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Do Sound Chips Self Discharge in Unused Locos ?
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 Posted: Thu Oct 20th, 2016 03:00 pm
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Salada
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Greetings All. There is a story going around my neck of the English woods that if a sound/motor control chip is wired into a loco but the loco is then not used for 9-10 months or so the sound effects somehow discharge via the motor connections and the chip is rendered useless, totally silent.
Several chaps swear this has happened................

Apparently this does not happen to non installed chips.

If true, I had better fire up a few locos, but is this true ? Has anyone else had this happen ?

Thanks & Regards, Michael

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 Posted: Thu Oct 20th, 2016 05:10 pm
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NathanO
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I have had sound locomotives that were not used for over a year and never had any problems.

Nathan

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 Posted: Thu Oct 20th, 2016 06:25 pm
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Nice Guy Eddie
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Sounds like a crock of $4!7 to me bud

Who are these numbskulls ?

Several chaps swear the moon is made of cream cheese


THAT DON'T MAKE IT SO !

:f:

Eddie



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 Posted: Thu Oct 20th, 2016 07:08 pm
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Helmut
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Ever heard of EEPROM memory, the standard nowadays? There is no way other than overvoltage ( which would effectively destroy it ) or programmed erasure to make them loose their contents. I don't know if there were ever CMOS-RAMS ( like those used in computerboards to keep BIOS values ) backed up by a 3V-Battery, to keep the sound files. If so, that would have been more than 20 yrs back.
BTW, in UK there are also many chaps that swear they have seen flying saucers:glad:

Last edited on Thu Oct 20th, 2016 07:09 pm by Helmut



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 Posted: Thu Oct 20th, 2016 07:43 pm
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Si.
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German Federal Minister of the Interior, Dr. Wolfgang Schaeuble :-

"… I have no knowledge of any official agency, institution or body that deals with or investigates sightings of unknown flying objects, so-called UFOs. Furthermore I have no knowledge of any such officials projects whatsoever."

L:

The newly revealed UFO-files by the BND now contradict this official version with a whole file-set of 67 pages already titled with "UFO".
The content of this files are "sightings of unidentified flying objects over the border zones between West Germany and the German Democratic Republic (GDR) and Chechoslovakia (CSSR)"

:shocked:

Si.

;)

Attachment: 02797.jpg (Downloaded 24 times)



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 Posted: Thu Oct 20th, 2016 07:55 pm
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Helmut
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Is that to say you claim our Minister of the Interior is an alien? The only flying saucers I've encountered so far were those thrown in anger by my Turkish wife. Those oriental girls have a temper, you know...



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 Posted: Thu Oct 20th, 2016 10:21 pm
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Salada
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My thanks to Nathan, Eddie, Helmut. Also thanks to Si, although I am not sure if I understand that particular reply ! Your comments are good news as I can now get on track planning & ballasting rather than having to run boring trains to retain their "chip life".

Helmut - these comments were about newer generation chips, not old school stuff.

Thanks All, Michael

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 Posted: Fri Oct 21st, 2016 02:40 pm
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bobquincy
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One answer is "maybe". Maybe self-erase in as little as a year, maybe more than 20 years.

From Wikipedia on flash memory:

"Archival or long-term storage

It is unclear how long flash memory will persist under archival conditions—i.e., benign temperature and humidity with infrequent access with or without prophylactic rewrite. Anecdotal evidence[specify] suggests that the technology is reasonably robust on the scale of years.[citation needed] Datasheets of Atmel's flash-based "ATmega" microcontrollers typically promise retention times of 20 years at 85 °C and 100 years at 25 °C.[70]

An article from CMU (Carnegie-Mellon) in 2015 writes that "Today's flash devices, which do not require flash refresh, have a typical retention age of 1 year at room temperature." And that temperature can lower the retention time exponentially. The phenomenon can be modeled by Arrhenius law.[71]"

Last edited on Fri Oct 21st, 2016 02:42 pm by bobquincy



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 Posted: Fri Oct 21st, 2016 03:52 pm
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Helmut
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And that worst-case data retention time is not at all dependent on any non-powered additional circuitry connected to the devices.... And it holds only if the devices are continuously subject to read-write operations. Lifetime for an EEPROM written to every 0.03 sec is  50mins, but when done so only once an hour it's already 11yrs! A sound file is read-only, so the stress exerted to the cell is absolutely minimal. If a cell has been written to fewer than 100,000 times, you can expect the most recently written data to be retained for at least 15 years. If the device is operated at 25°C, it is likely that the data will be retained for about 100 years.

Last edited on Fri Oct 21st, 2016 04:03 pm by Helmut



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 Posted: Fri Oct 21st, 2016 04:23 pm
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Salada
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Aha, the plot thickens a little ?

My further thanks to Bob & Helmut . Being a fully signed up Luddite I don't really understand the gizmo language but common sense tells me a year or three should be OK.

It will be a while before I can run a loco but I'll post back the outcome.

Regards, Michael

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