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Dr. StrangeLiPo ... or How I Learned To Stop Worrying & Love The Battery !
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 Posted: Mon Apr 24th, 2017 03:40 am
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Si.
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" I DIDN'T spend mega bucks for either locos or r/c equipment "

" The stuff I bought has been working now for ALMOST 20 years! "

" Yes, the boards are that old and the Li Po batteries are just about that old "


Howdy Woodie :cb:


I have to say, I wouldn't even be trying this project, without your inspiration. :bow:


I'm not 'pennyless', so I could EASILY go out & buy all the usual hi-cost R.C. gear, no problem.

However, as a kid with ZERO $$$, I always took on the challenge, to do what others paid 10x the price for, as a necessity !


Having just celebrated my 50th birthday last week ...

... I now actually ENJOY that challenge, and am always rewarded, when I can 'give the bird' to the jet-set !

I've consistently done this whilst designing & building electronics in vacuum-tubes, scientific-projects & more recently pro-audio.


" WORKS FOR ME ! "  -  Hannibal Smith, The A-Team.


- - - - - - -


" Low cost engines and RC gear always puts a smile on my face."


Hi Bob :wave:


It's nice to have a big smile about these things ! :bg:


Although the Model-Power Plymouth is indeed 'low cost' ...

... the R.C. system I'm putting together is intended to be HIGH QUALITY at 'low cost'.

I believe it would be just as at home in a $1000 dollar loco, as in the Model-Power Plymouth.

I'm just 'breaking the mould' & putting it all together for about £15 quid.


That includes ...

The receiver & electronic speed control.

The power regulator.

The battery.

The battery charger.

&

The transmitter.


So far, I'm on budget as well ... £15 quid ! ... for the ENTIRE high-quality system !! :thumb:

That's inc. delivery P&P by the way. :shocked:


- - - - - - -


:moose:


Si.




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 Posted: Mon Apr 24th, 2017 08:46 am
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Helmut
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Hi all,
cheap RC of course puts a smile in your face - as long as you don't operate it together with other people being on the same trip or close to your WLAN router in case of the  newfangled 2.4 GHz systems.
I  just returned home from a module convention ( same as FREEMO ) where the dispatching and scheduling of train movements was handled via WLAN. Everything DCC, and a guy had his handheld wireless throttles ready for operation, only to be disappointed by their complete failure. The wireless link indication signalled everything OK, but the locos wouldn't move...because the WLAN interfered with his system and the receiver got garbage information. The reason was that his wireless was not implemented as a full 2.4 GHz FHSS, saving maybe 1€ a piece in bulk buying. Just as a cross-check, I placed my 2.4 GHz DSM-RC locos next to his receiver and they operated flawlessly, as they did over the whole quite extensive arrangement with a lot of WLAN APs and clients.
Old story - it is OK to buy cheap as long as you know exactly what you get. Quality has its price and is worth the money. And sometimes you even may pay dear for crap.



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 Posted: Mon Apr 24th, 2017 10:47 am
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davecttr
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style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"Good advice Helmut style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"
style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"You tend to get what you pay for. Properly implemented 2.4Ghz band systems are very resistant to interference but even the best may not work!. style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"
style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"Don't panic. style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"
style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"This was mentioned on a forum somewhere, I can't remember where. The poster reckoned radio control was no good for exhibition layouts because of interference and wired DCC was the only solution. style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"
style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"I did some online reading and surprise, Your 2.4Ghz system might indeed not work. However this would be most likely because the 2.4Ghz band in the local area was totally saturated by hundreds of mobile phones, tablets etc all trying to use the exhibition halls wireless routers at the same time. This would probably only apply to the largest shows at busy times. All those phone users would be frustrated as well. style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"
style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"Solutions? My home wireless router has both 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz and my tablet connects to the 5Ghz. Those venues need to update their hardware. style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"
style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"Questions - would having a more powerful Tx help? Would using DSMX help? style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"
style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"Advice - i had some trouble programming my Deltang Rx's with the Prog4. My desk lamp had a daylight bulb, I switched it off and the problems went away.
edit - what the heck happened?

Last edited on Mon Apr 24th, 2017 10:50 am by davecttr



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 Posted: Mon Apr 24th, 2017 12:00 pm
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Si.
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Looks like Helmut could be right.


INTERFERENCE !


I'll check it out.

Perhaps Dave was using 'wireless' ?


:brill:


Si.



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' Mysterious Moose Mountain ' - 1:35n2 - pt.II
http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=7318&forum_id=17&page=1

' M:R:W Motor Speedway !!! ' - 1:32 Slotcar Racing Layout
http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=59295&st=0&a
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 Posted: Mon Apr 24th, 2017 02:28 pm
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W C Greene
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Well, it appears that the "ancient" 27 MHZ ANALOG systems are indeed superior...wink, wink..but maybe so.

WCG



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 Posted: Mon Apr 24th, 2017 02:39 pm
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Bob R
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I am no expert but they must have a much greater saturation of 2.4 gh in the UK and Europe.  I have never experienced an interferrance problem at any shows or events here in the US.  Seems almost every visitor is holding a cell phone, taking picture with their phone etc.  



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 Posted: Mon Apr 24th, 2017 02:48 pm
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Cor V
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Bob R wrote: I am no expert but they must have a much greater saturation of 2.4 gh in the UK and Europe.  I have never experienced an interferrance problem at any shows or events here in the US.  Seems almost every visitor is holding a cell phone, taking picture with their phone etc.  yep, if i am correct, a celphone uses other frequensys
Cor



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 Posted: Mon Apr 24th, 2017 02:49 pm
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Cor V
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Bob R wrote: I am no expert but they must have a much greater saturation of 2.4 gh in the UK and Europe.  I have never experienced an interferrance problem at any shows or events here in the US.  Seems almost every visitor is holding a cell phone, taking picture with their phone etc.  
seen it on a model show that severall people had problems with there RC equipment on the 2.4ghzevery techniek has his limits, maybe bigger , but there are limits
Cor



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 Posted: Mon Apr 24th, 2017 04:01 pm
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Helmut
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@woodie
The ancient 27MHz are definitely not superior.
First, there ( in Europe ) you have only 25 channels - that is you can run only 25 independent locos at once. For the loner no problem - but in a group? You have to negotiate which channel is run by whom, and the problems arise when your system cannot change channels.
Second, there is a well-known phenomenon called the 'rusty-bolt-effect', that is, any metal part in the line of transmission or in the vicinity, that is not grounded, can act as a secondary source and wipe the signal out. Old devil interference!
You'll be a bit better off in 40,68 MHz where you have some 40+ channels ( albeit not all legal in certain countries )
Third, there is always the dimensional problem. Only if you have the space, a standard RC receiver plus the motor controller will fit in.

@all
2.4 GHz systems can have problems when there are devices around using  Bluetooth.
Cell phones connect to WLAN if you want to go into the internet - which could be a problem when you're in the vicinity of a hotspot.
Normal cellphone frequencies are far off and do no harm.
But all this will only give you trouble when you are not using the full 80 possible channels ( which are available everywhere, AFAIK no limitations )  and some sort of spread-spectrum transmission method. You have to distribute your signal over the whole range in order to get through under all circumstances. You have to determine which channel is open and continously scan for open ones in case your transmission gets blocked.
Such a method is only feasible when using high frequencies and cannot be applied to classical RC frequencies. Sadly enough, there are many primitive single-channel systems sold misleading their customers by boasting '2.4GHz technology' - especially in the China-made RC-toy field.



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 Posted: Mon Apr 24th, 2017 08:13 pm
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Si.
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In Great Britain, back in the late '70s & early '80s ...
... the 27MHz band generally, was totally RAMMED FULL of garbage, junk & ...



... INTERFERENCE !



The vast majority of which, was NOT caused by people using R.C. equipment ...
... but mostly by illegally operated 27MHz AM C.B. radios !!


Following the release of Sam Peckinpahs worst, but nevertheless CULT movie 'Convoy' ...
... C.B. radios imported from the States, were in great demand !

Many of these were supposedly brought back from the U.S. by 'enthusiasts' ...
... who probably just got back from a 'Freddie Laker' fly-drive holiday 'across the pond'.


The first thing most of these enthusiasts did when they got their new A.M. 'Midland' or 'Motorola' out of their suitcase ...
... was to whack up a whopping great big 18-foot antenna.
And if they possibly could, hook up a 100 Watt, or sometimes even BIGGER, linear-amplifier, or 'BURNER' as they used to call 'em ...
... and it was ...



... " Breaker, Breaker, this is The Duck ! ... do you copy Outer Mongolia ? !! "



Anyway ...
... 30 odd years later ... I had a nose around on the 27MHz band a short while back.

Using a pretty nice ICOM rapid-radio-scanner.
I checked out the entire 27MHz frequency.
Including AM, FM and Sidebands, over the course of a whole day.


Guess what I found on 27MHz these days ?





ABSOLUTELY





NOTHING !





:moose:





Si.





???









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' Mysterious Moose Mountain ' - 1:35n2 - pt.II
http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=7318&forum_id=17&page=1

' M:R:W Motor Speedway !!! ' - 1:32 Slotcar Racing Layout
http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=59295&st=0&a
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