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mdrailbaron
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Good evening all,  Besides Woodie modeling in 3/8n20 is anyone modeling in 3/8n40?  After 40 years of being an On30 modeler I decided it was time to try 3/8n40.  This is using O standard gauge and building in 3/8's. In my On30 operating group there are two other guys that have started building 3/8's models and layouts.  So far we have asked and Ed Fillion at Deerfield River Laser has agreed to produce a number of laser cut scale 20' frames for us and a number of box car frames.  The problem is we don't know what we don't know in regards to detail parts and where to find them.  I have been using Hobby Linc for 1/35 people, Grandt Line O scale windows, Ed is going to laser cut us windows, various 1/48 and some 1/2 loco and freight car parts.  I am also using Athearn arch bar freight trucks and KD 805 couplers.  My railroad is in an 11' x 25' out building, it is U shaped with a center peninsula.  The track is code 100 hand laid with stub turnouts and Caboose Industries ground throws and hand cut ties. I have three kit bashed locos, the first is a small box cab with pantograph, the mechanism is a K-Line 4 wheel diesel, the second loco is a center cab diesel with a custom built chain drive and brass frame.  I used the Atlas O scale 3 axel for parts and scratch built the cab.  The third loco that I am working on is the K-Line 0-4-0 saddle tank Porter, which is being converted to a small diesel/gas mechanical with side rods, that will be used to switch the pier.  All of the locos are radio controlled battery powered using the Del Tang system.  I will convert the two diesels to the MRC sound genie at a later date.   So if any of you have or are modeling in 3/8's and can help me track down other modelers or where to source out parts I would be most appreciative.   BTW, the On30 railroad is alive and well and sometime next year I will have an article published in Narrow Gauge Downunder.  So thanks again for any help.
Steve Fisher

Si.
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Hi Steve :wave:

I nearly did what you are doing in 1:32
I had found 1:24n3 a bit too big & wanted something more compact, but still 'large scale'.

My current project is in 1:35n2, where the HUGE amount of possible kits & parts from military-modeling is massive.
I have found a 'mix' of parts, as you have, from other scales can work very well, for these 'unusual' railroading scales.

I in part came to think around this scale, from liking the size of things with 1:32 slotcars.

Have you got any photos of any of you & your pals new project stuff ?

Be great to see them.

All the best.

:moose:

Si.

mdrailbaron
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Good evening Si,
  Thanks for your thoughts, our three member group likes to say, "the other large scale, only smaller" and I agree I went 1/35 for the detail parts and figures. At the moment I have a few comparison shots but nothing in the way of scenes on the railroad.  Since I am a techno dinosaur, if you will write me off line at: traindadders@gmail.com I will gladly send you what I have.
  When I started in On30 40 years ago, we didn't have the internet so it was hard to find people who were modeling in On30.  Now that we have an Internet, I can't find anyone, I know someone else has to be modeling in this but I can find them.
 SO, the best to you and thanks for your help and thoughts.
Steve Fisher

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Hi Steve :wave:

If you need help Posting photos, just ask.

The quickest & simplest way though, is to use the 'Attachment' button, as the bottom of the 'Main' reply-window.

800-wide is a good size to Post.

They have to be re-sized to under 0.5 Megabytes.

Don't know if you knew, but 1:32 is the old scale used for all 'Patent Application' models.

:moose:

Si.

mdrailbaron
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SI,
  I just recently read that factoid about Patent models, very interesting.  I also just recently saw somewhere where a guy saved most of the models that were going to be thrown away.  I am not sure but believe he is or did start a museum some where here in the States.  Now I could be completely mixed up about this and if I am sorry if it is misinformation.  Never sure if the voices are telling me the truth or not.
  As I said I am a techno dinosaur, so will have to ask one of my grand kids to help on photo posting when they come over.  Where we live we don't have any type of high speed Internet so data is limited as is speed but the good news is, our County is paying to have a double buried fiber ring placed.  It is 75% complete and we should have a Gig to the house by March, but then they told us we would have it by end of summer, by end of November, and by Christmas.  Oh, we are still waiting.
Anyway, again thanks for your help and information,
Steve 

W C Greene
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Howdy Steve, when I began the old Mogollon Railway, I chose 1:32n20 as the scale/gauge because it was (is) so very easy to convert On30 lokies & trucks & O scale details into nice 1:32 items. I had really wanted to model a "two footer" but didn't think about using 1:35 scale...heck, most of the details and figures were already 1:35 anyway. One day I got out my 1:35 scale ruler and measured the track (16.5MM) and found that it appeared to be pretty much "right on" for 24" gauge! That's when I started calling what I was building 35n2. "Proper" 1:35 scale autos are not available for what I wanted but 1:32 scale offers fine old Model T's and other cool autos & trucks and those 1:35 scale figures didn't look "odd" around them. Matter of fact, I got a box of expensive Preiser 1:32 figures to compare and out of 6 figures, 4 were the same "size" as my 1:35 figures and two were around 7 feet tall-in 1:32 scale! They must have been basketball players.
I was taken by what modeler Greg Wright had built and shown in the NG&SLG, he was building 1:32n20. I knew there was another outlaw who thought like me.
So, here I am in an "odball" scale but loving it!
As for 35/32 scale parts, it just takes some looking at what Grandt has in O scale, old timer SELLEY makes beautiful curly spoked O scale brakewheels which work in larger scale, and others make details which may look a bit "coarse" for the O scale purist but fill the bill for this slightly larger scale. Atlas & Athearn O scale trucks look great for 40" gauge and can be converted for nice 36" gauge trucks also. Matter of fact, I have some standard gauge on my layout, the trucks are modified NEW BRITE toy train archbar trucks which scale out just right in 1:32/35. It pays to look at toys, etc. as "kitbash fodder".
And the economic values: a box of 1:35 shop tools (military kit) goes for about $7 or so and those 1:32 Model T's can be found sometimes for $10 bucks for 2 models (sale prices). Just think about how much they would be if labeled "for model railroad use"? And frankly, the detail on die cast autos & trucks surpass those on really expensive O scale models! (my opinion anyway).
Wheew...are you convinced yet?
Si is already pervert...um...converted and several of my friends are likewise.

Have fun & run a train RIGHT NOW!
Woodie



Above: NMRA HO standards gauge with 1:35 scale ruler...pretty close to 2 footer, huh?

mdrailbaron
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Woodie,
 thanks for your comments and ideas, I couldn't agree more.  I had started about 10 years ago, going down this pathway in the front part of the basement, when the guys in my On30 group started to complain that the Deep Run RR didn't go but so far.  I should say that the railroad took up about 2/3 of a 1900' square foot basement, at the time.  Anyway, my real love and commitment was and still is the On30 so I decided to book shelf the two locos and 8 scratch built freight cars; but the desire to build the 3/8's would not go away.  I got close twice to taking down and selling off a 40 year old railroad but could never pull the trigger.
  This past winter found me keeping the wood stove fed, a book in one hand, a cup of coffee in the other, and a cat in my lap and no desire to do any modeling.  I finally was put on the hot seat by my wife and was asked to explain myself, since as she tells every one, the railroad had become a second job for me. So we decided I needed another project, even though the On30 has plenty to keep me happy and busy.  So the long story short is that I cleaned out the saw dust shop, also known as the wood working shop, put the equipment in another building and started to design this new railroad. I have had a few missteps in the track design but nothing too major and the ideas are still flowing.  I did take your advice and ran the  little box cab and now will take some afternoon time to relax and read.
  I really appreciate your and Si's comments and hope someday to post pictures, where is a kid when you need them?  Wishing you all the best for the New Year, for me two railroads to work on how much better can it get.  Lastly, I forgot to say in the beginning of this note just how much I have liked and enjoyed not only your modeling but your approach to it, first outdoors and second in the living space of your home.  I couldn't do outdoors modeling here in Maryland, either too much humidity in summer or just to nasty for me in winter, at least the out building and house have heat in the respective railroad spaces.
Well, wishing you all the best
Steve

W C Greene
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Steve, I really enjoyed the outdoor layout with "room to build" but now I APPRECIATE being in the living room. My housemate and lady friend always show visitors what is what and even if it isn't running at the moment, everybody likes to look around. When we do "operate", the ladies love to run the little 4-4-0 and tourist car, the slow Shays and ore car business is left to me. Yep, those cold rainy days don't keep me from running a train.But I still miss the trees & birds.

Woodie

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And the leaves, and bird poop---

Herbie

Lee B
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Check out the 5th page of this link, as there's a 1:32 mining layout near me that uses HO track. It's very well done and I love doing op sessions at this layout:
http://www.opsig.org/doff/DOpages/SoundRail%20Review.pdf
This publication has an article on that layout but you gotta pay for it: https://www.tracksidemodelrailroading.com/magazine/past-issues/2014-archive/sep-2014/

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Good afternoon Lee,
 Thanks for the page, I will read it later today, it is nice to see what others are doing.  Now that I have finished my coffee break, the boss says time to get back to working on the last diesel for the railroad.
Thanks again to all,
 Steve

mdrailbaron
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Good evening Lee,
 Thanks for the link, I just love to see what the pioneers like Woodie, Si, and others are doing, it gives me insight.
Steve

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Hi again Steve :wave:


I have modeled, over the years, in N, OO, HO, On3, O, 1:24n3, G, 1:12

Some have been only 'try outs', some more serious & long lasting.

It was not really apparent to me WHAT scale or gauge I really liked the most.

I suppose I was a 'classic' RUBBERGAUGER !

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH !!


Rubbergauging, IMO, is the DISEASE ! of model railroading !!

For me at any rate, in slotcars, the choice of scale is EASY.

Although you can get HO, 1:43 & 1:24 slotcars ...

... 1:32 is really where it's AT !


1:24 is WAY too big for slotcars, unless you have a BARN and BINOCULARS to race the things (possibly OK for clubs).

HO & 1:43 slotcars IMO don't have the 'weight & mass' to perform in quite the same way as 1:32 ones do.

So the choice IMO is an easy one.


In railroading 'weight & mass' is not really the issue.

I would say the issue is 'human scale'.

The question I asked myself was, how big do I want my model human figures to be ? ...

... & can I fit the other items such as railroad stuff & structure in with that choice ?


After a period of uncertainty & testing out mostly 1:35 military kits, such as figures & small vehicles, I decided it was.

I still have my 1:24n3 models, also a small amount of HO & some 1:12 figures and bits.

BUT ... I am no longer a 'rubbergauger' really (thank goodness) ...

... There is no doubt in my mind, that 1:35n2 is where I'm at, till they nail the lid on !! ;)


That is a nice feeling, as I am 'pacing' my new experiment, with a long-range schedule in mind.

Rolling-stock first, then structures, then layout building.

Of course this in practice is all overlapping a bit, but I'm sure you get what I mean.


In any case ...

... I'm having FUN !


:moose:


Si.


My thanks also to the Texan train-baron, Woodie :cb: for helping to get me on the straight & 'narrow' ! ;)


:bg:

mdrailbaron
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Good evening Si,
 I do understand and though I early on tried HO and HOn3 once I discovered On30 that was it.  I still don't remember nor do I know why one day I started down the 3/8 road. As much as I like the look of On30, my railroad takes up almost a 1900 square foot basement, I really liked the proportion of the 3/8's stuff.
  I like lots of detail to bring to life the scenes we try to create and so it is important to do the same with the larger sizes.  In fact I am surprised just how long it takes to build something now.  One can no longer cheat and not add the NBW's or nail holes or hinges and the like. I like the bulk of G Scale but even in my basement I would never be able to pull it off, when it comes to detail, the costs would really be too much.  I think one can have well detailed scenes at about the same price as O scale.
 As I see it, it is all about the journey and the creativity.  Thanks for your help and thoughts it causes me to reflect and that is always a good thing.
Wishing you a Happy New Year,
Steve

Paul W
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Hi Steve

Well, finally found your 'official' posting on 3/8n40.

Precision Scale Co has some 3/8" scale parts listed in their large scale catalogue http://www.precisionscaleco.com/Large%20Scale%20Catalog.pdf although some stuff listed as 3/8" is possibly better described as 'multi scale'. With a small following in New Zealand modelling 42" gauge on O-gauge track, we have a few parts such as Westinghouse 6" combined brake set (K-brake), headlights, air pump, turbo generator, cowcatchers etc available as brass or pewter castings. I make some passenger and freight trucks in cast pewter which could be adapted to take O-scale wheelsets such as NWSL's - the wheelsets we use are 'finescale' with tiny flanges so they might not work for you anyway.

I use Kadee 804 and 805 couplers, so probably nothing new for you there.

NZ 9mm:ft modellers have tended to look to 1:35 military model kits for parts to adapt, vehicles and figures. I look for kits for tank or aircraft maintenance crews because the figures are often wearing overalls which are easier to alter to 'civilian' appearance than a military uniform, plus they might have tools which can be used in a workshop scene. Preiser makes some nice 1:32 unpainted figures, albeit in very European clothing styles.

Recently I figured out how to make steam loco driving wheel centres using Shapeways' Black-Strong-Flexible, and it has turned out more successful than I had dared to hope - the 'flexible' is really a misnomer, 'tough' is more accurate. This is awesome for crazy people like me who model in awkward scales because now I don't have to use compromises like Slaters O-scale wheels with their too-many and too-fine spokes; instead I can make very accurate copies of the prototypes. I am working very hard to improve my skills on my lathe so that I can make my own tyres consistently. My accuracy improved markedly when I fitted digital read-outs to my lathe - it is old and has imperial handwheels, which I just cannot get my head around, being brought up in the metric era!

Regards
Paul Woods
Whangarei, NZ.

mdrailbaron
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Paul,
 thank you so much for the information, it is truly a Godsend, also please accept my apology for not answering sooner.  We have moved over to a new computer and I am trying to learn the new system. What you have sent me will be a big help.
Again thank you,
Steve

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Money, Scale & Eyeballs

I recently stumbled across a couple of model railroad blogs where newcomers were asking about what radius to use in HO scale.  While they received a lot of good information some modelers suggested that they might look into N scale as a fair size empire could be built on the old 4 x 8 foot sheet of plywood.

I use to model in HO.  Built a decent size pike in a spare bedroom many years ago.  A move brought the end to that railroad.  I started to collect Lionel and built a few layouts, including my current one which is about 4 x 10 feet.  I also dabbled a little in On30.

Nature abhors a vacuum; so the smaller the scale the greater the desire to fill all available space.  That requires many engines and cars...Money.  But it seems the reverse happens with larger Scales as it often doesn't take much to fill up available space...therefore less money is spent on locomotives and equipment.  Besides the larger scales are much easier on the old Eyeballs.

So, I've decided to follow in Woodie and Si's footsteps and dive into 35n2.  I have already acquired a few figures, a couple of autos, an ore car, and have just started on my first adobe structure.  My future model railroad will be located out in the desert servicing a few silver mines and hauling borax.  Because space is limited, as well as money, I need to choose my railroad equipment carefully and tailor it to the industries being serviced.  Maybe 2 locos and 8-10 freight cars would be all I need...keep it cheap and simple.  Everything will be kitbashed or scratch built except for the track which will just use HO products.

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Because space is limited, as well as money, I need to choose my railroad equipment carefully and tailor it to the industries being serviced

So you are just following the prototype to the letter. Way to go!.
Jose.

W C Greene
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Howdy all, consider this also...in a larger scale like 1:35 or 1:32, you actually need LESS to fill a given space. That stated, probably less locomotives and rolling stock to build, less structures since they are larger, adaptability of other scales to modify, etc., and the cost? Once again, that Italiari 1:35 "Field Tool Kit" may cost under 10 bucks USD, if it were available for "model railroad use", it would cost over $50 USD or maybe more. Model railroaders are "used" to paying more for stuff. Figures (even counting the time to modify soldiers) are less and most cases are much better detailed than O scale mens costing a lot more. And so on, so on...
Yes, there's a case for the "in between" scales. Why do I like 1:35? Because it is cheaper, has lots of details, and it probably won't be promoted by big model railroad manufacturers. Imagine Bachmann offering a "1:35n2 Porter 0-4-2t", it would probably cost $400 or so. Hmmmmm...

Woodie

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In my humble opinion I think that On30 has become very expensive for most modelers unless you are willing to do modifications on your own.  Bachmann equipment has gone straight up in price.

Working in 35n2 I think I can use the 'good enough' principal with my models.  After all we live in an imperfect world.

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To be truthful, I bought both On30 Shays and Porters back when I worked for a hobby shop, paid cost. But then, the Porters retailed for 50 bucks, I paid 26 or so. The Shays were a little over 100, my cost was about 60. So, that was when the On30 "craze" started and prices were less...no DCC or sound effects. There's no way I could afford these today so I keep them running. These days, I spend money on 1:35 military details parts or things like the 1:48 dozer which I "upscaled". "Good enough" is fine for me but remember that larger models need more and better detailing...but that's just my "thing".

Woodie

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I am surprised in some ways more people aren't doing 1:35n2


Perfect for some of the U.K. 2ft thereabouts railways as well.


As a railroader though, I had heard of 1/4" 1/2" On30 etc even 1:32 to a certain extent.


But 1:35 ?


I never heard of it really, since I just aint even been a military modeller...

...except for a bit of 1:32 & 1:76 toy stuff as a kid.


There are some interesting loco bodies & bits available from smallbrookstudios.co.uk these days as well...

...although not as popular as On30 by a long way.


I guess On30 gives you the option of R.T.R or kits & scratchbuilding.

But 1:35 is scratchbuild only.


It is cheap though, the military trucks figures & parts etc. are just not expensive like some modelrailroading stuff.

Nice cheap diecast trucks from eBay 'junk' means even this part isn't a crazy expense.


:bg:


Si.

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I was thinking (often a bad idea) of putting a little music inside a 1:35 scale building I'm working on.  Given the era that one is modeling it shouldn't be too hard to come up with something.  This is what I had in mind since I'm modeling a western narrow gauge somewhere out in eastern California of Nevada around the 1920s-1930s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdbRn9cl0dk
                              ("The Wild, Wild West - Main Theme" by The City of
                               Prague Philharmonic Orchestra)

Who could forget this:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuCuf5tvTqE

Or even The Magnificent Seven Theme:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XDB7GMnbUQ


Woodie, I'd bet some of this might sound good on your Mogollon Railway.

Need to come up with some kind of small CD player and a decent speaker.  Might work.  Wonder what I can scrounge up?

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The smallest CD player will be somewhat larger than a CD itself, and you need access to the controls. What if you just put a speaker inside?.
Jose.

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Hi Michael :wave:

This MP3-player uses a microSD-card & operates on about 7-12 Volts.

They are available on eBay for about $2.00c inc P&P ! :shocked:

It also has a built-in 3+3 Watt amplifier !! :cool:

& comes with remote-control and wiring looms !

:moose:

Si.

Can be used by Mooses, if you can find earphones with a large enough headband. ;)

:pimp:

.

Attachment: 8449.1.jpg (Downloaded 39 times)

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.

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Si.
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" What if you just put a speaker inside?."


Would have to be really with the MP3-player...

...as the remote-control is an I.R. type.

You could 'aim' through an open window though ! ;)


:moose:


Si.

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..as the remote-control is an I.R. type.

Bluetooth anyone?.
Jose.

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Thanks Jose !

Our top-ticket trashologist has hit the jackpot (or the trash bin) again ! :bg:

It normally takes around 5 coffees before things start to work good here ! ;)

I think I was up to about 3 earlier.

This teeny-tweeny lil' Bluetooth board has been used successfully for experimental sound.

Costs about a Buck Fifty from you know where & has a built-in 3+3 Watt amplifier.

It will play all your favorite Madonna tracks from the cellphone...

...or even The Magnificent Seven by The Clash !! ;)

:brill:

Si.
.

Attachment: Bluetooth.jpg (Downloaded 34 times)

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Tocatta and Fugue in D minor. JS Bach. LOUD.
Jose.

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Good evening Michael, I am taking a some what different approach to what Woodie and Si are doing by using O standard gauge track and mechs, think On30 only larger.  I am still using all of the appropriate military stuff that I can along with a bunch of O scale items that will work.  As the two really narrow gauge experts said, this is truly a builders scale.  I have yet to find anyone on the net that is doing what I am doing, talk about being alone.  I have two guys in my On30 operating group that have decided to try this as well, who says misery doesn't like company? Anyway, my un-named railroad is located on an island somewhere north of me, maybe Nova Scotia or PEI,maybe Newfoundland, don't really know.  Anyway, the railroad is about 15 or 20 miles long, it goes to the pier and picks up or sends out product for the two towns on the island.  They make "Rhetoric" for the Nations Capitol down in America.  It comes in a dry form, you simply add water and it becomes  a gas, which you simply breathe in and it allows you to pontificate,  and it comes pre-gaseous either way same results. I have been an On30'er for more then 40 years, have a railroad that fills a 1900 square foot basement, with an operating group of 10-15 crazy people, but have to say I like the 3/8n40 better.  I have found out that if you want to do fine scale modeling, as I like to do, it takes longer and more detail is needed, be prepared, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.  Since I am in no hurry, wait I turn 70 this month, I like the extra challenge of how to fine detail this railroad but once I have finished a model I usually like the looks.  I wish you well in your modeling, please post pictures.  Since I am not that versed in computerese, you would have to send a private message to get any photos from me.  BTW, right now I have only construction shots, not interesting.OK, that is it for now, best of luck,Smodeling 3/8n40, the other large scale only smaller

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Hi Steve, you are certainly not alone but there probably not a lot of others.
What you are doing is normally called 1n3-1/2. Usually followed by modellers of 3'6" railways who want to use O gauge track. Been around for decades.
Scales vary with 9mm ,10mm and 3/8" in common use. Some very nice indoor layouts done by the Kiwi's in 9mm.
If you have access to Garden Railways magazine, there were often articles from a modeller in South Australia (Ralph Holden) who has been building outdoor layouts in this scale/gauge combination for decades. He even has a book published called "A Stupid Undertaking".
cheers
BobC

mdrailbaron
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Hi Bob, thanks for this information, do you know if there is anything on the net?  If it is alright and I suspect it is, I will keep calling it 3/8n40, only because what you have stated is a mouthful to get out and right now I already have one foot in there.I am hoping to someday come across someone else who is doing this.It is much appreciated,Thanks,Steve

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http://www.minnipasiding.com.au/sar-epd.html

have a look at this for starters steve

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Bob, That is so cool, now that is what I am talking about.  Since I liver in Maryland, I doubt that I would ever consider modeling outside.Thanks for the link,Steve

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Call it what you want Steve, it's your railway :>)
However you will be more likely to find things on the web by googling either 9mmm scale or gauge one apart from the obvious 1/32 scale.
regards
BobC

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Bob,  Thanks, I am being lazy tonight, have the blues music show going on the radio, the wife is away at a quilting event and the animals are fed, so I will learn things that I never knew before.A hot cup of coffee and heading into the net.Again, thanks so very much,Steve


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Bluetooth? What does the dentist prescribe for that most common malady?

Woodie

***Also, I can't believe anybody would build a layout outside! And what is this 1:35/1:32 business anyway?***



Time for a drank anyway!

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Hi Steve :wave:


I'm not sure if I mentioned this before or not ?

You may already have seen this stuff, way back when, in the N.G.& S.L.G.


The first person I ever saw doing 9.525n3 1/3 ;) was a dude called Robert A. M. Stephens I believe.

He did 1/2" scale turn of the century logging previously, but found 1:24 was a bit big for an indoor layout...

...so he adopted 1:32 & O-gauge track.


I seem to recall he may well have been a professional model-builder also, as he did speak of 'jobs for customers'.

Seems he did create some interest in 3/8n40...

...although his customers in the ended demanded 1 1/8" gauge !

( wealthy rivet-counters by the sounds of it ! ;) )


I did in fact look this guy up on the net a few years ago, when I got back into building stuff.

I managed to turn up absolutely NOTHING though ! ( kinda pre net era I guess ).

But in doing so 'discovered' 1:35n2


His project name was always 'Stillwater Mills' I seem to remember.

This is Gazette kinda late '80s era by the way.


:moose:


Si.

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Good evening Si,  I know of him and didn't give him a thought until you brought it to my attention, I know he built esoteric stuff but didn't remember that it was 3/8n40.  I may be off base here and if I am I apologize but it seems to me he ran afoul of someone over some issues, not necessarily model railroad related.  I do remember he would soften truck springs and put a drop of water in the axel holes, so it would squeak.  He would tout that his equipment was heavy enough to bend a paper match when run over.  Wow, talk about going into the Way Back Machine, seems he lived maybe in Montana or the Dakotas.  Since I didn't save any Gazettes and if he isn't on the net, it might be hard to find any of his stuff on the Net.Si, thanks a bunch,

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Hi again Steve :wave:


I did actually find this :-


http://www.finescalerr.com/outdoor_railroader_articles/1-32-Scale-Narrow-Gauge.htm


Not much & no pix. also not dated, but take a look anyway.


:moose:


Si.

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You want indoors Steve.
Try this for starters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t4zXi4lszY

and

http://nzmrg.org.nz/media/gallery/gal4e24a243ea972.jpg

cheers
BobC

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Good morning, Bob and Si thank you for your postings both are not only interesting but most helpful, it certainly keeps the fires of creativity going full tilt.  I have a full day of modeling ahead, since my wife won't be home from her quilting gathering until late today.  Bob, my railroad is in a 11' x 25' out building, it runs point to point with a peninsula in the middle, this is where the docks are. The two un-named towns are at each end of the points.  I have built three locos, the first is a small 4 wheeled box cab with pantograph, the second is a 4 wheel center cab diesel, and the third a small 4 wheel cab unit that switches the dock and what ever industries and warehouses that might populate the middle.  All of the rolling stock except for one caboose are 20' two trucks, the small caboose is a 4 wheel bobber. I am using battery power, radio control and I like the fact that I din't need to waste my time wiring the railroad.  Since this railroad will be operated by just me and an occassional guest, I am going to add an overhead single wire, something I have wanted to do for years.  when you have an operating group my size and age, it would have been very foolish to do overhead in O scale. Again, many thanks to both of you,Steve 

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" I am going to add an overhead single wire, something I have wanted to do for years."


Hi Steve :wave:


WAY TO GO !


Operating catenary is the aim for my HO pantograph steeple-cab.

I have wanted to do this for years as well.


I like the sound of your loco fleet Steve. :cool:

There seems to be a growing fan-club for overhead-wiring operations here at freerails. :bg:


:moose:


Si.

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Hi, Si, this has been a dream for a very long time but knew with an operating group, it would have been total destruction for my over head with the group I have.  We all suffer large thumb disease and since the On30 was built for operation having over head was out.  As I stated, it will be mostly me and hopefully when the time comes I won't destroy it.Well, lunch is over and time to get back to the 3/8's whatever it is called,Steve

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Hi Steve :wave:


I would have loved operating catenary when I was a kid.

Just imagine that ! ... TWO locos operating on ONE track !

Yep I'd figured that out as a kid.


My Dad said though...

...working catenary is for GROWN UPS !


I guess he was probably right.

Oh well ... I guess I'm 'grown up' enough to give it a go now ! ;)


:moose:


Si.


Herb has an AWESOME THREAD in the trolley Forum, for anyone who needs to know how to get real working catenary built & operating.


From the horses mouth, and all that ! ;)

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Good luck with the overhead. I have had it operating in smaller scales back years ago. I came to the conclusion it was a maintenance nightmare. Since then I have only modelled the stanchions. Most of the fun with none of the headaches.

Might try some of that stretchy thread one of these days as it can be pushed out of the way for maint and scenicing etc. Only have the spiders to deal with then :>)
regards
BobC

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Hi Bob, It will be non functional and with a large pantograph hopefully it won't be a problem.  I have thought about the elastic string as well.  I have a long way to go before I can even consider this.  Also, it might be limited to a small area and not the entire railroad.  A long way to go and much to think about.Spiders are minimal, I have the building treated every 4 months.S

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Hi Steve :wave:


Knicker-elastic isn't the greatest electrical-conductor...

...I guess it doesn't matter for dummy operation though. ;)


Herb swears by phospher-bronze wire I believe...

...panty-hose is kinda tricky to solder to.


Might need supergluing up...

...so it won't come down during critical ops. ;)


:bg:


Si.

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I ain't contemplating building an overhead operation in my scale, I would, however, consider actually using live overhead. Yes, I would need to clean the rails sometime but I would use the overhead and track to power an r/c receiver in the box motor/locomotive.Yes, I am crazy but that's what I would at least try to do. I suppose a dummy overhead is OK, but I'm just funny that way.

Woodie

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Provided the trackwork is plain, you might be happy with live overhead. The maintenance/accessibility problem is always lurking in the background. Even  Bob Hegge of CMRR fame removed his catenary one day.

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I had catenary once. Never again!.
Jose.

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Good morning, I thank you all for your comments and have to say there are enough opinions to keep me in a state of confusion for a long time. I had an opportunity to speak with a fellow modeler who has a very large HO railroad that is under catenary and an operating group.  I found that he used a very thin piano wire soldered to brass eyelets for his system.  He said the advantage is it doesn't sag and since it is not electrically charged, it became scenery so to speak. I am not sure once I get started just how far I will go but I do want to try it.  I really doubt that I will use the elastic string, I have seen it in demonstrations but not really sure I like it.  I do like the idea of the piano wire.  I guess it comes down to how much aggravation I am willing to put up with.  Worse case is I don't do it and remove the pantograph from the box cab.  Woodie, I don't think trying to charge a r/c reciever is a particularly good idea but might be worth a try, who knows!  This bit about over head and how reliable it will be is mute if you consider I am using battery r/c, then who cares, it is just detail.     OK, that is my take on this and I really appreciate the exchange of ideas, now to a full day of model railroading and other exciting things.Steve

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To me the sound of pole or pan going along the wire is part of the traction appeal.
I need to have live wire again, been about a decade thanks to moves and life changes.

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Helmut wrote: Provided the trackwork is plain, you might be happy with live overhead. The maintenance/accessibility problem is always lurking in the background. Even  Bob Hegge of CMRR fame removed his catenary one day.

I never knew that!
It was photos of his O gauge layout that inspired me to have a go at catenary.
regards
 BobC

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Good evening, First off my friend Ryan is going to post pictures of my 3/8's work, since this machine still remains a mystery to me, but then so does keeping beer fresh in a can.  Secondly, would someone please explain the meaning of "plain track"? I would think what is meant that there aren't a lot of cross overs and special track work.  Mine is a single track main line that branches off to the pier and saw mill or goes straight over to the other town.  There is no special track work of any kind, so this would be plain in my mind.  I am not even sure that the over head would branch off, probably goes from one town to the other, the train to the pier and saw mill would be the center cab diesel.OK, thanks again all, your conversations have been most helpful and at time humorous.Steve

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Hi Steve :wave:


I was just wondering...

...if you wanted to do SOME but not ALL catenary...

...maybe just the pier section could be operated by overhead.


Or another location with it's own local switcher.


Just an idea.

Perhaps they didn't want the noise & pollution of diesel at certain spots...

...a pier or mine perhaps could be good examples of this.


:moose:


Si.


Good news on the pix. Steve ... WE LOVE PIX. !

I was about to offer to Post some for you myself.


If you can get your pix. resized to 800-pixels wide though...

...using the Freerails 'attachment-button' is really SO SO simple.


You just press it, in the MAIN reply-window, click on your photo & that's it, hit the Post button.

You can attach 1 photo to any Post doing this & is really worth learning.

It could not be simpler.

Try it, if it goes wrong, we can always delete any excess Posts. :bg:

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Good evening,Si, thanks for the idea, as I have said in the past, I have a long way to go before this can happening, but it is good to get as many ideas as possible. Who knows what the future will provide.  Certainly limiting it, to the pier and center peninsula, would make a lot of sense, light weight loco and if it has to switch the saw mill, planning mill, and what ever else comes along so much the better.OK, time to make dinner for my wife and me, I will check in later,Steve

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Steve, plain track is any track that is not a point or crossover. Your length of flextrack is plain track.
cheers
Bob

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Si. wrote

...if you wanted to do SOME but not ALL catenary...

this anticipated my question.

Q: would prototype practice allow shared rails with a non-electric locomotive?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unhXEQQk8G8&index=245&list=PLswKyja_xQfJuj-5B_9h072k9LT5WKbqf

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Good morning, I believe the answer is yes, we have it here in Maryland on the Northeast corridor with Amtrak and Norfolk Southern, sharing track under wire.  As this thread pertains to my small island railroad the answer would be the same.   Since Si and others gave me their ideas, I think the story goes like this;  when the mining company came to the island to mine Rhetoric, they brought with them a railroad to get the raw product from the mine to the pier.  Since the islanders are very poor, mostly farmers and watermen, the mining concern knew they would never be able to pay for it. So the Company did the right thing, they built an island wide railroad and allowed others to rent equipment to ship their products.  As the years went by the railroad told the islanders that if they would simply help maintain the railroad all costs would be forgivien for shipping their products.  Well, this made sense since every family had someone working for the railroad many times it was father/son or brothers, uncles and a few aunts and sisters did the clerical work.  During the height of the winter most fishermen couldn't go out anyway so they too worked for the railroad.  it was a very workable and everyone benefited. As the years went by it became very clear that the Company needed a couple of extra locos, so along came the 4 wheeled switcher and the larger center cab to haul the freight from one end of the island to the other.  Well the overhead wire was in place and still worked and the company decided to keep it and just add the other two locos.  Now the electric loco goes from the mines and the north side yard down to the pier and back, while the center cab hauls between both towns and occasionally down to the pier. Well I guess that not only answers the question is there shared rail, regardless of the form of motive power, but also how and where the over head will go some day.  As an aside, I did hear tell that early on if the small electric box cab hadn't worked out, they meaning the company, were going to pull the gear out of the loco and replace it with a small diesel engine, but it did work out and that seems to be the end of the story for now.Wishing you all happy trails, parallel rails, and trains that run on time, more or less,
Steve

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Hi Steve :wave:


The 'back story' is def. the way to go for me these days as well.


I started with a Shay & Porter, and a lil' story to go with them.

Along came a Mogul & some possible railbus-bodies ... the story grew a bit.


My story at the moment has THREE operations on shared trackage.

1. Mining

2. Railbus service

3. Through traffic


I couldn't justify the Mogul for my small mining idea...

...so it became a through-train, starting & ending, who knows where ?


I don't actually have a layout or even a trackplan yet...

...but the models I am making 'fit the story' & gradually a trackplan that makes sense will evolve.


:moose:


Si.

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southpier wrote: Q: would prototype practice allow shared rails with a non-electric locomotive?Looking at prototype electric railways universally, yes.
Looking at any specific location and date, things will vary.

In general it is practical to have at least a couple pieces of non-catenary power for if the catenary goes down, or has to be shut down for maintenance. That power could be battery, internal combustion, steam.

Might even be a situation or industry somewhere on line requiring a flameproof loco of some kind, internal combustion, fireless stored steam.

Last edited on Tue Mar 7th, 2017 06:09 pm by Kitbash0n30

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thanks for the perspectives. i've always liked the idea of overhead wires in an urban setting.

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All I can say is I'm pleased my Cadillac doesn't need overhead wires



Keep the pedal to the metal !


:f:


Eddie

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@southpier
Overhead and two-rail-operation on a modelrailroad have some pitfalls to avoid. One of the rails is normally used as common return for overhead and two-rail operation. That requires insulated wheels in the 'Juice Jacks', as only one side carries the return current, anfd the other side must be insulated in order to eliminate shorts. The danger in this arrangement lies in inadvertent wrong orientation of the overhead vehicle, because its motor may be exposed to double the operating voltage. This happens when both throttles are fully open and  e.g. the wire is postive, whereas the other rail is negative, referred to the return rail. The workaround is to have a changeover switch that allows for overhead operation by shorting the two rails and cuts out the two rail-supply, and vice versa.

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If mixing overhead power and conventional self-contained locomotives, you might find it a whole lot easier to just run everything as 2-rail and forget about using functional catenary. Another possibility is on-board battery for the self-contained locomotive - Deltang is a name often repreated, but there are several other systems too.

Regards
Paul Woods

Whangarei, NZ.

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with apology if i led anyone to think i have the "electronic acumen" to have live overhead: it would strictly be "for show".

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Ah, okay. I'd like to try to talk you in to doing a short straight track a couple feet long on a board - just so you can say you tried. :) (if you haven't already) And straight overhead is the easiest to build, especially when it is simple suspension, basically one wire hung from brackets.
Take a two foot board; paint, seal, that kind of thing; put track on it; drill on track centerline at ends; insert metal rods; wrap trolley wire around rod at more or less the proper height. Feed power to one rail and to overhead for overhead capable equipment, and there ya go, a live wire test track!
Also a great place to try your hand at intermediate support poles and hangers.

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OK, run the motor with r/c and onboard batteries but for goodness sake, please put up overhead with wire, not stretchy thread!Maybe more work but it will look tons better and you will be happy with the look. Then you haven't got wired track or any problems, just wires overhead.

Woodie-too scared to do this myself.

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Woodie, now work with me slow in take of air, now hold it, let it out slowly yes, do that a couple  of more times and you will be in your happy spot, all is good! See I am a willow, this works every time when the struggle becomes real.  All silliness aside, I plan on having dead wire over head and I am totally committed to r/c battery, the On30 railroad has 38 locos all r/c battery, there is NO other way.  At this point I do not see any kind of wire for at least a year.  This railroad is a creative journey, even though I am turning 70 I see no rush to finish it any time soon.  Now if I can get Ryan to post the photos I sent him you all could see what I am doing.  In the mean time, I have to go finish getting the On30 ready for Saturday's ops session, I can't disappoint the guys.Later,Steve

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Dummies

Knicker elastic

&

DelTang


WOW !


Life is just so complicated these days ! ;)

The old Tri-ang catenary was just so simple & well made ... Those were the days !


You don't have to be Einstein :brill: to have a bit of operating catenary !

What electrical knowledge ?

Just solder a wire to it from your resistance controller !


Making it just needs the right materials & sensible construction and installation techniques.

It aint rocket-science ... But EXPERIENCE not TALK counts for everything.

So.

Anyone who wants the top dope from the horses mouth on skyhook wiring...

...go to Herbies house !!


Herbs Thread in the Trolley Forum is THE LAST WORD on catenary construction.

Adapt & adopt your own ways as well of course.

But if Herb say use this wire, then use that wire.

If Herb tells you how to make an effective pole/mast, then make it like that.

If he says stand on one leg singing Rule Britannia with a cork in one ear, do that as well ! ;)


Dummies, knicker elastic & DelTang are for the birds baby !


Get that catenary JUICED UP !

Or just sell all your electric-locos & get a steam-engine or something.

I guess you could chop off the pantos & pretend they were diesels maybe.


LET THERE BE WIRES !


:bg:


Si.

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if Herb was really our friend, he would have posted a link: http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=2906&forum_id=53

Last edited on Thu Mar 9th, 2017 05:08 am by southpier

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Good morning Si, Well at least it is for me but not overly sure it is for you, since reading your last post. Well it is a bright and sunny day here and the temps are around 50F just a perfect day to go into the shop and cut ties for the railroad, no cares, no worries, and no discussion with myself about over head wire.Do enjoy the day I am and I have it on good authority that my friend Ryan Vigus will soon be posting some shots of my 3/8's work.That's all,Steve

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Hi Steve :wave:

EVERY day is a good day for me, of that you CAN be sure.
They normally start with a ;) and end with a :bg: and have a few :brill:s in between.
I reserve the right to attempt the impossible.
Make simple what some seek to complicate.
And model railroad on a budget, not a mortgage. ;)

- - - - - - -

We choose to go to the Moon! ... We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win ...


:moose:


Si.

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The Pacific Electric ran several diesels with trolley poles.  The poles were needed to activate the signal system.

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr1007/pe1653.jpg


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OK Steve, dead overhead wire...that's alright but please have the wheel/shoe/pantograph actually touching the wire. I wuz just a' thinkin' (bad thing to do) that it would be neat to observe the occasional spark from overhead. Actually, it seems that running traction with live overhead and grounded rail is the most "real" way that a model railroad could run. Us nuts with r/c steam are having fun but the live overhead is real!
Just another "my opinion" line of BS...just have fun and run a train today.

Woodie

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running traction with live overhead and grounded rail is the most "real" way that a model railroad could run

Easiest to wire also: no gaps, no reversing loops, no shorts at switches, no insulated wheel sets. What is not to like with it?.
Jose.

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Steve
If I can get organized I will post an article from the May 20th 1911 issue of the Mining & Scientific Press on an electric railway system which

A no overhead wire
B no Batteries
C no onboard generator
D no 3rd rail
E power via rails



L:

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Can anyone find the link here to "Sparky"? the thread with minimal overhead , and real sparks?

Remember that one Woodie?


Herb

W C Greene
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Yes I do Herbie...it seems to me that it was an Albanian electric coal hauling line. The video was on Youtube a few years back, maybe some computer savvy dude can find it.

WCG

pipopak
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Here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unhXEQQk8G8

Jose.

Herb Kephart
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Thanks, Jose.

Now there is the simplest overhead that I have ever seen Steve.

Go for it! 

Actually overhead for pantograph is very simple to erect, once you get the need for catinary out of your head. That is only on high speed lines. Pantographs eliminate the need for diddling with poles (or back-poling) to put a car into a siding. Even some lines that ran cat out on the mains, had only single wire in the yards,  Piedmont and Northern comes to mind.

Herb

Ken C
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 Steve


   Photo of article on the Automatic Transportation Company, Buffalo NY from M&SP issue I have. Years ago I Googled and found a couple of more photos.  There is a booklet on the Company, which may or may not be able to be downloaded.
 http://mail.fsplanet.com/store/The-Automatic-Transportation
May need to click on list for Buffalo NY

Attachment: IMGP0784.JPG (Downloaded 89 times)

mdrailbaron
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Good afternoon all, It has been a bit of time since I last clogged up the net with any thoughts or comments but I have been here all along.  So on the 3/8's stuff work progresses, I have been working on mostly the one end.  Now before any clamor for photos my friend Ryan tried some time ago to post shots of the railroad and was unsuccessful so I know due to my limited computer abilities I won't even bother with posting.  I can tell you that I have built the three mill buildings at Muddy Creek Forks, PA on the MA and PA RR, they have received rave reviews from my guys, could be though they like being invited back for On30 ops sessions.  I have also built a five building town and added some scenery through out this one section.  All in all I can see why some have decided to model in 3/8's, if I didn't have a 1900 square foot basement full of On30 I might consider going bigger.  It is only a thought that will never be acted upon.  As for the over head wire, my friend and historian Martin K Van Horn the 3rd, who is my go to guy, sent me a couple of articles and scale drawings not only for the pole but also how to lay it out.  As it looks I will have over head only on the center peninsula which will service the pier, saw mill, planing mill, furniture/barrel/ and box company.  I think this will be just enough for the time being, it might possibly someday expand but until I install it, it won't go anywhere.  I am thinking by winter I should be far enough along to get started.  One another note, I was looking trough old post and under Modeling Aids I saw a question about removing lettering on Bachman equipment.  I take decal solvent and flood the lettering and then rub with an ink eraser and gone.  I just did this last week and it works just fine.  I didn't have to repaint anything and it didn't scratch the surface in any noticeable way.  Well thank you all for the information, Ken I will check out the link you posted.  Wishing you all parallel rails and trains on time.
SteveModeling the other large scale only smaller 

Nortonville Phil
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Here are a few pictures of the Locomotives that Mdrailbarron Steve sent me and allowed me to post for him.


Steve Fisher 3-8n40boxcab

Steve Fisher 3-8n40 scale Critter 

Steve Fisher 3-8n40 critter

Nortonville Phil
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Here are some more pictures of Steve's 3/8n40 scale layout.  All photos are his.


Steve Fisher Street Scene 

Steve Fisher Sidings 

Steve Fisher Saw Mill 

Steve Fisher Saw Mill 2

Steve Fisher Loading Dock 2 

Steve Fisher Loading Dock 

Steve Fisher Hotel Baltimore 

Steve Fisher Garage 

Steve Fisher General Store

Steve Fisher Front Porch

Steve Fisher Box Cars


Michael M
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Those 'critters' look great!:glad:

Keep the photos coming please.

Nortonville Phil
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I have been talking to Stephen Fisher over the last week or so. Well I got interested in building something.  I found a scrap of pine lumber and ran it through a table saw and made some strip wood.  Then I knocked together a flat car underframe.  This is what I have so far.  I built this to 9mm scale to the foot.  So it represents 42 inch gauge on O guage track.  The couplers I am using are some of those old Walthers couplers that were made to be compatible with O guage 3 rail lionel type couplers.  These are actually smaller than Lionel and look better in my opinion. They are dummy couplers though so not good for switching.  The RR I am interested in used full size couplers on it's equipment.  That would be Japan and Taiwan. Well here are a couple of pictures.
DSCN3442 by Homewood Wheelman, on Flickr

DSCN3441 by Homewood Wheelman, on Flickr

W C Greene
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Ahhh Phil...welcome to the dark side...

Outlaw Troublemaker

Paul W
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Hi Phil

Aaaaah, 9mm:foot....now you're talking my language!  I have modeled NZ's railways in this scale for maybe ten years - not a lot to show for it, but I have picked up the pace recently, ever since a health scare lit a fire under my rear.

If you want to see some classic American railroading on 42" gauge, look up the Wellington & Manawatu railway, this was a private company that imported a lot of equipment from the USA; Baldwin locomotives, and passenger cars from Jackson & Sharp for example.  I am using it for inspiration, along with the D&RGW and EBT, for my own freelance railway.

Regards
Paul Woods

Whangarei, NZ

Kurt Ubl
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:glad:Paul W wrote: Hi Phil

Aaaaah, 9mm:foot....now you're talking my language!  I have modeled NZ's railways in this scale for maybe ten years - not a lot to show for it, but I have picked up the pace recently, ever since a health scare lit a fire under my rear.

If you want to see some classic American railroading on 42" gauge, look up the Wellington & Manawatu railway, this was a private company that imported a lot of equipment from the USA; Baldwin locomotives, and passenger cars from Jackson & Sharp for example.  I am using it for inspiration, along with the D&RGW and EBT, for my own freelance railway.

Regards
Paul Woods

Whangarei, NZ
This is what I have in mind with my Railroad.
Kurt

Paul W
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Hi Phil

What are you planning to use for trucks?

Regards
Paul

Whangarei, NZ

Last edited on Fri Dec 29th, 2017 03:02 pm by Paul W


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