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Si.
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Just Posted some discussion & ideas for constructing miniature chain-drives :-


HERE


Grandt-Line & similar Delrin(TM) chain-drive components & specs.





Also a 'faux chain-drive' made from machined-brass pulleys & a silicone O-ring.

Suitable for On30 1:35n2 & Gn15.






:!:


Si.



Si.
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Bootlegbar
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I got mine from Micro Mark.  I think its the same as Grandt Line, Delrn.

 







Poncho is 1/35.  The truck is 1/34. Code 100 rail for reference. The side view is not so bad. I was thinking about making a chain guard to hide how wide it is.


 

Stephen

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A couple more pictures because we all like pictures.

Stephen

pipopak
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The Oldsmobile Toronado had a 2" wide chain in the transmission, so a 3" or even 4" wide for a truck doesn't seem to be out of scale to me.
Jose.

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Here's a site with a closeup of a 1919 Mack AC Stake Truck Chain

Last edited on Wed Apr 5th, 2017 12:19 pm by Helmut

Herb Kephart
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pipopak wrote: The Oldsmobile Toronado had a 2" wide chain in the transmission, so a 3" or even 4" wide for a truck doesn't seem to be out of scale to me.
Jose.

Totally different type of chain, Jose. Most folks wouldn't even recognize it as chain at all.

Grease Monkey Herb

Herb Kephart
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Helmut wrote: Here's a site with a closeup of a 1919 Mack AC Stake Truck Chain

AC Macks used #120 chain, 1 1/4" pitch. Pitch is the distance between the pins, just for reference.


Herb

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Here is a car one of my sons has



a 1917 America-La France fire engine, converted to a "speedster" alla Stutz Bearcat

1" pitch chain




Herb

Attachment: ALF5.jpg (Downloaded 54 times)

Herb Kephart
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And here is the one that they are going to carry me off to the municipal dump in--(from 'net)


Herb

Attachment: old chain drive hearse.bmp (Downloaded 52 times)

Helmut
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Herb Kephart wrote:
AC Macks used #120 chain, 1 1/4" pitch. Pitch is the distance between the pins, just for reference.



It scales out to 0.9mm pitch in 1:35
And that's why all available functional chains are much too coarse for anything smaller than 1:16 scale IMHO. You could try fusee chains, they sell for mere 35 bucks per foot.

Herb Kephart
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For the nit -pickers. the largest standard roller chain--

ANSI # 240, ISO #48A1,   width-3.760", pitch - 3", roller diameter 1.75". Average strength 141,476  Lbs.   Weight 15.567 Lbs/Ft

This chain is used between the axles of the EBT diesel. Two 300 HP (on a good day) GM diesels, motor only on one axle. Think I took a pix, but it is somewhere on film.

This chain is also made (I think on special order) in double width--

ANSI#240-2, ISO#48A-2,  Width 7.220", all other dimensions the same . Average strength  285,292 pounds.  Weight 30.330 Lbs/Ft

Wen the chain is greasy (and it comes that way, only not as dirty as used) that 15½ Lbs/Ft is more than one man can manage. Sounds like a little, lifts like ten time that.

I'm going to go out on a limb, and say that 240, even the single row,was never used in the woods. That single row chain looks like a lot larger than any photos of critters than I have seen.

In the real world
I have had  to handle a lot of industrial chain., and that 240 between the axles of the EBT loco evoked a OH GAWD from me. Something smaller would be more likely.

OK, you in the back row wake up. School is over.

Herb.


Si.
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Hi Stephen, guys :wave:


Thanks for the photos Stephen.

In some of the photos, the chain seems to be very large.

But this is due to the wide-angle camera lens & the fact that it is nearer to the viewer than the figure.

Looking at Stephens 1st photo, where the chain at the figures feet is on it's side...

...it is easy to see, that in fact, it is in reality really quite slender.


Used on a 1:35 model, where partly under bodywork, & only the thin side is mostly seen...

...the chain looks very acceptable. :)


Bearing in mind that eg. 'logging lash-ups' weren't exactly 'factory economy jobs'...

...larger than 'average' chain could easily have been used on such vehicles.

I've seen this chain used in 1:24 scale & it looks very nice 'in context' with the whole model.


In experimenting on the bench, with some of my standard 1:35n2 wheelsets & a vehicle body...

...It certainly looks pretty good to me.

Wide angle camera lenses, 'conceptual' measurement & theory aside...

...this is possibly a nice option for a 'backwoods' buggy in 1:35n2


Although I did look at Fusee chain as my first option...

...since it isn't designed for sprockets really, it is not a great option I don't think.

I did actually find another miniature chain today as well.

It is a very small 'true' metal roller-chain, made of stainless-steel...

...price wise, it is TEN TIMES more £$ than the Delrin(TM) & a few Thou" larger.


The conclusion I've come to...

...is that using the miniature ladder-chain for a 1:35 model would probably look OK.

Certainly there is no operational problem, it works like a dream !


:bg:


Si.

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Fusee chain.





:shocked:


Si.

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Fusee chain was my first port of call for the Stunted Goose but when I saw the prices on eBay I backed off from that one!

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Irony on:
"It's a pity we don't have those orphanages any more, the source of cheap labour to make them"
Irony off.
Fusee chains are a classic example of items made by child labour, the children being sharp-eyed enough to make such delicate structures.

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and now

Last edited on Fri Apr 21st, 2017 09:21 am by southpier

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while rebuilding a mazeriti v 6 and a benz diesel we compaired timing chains they looked identical so we got a couple of the diesel chans and put them in the v6 cheaper than the factory chains and lasted longer

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Fusee chain is new term to me, so went and looked it up.

"The origin of the fusee is not known. Many sources erroneously credit clockmaker Jacob Zech of Prague with inventing it around 1525,[2][3][4] but it actually appeared with the first spring driven clocks in the 15th century.[1][5] The idea probably did not originate with clockmakers, since the earliest known example is in a crossbow windlass shown in a 1405 military manuscript.[1] Drawings from the 15th century by Filippo Brunelleschi[6] and Leonardo da Vinci[7] show fusees. The earliest existing clock with a fusee, also the earliest spring-powered clock, is the Burgunderuhr (Burgundy clock), a chamber clock whose iconography suggests that it was made for Phillipe the Good, Duke of Burgundy about 1430, now in the Germanisches Nationalmuseum[1][5] The earliest definitely dated fusee clock was made by Zech in 1525. The word fusee comes from the French fusée and late Latin fusata, 'spindle full of thread'."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusee_(horology)

pipopak
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maybe we should start raiding pawn shops for old non-working watches...

Jose.

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it's been done

Last edited on Fri Apr 21st, 2017 09:20 am by southpier

W C Greene
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Now, those are some "FAR OUT" gears & chains! If I build another whatzit, I will get me some.

Woodie

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The main trouble with the fusee chain is it's so darned expensive for the amount you get.

Si.
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Hi Guys :wave:


I have got some more info on the new stainless-steel roller-chain I found to Post...

...on other 'puter.

The Delrin(TM) chain is still the favorite though IMO.


I thought I may as well Post this pic. of the Tamiya 1:12 motorcycle chain I found as well.

It is probably useless for trains...

...cos like the fusee chain, I don't believe suitable 'train size' sprockets are available for it.

I don't think it can easily be split/joined either.

I guess it MIGHT actually function, but I don't know that either.

Possibly not, since it is obviously an 'aftermarket dressup' for the Tamiya 'static' bikes.

Probably mainly intended to look good.


Damn expensive as well !

Makes fusee chain look like costume jewelry !! :shocked:






I did actually make a Tamiya 1:12 touring bike years ago.

Although 1:12 scale, the model isn't really THAT big.

The driver figure being only 6" tall.

In remembering that bike model, which I no longer have...

...the chain in the above photo ^^ DOES look incredibly small & the bike incredibly detailed.

It looks like the wheels have REAL spokes ! :shocked:

Mmm... my tourer of 30 years ago never had that.


:!:


Si.


Back on the chain-gang with more chain chatter   l  a  t  e  r  .  .  .

Si.
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Harking back to page 1 and the faux chain drive (pulleys and belts) here is my WhisperJet drive:

Last edited on Thu Apr 20th, 2017 09:25 pm by bobquincy

pipopak
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Bob:
found your drive quite interesting. Could you post top and bottom view pics?. TIA.
Jose.

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Sure.  It is for a monorail but could probably be adapted to a two rail system.  Like I recently told a potential customer who asked about hill climbing, "WhisperJet is mainly for speed (and quiet), not for pulling power".  The overall reduction ratio is about 13:1.  The pulleys are 3D printed except for the aluminum motor pulley (Parma slot car part).





boB

 pipopak wrote: Bob:
found your drive quite interesting. Could you post top and bottom view pics?. TIA.
Jose.

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Thanks!. Now I am having ideas...
Jose.

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ServoCity also sells the delrin chain and sprockets. I used some for a work project and found the chain links have to be carefully inspected, some have burrs or molding flash that keeps them from operating smoothly.

One item of interest is their servo sprockets, could be used for a nice slow speed drive.

Last edited on Fri Apr 21st, 2017 01:52 pm by bobquincy

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Hi all, 
Be very very afraid....Jose is having ideas 

FYI - A size comparison the larger-sized Tamiya ladder chain in their Educational range http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/70142chain_sprocket/index.htm (as used for the under-track haulage on the Corrimal Incline) and the Servo-Limk chain (as used for the drag chain elevating conveyor on Corrimal). See http://servolink.com/sprocks.htm for information on this smaller chain.

The elevating conveyor has yet to make an appearance here on the Corrimal thread., but it can be seen in test run mode at https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=ciV-aSDPkfM

and the Tamiya ladder chain with 10 mm diameter magnets attached to a link
Just another 2 chain drive options that are known to work,

Si.
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Hi John :wave:


Thanks for the pix. :bg:


I'm guessing that the large Tamiya chain is made of Delrin(TM).


How did you fix the magnets to it ?


I haven't tried gluing Delrin(TM) ...


... except maybe some small Grandt-Line parts, years ago.


Got any advice ?


:bg:


Si.


Bob ... The monorails look AWESOME !


Gonna have to ask you a couple of questions on your drive ...


... l a t e r

oztrainz
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Hi all
The smaller Servo-Link chain is acetyl and the larger Tamiya chain is Delrin or similar.
Both can be glued but there as some provisos...
So far the best results have been obtained with 2 part superglues. These have a primer and a the glue - BUT...

The bond is brittle and any sharp sideways impact will shear the bond. In a straight pull situation the bond appears to be OK. 
The results obtained with solvent type glues for styrene were disappointing. and the 2 contact adhesives we tried were unsuccessful. 

BTW - if you try to glue anything to chains like these, ensure that you de-point your sprockets so that you don't push off the bit that you have glued to the chain.  We learned this one the hard way. 

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Back to belt drive:

I have sold about 12 belt drive chassis and complete conversions in the past year, all of these are 2 stage reduction. They run at a high speed (about 1 foot per second) and while low speed operation is ok it is probably not good enough for a train. I originally looked at 3 stage reduction but shelved it due to complexity.

Well, now after a year of designs it does not look that difficult so I un-shelved it and am about to order 3D prints to make it work. I know there is a long way from drawings to a working train so this is probably not the final version but it looks good.

Final drive is dual belts for improved power capacity. My typical motor is a RC car motor so that would be replaced with something milder.

Last edited on Fri Jun 30th, 2017 03:33 pm by bobquincy


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