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Si.
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There's this Texan guy Woodie  :cb:  who you might know.

He's been trying to warp my copper-wired D.C. brain for some years now !



His mantra has been spinning around in my head, like rotors on a quadcopter !! :Crazy:

R.C. ... R.C. ... R.C. ... R.C. ...



The $1000 dollar loco I wanted was out of the question, after the rent cheque went out ! :f:

So I had to settle for a $20 buck Model-Power Plymouth instead !!



I stuck my neck out the other day, and said I thought it could be R.C.ed for £15 quid.

Is it possible to put together a HIGH QUALITY system, for the same price as 3-pints of beer ? L:



Could be . . .



Here's the story . . .



:brill:



Si.


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W C Greene
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I keep telling you, I DIDN'T spend mega bucks for either locos or r/c equipment. The stuff I bought has been working now for ALMOST 20 years! Yes, the boards are that old and the Li Po batteries are just about that old. The problems with these batteries going nuclear is because car racers and copter/aircraft modelers may have several models but normally have ONE SET OF BATTERIES and when they start running out of punch, they want to recharge IN A HURRY and that's when the batteries smoke! My old batteries get what amounts to a trickle charge. I have more than one lokie so if the road loco needs water & coal, I have another one all topped up to use. Besides, when I need a charge, I am usually tired of switching for several hours and need a charge myself.

Woodie

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Ditto what Woodrow says.  Low cost engines and RC gear always puts a smile on my face.The battery issue is always debated.  
On the DeadRail site there is a current argument going on about use of RC batteries versus "high quality" lipos.   Woodie is correct about our use with low current rate charging etc. 
I also race RC cars and fly RC planes.  Car racers, in order to get the max performance, charge at very high amp rates (frequently in excess of 20 amps). The newer race chargers have the ability to over charge - ie charge to more than 4.2 volts per cell.  They do not care about battery safety or battery life.  Only going fast.
I have never had a battery failure with a small RC train lipo and I buy the cheaper RC cells. Use a decent charger and reasonable precautions and you will wonder what the debates are all about.
Bob

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What scale are we talking here? What voltage motors?

I'm in O-scale and the motors are typically 12-15 vdc can types. I generally use 9.6 NiMh or 11.1 LiPo packs in my tenders. The couple of engines I have that use 15vdc motors run fine at slow speed, but they're not very fast at the top end. I think I timed my 14lb. Williams brass 4-8-4 N&W Class J at just under 50mph wide open, my Lionel die cast 4-8-2 is about the same.

I could probably get away with 1000Mah packs as the 2000 and 2200 run for 2.5 hours or so and take about the same time to recharge. A 1000Mah pack would most likely run 1+ hours and take the same to recharge. Hey, just bring it in for "re-fueling" and put another engine to work!!!

W C Greene
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I don't have the experience with large O scale or larger scale locos so I can't give any useful info. My locos are Bachmann On30 jobs with some added "parts". The Shays run with 1100 (?) MAH 2 cells, the little Porters have 800 (?) MAH 2 cells. I believe the lone tender loco, a 4-4-0 has an 1100 (?) in it also. I don't fancy taking the locos apart to look at the exact sizes, they have been installed a long time and I have painted them flat black anyway!
Oh hell, I do things wrong anyway!

Woodie

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Bob D
You mentioned 2-2 1/2 hour run time and an equal amount of time to charge.
Almost all batteries are designed to safely take a 1C charge which means a 1000 mah is charged at 1 amp, a 2000 mah at 2 amps etc.  At a 1C rate a battery should charge in 1 hour.
Many batteries are in fact designed to handle a greater rate of charge.  
Also, if you are getting 2 1/2 hours on a 2000 or 2200 mah pack your engine is drawing less than 1 amp.  Not bad for the large O scale you describe.

Last edited on Fri Apr 21st, 2017 07:28 pm by Bob R

Si.
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Hi Guys :wave:


I was going to start off with something completely different ...

... but just so the Thread isn't totally derailed into yet another tedious debate about batteries ...

... here's the principle battery philosophy which I adopted for my project.



BUY THE CHEAPEST DAMN BATTERY YOU CAN ! ... PERIOD !!



So I did !


I got on eBay.

Typed in the simple search term 'LiPo Battery'

Followed by 'Worldwide Listings'

Followed by 'Cheapest First'

& about 2 minutes later, had bought the battery for the project !





The battery I bought, as far as I can tell, is the cheapest LiPo battery available on Planet Earth !

It is a 380mAh bog-standard 3.7 Volt LiPo battery.

The physical size is quoted as 40x20x7mm.

It cost me £1.36p inc. P&P !


End of story on batteries !!


At the moment, that's the subject of batteries DONE & DUSTED for my project.


:P


Si.


Am I worried about it blowing-up, melting-down, catching-fire or giving me nervous-twitches ?

NO I AM NOT !

It's just an ordinary everyday battery, just like TRILLIONS of others !!

:cool:

I did make a mental note of Herbs  :old dude: very sound advice on batteries though ...

... which was ... " Don't stab it with an Exacto-knife, as the goo pours out all over the workbench ! "

Thanks Herb !

I'm gonna be REAL CAREFUL to avoid that !! ;)


Bob D
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Bob R wrote: Bob D
You mentioned 2-2 1/2 hour run time and an equal amount of time to charge.
Almost all batteries are designed to safely take a 1C charge which means a 1000 mah is charged at 1 amp, a 2000 mah at 2 amps etc.  At a 1C rate a battery should charge in 1 hour.
Many batteries are in fact designed to handle a greater rate of charge.  
Also, if you are getting 2 1/2 hours on a 2000 or 2200 mah pack your engine is drawing less than 1 amp.  Not bad for the large O scale you describe.

BobR,
I have both chargers set at 1C rate, I guess that's why it's taking that length of time.  I think the NiMh charger can be set to 2C, need to look at the LiPo charger.
If I could remember to do it I would keep time of how long I run each engine and when they get close to the 2-2-1/2 hour mark bring them in for re-fueling before they stop dead in their tracks and finish the session with another engine.
I'm really surprised that I get over 2 hours run time on a charge, all the gurus said it wasn't possible.  Maybe cause I don't use smoke in any of my engines.  Or sound, although I don't think a sound card uses a lot of current.  I did wire in a 2" speaker and sound module into my Williams E7 that has a BlueRail board and have seen zero affects on battery drain.

Last edited on Fri Apr 21st, 2017 11:02 pm by Bob D

Bob D
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I just read that a 9.6v 2000Mah NiMh battery will hold up thru 1000 cycles.
If so, I take it I could run my engines 2+ hours every day for almost 3 years before having to replace the battery.
I started BPRC 2 years ago, at the rate I'm running my trains I may not have to buy a new battery ever!!!
I have 12 engines with batteries in them and another 6 I can convert.  At approximately $16 each that's $192 already spent and another $96 if I convert the other 6 engines, for a total of say $300.
That's not a bad deal when compared to a large AC or DC transformer or command control system needed to wire and run a layout.
I'm sticking with BPRC :glad:

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" I DIDN'T spend mega bucks for either locos or r/c equipment "

" The stuff I bought has been working now for ALMOST 20 years! "

" Yes, the boards are that old and the Li Po batteries are just about that old "


Howdy Woodie :cb:


I have to say, I wouldn't even be trying this project, without your inspiration. :bow:


I'm not 'pennyless', so I could EASILY go out & buy all the usual hi-cost R.C. gear, no problem.

However, as a kid with ZERO $$$, I always took on the challenge, to do what others paid 10x the price for, as a necessity !


Having just celebrated my 50th birthday last week ...

... I now actually ENJOY that challenge, and am always rewarded, when I can 'give the bird' to the jet-set !

I've consistently done this whilst designing & building electronics in vacuum-tubes, scientific-projects & more recently pro-audio.


" WORKS FOR ME ! "  -  Hannibal Smith, The A-Team.


- - - - - - -


" Low cost engines and RC gear always puts a smile on my face."


Hi Bob :wave:


It's nice to have a big smile about these things ! :bg:


Although the Model-Power Plymouth is indeed 'low cost' ...

... the R.C. system I'm putting together is intended to be HIGH QUALITY at 'low cost'.

I believe it would be just as at home in a $1000 dollar loco, as in the Model-Power Plymouth.

I'm just 'breaking the mould' & putting it all together for about £15 quid.


That includes ...

The receiver & electronic speed control.

The power regulator.

The battery.

The battery charger.

&

The transmitter.


So far, I'm on budget as well ... £15 quid ! ... for the ENTIRE high-quality system !! :thumb:

That's inc. delivery P&P by the way. :shocked:


- - - - - - -


:moose:


Si.


Helmut
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Hi all,
cheap RC of course puts a smile in your face - as long as you don't operate it together with other people being on the same trip or close to your WLAN router in case of the  newfangled 2.4 GHz systems.
I  just returned home from a module convention ( same as FREEMO ) where the dispatching and scheduling of train movements was handled via WLAN. Everything DCC, and a guy had his handheld wireless throttles ready for operation, only to be disappointed by their complete failure. The wireless link indication signalled everything OK, but the locos wouldn't move...because the WLAN interfered with his system and the receiver got garbage information. The reason was that his wireless was not implemented as a full 2.4 GHz FHSS, saving maybe 1€ a piece in bulk buying. Just as a cross-check, I placed my 2.4 GHz DSM-RC locos next to his receiver and they operated flawlessly, as they did over the whole quite extensive arrangement with a lot of WLAN APs and clients.
Old story - it is OK to buy cheap as long as you know exactly what you get. Quality has its price and is worth the money. And sometimes you even may pay dear for crap.

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style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"Good advice Helmut style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"
style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"You tend to get what you pay for. Properly implemented 2.4Ghz band systems are very resistant to interference but even the best may not work!. style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"
style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"Don't panic. style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"
style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"This was mentioned on a forum somewhere, I can't remember where. The poster reckoned radio control was no good for exhibition layouts because of interference and wired DCC was the only solution. style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"
style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"I did some online reading and surprise, Your 2.4Ghz system might indeed not work. However this would be most likely because the 2.4Ghz band in the local area was totally saturated by hundreds of mobile phones, tablets etc all trying to use the exhibition halls wireless routers at the same time. This would probably only apply to the largest shows at busy times. All those phone users would be frustrated as well. style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"
style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"Solutions? My home wireless router has both 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz and my tablet connects to the 5Ghz. Those venues need to update their hardware. style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"
style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"Questions - would having a more powerful Tx help? Would using DSMX help? style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"
style="background-color: rgb(198, 225, 215);"Advice - i had some trouble programming my Deltang Rx's with the Prog4. My desk lamp had a daylight bulb, I switched it off and the problems went away.
edit - what the heck happened?

Last edited on Mon Apr 24th, 2017 10:50 am by davecttr

Si.
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Looks like Helmut could be right.


INTERFERENCE !


I'll check it out.

Perhaps Dave was using 'wireless' ?


:brill:


Si.

W C Greene
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Well, it appears that the "ancient" 27 MHZ ANALOG systems are indeed superior...wink, wink..but maybe so.

WCG

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I am no expert but they must have a much greater saturation of 2.4 gh in the UK and Europe.  I have never experienced an interferrance problem at any shows or events here in the US.  Seems almost every visitor is holding a cell phone, taking picture with their phone etc.  

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Bob R wrote: I am no expert but they must have a much greater saturation of 2.4 gh in the UK and Europe.  I have never experienced an interferrance problem at any shows or events here in the US.  Seems almost every visitor is holding a cell phone, taking picture with their phone etc.  yep, if i am correct, a celphone uses other frequensys
Cor

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Bob R wrote: I am no expert but they must have a much greater saturation of 2.4 gh in the UK and Europe.  I have never experienced an interferrance problem at any shows or events here in the US.  Seems almost every visitor is holding a cell phone, taking picture with their phone etc.  
seen it on a model show that severall people had problems with there RC equipment on the 2.4ghzevery techniek has his limits, maybe bigger , but there are limits
Cor

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@woodie
The ancient 27MHz are definitely not superior.
First, there ( in Europe ) you have only 25 channels - that is you can run only 25 independent locos at once. For the loner no problem - but in a group? You have to negotiate which channel is run by whom, and the problems arise when your system cannot change channels.
Second, there is a well-known phenomenon called the 'rusty-bolt-effect', that is, any metal part in the line of transmission or in the vicinity, that is not grounded, can act as a secondary source and wipe the signal out. Old devil interference!
You'll be a bit better off in 40,68 MHz where you have some 40+ channels ( albeit not all legal in certain countries )
Third, there is always the dimensional problem. Only if you have the space, a standard RC receiver plus the motor controller will fit in.

@all
2.4 GHz systems can have problems when there are devices around using  Bluetooth.
Cell phones connect to WLAN if you want to go into the internet - which could be a problem when you're in the vicinity of a hotspot.
Normal cellphone frequencies are far off and do no harm.
But all this will only give you trouble when you are not using the full 80 possible channels ( which are available everywhere, AFAIK no limitations )  and some sort of spread-spectrum transmission method. You have to distribute your signal over the whole range in order to get through under all circumstances. You have to determine which channel is open and continously scan for open ones in case your transmission gets blocked.
Such a method is only feasible when using high frequencies and cannot be applied to classical RC frequencies. Sadly enough, there are many primitive single-channel systems sold misleading their customers by boasting '2.4GHz technology' - especially in the China-made RC-toy field.

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In Great Britain, back in the late '70s & early '80s ...
... the 27MHz band generally, was totally RAMMED FULL of garbage, junk & ...



... INTERFERENCE !



The vast majority of which, was NOT caused by people using R.C. equipment ...
... but mostly by illegally operated 27MHz AM C.B. radios !!


Following the release of Sam Peckinpahs worst, but nevertheless CULT movie 'Convoy' ...
... C.B. radios imported from the States, were in great demand !

Many of these were supposedly brought back from the U.S. by 'enthusiasts' ...
... who probably just got back from a 'Freddie Laker' fly-drive holiday 'across the pond'.


The first thing most of these enthusiasts did when they got their new A.M. 'Midland' or 'Motorola' out of their suitcase ...
... was to whack up a whopping great big 18-foot antenna.
And if they possibly could, hook up a 100 Watt, or sometimes even BIGGER, linear-amplifier, or 'BURNER' as they used to call 'em ...
... and it was ...



... " Breaker, Breaker, this is The Duck ! ... do you copy Outer Mongolia ? !! "



Anyway ...
... 30 odd years later ... I had a nose around on the 27MHz band a short while back.

Using a pretty nice ICOM rapid-radio-scanner.
I checked out the entire 27MHz frequency.
Including AM, FM and Sidebands, over the course of a whole day.


Guess what I found on 27MHz these days ?





ABSOLUTELY





NOTHING !





:moose:





Si.





???







W C Greene
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Good points Helmut...but I have only 5 lokies now and run "lone wolf" so I only need one loco in operation at one time. I will, however, note that the only interference I had over the years was caused (evidently) by a bad flourescent light at a convention center where the modular club set-up. An N scale club blamed me for interference also but the real culprit was a Lionel layout next to us operated with a digital doo-dah and sound effects, etc. which caused their motorized mice to misbehave.
Well, that's my story and I'm living with it!
BTW-did you see the "wink, wink" in my post?

We'll have fun, fun, fun, till her daddy takes the T Bird away!
Woodie

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For my planned layout I figure I'll only be running one loco at a time...maybe two if I get really brave.  But, I'm still very new to this R/C stuff, so I have a big learning curve ahead of me.

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I demonstrate my radio control locos at shows and typically have two transmitters on at once. I have not had any problems with interference between the two systems, the way they operate is designed to be interference free so that is what I would expect.

Last December at the Manchester exhibition I was next to the "End of the line" layout which uses radio controlled vehicles. These use the same system as I use for the locos. Again, there were no problems.

I have also had no problems with WiFi systems when the locos are bound to the transmitters beforehand. The only problems I have had (and this is over four years of using radio control pretty well exclusively) is when binding a loco to a transmitter, I have found it does not work too well if close to a WiFi device - in this case, my computer which sits alongside my workbench. Simply moving further away solves the problem and once bound there is no problem at all.

Frank

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I wonder if there is some form of plastic bag shielding so we can bind anywhere.

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Every system has its dos and don'ts. For wireless, one of them is to bind the vehicle's receiver beforehand.

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I was so impressed with the price of the 380mAh LiPo I found, for only £1.36p inc P&P ...

... that I decided to buy another one as well !


( I'm only chalking-up ONE on the £15 Quid budget though, OK ? )





So now I have TWO !  the same !!




I also had a bit of a further nose around, in the wonderful world of eBay.

Checking out all that CHINESE CRAP that some of you think I shouldn't be using !


It's ALL Chinese crap BTW guys ...

... The EXPENSIVE CRAP just gets a glitzy label stuck on it & they charge your VISA card more for it !


Mmm...


So I ended up with a 3rd LiPo battery as well.

31x20x7mm in size ( photo later ! ... ;) )


Cheapest I could find this one for as a 'buy it now' was £2.10p

Mmm ... a bit expensive !

So I held out, and went for an AUCTION on the same battery !!


BINGO !


Got the 250mAh LiPo for only £1.20p inc P&P :bg:


N  I  C  E  !


:brill:


Si.

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.......and the postage was?

Helmut
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Well Tony,
Hubsan Walkera also is Chinese stuff and you get 6off 3.7V@380mAh w/ loader for 12.29€ including P&P  here in Germany.
@Si how's that?

Last edited on Wed Apr 26th, 2017 07:05 pm by Helmut

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" .......and the postage was? "


Hi Tony :wave:


Included.


250mAh £1.20 inc. P&P


380mAh £1.36p inc. P&P


:brill:


Si.

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" Si how's that? "


Hi Helmut :wave:


Not bad !

You're getting the hang of this buying cheap crap operation !! ;)


I did see the all-in-one 4,5, or 6 batteries + charger deals.

Pretty good, I think, I'll do the maths on it.


Doesn't look as good as £1.36p inc. P&P each though.


I have actually bought a 'proper' charger also.

I was gonna do a benchtop 'lash up' on that, to save £0.99p or so.

But thought, hey ! this is 'proper stuff', gonna need a PROPER charger.


Chargers next . . .


:moose:


Si.


Dave the postman hurled the 1st 380mAh battery at me on Saturday morning !

Looks in nice shape, and has what seems like a 'healthy' 3.98 Volts on it. :bg:

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A further 'slow trickle' ;) of R.C. components, has been arriving at Mysterious Moose Mountain H.Q.

My 2nd 380mAh £1.36p inc. P&P LiPo battery arrived today. :cool:

So did my new LiPo battery charger, more on that  l  a  t  e  r  .  .  .


- - - - - - -


In looking at all the possible options for the project, one thing was paramount ...

... COST !

AND high-quality !!

It seems to me that economy AND quality, are easily achievable TOGETHER, no problem.



I might come back and describe another option I came up with also.

But I do have an R.C. receiver winging it's way to me at this very moment.



I went for a 'modular' approach, rather than an 'all on 1 board' scenario.

This will allow easy & cheap 'swop-out' of any individual failed components, in that unlikely event.



I looked at 27MHz AM/FM, 40MHZ, 35MHZ (I think ?) & a couple of others as well.

The overwhelming conclusion I came to, was that a 2.4GHz system, was by far the most economical & easily available.



It was not possible, despite a lot of looking, at both new & 2nd hand R.C. gear ...

... to buy ANY receiver, as far as I can tell, that is cheaper than this one  .  .  .















Easy to get from tons of suppliers.

No soldering required, although pins CAN of course be soldered to if needed.

Probably easy to remove the plastic case, for an even more compact board.


And of course cheap !  .  .  .  VERY CHEAP !!


£3.84p inc. P&P


It's not actually possible to get a whole pint of beer for that these days. :f:


( they can also be bought as a Rx. & Tx. 'FlySky' twin-set, for around £20 inc. P&P )



:brill:



Si.



More  s  o  o  n  .  .  .

Helmut
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Well...
now you need an additional full-bridge controller for brushed motors ( nowadays not that easy to find in small size ) plus, in case you want some effects, another controller for on-off outputs. Lots of space if you're in 1:35.... Those R/C jacks aren't that space-saving either.

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Hi Helmut :wave:

Thanks for your encouragement ! ;)


2 VERY-compact & VERY-cheap E.S.C.s will be arriving here soon. :cool:


I'll probably save the 'effects' for when I get the $1000 loco. :shocked:


The plastic receiver-casing & R.C. connectors will most likely get binned & replaced by a custom installation.


It won't fit in my N-scale 0-6-0T though. :f:

Maybe one day something that small might be possible  .  .  .  maybe  .  .  .



:moose:



Si.



" We don't tolerate failure at  S.P.E.C.T.R.E  Mr. Bond ! "



:w:



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What kind/size of jacks/plugs do you use on that receiver?  What kind of transmitter will you be using?  Inquiring minds want to know.  You're keeping me in suspense.

I have a couple of 3.7v LiPos and a voltage booster that I've picked up along the way.  Maling everything fit inside a loco seems to be a challenge.

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Hi Michael :wave:


The connector pins on the receiver are of a standard 0.1" pitch.

They are used in 3s, with a 3-way cable-socket.

They can be easily bought, or even got sometimes from the inside of scrap computers etc.


However an E.S.C. ( electronic speed controller ) often comes with a number of connectors already wired to it.

From left to right ...

0.1" pitch 3-pin receiver plug.

On/Off switch.

Motor Connector.

Battery connector.





You may wish to shorten the wires, or use different connectors ...

... but it is essentially 'Plug & Play' as it stands.


The only change that is really needed to run a loco from 1 battery ...

... is to simply 'splice-in' your 'DC-DC 9 Volt step-up regulator', in the battery line.


:brill:


Si.


I bought the one in the photo for ... £2.54p inc. P&P :bg:

The main-board is about 20x20mm if I remember right.

Can't say fairer than that Guv. ! :P

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Si,

I still want to see your shopping list for all of the parts.  What transmitter do you use with that tiny receiver?

I was thinking of picking up one of the small R/C tanks that come with two speeds for about $12 to install in my new railbus that I'm starting to work on.

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Maybe this one, having lights and working off 2S LiPo is something to consider, too.

Si.
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" I was thinking of picking up one of the small R/C tanks that come with two speeds for about $12 to install in my new railbus "



Hi Michael :Salute:


The mind boggles !


Sometimes even I am lost for words  ;)  .  .  .






:shocked:


Si.


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That'll work for me.  Wonder if I can make the canon really fire.

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Helmut,

That ESC looks interesting, though it might be a tad too large.  Wonder what kind of transmitter works with it.

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@Michael
Don't let the specs fool you. The PCB alone is roughly 20x20x5mm³, if you take the wires and plugs off. It works with EVERY R/C receiver. On the downside is the size of the  receiver you'll need too, that is at least another 20x30x5mm³, contact pins and housing removed. That receiver works with every DSM2 transmitter. Only prerequisite is, that you have to have at least three channels.
Now compare that to DT's space requirements.

Last edited on Thu May 11th, 2017 06:38 am by Helmut

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" I still want to see your shopping list for all of the parts.  What transmitter do you use with that tiny receiver? "



Hi Michael :wave:



When I decided to have a go at R.C. I wanted to find an economical & workable solution.

I thought that a 'decent' workable solution, might be possible for about £15.

This was when I was still looking at a certain type of car/transmitter, to use for parts.



Having made the decision to go for a 'modular' system, rather than 'on one board', I needed a cheap transmitter.

I actually bought a 2.4GHz transmitter recently, for £0.99p + £3.45p P&P.

I could not resist it at the price, as it also looked simple & ideal for 'customization'.

Whether it will work with the receiver I have ordered, is as yet unknown.

Also, for most people, the option of picking up a transmitter for this price, is pretty minimal.



In deciding not to go for the initial 'cheap car' option, my budget 'realistically' possibly went up by about £10.

If the transmitter I have works OK, then I am 'on budget' to do the lot for £15.

If the transmitter I have doesn't work OK, then I will need to get the 'FlySky' transmitter.

This means my budget will increase, to an 'all in' price of around £25.



The setup will still be 'modular', so any toasted-parts can be easily & cheaply replaced.

Also the 'availability' of parts is important as well.

The 'FlySky' TX. & Rx. is not only very cheap at less than £20 inc. P&P, but very widely available.



I thought I would slowly but surely, document my 'economy system' for those who may be interested.

One thing I aint, is QUICK !

Spare time, other models to be made etc. etc. means this isn't 'a race' for me.

I would just like to come to the cheapest & highest-quality solution that I can reasonably find.



£15 or perhaps more realistically £25 spent, is an encouragement to those who might not want to spend 'the big bucks'.

Since I am still waiting for many parts to arrive, it is obviously hard to recommend anything.

Although what I have speced. is not 'rocket science' & is essentially tried & tested R.C. practice.



The bottom-line for this project, will however, always be quality AND cost !

Moose Mountain money, goes on modeling materials, NOT microchips !! ;)



:moose:



Si.



This is the transmitter that 'went for a song'. ;)

I have it here & have had a good 'nose around' inside it ! :shocked:





This is the 'FlySky' Tx. & Rx. twin-set, available for under £20 inc. P&P.





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Nice summation, but I think you forgot to take into account that for that receiver you need an additional 5V-supply or BEC, as it needs at least 4.8V, not exceeding 6V ( This is the standard R/C spec. ). Normally the speed-controller's logic takes its supply from the receiver, so that BEC must be able to supply both. Not a great issue, but to be kept in mind.
When I was still in 1:20 Outdoor Railroading, all my BPRC locos were equipped with components similar to Si's listings. You just have the room there for all that modularity, which I doubt will be available in 1:35.
May I also humbly remark that for RR puroses, those car transmitters are almost unusable in their 'as-is' form? The trigger-type speed control doesn't work so well with locos, when you want some more than on-off operation. Forward and reverse swings are different and do not give the same speed range. The spring-loaded centered steering wheel is a wee bit better, but still you have only some 30..45° degrees of control adjustment.

Last edited on Thu May 11th, 2017 11:13 am by Helmut

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Hi Helmut :wave:



The 5 Volt logic-supply, is made by the E.S.C.s that I have speced.



So ... inside the loco, there needs to be :-

Receiver.

Electronic Speed Controller.

Battery.

DC-DC 9 Volt step-up regulator.



The parts should easily fit in the 1:35n2 Plymouth ... I think.

The R.C.ing business is generally a 'shoehorning' operation, I have noticed.

Unless of course you are doing perhaps 'O' or 'G' standard-gauge, or have huge tenders etc.



I have both a 'fixed' & 'adjustable' DC-DC step-up regulator coming.

Both extremely small.

More on these soon.

One cost £0.57p inc. P&P

The other £1.28 inc. P&P



:moose:



Si.

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" for RR puroses, those car transmitters are almost unusable in their 'as-is' form?
The trigger-type speed control doesn't work so well with locos, when you want some more than on-off operation.
Forward and reverse swings are different and do not give the same speed range.
The spring-loaded centered steering wheel is a wee bit better,
but still you have only some 30..45° degrees of control adjustment."



Hi again Helmut :wave:



Sounds like I might as well just give up then ...

... and simply go back to using my reliable, cheap & easy to wire-up, Tri-ang resistance-controller.



Maybe I should get out, while the going is good ...

... I've only wasted £15 so far.

Perhaps I could sell the parts on eBay & not loose too much money ?



:f:



Si.






W C Greene
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Gee, I didn't know that the "r/c car" pistol transmitters don't control locos properly. I guess that I will need to get rid of the two I have been using for 15 years or so and find something "more appropriate". I have believed that they worked pretty well all this time but what do I know anyway?
Hmmm, since I am on social security, I imagine that I will have to keep things as is and have fun running my antique trains with my caveman equipment.
Now, is anyone willing to front me the money to buy the latest toys?

Troublesome Outlaw Woodie

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Woodie -
I just described my experiences with a few brands of car transmitters that I bought during the last five years. A particular one is shown on the photo. It came as a bargain package w/receiver. It has two channels, the receiver has three.
The speed trigger gave very bad resolution and was not symmetric, although it is a full proportional channel. So I decided to have something more familiar with a decent rotary knob.
I removed the original centering spring and the mechanical travel limits, and the trigger. That channel I used for function by installing a resistive ladder and pushbuttons, giving four different function values in my case. How it works is a  different story and may be told later.
Most commercially available on/off switch PPM decoders work with just the maximum/minimum setting of the channel PPM signal. Depending on duration and /or repetition rate of the signal, one or more on/off outputs can be switched.
The other channel is used for speed+direction setting, easily done by a DPDT switch, two resistors, and the pot. The signal it generates is understood by almost all available reversible speed controllers. The principle may also be topic of a thread later.



@Si
That's all, I keep my mouth shut  in your thread now. Show us your shoehorning.

Last edited on Thu May 11th, 2017 02:04 pm by Helmut

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Helmut,

I'm about as dumb as dirt when it comes to R/C, so I generally sit back and listen to those in the know and try to learn a thing or two.  My first attempt at installing a Coke can R/C car into a loco was a failure (I think I fried the board), but on my second attempt I did mange to shoehorn a 1:18 scale R/C car components into a 1:35 scale 4-wheel critter.  I was just thrilled to death that it worked!  What I really like about using R/C car components (or tanks) is that everything I need is there.  All I have to do is pull everything apart and shove it into a loco shell (I'm very good at taking things apart...putting things back together not so well).


Woodie and Si,

Just keep the information coming please.  The more I learn the braver I get. 


I did pick up one of those voltage step-up boards.  This thing is VERY small!  But it was only a couple of dollars, and I couldn't resist.

W C Greene
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Helmut, I failed to mention that my old "Capt. Kirk" space pistol transmitters were made by KYOSHO, at the time a top name in the rtr r/c car market. The boards which I still have in the lokies are also KYOSHO Mini T parts. This old stuff has served me well, I am glad that I could afford the stuff back when I had a job and not be tied to being an old man waiting for the "check in the mail" from the government. It's all cool.
Have fun and run a (r/c) train today!

Woodie

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" That's all, I keep my mouth shut  in your thread now. Show us your shoehorning."



Hi Helmut :wave:



Sorry Helmut, you can't jump-ship just as it is springin' a leak ! ;)

We need your expertise on hand, in case there is trouble pluggin' the hole !! :brill:



Your GX2 mods. look very interesting.

A 're-badged' FlySky, by the looks of things.

I did see that they seem to be available in both monochrome & orangey placky.



One of the reasons I bought the £0.99p transmitter was ...

... I knew I wouldn't end up in tears, if my HACKSAWING of the main-board went pear-shaped ! :shocked:

I am probably known for more crazy plans than this ...

... so it probably won't surprise much, that I had considered re-casing it, in a spare Tri-ang P-42 ! :Crazy:

You just can't get quality phenolic-resin enclosures like these in the 21st Century. :f:







The 2-channel FlySky, GX2, or whatever they are floggin' it as these days, looks pretty simple.

Although it does have all the extra 'trim' jazz & switches/buttons under the flip-up hood at the back.

Still, better than the ones with L.C.D screens, which I have totally avoided ...

... I can do without 'watching tele' while I'm playing trains. :P



Helmut, you should do that Thread on modding your transmitter, it looks very interesting.

I may start another Thread if I mod. my £0.99p one, as I am going to keep this Thread as simple as possible.



I am actually still on the lookout for some 27MHz A.M. gear, as it happens.

For some unknown reason, it seems quite scarce on eBay.

What does come up, is always complex, high-cost & 'collectable' even, vintage stuff.


I nearly bid on 2 'Hi-Tech' 27MHz A.M. receivers the other day.

In the end, they sold for a lot more dough than the £3.84p FlySky though. :f:

Oh well, first things first, I have some Gigas that are gonna Herts me first ! ;)



:!:



Si.



Dave the postman delivered some more cheap crap I'd bought, this morning.

Including a pair of nice small & cheap DC-DC 9 Volt step-up regulators ...

... and THE WRONG E.S.C !  :f:  which aint nuttin' like the one in the eBay photo !


I guess you get what you pay for ! ... Or not, as in this case !! :f:  ;)


:moose:


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Si,

I was looking at one of these transmitter/receiver, but not sure just how to hook it up.

27 MHz Tx. & Rx. Circuit Boards

I assume that I'll need an ESC also.  If I could figure out how it all goes together I might give it a try.

I was planning on using one of these RC tank for my upcoming rail car.

1:72 Scale R.C. Tank



Si.
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Hi Michael :wave:



I do like to be positive & open minded about the possibilities of these things.

But I have to say, my feeling is, that neither of those options are gonna work out that good.



I looked at a similar pair of Tx. & Rx. boards in both 27MHz & 2.4GHz.

I also looked at a number of cars, which were based on the same, or similar, boards.

This is what my friends R.C. car that I had a go at a while back was run on as well.



These cars look like they have a double 'proportional' stick control.

But in fact, I believe this is a 'faux proportional control'.

In other words, they appear, to have only ONE forward or reverse speed.

You can see the simple sprung control-contacts on the Tx. board.

Basically just forward/backwards & full-left/full-right, by the looks of things.


The receiver board is also only capable of supplying 2 - 3.5 Volts to the motor.

It also looks like you would need to buy & solder in 'crystals', cos I don't see any included.



The tank looks like a similar situation.

A maximum supply to the motor of only 3 Volts, by the looks of things.

Also only ONE forward or reverse speed again.

Plus the added complication of it being a tank ...

... & turning left/right involves 2 motors, running in opposite directions, to achieve steering.



For around $20 bucks, you could get the 'FlySky' Tx. & Rx. twin-set.

For another $5 bucks ish, you could get an E.S.C, and 'this & that'.

You've already got a DC-DC 9 Volt step-up regulator ...

... and probably a battery or two, and a charger.


I think the 'FlySky' rig would take some beating on BOTH price & performance.

Which is why I'm going for it myself.

The modular components all have documented sizes & photos to go on as well.

Being seperate parts also, they could easily be installed in different parts of a model, should space be an issue.

It's all 'tried & tested' R.C. practice, and replacement parts are consistent & easy/cheap to get.



:moose:



Si.


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This is why I ask the experts to save myself a lot of frustration. 

I'll check out the FlySky

Si.
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I thought I should say WHY I am still on the look out for some 27MHz gear.



To me it makes no difference whether a system is 27MHz, 35MHz, 40MHz, 2.4GHz etc. etc.



What interests me though, in an affordable 'analog system', eg. 27MHz A.M. ...

... is that an individual loco, is controlled by an individual 'crystal' or 'channel'.



With the 'FlySky' 2.4GHz 'digital system', you have the disadvantage of having to 'bind' a Tx. & Rx. together.

So it's not really possible to use the same transmitter, to control several locos, as needed.

Big-bucks systems allow this of course, but we aint got big-bucks to spend on such 'refinements'.



With an 'analog system', is seems to me that all one needs to do, to control several different locos ...

... is fit a different crystal/channel in each one ...

... the transmitter, which may only hold 1 crystal/channel at a time ...

... could fairly easily be modded. by adding a simple rotary-switch, with a crystal on each position.

Crystals & rotary-switches, are as cheap as it gets.

Switching locos, could be as easy as switching a dial on the modded analog controller.



I have no doubt that some more advanced 'analog' transmitters probably have this feature already built in.

I'm new to this jazz, so have not seen this, but it is a logical step, with such a straight forward non-digital device.



:!:



Si.

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Is this what you had in mind?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flysky-FS-GT2B-2-4G-3CH-Transmitter-W-Battery-GR3E-Receiver-Radio-System-For-RC-/322163477666?hash=item4b02708ca2:g:39AAAOSwoBtW341m

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Hi Michael :wave:


Yes it is, more or less.


I couldn't work out the shipping cost on your link, cos I didn't have a U.S. zip-code handy.

But, shipping was extra, & it seems like there are things in the deal you don't need, like a battery for example.

It did look to be coming from New York though, so might be worth a few bucks extra for speed.


I just very quickly found this one, which is in fact I think what I was looking at a few days ago.

FlySky Tx. & Rx. Twin-Set - $24.15c inc. P&P

This one doesn't include any extras, like batteries etc.


It is also a 2-channel transmitter, not a 3-channel like your link.

The cheap Flysky receivers, all seem to be 3-channel ones.

The difference appears to be, you either get a 2 or 3 channel transmitter.

The receiver will either operate as a 2 or 3 channel, depending on what is controlling it.


I didn't enter any specific code-numbers & stuff like that to search for it.

I just used the search-term 'FlySky Transmitter Receiver' ...

... and 'worldwide listings' then 'cheapest inc. P&P first'.


I found one the other day for about £19 U.K. pounds inc. P&P



:thumb:



Si.



When I find my £0.99p transmitter don't do $4!7 ... I'll probably have to buy one ! ;)


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Hi again Michael :wave:


You may already know the answer to this.

But just a quick thought.


Perhaps that battery in your link is for the transmitter.

The deal came with what looked like a USB cable as well.


I was fairly sure that the one I was looking at, was powered by a 9 Volt, or some AAs.

Might be worth checking on that, for your favored battery type.


:bg:


Si.

 

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The transmitter is powered by a 1S LiPo 3.7V. This is an advantage over earlier models, where the internal supply was 5V and so they had 6 or 8 1.5Vcells to operate it. ( They used standard 7805's to provide the logic's supply! ) A lot of useful energy was wasted this way. Nowadays all that internal stuff works on 3...3.3V, and the overall efficiency is higher - the battery lasts longer.
The receiver is tailored to operate off 5(-0.2/+1)V, because NiMHs are still standard in the R/C world.

Last edited on Sun May 14th, 2017 04:30 pm by Helmut

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This kind of information is exactly why I wanna keep Helmut on wages.

Don't worry Helmut ... The cheque is in the mail. ;)



I must say that those ol' 7805 3-pin regulators, are def. yesterdays tech.

Probably worth spending a few dollars more, for a 3.3 Volt microchip Tx. & battery.



:moose:



Si.



Helmut would hate my RED HOT vacuum-tube dropper-resistors ! :shocked:

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Si

A couple of comments

First, why do you have to control more than one loco at a time. I know that you come from the "instant decision" world of model car racing--but choo-choo's aren't like that.

Unless your racing trains. Put a discrete on off switch somewhere on the loco. You will need that anyway, or else you will be buying a lot of batteries. When the engineer (you) jumps down from the cab to change locos turn the switch off and turn the one on the second loco on, and do your thing. Just ONE frequency involved for the whole railroad.

There have been a couple times, that if a board were in two pieces, it would have made an installation a lot easier. I even considered sawing a board in half, to make things easier one time. Semi-rational thought came back just in time to prevent the almost surety of turning the whole thing into a dogs breakfast. Plus, Gromit said that he wasn't gona eat it anyway 

Herb

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Herb has it right, all I really need is one transmit crystal and several receiver crystals (same freqs) since I seem to not have "ops sessions" with anybody else these days. Of course, all my stuff is old timey analog 27MHZ and I like it that way (so does my pocketbook). For me, the "ultimate" on/off switch would be the good old magnetic reed switches. Just pass the magnet across to run or not. But once again, the old Radio Shack sub miniature switches will have to do, they have been working for many years anyway.
But cutting boards in half? Shirley, you jest! Just don't call me Shirley......

Woodie

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@Si
rotary switches in the oscillator - you must be joking, Mr. Feynman...
Your chances for a nonworking transmitter will be will be multiplied by powers of ten.

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You know what Helmut ...


... I just KNEW you were going to mention that slight problem. ;)


I must admit, it isn't ideal.


Short leads & nearby capacitors though ...

... yer never know, it MIGHT work.


:moose:


Si.


Anyway, on with the simple stuff ...

... I have to test my new battery charger.

The instructions are in CHINESE ! ...

... Haven't got the foggiest idea how it works. :f:


I have some blown up J.B.L.s & amplifier to fix, from my birthday last month as well ! :f:

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??? . . . L: . . . :us: . . . :dope:


I'm not sure how it works.

I bought it cos I liked the colour & have loads of black 'wall warts' already.

You plug it into a 5 Volt OOOSB socket, via the included lead.

It has 6 battery sockets & 6 red LEDs.


I guess it's a trickle-charger :slow: ?

Does it switch off when the jobs done ?

Do the lights go OFF when the battery/ies are charged ?

Do the lights change individually, if say you charge both a large & small battery at the same time ?



:mex:



Si.



The design & marketing boys dun me on this one ...

... I payed £0.65p more than I needed to, cos I thought a green one looked :cool: !


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Thanks very much Herb & Woodie BTW.

The simple easy access on/off switch on a loco would be fine.

My idea is that if 2 locos are being operated at once ...

... one would be D.C. and the other R.C. anyhow.

I like the idea of a R.C. switcher being able to operate around a yard ...

... without bothering a D.C. loco that has arrived with cars, for example.


- - - - - - -


Another question.

E.S.C.s for cars, are available with/without a 'brake' function.

I don't quite understand what the 'brake' function is.

Could a loco operate with BOTH types of E.S.C ?

Or is it best to have either a 'brake' or 'no brake' E.S.C ?


:moose:


Si.


I guess the 'brake' function, loads the armature on deceleration ...

... same as a slotcar throttle with a 'brake' function.

I figure in practice, this affects a generally fairly slow-moving loco, very little.

So either should be OK. L:

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@Si
ESCs with dynamic braking are only suitable for electric racing cars and not for worm-gear locos. A sudden stop by short-circuiting the motor ( which is mostly the case, only the most sophisiticated controllers for 1:4 cars etc. offer gradual braking ) can cause gear tooth caries.

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OH I SEE ! :dope:

( That's what my Yamaha hard-disc recorder says, when it KNOWS you've been an IDIOT ! ) ;)



Thanks very much Helmut :bow:

Yes, a slotcar doesn't have a worm-gear & there is a lot of potential slippage/skidding.

I always knew there was a good reason my Dad said ...

... never to throw the reversing switch, when my Tri-ang 'Dock Authority' was at full throttle ! ;)



I did for some reason order 2 ESCs, one with & one without a 'brake'.

I think the 'brake' one may well have a brake on/off switch on it though ...

... but again, the £2.54p I paid, obviously didn't cover the cost of printing instructions, other than in CHINESE !

Perhaps I can use the 'brake' one, in a gearhead motored loco. L:



Another $0.05c cheque is in the mail Helmut. :thumb:



:moose:



Si.



I actually have all my parts now ! :bg:

I should have ordered some battery connectors though, as I don't have any at the moment. :f:

Michael M
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Connectors aren't much.  I get the JST 1.25.  Ther're about $1.75 for a package of 10.  I have several packages so everything I wire up will be the same.  I have a little charger similar to yours and the light goes out once the battery is charged.  If the sockets don't fit your other gear you should be able to pry it apart and solder new connectors.  That's what I did with one of mine and it works fine.

Can't help you with Chinese...the only word I know is 'pijiu' (beer).

Si.
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Hi Guys :wave:



In looking at the battery connector situation & finding some to buy ...

... I have only just realized that the female cable-socket on my LiPos does not fit the male cable-plug on my 2 ESCs. :f:



The female cable-socket on the LiPos seems to be 'standard', with 2 small side-wings, as is the charger chassis-plug.



I really need to buy some matching male cable-plugs, to connect to the LiPos.

Does anyone know the name of the 'standard' LiPo/charger  socket/plug  connector ?

I have searched quite a bit & don't seem to see them coming up among battery connectors.



For other various connections, I think I am going to go with the 1.25mm pitch Molex micro-blade.

It seems easily available, whilst the marginally smaller 1.00mm less so.

The 2.00mm series seems fairly easy to get as well.

Mmm...



The correct name & finding the battery connectors, has me stumped at the moment ! :f:

Is the LiPo/charger connector generally called a 'LOSI micro' ? L:

Ah ! ... It seems to be called a 'JST micro 2.00' ( I think ).



Si.



It's nice to see most of the parts on the bench anyhow.

Their relative size can now be seen alongside a number of locos I have.

Michael M
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Si,

I kinda ran into the same problem.  It seemed that everyone used a different style or size connector and there wasn't any kind of 'standard'.  Someone here recommended the JST 1.25 connectors and so that's what I've been using on everything.  It just seemed to make life easier rather than worrying which connector a LiPo/charger/circuit board had.  I just buy what I need knowing I'm going to change the connector anyway.  There are bigger things to worry about such as which loco to convert to RC next.

W C Greene
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Si, the "standard name" (at least here in the US) is JST PLUGS. I don't know what that means but that is what r/c guys call them and you could walk into a hobby store and ask for them. Now, I have seen "Mini" and "micro" JST plugs but the regular ones that come on Li Pos, etc. are just JST. Corn-fusing? Hell yes.
That's why I get rid of the damn things and solder on MINIATRONICS 2 PIN MICRO PLUGS. These work well, are very small and once again, I have used them for many years. No, they ain't real cheap but YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

Mi dos centavos...
WCG

Si.
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Howdy Woodie :cb:



It was a bit of a long slog ...

... but EVENTUALLY the LiPo connectors were found.



There does seem to be some confusion over the 'proper' name for some of these things.

I saw a number of eBay listings which were contradictory & basically WRONG.



The connector on my LiPos ( with the 2 side-wings ) & charger is called a ...

'LOSI micro T 2.0'

or

'Walkera micro 2.0'

They should be found eventually on eBay, using these search-terms.

The 'side-wings' confirm that the connector is correct, as I see no other connectors that have them.

I found a deal on 10x wired plugs & 10x wired sockets, for £1.26p inc. P&P

Also 10x plug & 10x socket shells with crimps, for £2.08p inc. P&P

I did have to search rather hard to find a good deal, as these connectors do seem to go for some dough.



I also got some JST 1.25mm pitch wired plugs & sockets as well.

These are I believe are also sometimes known as Molex micro-blades'.

This type of connector is used by Bachmann & Hornby a lot, so I discovered.

These are EASY to find & very cheap indeed.

You can get JST 1.25mm shells with crimps, but do they look tiny ? ... Yep !



I was impatient on the JST 1.25 ones & actually flashed some cash for a bunch next day.

The LOSI/Walkera 2.0 ones are coming from Ying Ping Jing Pong Provence & could take a while to get here.

However I only need 1 per loco/installation, whereas the JST 1.25mm ones, I will use for LEDs, motors & the cigar lighter !

Meanwhile I can 'bodge' the battery hook up ...

... no sweat. I've got a fire-extinguisher & asbestos underwear ! ;)



:moose:



Si.



Need some other jazz, like really small heatshrink-tubing ...

... but basically, I have got all the parts ! :bg:

Now to get down to busting & burning 'em out !! :shocked: ;)


Si.
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Here's the link to the LiPo & charger, sockets & plugs, at a very good price ...

... £1.26p inc. P&P for 10x wired sockets & 10x wired plugs.


LOSI micro T 2.0 / Walkera micro 2.0


They are the ones needed to connect with this type of LiPo & charger connector.





:brill:


Si.


fallen
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The JST 1.25 AKA Molex is commonly used for battery connectors too, the ones with the connector mounted on the battery for example. See for example
http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/lipo_um.html

Be careful though, this pattern of connector comes in various sizes and they are all described as JST!

I have tried the do-it-yourself crimped ones, I got about half connected, the others just broke in the process, you need the proper and expensive crimp tool for this to work well. The ones with wires attached are best if you don't have the tool.

Frank

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Those who know how to solder might try this variant ( from the same website )

fallen
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Those are very useful and easy enough to solder, it's the connector that plugs into that one that I found difficult.

http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/images/gen/micron/mrc-molex-3pin-conn-5pk_500.jpg

This one crimps together and needs the proper tool. It's a lot easier to buy the ready wired version, eg.

http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/images/gen/micron/mrc-molex-2pin-extlead-75mm_500.jpg


Frank

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The Molex and JST connectors are not interchangeable, even if they can be connected with some fiddling. Even Wikipedia notes that JST-GH is sometimes confused with Molex Picoblade.
I use eFlite 150 and 70 mAH batteries, they have Molex connectors. The connectors with pins (blades) are not too difficult to solder wires onto, the sockets are near impossible (for me) so I buy them with wires when I need them.

https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=15134-0201

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JST_connector

Last edited on Mon May 22nd, 2017 06:28 pm by bobquincy

Si.
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Hi Guys :wave:


Thanks for the info.


My JST-GH 1.25mm pitch wired plug/socket connectors arrived.

I can't say that I'm exactly overjoyed about them ...

... which I had a feeling would be the case.


I would like to really use 24awg cable.


I may well investigate the 2.00mm pitch JST-PA series ...

... I don't particularly want a 'locking' connector either.


My preferred connector pitch has always been 0.1" or 2.54mm

I use both standard MOLEX and one called AMP-MODU already.

They are somewhat largish, I can easily hand-crimp the terminals though.


The principle problem with soldering a flexible wire connector, is the copper becomes easy to break at the join.

The second problem is that most of the connectors can't take heat at all well.

If you want one that can, go for something made from glass-reinforced plastic.


I would however use the JST-GH 1.25mm for LED headlamps perhaps ...

... so they probably won't go to waste.


I may well check out the Miniatronics-micro as well.

I would like to just 'standardize' on this & then forget about it, so a good decision is needed.

I may even just stick to the 0.1" systems I already use for various audio stuff.


L:


Si.


The LiPo connector will be the 'standard' LOSI Micro-T 2.0 for sure  .  .  .

Michael M
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For the uninitiated, like me, does it really make a lot of difference which type of connector you use?

fallen
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Michael,

The main thing is that you need the right connector for the batteries you are using. As there are several different but apparently similar connectors, you need to make sure you have the right one. Best thing is to get the batteries and connectors from the same supplier.

I use the same connector for the battery and for a charging connector, that way there is only one type to worry about.

Frank

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It seems like everyone has their own preference on what type of connectors to use.  Since I am very new to RC I just want to make sure that I'm not messing things up again.  It seems that suppliers of batteries and chargers all use a different connector.  I've been using JST 1.25 and if something doesn't fit I just cut off the odd connector and solder on the 1.25 connector.  Since there seems to be no standards in 35n2, except maybe track gauge, I figured I needed to have a few standards somewhere just to keep what little sanity I have left.

My first attempt at using RC was a complete failure (I think I fried the board).  My second attempt was successful by gutting a RC car for the parts.  I'm ever so slowing working on a railcar and plan on gutting another RC car for the needed electronics.  That's about as brave as I can get dealing with RC.  It's been a huge learning curve for me.

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After operating for a couple years with single cell 3.7 volt lipo power I have become a convert and am switching to two cell 7.4 volt.  I use Pololu step up regulators stepping the voltage to 9 volts.  Looking at the charts they indicate 80 percent battery efficiency  from 3.7 volt versus 90 percent efficiency from 7.4 volt.  That did not seem like a big deal to me.  I must admit I am electrically challenged.  
Having read many articles and posts that claim hours of run time on tiny batteries using 7.4 volt, I decided to try it out.  My little steam engines are using Bachmann Percy HO mechanisms.  With a single cell 3.7 volt 280 mah battery I get 1:15 to 1:30 hour run time.  My test with a two cell 7.4 volt 250 mah battery yielded 2:30 to 3:00 hour run time.  That seems like a lot more than a 10 percent increase in efficiency.
I liked single cell because of battery size and no need for battery voltage protection.  The Pololu regulator shuts dowm when voltage drops below 3 volts so low voltage protection was not needed and I use quality chargers that cut off a full charge of 4.2 volts.
My 280 mah batteries are 6mm x 20mm x 35mm.  Looking around I found 250 mah cells that are 4mm x 20mm x 35mm.  Two together are only slightly thicker than the single 280 mah cell.  I also found small battery protection circuits (BPC).  Cost was quite reasonable.  10 batteries were $19.99 and 10 BPCs were $12.99.
I have now converted 4 engines and am well pleased with the results.
Attached picture is one of the Bagnalls battery install.  The charge jack is a two pin Molex which fits very nicely and is not really visible once painted.

Attachment: 20170525_195219_resized.jpg (Downloaded 28 times)

Bob R
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This view shows how the charge jack appears after painting.

Attachment: 20170527_085013_resized.jpg (Downloaded 29 times)

Michael M
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Bob,

 I too are electrically challenged and that's one large reason why RC has been so appealing to me.  But, then RC is a whole new world to me.  I've been playing around with some of these step-up voltage boosters just to see how everything comes together.  I'm amazed at how small some of them are, and how cheap. 

My first successful attempt at installing RC in a loco looks like a bowl of spaghetti inside, but it worked.  I used parts from a 1:10 scale race car.  I still plan on using race car parts but I need to use something smaller.

The more people post, the more I learn.  Thanks everyone.




Bob R
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Michael M wrote: Bob,

  

My first successful attempt at installing RC in a loco looks like a bowl of spaghetti inside, but it worked.  I used parts from a 1:10 scale race car.  I still plan on using race car parts but I need to use something smaller.





Michael
I would recommend DelTang.  I have found it to be great.  Very small, reliable and resonably priced.  Basic throttle $39 and receivers/ESC $45.  The throttle can be "bound" to as many engines as you desire.  For single person operations with only one engine running at a time - all you need is one throttle.  You can not get smaller and more adaptable.

Michael M
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Bob,

Several people have recommended DelTang, and I have looked at their products.  But, right now it's just not in the budget; hopefully in the near future.  So, for the time being I'll just use parts from $10-20 race cars.  At least I'm having fun.

Si.
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" Michael
I would recommend DelTang.
I have found it to be great.
Very small, reliable and resonably priced.
Basic throttle $39 and receivers/ESC $45.
The throttle can be "bound" to as many engines as you desire.
For single person operations with only one engine running at a time - all you need is one throttle.
You can not get smaller and more adaptable."


The main problem is, especially in light of the '£15 Quid' price-tag ( OK £25 maybe ).
COST !
In this Thread, we are looking at practical, grassroots methods, to AVOID spending ... THE BIG BUCKS $$$


" Several people have recommended DelTang,
and I have looked at their products.
But, right now it's just not in the budget;
hopefully in the near future.
So, for the time being I'll just use parts from $10-20 race cars.
At least I'm having fun."


Yeah ... I mean, if you aint got $100-200 Bucks to do on ***** R.C. gear ...

... then just think   e   c   o   n   o   m   y   !


:moose:


Si.


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Bob, the reason your 7.4V battery pack gives you extended run times is that those 2 batteries contain more watts than a single 3.7V cell

1 x 3.7V 280mAh = 1.036 watts
2 x 3.7V 250mAh = 1.85 watts
plus the better conversion efficiency

as long as your loco is drawing the same amount of milliamps the 2 batteries will last longer. I have tested this and it works!

fallen
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Bob,

Dave is right on the money. The reason your two cell setup runs twice as long as your single cell one is because you have two cells so twice the stored energy. The extra 10% in efficiency covers the difference between 280 mAh cells and 250 mAh ones.

The voltage converter has to take the same amount of energy to drive the motor in either case, so if the battery is supplying half the voltage it will draw twice the current. So the two cell setup only has to supply half the current so lasts twice as long.

Frank


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