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Camdale HO/00 scale modular garden railway
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 Posted: Mon Jan 30th, 2017 04:49 am
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Tony M
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Hi Bob C: I am going to take your advice and put those rotary switches to the spare parts bin, I have heaps of DPDT switches, I know how to wire DC duel cab control but how do you wire more DPDT switches to ad more throttles, I want two more for Local running in the station, siding and loco service facility and later staging yard and also LED indicators to high light each throttle in use.
The outside pins of the DPDT is for the cabs and centre pins is for the track, whew does the next DPDT get wired in.
I will draw up the layout showing the bocks tonight , 1be 16 in stage one.
Tony.

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 Posted: Tue Jan 31st, 2017 09:00 am
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Tony M
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H all, my control project is at a stand sill, had problems with wiring the rotary switch, the bare wires on the LED's touched, I think I shorted out a resistor and  upset the trannie as well, will check the trannie tonight and unscrew the LED's, made up a temporary rotary switch with the four LEDS, not a good idea, to play safe will have to build the control and mount the rotary switches permanently where the bare LED wires wont  bump the other wire. 
I will have to have a dual cab DC set up using DPDT switches I find out how to wire the rotary switch in the spare parts draw for the time being.
When I buy a loco like to find the real loco, I now have two Indian Pacific NR class locos the first IP NR loco I bought is NR28 named Port Augusta and found anew pic at  taken at a different angle second NR is IP NR18 she had a new yellow colour scheme with a new IP loo very stunning indeed. Have the coaches as well 18 of them , over 15 feet long, modelled on IP that runs off peak time, peak time GSR run 28 passenger cars and when arriving at Sydney Central has to be split up on two platforms I can't wait to do that, not to next year.
Here is a pic of my newest NR IP loco NR 18 is on my desk top pic as well pure awesome.

Tony from down under

Attachment: NR18_+_IP_Stratton,_2014 a.jpg (Downloaded 30 times)

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 Posted: Tue Jan 31st, 2017 09:07 am
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Tony M
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Here is my other IP NR28 sadly I can't double head with NR18 different gearing, NR28 is a slower loco , I double head NR28 with another Pacific National NR62 and NR18 I double head NR84 which had has a Southern Spirit colour scheme has the same gearing as NR18.

Tony from down under

Attachment: 30992242 a.jpg (Downloaded 30 times)

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 Posted: Tue Jan 31st, 2017 10:09 pm
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Robert Comerford
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Tony, the way I have wired most of the last layouts I have done is to  have one DPDT switch for two throttles. These are normally used for the main lines or one can be used to operate over the whole layout if you are on your own. These two throttles are portable on a big layout.  The switches are installed such that they are thrown up and down not sideways. This is called 'keys up/keys down' operation and the throttles associated are the keys up or down throttles. At each yard where shunting is going to be done a local throttle can be installed. This throttle is fixed, usually on a long cord so the operator can throw the points, uncouple etc while still having the controller in hand. On a tiny yard where everything can be reached while sitting it could be just a panel mounted controller. The yard/station areas are usually arranged so that all shunting can be done independently of the main lines. At each of these locations there is another DPDT switch. It is labelled 'local/ remote". By throwing it to local, the keys up/down switch is disconnected from the yard feed and the local throttle is connected. This wiring method allows for two players to be running trains on the main lines and another player to be shunting at each yard. By using DPDTCO (centre off) switches those switches can be used as section isolating switches when required. I also only use one set of contacts of the DPDTCO switches as I wire layouts up for common return. The other contacts can be used for something else later if required. Each controller must have a separate transformer powering it for common return wiring. In conjunction with this method we often did away with lots of remote point switching. The points at each yard/station were operated by hand.... cheaper/more reliable/ and much more intuitive. On some layouts the points on the main line(s) were operated remotely at a panel for convenience. Here is a pic showing the basic idea.  To use DCC instead of dc on a layout I usually connect the DCC controller to either the keys up or down feed.  This is just another DPDT switch in (say) the feed coming directly out of the keys up controller before it gets to any other switch. It is labelled 'keys up/ DCC'.   Then throw all keys up and you have a DCC layout . The DCC power is only turned on after disconnecting all the dc controllers from power. cheers  BobC

Attachment: P1000850.JPG (Downloaded 25 times)

Last edited on Tue Jan 31st, 2017 10:12 pm by Robert Comerford

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 Posted: Tue Jan 31st, 2017 11:30 pm
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Robert Comerford
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Here is a pic showing the installation option of DCC power on the layout.

I have not mentioned layouts such as ones with a branch line as well as the double track main line and those with more than two main lines.
 
The branch line was wired up in the manner of a yard/station with its own local controller.

I have not wired up a layout with more than two main lines using this method. If I ever have to I will give it some thought. Once you get past a certain complexity DCC is the sensible option. I have no wish to indulge in progressive cab control again. :>;)

A big advantage of this method over the banks of rotary switches is the ease of fault finding for the less technically inclined.
There was also a lot less of the "who's got my train?" as someone switched a rotary section switch to controller 5 instead of 6 etc. :>;)

Look forward to seeing your block diagram.
cheers
BobC

Attachment: P1000851.JPG (Downloaded 25 times)

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 Posted: Wed Feb 1st, 2017 04:00 am
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Tony M
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Hi Bob, many thanks for the drawing of the DPDT switches, so if I want another local throttle just continue on with a third DPDT, now the question what about add LED indicators where do they get wire in, like to high light each block that s in use.
Have t agree with what you say about tracing wire problems, they say keep I simple  and rotary switches be a pain as I have found out, stuffed up my old CDA trannie going to ask my brother-in-law to make me up another trannie may be 3amp this time, he is a electrical fitter for QR, he made up a 6amp trannie for me.
Will need 45 DPDT switches for the main bus wire panel, must ask you what is a DPDTCO switch never heard of them, could it have 8 pins.
I have taken a pic of my track plan post it on your next post.
Tony.

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 Posted: Wed Feb 1st, 2017 04:52 am
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Tony M
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Hi Bob, thanks again have to study the wiring drawing, wont need that for a while, talk about DCC I am looking into Hornby DCC as they a computer interface in one of their models probably have to pay a bit more but a bloke choose Hornby to Lenz was raving.
If I spend a bit more my son will be able to drive a train from his computer all goes well, now to con my wife:P.
Here is a pic of my track plan, the first main panel will have 15 blocks can add on as I build more modules, haven't even added in the loco service facility will have a turn table to turn 3801 around mine doesn't have a front coupler Lima brand nice detail is ok the loco facility will have it's own power supply or local DPDT switch what do you think.

We are copping hot weather here in the high 30's can't do much out side, the next week much the same, layout at a stand still, will have to work on the station building plans but can paint the modules in the morning and late afternoon.
I won't be actually having much siding at all only one, have to have a reverse loop to turn the IP around, not much scenery other that the station building and double deck bridge corner modules.

Hope you can work out the where the blocks are all up for the whole mainline and station complex when finished 30 blocks, a lot of DPDT switches., enjoy .
Cheerss from Tony

Attachment: IMG_1145 a.jpg (Downloaded 21 times)

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 Posted: Wed Feb 1st, 2017 06:22 am
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Robert Comerford
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The CO refers to centre off as outlined. The Jaycar part number ST0576 I gave are DPDTCO switches.
 If you toggle the switch and it has 3 positions (left, middle and right) then it is centre off.

Forget the LEDs for the moment.

I have draw what I think is a block diagram of your layout plan as it stands.
A station area and a single track mainline loop with a reversing loop inserted into it.

Do I have that bit right so far?

regards
 BobC

Attachment: P1000852.JPG (Downloaded 20 times)

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 Posted: Wed Feb 1st, 2017 09:04 am
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Tony M
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Hi Bob, I will go to Jar-Car and have a look at them, I have so many DPDT switches got a draw full, a few years back I came across a bargain on EBay but have to watch the heat when soldering the plastic will melt, should of paid a bit more for my soldering iron got a Weller that can control the heat, you can adjust them in the soldering stick, I use a wet sponge to cool the tip down with a wet sponge cleans the tip at the same time.
You are spot on with the reverse loop, I am hopping to do away with another DPDT switch which changes the polarity, the loop is over 35feet in length can stretch it longer , become another block just need the up and down DPDT, that's the plan.
I managed to do a bit of work on the station module today replaces the two inch screws with two one inch countersunk bolts, used those T bolts worked out well ready to paint three modules starting tomorrow morning before it gets too hot.
Will have to get stuck into the new control panel petty soon will need it when I complete from the right back corner module darting around to the spiral up to the station modules onto the car port end to left back corner module be an exciting day when the first test train runs.
I be able to add on the LED block on the panel indicators later then.
How are you going with your station building repair.
Be taking a couple of pics of my two Austrains NR28 and NR18 tomorrow, got 7of those locos.

Cheers Tony.




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 Posted: Wed Feb 1st, 2017 09:32 pm
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Robert Comerford
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Those cheap switches can easily be damaged, one of the reasons I recommend the big ones. I suggest they be used as isolating switches rather than throw them initially if they still work. Easy to replace when they play up and easy to fault find when they are only responsible for turning the power on/off on a short length of track.

If you insist on a reverse loop then it will need to be fed with some means of reversing the polarity. It can be automated but again I suggest a DPDT switch to start.

What you currently have is a plan that may be used for running two trains depending on the station arrangement. One running on the main and one shunting in the yard.

My station is on hold until get the corrugate.

cheers
BobC

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