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35n2 layout...the beginning
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 Posted: Fri Mar 3rd, 2017 03:40 pm
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Michael M
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KitbashOn30,

Thanks for the information.  I know 9" radius is kinda pushing the limits, but as long as the locomotive can squeak around a 9" curve then I'm good to go.  I'm building my equipment (35n2) to take the tightest possible curves so that I know if I lay out wider curves I won't have a problem.

Like those boxcars. On30?



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Michael
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Nye, Inyo & Esmeralda Railroad
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 Posted: Mon Mar 13th, 2017 06:51 am
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Michael M
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Any suggestions for track centers when modeling two foot gauge (HO track) in 1/35 scale?  I'm thinking about 4" track centers.  Am I close?



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 Posted: Mon Mar 13th, 2017 04:28 pm
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Michael M
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I believe that most two foot gauge equipment was about 6' to 6'6" wide.  6' in 1/35 scale comes to 2".  So, I'm thinking that 4" track centers would be okay.  But, I'd like to hear from those that have built 35n2 layouts to see what their recommendations are.  I know we can fudge some since mast build their own rolling stock, but it would be nice to have some general guidelines.



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Michael
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 Posted: Mon Mar 13th, 2017 05:34 pm
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Kitbash0n30
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I can add one thing to remember even though I build in On30, Gn15, G, HO - remember to increase track centers on curves to allow clearance for car middle overhanging inside of curve track and car ends overhanging outside of curve track.
And that clearance dimension gets larger as curves get tighter.

I'll say that reminder for y'all here even though at our model train club I recently let the N scale guys learn by doing as they laid track on a new layout.

Last edited on Mon Mar 13th, 2017 05:38 pm by Kitbash0n30



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 Posted: Mon Mar 13th, 2017 08:52 pm
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oztrainz
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Hi Michael,

There is a rough "rule of thumb" that the width of rolling stock should not be more than 3 times gauge for stability reasons, but it can be broken (if not shattered) when you get the engineering right. have a look at http://www.freerails.com/view_post.php?post_id=85361 and the rest of this thread. 

Forrest's point about overhangs on curves is worth considering, but with the following modifications:
  •  the overhang in the middle on a curve becomes worse rapidly as the wagon length (bogie centre distance for bogie wagons) increases
  • the outside overhang at the end of the wagon gets worse rapidly the further in the bogie centres (for bogie wagons) or axles (for 4-wheel wagons) are from the end of the wagon
  • if your coupling is over/near the outside rail on a curve, you will have derailment issues because of the end overhang will tend to push the wagon sideways when it is moving. The tendency to derail is usually worse when the wagon is being pushed than when being towed.  
Now if you follow that "3x rule" and, providing you don't go for excessively long wagons, (remember most 2' gauge rolling stock apart from some of the Maine stuff is usually well under 30' long), you should be able to get away with 3 to 3 1/2" track spacing on the curves. 
at 3' to 3.5" track centres, it might not be a real good idea to be standing between the tracks on a bend as trains pass each other :w: but the wagons should miss :2t:. At 4" track centres,  not a problem  :2t::2t::bg: 



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 Posted: Mon Mar 13th, 2017 09:12 pm
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Michael M
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I think the space between two passing trains was referred to as 'dead man's zone' or 'suicide zone'.  I'd measure my equipment but right now all I have is one 35n2 ore car completed.  I plan on keeping the equipment short, say on the order of 16' to 18' length maximum.  So it sounds like 4" track center are good to plan with.  I do have a small layout that I am planning to build, but not before I get some more equipment built.  A locomotive would be handy.



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 Posted: Mon Mar 13th, 2017 10:46 pm
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Si.
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Hi Michael :wave:



When I started out making 1:35n2 stuff, I began with 2 locos, a Shay & Porter.

The very first thing I scratchbuilt, was the LONGEST and WIDEST car which I thought would be running on the railroad.

It was a 'Heavy Duty Flatcar' & is 6' x 17.5' over the end-beams.

I now have a Mogul to convert as well, this is slightly wider than the Shay & Porter, at 5'6" in 1:35n2.



I am following the 'rule of thumb' John mentioned, that 3x the gauge is the maximum width.

In general my carbuild sizes are scaled from Gilpin Tram blueprints.

In fact the 2' gauge Gilpin Trams widest car, the caboose, was 6' wide & 14' long

A Gilpin Tram ore-car is about 4' x 14', a very few of their cars are longer, up to around 20', but not many, these longer cars are also much narrower than the caboose, about 4'ish I seem to recall.



Recently I have been working towards some kind of trackplan.

I have found it quite difficult to draw this AND understand fully the size of buildings etc.

I decided in the end, to experiment using real track pieces.

I adopted the standard track geometry pioneered in the U.K. by Tri-ang Railways(TM) back in the swingin' '60s.

This exact same geometry is used to this very day by many other manufactures as well, including Peco, Bachmann & Hornby.

Basically the track has 4 different 22.5 deg. radius sizes.

All of these plus the switches & crossovers are all designed to give a final track to track centre spacing of 67mm.



This geometry is proving useful in figuring out a good trackplan.

I now have numerous Hornby track pieces to experiment with in 1:1

This is the most popular track in the U.K. a bit like Atlas in the U.S. and there is a busy and affordable market buying & selling it on eBay.

67mm is quite narrow for a 'real' track spacing & possibly will not actually clear on double 67mm spaced curves.

But I don't plan on having too many 'double track curves'.

The 'straight' clearance is OK however, a bit TIGHT though.

The Hornby switches & sections will likely only be used for constructing staging yard/s in the end anyhow, which will be straight and the tracks as close together as possible.



In the end, having some flextrack & perhaps some setrack pieces to experiment with, I think is a good move.

Also having a footprint for your biggest car could be good, even if it is only for now a cardboard rectangle, cardboard rectangles are actually pretty useful !



:moose:


Si.



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 Posted: Mon Mar 13th, 2017 10:57 pm
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W C Greene
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Is the passing siding on a curve? On a straight? Are the switches "normal" (#4, etc) or tramway types. How wide/long are your cars/locos? And how many cars/locos are you wanting to be able to comfortably pass on a siding? All this makes differences in the way the tracks are laid out. I might suggest getting a loco and cars going before laying out track. Years ago, I built a siding which was OK with a 35n2 Porter (On30 convert) and some Bachmann On30 V tippers and wooden dump cars. HOWEVER when I got a Shay and built longer/wider cars...it all went to s%^t. I just measured the distance on the smelter siding and it was 3" center to center. A lot but nice. You might get away with 2", all I know is to try it.
Hope this works for you.

Woodie



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 Posted: Tue Mar 14th, 2017 04:54 am
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Michael M
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The passing siding will be on straight track so I really don't need to worry about overhang too much.  Engines and cars will be short; at least that's the plan.  I'm looking at just doing a simple oval with a few switches coming off for future expansion.  The layout will be small and portable so curves will be on the tight side.  I'll just have to remind the crew and any passengers to "keep your arms inside at all times."  But, I think with 4" track centers I should be okay (famous last words).

1/35 scale is a new world for me and not use to everything being quite so large.  Right now I have one scratch built cantina, 3 figures, 2 vehicles, a motorcycle, some assorted HO track and a few switches, and one ore car.  I do have a HO Plymouth that I'm turning into some kind of funky home-built job with a cab just big enough to keep the engineer out of the weather.  Something along these lines: http://38.media.tumblr.com/41e629cc4480e7778f3384a2d79bdea6/tumblr_naillh3RfG1qgvvn1o1_1280.jpg


I envision my little railroad along the lines of the Carson & Colorado, Death Valley Railroad along with the two-foot 'Baby Gauge', or Tonopah & Tidewater.  Traversing desert and sagebrush...just two streaks of rust in the sand.  Doing scenery should be extremely easy...cover everything with sand and plop down a few clumps of brush and I'm done.

Even found a source for backdrops...aquarium backdrops.

Here's one: https://www.petsmart.com/reptile/supplies/habitats-and-decor/habitat-decor/all-living-things-desert-terrarium-cling-reptile-background-5161596.html?
16" x 36" for $11.99.  Not a bad deal.



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Michael
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 Posted: Tue Mar 14th, 2017 09:19 pm
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oztrainz
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Hi Michael,If you are planning burying everything in sand, you can use the cheaper code 100 track.

Try working out how big the rail is from more than 12" away when you do something like this -:bg:P1230890a by oztrainz, on Flickr


On another forum, good results have been had using tile grout as fine ballast/sand. This can be had in a range of colours and in larger sized quantities from hardware]tiling supply stores than "usual" model train ballast options. The usual wet water/PVA glue mix will make sure nothing moves. after glue is applied. Before the glue sets, make sure you have your flangeways and rail head clear of wet grout. Once the glue sets it will take a hammer and a small chisel to clear out the flangeways. 



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John Garaty
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