlay that with a variety of materials. Card stock from various food containers such as cereal boxes, strip wood and plastic sheet have been used. For these mine buildings, I am using different materials on each structure to give the scene a sense of history. So far I have scratch built the windows in one of the structures. Doing this was a lot of fussy work, but cheeper than buying commercial offerings. 
The structure, at far right, is being covered with a board and batten style siding. Others will have corrugated steel covering. One section will not have any walls at all. This is going to be a open air affair with just a roof and four support posts. I'll let the roof trusses be exposed to see the detail. This will cover the coal dump area, lower left. Larry G

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Last edited on Fri Apr 13th, 2018 05:38 pm by Larry G

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Thanks Larry. Your results are really good.

Mack

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Larry,

I posted a few photos of the linkage for my ore bin over at http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=7765&forum_id=17&jump_to=100753#p100753

It's crude but it works. 

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Started working on the coal dump roof recently. First, I made as accurate a drawing as I could so all the trusses would be the same. If you have some waxed paper, I did not, lay that over the drawing. This will allow you to glue the parts together on top of the drawing without them sticking to the drawing.   Larry G

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The finished trusses with gusset plates made of thin plastic. 
 I had planed to use small nut, bolt, washer castings to enhance the look of the trusses. Turns out, such castings are almost nonexistent these days. Detailing parts, in general, are becoming hard to find, according to Ray, at Who's Hobby, here in Rapid City.       Larry G

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Last edited on Wed Apr 25th, 2018 03:15 pm by Larry G

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" Detailing parts, in general, are becoming hard to find,
according to Ray, at Who's Hobby, here in Rapid City "


Hi Larry :wave:


Nice job on the roof woodwork ! :thumb:


In 1:24 scale, you can use slices of    hexagon or square extrusion.

It comes in loads of different sizes & is of course dead easy to MEK on to the gusset-plates.

I've used the old 'Russ Simpson' ones in 1/2" before, betcha can't get dem nowheres these days though !

The other handy supplier of some useful NBWs is the 'Tichy Train Group'.





A 5 1/2" washer, with a 3" nut.

About a good size to use for many 1:24 stuff.

They do other sizes as well, I just got some for my 1:35n2 builds.

No flash & very clean easy to use parts with shafts for drill holes, good stuff !



:moose:



Si.


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Thanks Si, I'll give these two companies a call. NBW castings really do enhance the look of a model. Larry G

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Larry,  Depending upon your patience and available time - you can make them in our scale.  I punch out small circles from card stock with a leather punch, cut out small squares and glue the square on top of the circle.  Then attach a piece of plastic rod with a drop of thin CA and cut it off.  Picture shows result.

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For rivets on gussett plates I just apply small circles punched out with the leather punch.  I use an old star wheel type punch that has about 8 or 10 different size holes.

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That looks pretty good to me ... I am going to give that a try.

Mack

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Since I will need 134 small NBW castings for this one structure alone, scratch building them would be too time consuming. The rivet idea seems more doable. First, I will need to find a suitable leather punch.

For future projects, I'll try ordering NBW castings.

Larry G

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Moving forward, found this corrugated ribbon in a fabric shop, many years ago. Very thin with a silver finish. I used it to cover one of my mine buildings. I think it works well to represent corrugated metal siding.   Larry G

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The mine building, with corrugated ribbon siding installed. Painted it with a flat finish, then a wash of diluted black ink. The windows were scratch built.  Larry G

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The other side. A connecting "sky way" will be installed between the buildings.  Also, a door with a stairway needs to be built.   Larry G


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Last edited on Wed May 2nd, 2018 02:15 pm by Larry G

W C Greene
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Damn nice Larry! Fine work indeed.
Woodie

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Looking great Larry.  Really has the character of old mining structures.

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Finally finished the RIP track and shed at the hoist area.Larry G

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A bit of detail has been added to the interior of the shed. More detail will be added over time. Larry G

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Hi Larry  :wave:


The latest pix. are lookin' GREAT !  :thumb:








The new, lower supports, are nice for the buildings appearance.  :cool:

Love those ^^ lil' ore-cars !  :bg:








C :cool: :cool: L  scene with the concrete/rock walls, tight curves & shed. 



Did you manage to find any suitable mail-order N.B.W.s ?  ???



:moose: :moose: :moose: :moose: :moose:



Si.


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Si, I haven't ordered any NBW castings yet. So far only O scale and HO castings found. I may order some O scale ones and call it good enough.
Larry G

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Finished applying corrugated siding to the larger building. Also built stairs and a door for the smaller building. Still need to build a roof over the coal unloading track.Larry G

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Looking good, Larry.  Really has the character of the area.  It has the appearance of a much larger structure than it actually is.  I think the various sections and the different angles contributes.  Good example of selective compression.

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Same scene, little different angle.  I think, having a couple shadowy areas, that go deep into the building complex, gives it a sence of mystery.    Larry G

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Wide view of the mine area.   Larry G

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One of the shady areas. Note the boss peeking around the corner, checking things out. LG

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This shot shows more of the various roof angles.  LG

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This shows the simple track arrangement, just three turnouts. Counting the two ore load out tracks, the coal dumping spot, a stop inside the building and one where the boss is standing (previous picture) there are 6 places to spot a train. LG

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Last edited on Tue Jun 19th, 2018 02:41 pm by Larry G


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