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Helmut F
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Well I went away for a while to do a lot of reading and research and wait on my stuff to get here.  So I now own a Bachman Big Hauler 10 wheeler (Christmas set), an LGB Porter, A Lionel O *Scale* Mother Hubbard (i.e. Camelback), an O gauge semi-scale Atlas Atlantic, and an S scale AF Atlantic.

I took a couple of pics of the out in the yard to see what size looks best out there.

G scale through S scale 1

G scale through S scale 2

I made them links as they are pretty good size and did not want to mess up the page.

So my wife and I agree, anything from the Camelback and up are good for out in the yard.  One exception is the On30 might look good in an isolated, dedicated area; but then I may as well do that indoors and not have to mess with the extra stuff of non-weather proof equipment.

I am very impressed with the Lionel O Scale Camelback (maybe it is because I just really like the look of the Camelbacks) and the Bachmann On30.  Those locos just look really good.  This is especially true of the Bachmann given the pricing of these.

My pic has a LGB Stainz because a friend let me borrow it for a bit.  My Porter came in the day after I took the pics.

Porter and Stainz 1

Porter and Stainz 2

I am not quite sure the Stainz is 1:22.5 looking at it next to the Big Hauler.  Looks a bit large to me, especially when the Porter is pictured next to it.  Anybody know?

The one thing missing that I would like to see in person is a Piko, USA Trains, Aristocraft, or Marklin.  Overall Marklin is far too pricey for me, but their tinplate-like Maxi line is appealing.  My wife likes the semi-toy look, and that factors in overall.  ;)

So my friend also has a Maxi he is going to loan me so I can add that to the mix and really see how much of a difference there is in 1:32 vs. 1:22.5.

I really do like the Piko and LGB stuff, but I am finding far more used/less expensive LGB.  I am also finding real 1:48 stuff costing more than the 1:29 and 1:22.5 stuff.

Is their quality on par with each other?

With my daughter in the picture (literally and figuratively!), is the LGB stuff more durable/reliable?  I think it is, but not sure.

It seems I may well have come full circle and really am hearing some of the advice that some others have given me and at this point I am leaning more towards 1 gauge and either Piko or LGB.  For my first foray into model railroading the more robust 1 Gauge/G scale stuff may well be better to help prevent disappointment and frustrations.  I am not necessarily giving up on other scales: I would love to do an O scale layout and mix both standard and narrow gauge with a plausible story behind it.  Any thoughts would be welcome, but yes I do realize it is my decision.

The one thing that is killing me is track price!  Even used it is expensive unless I plan to take several months/years to find the good deals to have enough.  Even O gauge is pricey, although that can be found for somewhat less than 1 gauge.

Last edited on Fri Sep 16th, 2016 11:12 pm by Helmut F

Helmut
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@Namensvetter
The Stainz is somewhere 1:16~1:18, the original being 30" (really!) gauge.
( SKGLB/Zillertalbahn/Mondseebahn : 760mm ) Who cares for 2mm, which is within common tolerances anyway?
One word about quality: PIKO stuff is a far cry from original LGB sold by L. of America. The contemporary Märklin stuff is seeming to be downgraded to meet PIKO's.

Last edited on Fri Sep 16th, 2016 02:27 pm by Helmut

Helmut F
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Helmut #1,
Can you tell me about "PIKO stuff is a far cry from original LGB sold by L. of America"? Does that mean Piko is better or not so good?

What about newer LGB? or did you mean real LGB (are there counterfeits?)?

Vielen Dank!

Helmut
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Just read this thread:
The original LGB quality ( 1968 till ~2005 ) was excellent. LGB went bust in 2007 and was taken over by Märklin. After that product quality became a topic in LGB-related fora.
PIKO sells much cheaper at the expense of guess what?
Still, if handled cautiously, it can give satisfaction - but do not expect the motors and gears to take the same loads as LGB locos did.


Last edited on Sat Sep 17th, 2016 12:48 am by Helmut

Helmut F
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Helmut #1,
Thx. for the feedback. Would you say current quality of LGB and Piko is somewhat equivalent then (current production)?

Helmut
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Yes, from what I extracted from the threads, it is converging (PIKO is going up a bit.. ) but personally, I would no longer dare to leave a current-production LGB loco out in the rain for hours ( as one can do with the 'original' LGB  )

Helmut F
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Gleichfals. Es ist lange her als ich Deutsch geleist hat (hopefully that is correct!).

From a durability vs. children viewpoint would you have an opinion that one would be better than the other?

Are LGB models of US equipment really 1:29?  I understood they all LGB is about 1:22.5?

I am hoping that I can keep everything about the same scale without necessarily needing to stick with one line of products from one manufacture (but being careful about it - I started a thread in large scale but have gotten no feedback yet).

That thread was from 2009 - I wonder if things are different now?  It is difficult to determine these things without spending (and potentially wasting) money.

Thx.

Last edited on Sat Sep 17th, 2016 09:44 am by Helmut F

Helmut
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In both ranges you find models well suited for handling by children.
It is not without reason that most of the equipment offfered for that gauge (45mm ) is called 'G' scale. G denotes the first letter of the German word for rubber, i.e. Gummi. In other words, don't expect all LGB equipment made to a specific scale throughout, PIKO, being SG shrinks, follws the same philosophy. It has to look 'right' in the eyes of the average buyer, who is not aware of one prototype being 30" NG, and the other one being SG - when brought together, they must harmonize to a certain degree.
LGB's SV mallet is 1:24, PIKO's 221 is 1:29, and the remainder is in-between.
Bachmann, on the other hand, has rather faithfully clung to 1:20, or 'F' scale. This is correct if you model American 3' equipment. I'm not mentioning the shrink of an SG loco they offered, too.

Helmut F
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ugh, well I guess I will just not try to pay much attention to that as along as things look good enough. I know it goes against the grain of most model railroaders, but I am not that concerned with a narrow gauge looking like it 'must' nor all proportions being exact (i.e. no rivet counter here).

I am more interested in the operational aspect and modeling that, as long as I can do so and enjoy it and it not be cumbersome. I guess I could even do that with Lego trains or Playmobil. :)

That said, I do want things to generally look and sound good to add to the enjoyment and I definitely want to focus on steam.

Do Piko and LGB look good next to each other, or (I bet this is the answer!) does it depend upon the particular models?

Last edited on Sat Sep 17th, 2016 09:02 pm by Helmut F

W C Greene
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I have been and am an advocate of "doing your own thing". If something I do goes against "the grain", then it could be that I am doing it right!
I'm sorry that I can't advise you on Piko VS LGB. I had LGB for years and ran it outside in the rose bushes. The only problem I ever had was cleaning track and wheels. If I had thought about it back then (early 70's) I would have installed radio control & batteries in my locos. Heck, I might have stayed with large scale...if I only knew.
Good luck with your decision, I do know that older LGB beat anything for durability and kid friendly.

Woodie

Helmut F
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Woodie,
You and I may be kindred spirit there, plus I am stubborn. :D

Do you find an advantage in your stuff (1:35, yes?) vs. the larger 1:22.5 or even 1:29?

That is one reason I am considering Piko vs. LGB, generally 1:29 vs. generally 1:22.5.

But there is so much conflicting information, I feel the need to see them for myself, but that gets pricey. I am most of the way there though.

Maybe folks have experience with Bachmann 1:20.3 and LGB?  Can anyone give an observation about how these two look together?  Bachmann F scale stuff is almost as varied and cool as the On30 stuff.

Same with 1:24, does it look OK with LGB?

Then the extreme, 1:20.3 and 1:24?

As I have stated, and am not THAT concerned with exacting appearance; but I do not want stuff that is just way out of whack with each other and reality.  I would like the pieces to be reasonably representative of prototype and able to conduct operations with a mix of realism and enjoyment.

Last edited on Sun Sep 18th, 2016 02:33 am by Helmut F

Helmut F
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I just found this:

Bachmann:
  • "Spectrum" locos and some industrial rolling stock is 1:20.3.
  • "Big Haulers" series is 1:22.5, as is most their other rolling stock, though it may be inaccurately modeled from the prototype.
LGB:
  • (Older) Narrow gauge - 1:22.5
  • (Older) Standard gauge - Unknown, estimated at 1:26
  • Newer items in 1:29
Piko
  • Ranges from 1:27 - 1:29


  are these correct statements? found it in the dccwiki, last edited Sep 2014.

http://www.dccwiki.com/G_scale

actually I have a Big Hauler 10 wheeler, and even if it is not true to prototype I can measure the dimensions!  same with the LGB porter if I can find its prototype (if it exists).

Last edited on Sun Sep 18th, 2016 02:42 am by Helmut F

W C Greene
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Howdy Helmut, to answer one question, I model in 1:35 (military modeling scale) because HO/On30 track gauge becomes pretty much 24" gauge in that scale. I have been in model trains since 1960 or so and have built almost every scale. I love the little 2 foot gauge railroads and going this route is a natural, for me. It's not for everyone however, you must build almost everything from scratch.
Since you are not concerned as much with "scale-ness" but rather operation, you shouldn't worry about 1:24/ 1:22.5/ "LGB" scale/ 1:29...etc. However, when compared to 1:20.3 scale, these others are noticably smaller. Actually, the 45MM gauge (LGB, 1.22.5, 1:20.3) is a narrow gauge, the 45MM gauge is standard gauge in 1:32/1:29 scale! Whew, I'm confused enough as it is anyway.

Have fun and run a train today!
Woodie

Helmut F
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yep - got all that. my concern is how do those different scales look next to each other, and how reliable are the manufacturers at sticking with the scales - as Helmut #1 pointed out G can be interpreted as Gummi (yes, think Gummi bears!). i have tried searching for some images but there are not a lot forthcoming.

believe it or not I am about to set up the Bachmann loop I have for my daughter and to play with the Stainz and Porter for a bit.

gonna make me a double shot latte first though!

:D

Si.
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Playmobil will take a good few train-wrecks before it's time for the scrap-yard.

:moose:

The only thing I don't like about Playmobil is...
...if the dog BITES IT the Vets. dentistry bill is very expensive !!

Here's a pretty AWESOME TOPIC wild west trains & ALL !!
http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=10996.0

:moose:

.

Attachment: PlaymobilTrains.jpg (Downloaded 29 times)

Helmut
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Well, you can beef that up a little bit:

Goes nice with LGB's coaches...

of course there's a fully detailed cab with all the armatures present..

Helmut F
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very cool actually. i wonder if any 'real' model railroaders would come over to an operating session if I did everything in Playmobil!?!

:bg:

Is Playmobil UV resistant?

Last edited on Mon Sep 19th, 2016 08:00 am by Helmut F

Si.
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Playmobil is NUCLEAR ATTACK resistant !!

Don't worry about phony overscale 'real' operators...
...the little 3" plastic folk can run their own railroad !!

:moose:

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Only that Playmobil now have switched to BPRC on plastic wheels in the meantime.
That loco featured was track-powered, as was a very well-looking diesel switcher, and has become a collector's item. Track was LGB's.
They abandoned cooperation with LGB, and offered BPRC ( 27MHz, 4 different channels, 4,8V NiMH ) running on their own plastic track. There were two different steamers, , a railbus, and of course all the cars. The battery cases were plugable, so one could have a set of spares ready to exchange them for full ones. I still have a loco and some cars, they run very well. The different channels were selected by a pair of colour-coded quartz plugs, one for the Rx and Tx respectively. Runnig them together did not show any problems. Then the locos were withdrawn, and  a red DB-Cargo 'juice-jack' plus an IC-like train were offered. The track system changed also to imitating roadbed. The control was still on 27 MHz.
Now they have a 2.4 GHz freight set w/ sound with a very poor ( at least in my eyes ) control offering only 4 speed steps and that sound is not well synchronized. The kids will love it anyway. Of course there's a battery compartment with a lid screwed on, no way for NiMHs any longer.
One final word: The former products could be easily taken apart and modified - the new loco with its lousy receiver is "tamper-resistant". You can take it apart only once:f:

Last edited on Mon Sep 19th, 2016 01:59 pm by Helmut

Helmut F
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Oh well, that figures. Progress and product improvement, eh?

BTW - did not mean to offend anyone with my comment above that is into true scale modeling, details, etc. But I can imagine how some would take offense to model railroading with Playmobil.

I think I will take a cue from Herb (although that post might have gotten lost in the crash) and just put some On30 into play and run some trains and see how I get on. I am considering:

-limiting the layout area so the On30 stuff does not look too small
-just use Atlas HO track with is a huge discount over any 1 gauge track but still able to be used outdoors
-elevate all track off the ground on a pvc raised bed
-I can do this for a fraction of the cost of any G scale layout

I know I might have some frustrations due to the track, but I would rather get to doing something anyway (I have been quite busy finishing my garage - workspace and storage - but that is almost done and I will have time for doing instead of only reading). If all else fails, I will have enough On30 stuff for an indoor layout. Plus there are a lot of inexpensive but cool Bachmann On30 locos.

Helmut F
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Or I might look at Gn15! I think I could do a quaint little regional railroad with the Gn15 stuff available. I need a little more research there regarding ability to do BPRC in those small locos. The ability to be out in the weather or not does not matter when comaparing to On30 (if not, same as On30).

Helmut
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If your German reading ability is not too rusty, a lot of info about Gn15 BPRC can be found here.  And about Gn15 in general, this of course.

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Nochmal, vielen Dank.

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1:24 scale family & bonzo the dog !

:moose:

.

Attachment: Playmobil Family.jpg (Downloaded 19 times)

Helmut F
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Yeah - it would be somewhat neat but the apparent 'progress' of Playmobil is kind of a letdown.

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I found a couple of those Playmobil sets on eBay, the track powered locos. they are somewhat expensive although I am tempted.

But for my initial layout I am going to do On30. Track and equipment is far less expensive than anything else (that I want to use), and there is a lot of cool On30 stuff.

Looking at which rc system to use, planning to use S-CAB for battery board as I think they are the only one with an auto-switch capability between track and battery.

Thx to all for the advice and opinions.

W C Greene
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Howdy Helmut, all I can advise is that you might want to go totally "wireless", I have been in this hobby for over 50 years and 15 years back I threw away power packs and track cleaners. This one thing (radio control & onboard batteries) totally changed my hobby. Wireless is the way to go.

Woodie

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Yessir - that is absolutely what I plan to do, with the possible exception of track sections for charging if I am able to use the S-CAB bps board with the eventual solution I select.

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The problem with 'track sections' for charging, as I see it is...
...you would need to maintain all the pickup-springs, wheel-contacts & tires etc. in a squeeky-clean operational manner, with no loss of conductivity, or short-circuits.
Just as you would having full track-power.

Having the 'juice' going straight to the motor; without this complex chain of springs, contacts & wires, just waiting to get clogged up with gunk & go wrong...
...means you should be able to plough through much more 'crud' on an outdoor track, without so much as a blink.

If I were choosing an R.C. system. I don't think I'd want to limit my choices so much, by only having the option of those that offer that feature.
Anyhow, I would imagine that the charging could be done from the rails with any system, if the wiring was adapted to allow it.

The 'auto-switch' feature, between battery & track-power seems to me not particularly essential either.
A small manual-switch added during R.C. conversion could perform this task just as easily.

:moose:

.

Helmut F
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Si,
Understood, but I am also considering the relative fragility of the On30 models and trying to reduce handling.

I do intend to start somewhat small and see how it goes; that way i can amend the plan without a large loss of effort/cash.

I do know some amount of experimentation will be required, I am OK with that.

I do not think I am overly limiting the RC system by choosing to use the S-CAB battery/power board. I see it as adding a flexible option in a system. I can also NOT hook up anything to track power and just use a charging jack later as well, and if it does not work out I can adsorb the cost of one or two of those boards.

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I was looking for some switches and ran across something that gave me a thought - is there a discernible size difference between HO and OO scale models?

Are OO scale models, being standard gauge (or are they?), physically larger than On30 models?

Are OO scale models smaller than Traditional/semi O scale or even S scale (i.e. AF)?

I looked at some of the steam locomotives and actually like how funky they look, well compared to what I am used to seeing in steam locomotives since I am in and grew up in the US.

I am not too far down the On30 path to switch, or maybe this is just a distraction.  :bang:

Did the steam locomotives used in Australia come from the UK, or were they mostly of that type of appearance?  I ask this question as it seems most of the available OO stuff is of course from the UK.

I found a rather inexpensive Hornby R150 LNER NE 4-6-0 that I am considering purchasing to see how it compares in size to the On30, traditional O, S and O scale stuff I have (and need to start selling off!).

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Helmut, while British modellers model in 4mm scale for 16.5mm track,the prototype loading gauge is much smaller than US. Perhaps they paid the price for inventing railways and then having to put them in a land that was all owned by someone, not being able to just take it.

So British OO models are not much different in size to North American HO.

Australia has many different origins of locos. Early on we imported many items from the UK and America before making them ourselves. Many made overseas were to Australian designs too. Often the UK manufacturers made far larger locos for us than would be seen in the UK although our loading gauges were not as large as the US ones.
The South Australian broad gauge was basically US in design but made here or in the UK.
Diesel era saw mainly local manufacturers using US or British traction equipment in locally built bodies.
For 16.5mm track, Australians normally model in HO for Stephenson Standard and Irish Broad gauges.

cheers
BobC

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Bob,
Thx. What is most common there in Australia? OO or HO? or something else? I.e. did Australian modelers 'follow' the UK modelers in OO?

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All commercial RTR models are in HO.

NSW,VR, CR (standard gauge) and current private operators are more than well supplied, SAR has a few options.
QR is starting to be supplied for HOn42.

WAGR is principally kits in Sn42.
TGR has one very small supplier of kits in OO.
CR narrow gauge next to nothing.

O gauge is mainly expensive kits. 1/4" scale for VR,QR and 7mm for NSWGR.

Our infamous breaks of gauge are reflected in the modelling sphere too.
cheers
BobC

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The Brits. love their beloved OO !



" Gawd bless the good ship OO and all who sail in her ! "

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Howdy Helmut, just one question...what do you want? Everybody has their own agenda in scale, gauge, prototype, etc. From what I understand, you want something that can withstand being outdoors but still be large enough to appreciate and operate without much trouble. My suggestion is to seriously consider LGB and the other quality large scale models which are available. You will hear that HO, etc. is just fine outside and should you decide on smaller scales then you will need to find your own way, some things work and others don't. I built an outdoor railroad using an unusual scale operating on 16.5MM gauge (HO/On30) and had my share of difficulties but fun along the way. Would I build outside again? Probably not since I am an old guy now and like being indoors with my hobby.
What I am actually getting to is that sitting and getting opinions and thinking will never get the job done. You have to do something, even if it is wrong. I have known many guys who plan, research, collect, and never actually build anything. Then, one day, they are gone and never got to experience the heartaches and thrills of this hobby.
Yes, I am an opinionated old radical but over the last 50-60 years I have built in almost every scale/gauge and have never looked back.
So, have fun and decide on what you want to do now, tomorrow may not happen.

Woodie

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Bob,
Wow, that is pretty fractured. I would have decided on O but I also find O (real) scale quite pricey. Some do not, but it seems they can/will pay $500-$1000 for a loco. I just cannot bring myself to that. Even $200 is getting pricey for me. My wife says the $47 shipped price I paid for an On30 Porter is expensive!

Woody,
Yeah I was almost there with LGB/Piko until I priced 1 gauge track. I am not sure how anybody can afford it. I have not found any deals on second hand either. O gauge track is almost as expensive, but the real scale models are higher priced than many/most LGB/Pico.

EDIT: and once I saw the size of the On30 Porter I had to reconsider (it is tiny!), but cash is king.

But yes, analysis paralysis! That is why I have purchased some (quite a bit actually) Atlas HO code 100 track and 3 On30 locos. Getting started with something, and if it does not work out not that much cash has gone into it and I can sell it off easy enough and not really lost much if anything.

So I am starting something, just not sure I will not lay out some track and play with it for a bit and change it out anyway. I would really like to do O (real) scale but it is pricey.

Last edited on Wed Oct 5th, 2016 11:24 pm by Helmut F

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Si. wrote: The Brits. love their beloved OO !
" Gawd bless the good ship OO and all who sail in her ! "

Now should I put the dust off my Airfix GWR equipment and finally build J.Ahern's GWR country terminus on a 6' x 2' plank? It's all or nothing, down with BR!

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Well ,if cost is the prime factor then only code 100 HO track and all who run on her are now part of your deal.

From experience, while you can run such small equipment outdoors you will need to have a well laid baseboard that remains stable and be prepared to spend some time cleaning track,etc if you do not go battery/radio.

If I was to go to 16.5mm track again outdoors I would run battery/radio in diesel lashups. I would also have my storage in the garage as has always been the case.

Using 16.5mm track does give you many options in scale from the RTR market.

However as Woodie said, it is time to move on... make a choice and go try it. Life is too short to spend time thinking.

cheers
BobC

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Bob, from the start I have determined I will be doing BPRC. done. :)

Also, my stuff is all going to be steam - at least for now. I WILL have to put some tenders behind my Porters, but I am OK with that as they are going to be my main motive power for the day to day grind. They need to have the staying power.

Like I said - I have 3 On30 locos already and a bunch of Atlas code 100 HO track. I am working with Neil of S-CAB on my BPRC stuff. I am working daily in the back yard to get the fish pond/water feature in, then it will be all railroad stuff.

:)

I might change later on due to my experiences, but am moving forward for now.

But how do Large Scalers afford that track?

W C Greene
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You are thinking about a narrow gauge Porter with a tender? Here you go, the real thing.


And here's my little Porter with r/c and battery inside the cab. It has been "upsceled" to 1:35 but the cab is just a mite larger than the O scale cab was. The board is under the cab roof and the 2 cell 7.4 volt Li Poly battery is in the cab on the "fireman's" side. This little lokie had a tender like the first photo for a number of years.

Woodie

Si.
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:pimp::pimp::pimp::pimp::pimp:
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:pimp::pimp::pimp::pimp::pimp:

:moose:

Helmut F
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Thx Woodie, that pic of real thing is exactly what i am looking for; a good reference to select a tender, or try building one. The backwoods guys have a lot of nice kits, but they are not cheap AND they have to be shipped here.

Did some test runs with two of my three loco's on the bench tonight, rather my daughter did. :) She loves them.

Man that Porter is T-I-N-Y.

The second Porter is new in box shrink wrapped - not gonna open until I can fully commit to On30 - but I could not pass up $46 shipped.

My wife agrees the On30 stuff is small, she likes the full O scale and the G scale, but she is warming up to the smaller layout not taking up most of the yard. If I did G or O it would probably be like a giant shelf layout around at least 2 sides of the yard. On30 will be like a long shelf layout along one wall. I have 50 ft. x 2-4ft (it varies) to play with. If you recall the pic of my yard, it will be on the 'top' portion of the back along the lag wall - so elevated for easier access (and a huge slope for a zig zag if I feel like picking away some solid granite in some places).

Si.
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" The second Porter is new in box shrink wrapped - not gonna open until I can fully commit to On30 "

:old dude:
I remember that M.I.B $1000 brass loco I bought back in '56
They'd only just invented that darn shrink-wrap stuff then
I opened it 2 years later
The damn %$&£@! had sold me a house-brick !!

I'd open it now
Check you aint bin stiffed !

:shocked:

Helmut F
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Guys,
After obtaining 3 On30 loco's and playing with them for a bit and looking at the others I have accumulated I have decided to NOT do On30.

I am going to do O scale, or traditional/semi-scale.  The On30 stuff is just plain too small.

I am now digging into O gauge/scale and learning as much as I can there.  What is cheap, what is not, etc.

To start I need track, and it looks like I am going to buy traditional O27 track and modify it by adding ties to make it look much better.

I will start a thread in the O forum here about track.  I have learned a lot in the last few days about it.

W C Greene
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Howdy Helmut, if you just buy "O27 track" then you can't run most "scale" locomotives. O27 has a radius of 13.5", less than most HO can curve. Go "O72" or so or if you want to add ties, look for GARGRAVES track. It has nice wood ties and flex track is available also.

Woodie

Helmut F
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Woody,
Thx.

Yep - got the O radius stuff - why is O the only one that is labeled by diameter?!? But my early thoughts are to have a "narrow gauge" section of the layout at the mines/logging area where the tight curve are and a "standard gauge" area of the layout where some bigger locos and other rolling stock can run.

I need to buy the track cheap; Gargarves is the antithesis of that (although Atlas is the super-antithesis!). Plus that wood will not hold up outside. I got cnfirmation today from Gartner The Train Doctor that the wood ties are Bass wood.

W C Greene
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Lionel had that idea about curves, probably so Dad could know how big a circle of track would be under the Christmas tree without having to get out a slide rule. They are the only ones to measure that way (I believe). As for the guy saying that basswood ties won't last outside, the handlaid track on bass ties that I had for some years in the back yard worked pretty well and my ties were smaller than Gargraves. early on I sprayed the track and wood structures with Thompson's Water Seal...maybe that was the key.
If you really want cheap then buy .125 rail by the bundle (33-3' sticks) and cut your own ties from bass or pine, etc. and lay the track yourself. There is a great price difference and the satisfaction is much greater.

Have fun...
Woodie

Robert Comerford
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Given the cost of track is a big decider for you, have you given any thought to making it yourself.
I'm not sure if they make code 148 aluminium rail but they do make code 250.
The section is bit big for O scale but outdoors some things work out OK in scenery that is 12" to the foot anyway.
Ali is usually much cheaper than brass or n/s.

One of our modellers over here, Ralph Holden, has had outdoor 1n42 (that's 1:32 on O gauge) layouts with balsa sleepers for decades. He creosotes them and then mixes up a mixture of concrete and ballast and wets it once in place. This last step is what he attributes to his success outdoors. I think he contributes to the US Garden Railway magazine at times.

One of the most effective ways to cut costs with track in any gauge is to make your own points. Having decided on battery/radio the electrical issues would be non existent.

cheers
BobC

Helmut F
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Bob,
Thx. I have thought about it but I would like to get some experience first. It depends upon how things go and time available vs. desire to get things up and running. Interesting on the balsa rails idea. I wonder if that could be modified to Western Red Cedar like I am looking at for the ties as it should hold up better.

Robert Comerford
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I would assume the western red cedar should work too Helmut.
Wood ties outdoors are not the best choice normally. Given Ralph has been able to keep balsa together for decades with his ballast mix says something for the method.
regards
BobC

Kitbash0n30
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Playing with the sounds and looks of words and not judging anyone's input,
When one states 'need help selecting scale', how much should one heed help selecting scale?

Last edited on Sat Oct 15th, 2016 08:37 pm by Kitbash0n30

Helmut F
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Hehe - yes, opinions are like - well you know what. Everyone has one. But that is valuable to me at least, plus there are quite a few people here that have vast amounts of experience and have tried some if not a lot of the things I was/am considering.

Ultimately I have to make the decision for myself, and lay blame on no other for my choices. For instance I was all gung ho On30 and bought track and locos. But that in itself was a learning experience. On30 is too small for me and how I want to set up my layout (outdoors).

So live and learn as they say. My locos are now up on eBay for sale and I might even make money on them as I really did get good deals. The switches ill go up for sale this weekend. I am also very happy with my direction now being O gauge, I do not have any trepidation about the size of rolling stock, conducting operations with potentially ham fisted non-model railroad friends, etc. Things may go slower due to cost of rolling stock, but I am OK with that too as long as I get *something* up and running soonish.

BTW Kitbash - I like your tag line "Screw the rivets, I'm building for atmosphere". Awesome, and pretty much how I feel about what I am trying to do!

Kitbash0n30
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:) Getting input is good in that things which didn't occur to you can come up. Plus, sort of "thinking out loud" and bouncing ideas around can help settle the direction.
There's always the possibility that a participant or lurker might see something, "Oh I hadn't though of that!" Or, "Ya know, that's kinda what I was thinking and couldn't pin words on." Or, "Seeing them work that idea out, nah, it doesn't sound as right for me as it did while having my midnight snack yesterday."

Helmut F
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"it doesn't sound as right for me as it did while having my midnight snack yesterday"

too true!

i just noticed your avatar - too funny!


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