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Si.
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There's this Texan guy Woodie  :cb:  who you might know.

He's been trying to warp my copper-wired D.C. brain for some years now !



His mantra has been spinning around in my head, like rotors on a quadcopter !! :Crazy:

R.C. ... R.C. ... R.C. ... R.C. ...



The $1000 dollar loco I wanted was out of the question, after the rent cheque went out ! :f:

So I had to settle for a $20 buck Model-Power Plymouth instead !!



I stuck my neck out the other day, and said I thought it could be R.C.ed for £15 quid.

Is it possible to put together a HIGH QUALITY system, for the same price as 3-pints of beer ? L:



Could be . . .



Here's the story . . .



:brill:



Si.


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W C Greene
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I keep telling you, I DIDN'T spend mega bucks for either locos or r/c equipment. The stuff I bought has been working now for ALMOST 20 years! Yes, the boards are that old and the Li Po batteries are just about that old. The problems with these batteries going nuclear is because car racers and copter/aircraft modelers may have several models but normally have ONE SET OF BATTERIES and when they start running out of punch, they want to recharge IN A HURRY and that's when the batteries smoke! My old batteries get what amounts to a trickle charge. I have more than one lokie so if the road loco needs water & coal, I have another one all topped up to use. Besides, when I need a charge, I am usually tired of switching for several hours and need a charge myself.

Woodie

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Ditto what Woodrow says.  Low cost engines and RC gear always puts a smile on my face.The battery issue is always debated.  
On the DeadRail site there is a current argument going on about use of RC batteries versus "high quality" lipos.   Woodie is correct about our use with low current rate charging etc. 
I also race RC cars and fly RC planes.  Car racers, in order to get the max performance, charge at very high amp rates (frequently in excess of 20 amps). The newer race chargers have the ability to over charge - ie charge to more than 4.2 volts per cell.  They do not care about battery safety or battery life.  Only going fast.
I have never had a battery failure with a small RC train lipo and I buy the cheaper RC cells. Use a decent charger and reasonable precautions and you will wonder what the debates are all about.
Bob

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Hi Guys :wave:


I was going to start off with something completely different ...

... but just so the Thread isn't totally derailed into yet another tedious debate about batteries ...

... here's the principle battery philosophy which I adopted for my project.



BUY THE CHEAPEST DAMN BATTERY YOU CAN ! ... PERIOD !!



So I did !


I got on eBay.

Typed in the simple search term 'LiPo Battery'

Followed by 'Worldwide Listings'

Followed by 'Cheapest First'

& about 2 minutes later, had bought the battery for the project !





The battery I bought, as far as I can tell, is the cheapest LiPo battery available on Planet Earth !

It is a 380mAh bog-standard 3.7 Volt LiPo battery.

The physical size is quoted as 40x20x7mm.

It cost me £1.36p inc. P&P !


End of story on batteries !!


At the moment, that's the subject of batteries DONE & DUSTED for my project.


:P


Si.


Am I worried about it blowing-up, melting-down, catching-fire or giving me nervous-twitches ?

NO I AM NOT !

It's just an ordinary everyday battery, just like TRILLIONS of others !!

:cool:

I did make a mental note of Herbs  :old dude: very sound advice on batteries though ...

... which was ... " Don't stab it with an Exacto-knife, as the goo pours out all over the workbench ! "

Thanks Herb !

I'm gonna be REAL CAREFUL to avoid that !! ;)


Si.
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" I DIDN'T spend mega bucks for either locos or r/c equipment "

" The stuff I bought has been working now for ALMOST 20 years! "

" Yes, the boards are that old and the Li Po batteries are just about that old "


Howdy Woodie :cb:


I have to say, I wouldn't even be trying this project, without your inspiration. :bow:


I'm not 'pennyless', so I could EASILY go out & buy all the usual hi-cost R.C. gear, no problem.

However, as a kid with ZERO $$$, I always took on the challenge, to do what others paid 10x the price for, as a necessity !


Having just celebrated my 50th birthday last week ...

... I now actually ENJOY that challenge, and am always rewarded, when I can 'give the bird' to the jet-set !

I've consistently done this whilst designing & building electronics in vacuum-tubes, scientific-projects & more recently pro-audio.


" WORKS FOR ME ! "  -  Hannibal Smith, The A-Team.


- - - - - - -


" Low cost engines and RC gear always puts a smile on my face."


Hi Bob :wave:


It's nice to have a big smile about these things ! :bg:


Although the Model-Power Plymouth is indeed 'low cost' ...

... the R.C. system I'm putting together is intended to be HIGH QUALITY at 'low cost'.

I believe it would be just as at home in a $1000 dollar loco, as in the Model-Power Plymouth.

I'm just 'breaking the mould' & putting it all together for about £15 quid.


That includes ...

The receiver & electronic speed control.

The power regulator.

The battery.

The battery charger.

&

The transmitter.


So far, I'm on budget as well ... £15 quid ! ... for the ENTIRE high-quality system !! :thumb:

That's inc. delivery P&P by the way. :shocked:


- - - - - - -


:moose:


Si.


Helmut
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@woodie
The ancient 27MHz are definitely not superior.
First, there ( in Europe ) you have only 25 channels - that is you can run only 25 independent locos at once. For the loner no problem - but in a group? You have to negotiate which channel is run by whom, and the problems arise when your system cannot change channels.
Second, there is a well-known phenomenon called the 'rusty-bolt-effect', that is, any metal part in the line of transmission or in the vicinity, that is not grounded, can act as a secondary source and wipe the signal out. Old devil interference!
You'll be a bit better off in 40,68 MHz where you have some 40+ channels ( albeit not all legal in certain countries )
Third, there is always the dimensional problem. Only if you have the space, a standard RC receiver plus the motor controller will fit in.

@all
2.4 GHz systems can have problems when there are devices around using  Bluetooth.
Cell phones connect to WLAN if you want to go into the internet - which could be a problem when you're in the vicinity of a hotspot.
Normal cellphone frequencies are far off and do no harm.
But all this will only give you trouble when you are not using the full 80 possible channels ( which are available everywhere, AFAIK no limitations )  and some sort of spread-spectrum transmission method. You have to distribute your signal over the whole range in order to get through under all circumstances. You have to determine which channel is open and continously scan for open ones in case your transmission gets blocked.
Such a method is only feasible when using high frequencies and cannot be applied to classical RC frequencies. Sadly enough, there are many primitive single-channel systems sold misleading their customers by boasting '2.4GHz technology' - especially in the China-made RC-toy field.

Si.
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In Great Britain, back in the late '70s & early '80s ...
... the 27MHz band generally, was totally RAMMED FULL of garbage, junk & ...



... INTERFERENCE !



The vast majority of which, was NOT caused by people using R.C. equipment ...
... but mostly by illegally operated 27MHz AM C.B. radios !!


Following the release of Sam Peckinpahs worst, but nevertheless CULT movie 'Convoy' ...
... C.B. radios imported from the States, were in great demand !

Many of these were supposedly brought back from the U.S. by 'enthusiasts' ...
... who probably just got back from a 'Freddie Laker' fly-drive holiday 'across the pond'.


The first thing most of these enthusiasts did when they got their new A.M. 'Midland' or 'Motorola' out of their suitcase ...
... was to whack up a whopping great big 18-foot antenna.
And if they possibly could, hook up a 100 Watt, or sometimes even BIGGER, linear-amplifier, or 'BURNER' as they used to call 'em ...
... and it was ...



... " Breaker, Breaker, this is The Duck ! ... do you copy Outer Mongolia ? !! "



Anyway ...
... 30 odd years later ... I had a nose around on the 27MHz band a short while back.

Using a pretty nice ICOM rapid-radio-scanner.
I checked out the entire 27MHz frequency.
Including AM, FM and Sidebands, over the course of a whole day.


Guess what I found on 27MHz these days ?





ABSOLUTELY





NOTHING !





:moose:





Si.





???







W C Greene
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Good points Helmut...but I have only 5 lokies now and run "lone wolf" so I only need one loco in operation at one time. I will, however, note that the only interference I had over the years was caused (evidently) by a bad flourescent light at a convention center where the modular club set-up. An N scale club blamed me for interference also but the real culprit was a Lionel layout next to us operated with a digital doo-dah and sound effects, etc. which caused their motorized mice to misbehave.
Well, that's my story and I'm living with it!
BTW-did you see the "wink, wink" in my post?

We'll have fun, fun, fun, till her daddy takes the T Bird away!
Woodie

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I demonstrate my radio control locos at shows and typically have two transmitters on at once. I have not had any problems with interference between the two systems, the way they operate is designed to be interference free so that is what I would expect.

Last December at the Manchester exhibition I was next to the "End of the line" layout which uses radio controlled vehicles. These use the same system as I use for the locos. Again, there were no problems.

I have also had no problems with WiFi systems when the locos are bound to the transmitters beforehand. The only problems I have had (and this is over four years of using radio control pretty well exclusively) is when binding a loco to a transmitter, I have found it does not work too well if close to a WiFi device - in this case, my computer which sits alongside my workbench. Simply moving further away solves the problem and once bound there is no problem at all.

Frank

Si.
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I was so impressed with the price of the 380mAh LiPo I found, for only £1.36p inc P&P ...

... that I decided to buy another one as well !


( I'm only chalking-up ONE on the £15 Quid budget though, OK ? )





So now I have TWO !  the same !!




I also had a bit of a further nose around, in the wonderful world of eBay.

Checking out all that CHINESE CRAP that some of you think I shouldn't be using !


It's ALL Chinese crap BTW guys ...

... The EXPENSIVE CRAP just gets a glitzy label stuck on it & they charge your VISA card more for it !


Mmm...


So I ended up with a 3rd LiPo battery as well.

31x20x7mm in size ( photo later ! ... ;) )


Cheapest I could find this one for as a 'buy it now' was £2.10p

Mmm ... a bit expensive !

So I held out, and went for an AUCTION on the same battery !!


BINGO !


Got the 250mAh LiPo for only £1.20p inc P&P :bg:


N  I  C  E  !


:brill:


Si.

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.......and the postage was?

Helmut
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Well Tony,
Hubsan Walkera also is Chinese stuff and you get 6off 3.7V@380mAh w/ loader for 12.29€ including P&P  here in Germany.
@Si how's that?

Last edited on Wed Apr 26th, 2017 07:05 pm by Helmut

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" .......and the postage was? "


Hi Tony :wave:


Included.


250mAh £1.20 inc. P&P


380mAh £1.36p inc. P&P


:brill:


Si.

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" Si how's that? "


Hi Helmut :wave:


Not bad !

You're getting the hang of this buying cheap crap operation !! ;)


I did see the all-in-one 4,5, or 6 batteries + charger deals.

Pretty good, I think, I'll do the maths on it.


Doesn't look as good as £1.36p inc. P&P each though.


I have actually bought a 'proper' charger also.

I was gonna do a benchtop 'lash up' on that, to save £0.99p or so.

But thought, hey ! this is 'proper stuff', gonna need a PROPER charger.


Chargers next . . .


:moose:


Si.


Dave the postman hurled the 1st 380mAh battery at me on Saturday morning !

Looks in nice shape, and has what seems like a 'healthy' 3.98 Volts on it. :bg:

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A further 'slow trickle' ;) of R.C. components, has been arriving at Mysterious Moose Mountain H.Q.

My 2nd 380mAh £1.36p inc. P&P LiPo battery arrived today. :cool:

So did my new LiPo battery charger, more on that  l  a  t  e  r  .  .  .


- - - - - - -


In looking at all the possible options for the project, one thing was paramount ...

... COST !

AND high-quality !!

It seems to me that economy AND quality, are easily achievable TOGETHER, no problem.



I might come back and describe another option I came up with also.

But I do have an R.C. receiver winging it's way to me at this very moment.



I went for a 'modular' approach, rather than an 'all on 1 board' scenario.

This will allow easy & cheap 'swop-out' of any individual failed components, in that unlikely event.



I looked at 27MHz AM/FM, 40MHZ, 35MHZ (I think ?) & a couple of others as well.

The overwhelming conclusion I came to, was that a 2.4GHz system, was by far the most economical & easily available.



It was not possible, despite a lot of looking, at both new & 2nd hand R.C. gear ...

... to buy ANY receiver, as far as I can tell, that is cheaper than this one  .  .  .















Easy to get from tons of suppliers.

No soldering required, although pins CAN of course be soldered to if needed.

Probably easy to remove the plastic case, for an even more compact board.


And of course cheap !  .  .  .  VERY CHEAP !!


£3.84p inc. P&P


It's not actually possible to get a whole pint of beer for that these days. :f:


( they can also be bought as a Rx. & Tx. 'FlySky' twin-set, for around £20 inc. P&P )



:brill:



Si.



More  s  o  o  n  .  .  .

Helmut
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Well...
now you need an additional full-bridge controller for brushed motors ( nowadays not that easy to find in small size ) plus, in case you want some effects, another controller for on-off outputs. Lots of space if you're in 1:35.... Those R/C jacks aren't that space-saving either.

Si.
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Hi Helmut :wave:

Thanks for your encouragement ! ;)


2 VERY-compact & VERY-cheap E.S.C.s will be arriving here soon. :cool:


I'll probably save the 'effects' for when I get the $1000 loco. :shocked:


The plastic receiver-casing & R.C. connectors will most likely get binned & replaced by a custom installation.


It won't fit in my N-scale 0-6-0T though. :f:

Maybe one day something that small might be possible  .  .  .  maybe  .  .  .



:moose:



Si.



" We don't tolerate failure at  S.P.E.C.T.R.E  Mr. Bond ! "



:w:



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What kind/size of jacks/plugs do you use on that receiver?  What kind of transmitter will you be using?  Inquiring minds want to know.  You're keeping me in suspense.

I have a couple of 3.7v LiPos and a voltage booster that I've picked up along the way.  Maling everything fit inside a loco seems to be a challenge.

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Hi Michael :wave:



There's the 'FlySky' 2.4 GHz high-quality frequency-hopping FS-GT2E transmitter. :cool:

It comes in a twin-pack, with a receiver included.

You can find the 'twin-pack' listed on eBay for around $20 inc. P&P. :bg:



The connector pins on the receiver are of a standard 0.1" pitch.

They are used in 3s, with a 3-way cable-socket.

They can be easily bought, or even got sometimes from the inside of scrap computers etc.


However an E.S.C. ( electronic speed controller ) often comes with a number of connectors already wired to it.

From left to right ...

0.1" pitch 3-pin receiver plug.

On/Off switch.

Motor Connector.

Battery connector.





You may wish to shorten the wires, or use different connectors ...

... but it is essentially 'Plug & Play' as it stands.


The only change that is really needed to run a loco from 1 battery ...

... is to simply 'splice-in' your 'DC-DC 9 Volt step-up regulator', in the battery line.


:brill:


Si.


I bought the one in the photo for ... £2.54p inc. P&P :bg:

The main-board is about 20x20mm if I remember right.

Can't say fairer than that Guv. ! :P

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Si,

I still want to see your shopping list for all of the parts.  What transmitter do you use with that tiny receiver?

I was thinking of picking up one of the small R/C tanks that come with two speeds for about $12 to install in my new railbus that I'm starting to work on.

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" I was thinking of picking up one of the small R/C tanks that come with two speeds for about $12 to install in my new railbus "



Hi Michael :Salute:


The mind boggles !


Sometimes even I am lost for words  ;)  .  .  .






:shocked:


Si.


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That'll work for me.  Wonder if I can make the canon really fire.

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" I still want to see your shopping list for all of the parts.  What transmitter do you use with that tiny receiver? "



Hi Michael :wave:



When I decided to have a go at R.C. I wanted to find an economical & workable solution.

I thought that a 'decent' workable solution, might be possible for about £15.

This was when I was still looking at a certain type of car/transmitter, to use for parts.



Having made the decision to go for a 'modular' system, rather than 'on one board', I needed a cheap transmitter.

I actually bought a 2.4GHz transmitter recently, for £0.99p + £3.45p P&P.

I could not resist it at the price, as it also looked simple & ideal for 'customization'.

Whether it will work with the receiver I have ordered, is as yet unknown.

Also, for most people, the option of picking up a transmitter for this price, is pretty minimal.



In deciding not to go for the initial 'cheap car' option, my budget 'realistically' possibly went up by about £10.

If the transmitter I have works OK, then I am 'on budget' to do the lot for £15.

If the transmitter I have doesn't work OK, then I will need to get the 'FlySky' transmitter.

This means my budget will increase, to an 'all in' price of around £25.



The setup will still be 'modular', so any toasted-parts can be easily & cheaply replaced.

Also the 'availability' of parts is important as well.

The 'FlySky' TX. & Rx. is not only very cheap at less than £20 inc. P&P, but very widely available.



I thought I would slowly but surely, document my 'economy system' for those who may be interested.

One thing I aint, is QUICK !

Spare time, other models to be made etc. etc. means this isn't 'a race' for me.

I would just like to come to the cheapest & highest-quality solution that I can reasonably find.



£15 or perhaps more realistically £25 spent, is an encouragement to those who might not want to spend 'the big bucks'.

Since I am still waiting for many parts to arrive, it is obviously hard to recommend anything.

Although what I have speced. is not 'rocket science' & is essentially tried & tested R.C. practice.



The bottom-line for this project, will however, always be quality AND cost !

Moose Mountain money, goes on modeling materials, NOT microchips !! ;)



:moose:



Si.



This is the transmitter that 'went for a song'. ;)

I have it here & have had a good 'nose around' inside it ! :shocked:





This is the 2.4 GHz 'FlySky' frequency-hopping transmitter & receiver twin-set, available for $20 inc. P&P on eBay.





:thumb:


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Nice summation, but I think you forgot to take into account that for that receiver you need an additional 5V-supply or BEC, as it needs at least 4.8V, not exceeding 6V ( This is the standard R/C spec. ). Normally the speed-controller's logic takes its supply from the receiver, so that BEC must be able to supply both. Not a great issue, but to be kept in mind.
When I was still in 1:20 Outdoor Railroading, all my BPRC locos were equipped with components similar to Si's listings. You just have the room there for all that modularity, which I doubt will be available in 1:35.
May I also humbly remark that for RR puroses, those car transmitters are almost unusable in their 'as-is' form? The trigger-type speed control doesn't work so well with locos, when you want some more than on-off operation. Forward and reverse swings are different and do not give the same speed range. The spring-loaded centered steering wheel is a wee bit better, but still you have only some 30..45° degrees of control adjustment.

Last edited on Thu May 11th, 2017 11:13 am by Helmut

Si.
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Hi Helmut :wave:



The 5 Volt logic-supply, is made by the E.S.C.s that I have speced.



So ... inside the loco, there needs to be :-

Receiver.

Electronic Speed Controller.

Battery.

DC-DC 9 Volt step-up regulator.



The parts should easily fit in the 1:35n2 Plymouth ... I think.

The R.C.ing business is generally a 'shoehorning' operation, I have noticed.

Unless of course you are doing perhaps 'O' or 'G' standard-gauge, or have huge tenders etc.



I have both a 'fixed' & 'adjustable' DC-DC step-up regulator coming.

Both extremely small.

More on these soon.

One cost £0.57p inc. P&P

The other £1.28 inc. P&P



:moose:



Si.

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" for RR puroses, those car transmitters are almost unusable in their 'as-is' form?
The trigger-type speed control doesn't work so well with locos, when you want some more than on-off operation.
Forward and reverse swings are different and do not give the same speed range.
The spring-loaded centered steering wheel is a wee bit better,
but still you have only some 30..45° degrees of control adjustment."



Hi again Helmut :wave:



Sounds like I might as well just give up then ...

... and simply go back to using my reliable, cheap & easy to wire-up, Tri-ang resistance-controller.



Maybe I should get out, while the going is good ...

... I've only wasted £15 so far.

Perhaps I could sell the parts on eBay & not loose too much money ?



:f:



Si.






W C Greene
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Gee, I didn't know that the "r/c car" pistol transmitters don't control locos properly. I guess that I will need to get rid of the two I have been using for 15 years or so and find something "more appropriate". I have believed that they worked pretty well all this time but what do I know anyway?
Hmmm, since I am on social security, I imagine that I will have to keep things as is and have fun running my antique trains with my caveman equipment.
Now, is anyone willing to front me the money to buy the latest toys?

Troublesome Outlaw Woodie

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This is why I ask the experts to save myself a lot of frustration. 

I'll check out the FlySky

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Is this what you had in mind?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flysky-FS-GT2B-2-4G-3CH-Transmitter-W-Battery-GR3E-Receiver-Radio-System-For-RC-/322163477666?hash=item4b02708ca2:g:39AAAOSwoBtW341m

Si.
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Hi Michael :wave:


Yes it is, more or less.


I couldn't work out the shipping cost on your link, cos I didn't have a U.S. zip-code handy.

But, shipping was extra, & it seems like there are things in the deal you don't need, like a battery for example.

It did look to be coming from New York though, so might be worth a few bucks extra for speed.


I just very quickly found this one, which is in fact I think what I was looking at a few days ago.

FlySky Tx. & Rx. Twin-Set - $24.15c inc. P&P

This one doesn't include any extras, like batteries etc.


It is also a 2-channel transmitter, not a 3-channel like your link.

The cheap Flysky receivers, all seem to be 3-channel ones.

The difference appears to be, you either get a 2 or 3 channel transmitter.

The receiver will either operate as a 2 or 3 channel, depending on what is controlling it.


I didn't enter any specific code-numbers & stuff like that to search for it.

I just used the search-term 'FlySky Transmitter Receiver' ...

... and 'worldwide listings' then 'cheapest inc. P&P first'.


I found one the other day for about £19 U.K. pounds inc. P&P



:thumb:



Si.



When I find my £0.99p transmitter don't do $4!7 ... I'll probably have to buy one ! ;)


Si.
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Hi again Michael :wave:


You may already know the answer to this.

But just a quick thought.


Perhaps that battery in your link is for the transmitter.

The deal came with what looked like a USB cable as well.


I was fairly sure that the one I was looking at, was powered by a 9 Volt, or some AAs.

Might be worth checking on that, for your favored battery type.


:bg:


Si.

 

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The transmitter is powered by a 1S LiPo 3.7V. This is an advantage over earlier models, where the internal supply was 5V and so they had 6 or 8 1.5Vcells to operate it. ( They used standard 7805's to provide the logic's supply! ) A lot of useful energy was wasted this way. Nowadays all that internal stuff works on 3...3.3V, and the overall efficiency is higher - the battery lasts longer.
The receiver is tailored to operate off 5(-0.2/+1)V, because NiMHs are still standard in the R/C world.

Last edited on Sun May 14th, 2017 04:30 pm by Helmut

Si.
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This kind of information is exactly why I wanna keep Helmut on wages.

Don't worry Helmut ... The cheque is in the mail. ;)



I must say that those ol' 7805 3-pin regulators, are def. yesterdays tech.

Probably worth spending a few dollars more, for a 3.3 Volt microchip Tx. & battery.



:moose:



Si.



Helmut would hate my RED HOT vacuum-tube dropper-resistors ! :shocked:

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Si

A couple of comments

First, why do you have to control more than one loco at a time. I know that you come from the "instant decision" world of model car racing--but choo-choo's aren't like that.

Unless your racing trains. Put a discrete on off switch somewhere on the loco. You will need that anyway, or else you will be buying a lot of batteries. When the engineer (you) jumps down from the cab to change locos turn the switch off and turn the one on the second loco on, and do your thing. Just ONE frequency involved for the whole railroad.

There have been a couple times, that if a board were in two pieces, it would have made an installation a lot easier. I even considered sawing a board in half, to make things easier one time. Semi-rational thought came back just in time to prevent the almost surety of turning the whole thing into a dogs breakfast. Plus, Gromit said that he wasn't gona eat it anyway 

Herb

W C Greene
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Herb has it right, all I really need is one transmit crystal and several receiver crystals (same freqs) since I seem to not have "ops sessions" with anybody else these days. Of course, all my stuff is old timey analog 27MHZ and I like it that way (so does my pocketbook). For me, the "ultimate" on/off switch would be the good old magnetic reed switches. Just pass the magnet across to run or not. But once again, the old Radio Shack sub miniature switches will have to do, they have been working for many years anyway.
But cutting boards in half? Shirley, you jest! Just don't call me Shirley......

Woodie

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??? . . . L: . . . :us: . . . :dope:


I'm not sure how it works.

I bought it cos I liked the colour & have loads of black 'wall warts' already.

You plug it into a 5 Volt OOOSB socket, via the included lead.

It has 6 battery sockets & 6 red LEDs.


I guess it's a trickle-charger :slow: ?

Does it switch off when the jobs done ?

Do the lights go OFF when the battery/ies are charged ?

Do the lights change individually, if say you charge both a large & small battery at the same time ?



:mex:



Si.



The design & marketing boys dun me on this one ...

... I payed £0.65p more than I needed to, cos I thought a green one looked :cool: !


Si.
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Thanks very much Herb & Woodie BTW.

The simple easy access on/off switch on a loco would be fine.

My idea is that if 2 locos are being operated at once ...

... one would be D.C. and the other R.C. anyhow.

I like the idea of a R.C. switcher being able to operate around a yard ...

... without bothering a D.C. loco that has arrived with cars, for example.


- - - - - - -


Another question.

E.S.C.s for cars, are available with/without a 'brake' function.

I don't quite understand what the 'brake' function is.

Could a loco operate with BOTH types of E.S.C ?

Or is it best to have either a 'brake' or 'no brake' E.S.C ?


:moose:


Si.


I guess the 'brake' function, loads the armature on deceleration ...

... same as a slotcar throttle with a 'brake' function.

I figure in practice, this affects a generally fairly slow-moving loco, very little.

So either should be OK. L:

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@Si
ESCs with dynamic braking are only suitable for electric racing cars and not for worm-gear locos. A sudden stop by short-circuiting the motor ( which is mostly the case, only the most sophisiticated controllers for 1:4 cars etc. offer gradual braking ) can cause gear tooth caries.

Si.
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OH I SEE ! :dope:

( That's what my Yamaha hard-disc recorder says, when it KNOWS you've been an IDIOT ! ) ;)



Thanks very much Helmut :bow:

Yes, a slotcar doesn't have a worm-gear & there is a lot of potential slippage/skidding.

I always knew there was a good reason my Dad said ...

... never to throw the reversing switch, when my Tri-ang 'Dock Authority' was at full throttle ! ;)



I did for some reason order 2 ESCs, one with & one without a 'brake'.

I think the 'brake' one may well have a brake on/off switch on it though ...

... but again, the £2.54p I paid, obviously didn't cover the cost of printing instructions, other than in CHINESE !

Perhaps I can use the 'brake' one, in a gearhead motored loco. L:



Another $0.05c cheque is in the mail Helmut. :thumb:



:moose:



Si.



I actually have all my parts now ! :bg:

I should have ordered some battery connectors though, as I don't have any at the moment. :f:

Si.
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Hi Guys :wave:



In looking at the battery connector situation & finding some to buy ...

... I have only just realized that the female cable-socket on my LiPos does not fit the male cable-plug on my 2 ESCs. :f:



The female cable-socket on the LiPos seems to be 'standard', with 2 small side-wings, as is the charger chassis-plug.



I really need to buy some matching male cable-plugs, to connect to the LiPos.

Does anyone know the name of the 'standard' LiPo/charger  socket/plug  connector ?

I have searched quite a bit & don't seem to see them coming up among battery connectors.



For other various connections, I think I am going to go with the 1.25mm pitch Molex micro-blade.

It seems easily available, whilst the marginally smaller 1.00mm less so.

The 2.00mm series seems fairly easy to get as well.

Mmm...



The correct name & finding the battery connectors, has me stumped at the moment ! :f:

Is the LiPo/charger connector generally called a 'LOSI micro' ? L:

Ah ! ... It seems to be called a 'JST micro 2.00' ( I think ).



Si.



It's nice to see most of the parts on the bench anyhow.

Their relative size can now be seen alongside a number of locos I have.

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Si,

I kinda ran into the same problem.  It seemed that everyone used a different style or size connector and there wasn't any kind of 'standard'.  Someone here recommended the JST 1.25 connectors and so that's what I've been using on everything.  It just seemed to make life easier rather than worrying which connector a LiPo/charger/circuit board had.  I just buy what I need knowing I'm going to change the connector anyway.  There are bigger things to worry about such as which loco to convert to RC next.

W C Greene
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Si, the "standard name" (at least here in the US) is JST PLUGS. I don't know what that means but that is what r/c guys call them and you could walk into a hobby store and ask for them. Now, I have seen "Mini" and "micro" JST plugs but the regular ones that come on Li Pos, etc. are just JST. Corn-fusing? Hell yes.
That's why I get rid of the damn things and solder on MINIATRONICS 2 PIN MICRO PLUGS. These work well, are very small and once again, I have used them for many years. No, they ain't real cheap but YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

Mi dos centavos...
WCG

Si.
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Howdy Woodie :cb:



It was a bit of a long slog ...

... but EVENTUALLY the LiPo connectors were found.



There does seem to be some confusion over the 'proper' name for some of these things.

I saw a number of eBay listings which were contradictory & basically WRONG.



The connector on my LiPos ( with the 2 side-wings ) & charger is called a ...

'LOSI micro T 2.0'

or

'Walkera micro 2.0'

They should be found eventually on eBay, using these search-terms.

The 'side-wings' confirm that the connector is correct, as I see no other connectors that have them.

I found a deal on 10x wired plugs & 10x wired sockets, for £1.26p inc. P&P

Also 10x plug & 10x socket shells with crimps, for £2.08p inc. P&P

I did have to search rather hard to find a good deal, as these connectors do seem to go for some dough.



I also got some JST 1.25mm pitch wired plugs & sockets as well.

These are I believe are also sometimes known as Molex micro-blades'.

This type of connector is used by Bachmann & Hornby a lot, so I discovered.

These are EASY to find & very cheap indeed.

You can get JST 1.25mm shells with crimps, but do they look tiny ? ... Yep !



I was impatient on the JST 1.25 ones & actually flashed some cash for a bunch next day.

The LOSI/Walkera 2.0 ones are coming from Ying Ping Jing Pong Provence & could take a while to get here.

However I only need 1 per loco/installation, whereas the JST 1.25mm ones, I will use for LEDs, motors & the cigar lighter !

Meanwhile I can 'bodge' the battery hook up ...

... no sweat. I've got a fire-extinguisher & asbestos underwear ! ;)



:moose:



Si.



Need some other jazz, like really small heatshrink-tubing ...

... but basically, I have got all the parts ! :bg:

Now to get down to busting & burning 'em out !! :shocked: ;)


Si.
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Here's the link to the LiPo & charger, sockets & plugs, at a very good price ...

... £1.26p inc. P&P for 10x wired sockets & 10x wired plugs.


LOSI micro T 2.0 / Walkera micro 2.0


They are the ones needed to connect with this type of LiPo & charger connector.





:brill:


Si.


fallen
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The JST 1.25 AKA Molex is commonly used for battery connectors too, the ones with the connector mounted on the battery for example. See for example
http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/lipo_um.html

Be careful though, this pattern of connector comes in various sizes and they are all described as JST!

I have tried the do-it-yourself crimped ones, I got about half connected, the others just broke in the process, you need the proper and expensive crimp tool for this to work well. The ones with wires attached are best if you don't have the tool.

Frank

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Those who know how to solder might try this variant ( from the same website )

fallen
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Those are very useful and easy enough to solder, it's the connector that plugs into that one that I found difficult.

http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/images/gen/micron/mrc-molex-3pin-conn-5pk_500.jpg

This one crimps together and needs the proper tool. It's a lot easier to buy the ready wired version, eg.

http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/images/gen/micron/mrc-molex-2pin-extlead-75mm_500.jpg


Frank

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The Molex and JST connectors are not interchangeable, even if they can be connected with some fiddling. Even Wikipedia notes that JST-GH is sometimes confused with Molex Picoblade.
I use eFlite 150 and 70 mAH batteries, they have Molex connectors. The connectors with pins (blades) are not too difficult to solder wires onto, the sockets are near impossible (for me) so I buy them with wires when I need them.

https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=15134-0201

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JST_connector

Last edited on Mon May 22nd, 2017 06:28 pm by bobquincy

Si.
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Hi Guys :wave:


Thanks for the info.


My JST-GH 1.25mm pitch wired plug/socket connectors arrived.

I can't say that I'm exactly overjoyed about them ...

... which I had a feeling would be the case.


I would like to really use 24awg cable.


I may well investigate the 2.00mm pitch JST-PA series ...

... I don't particularly want a 'locking' connector either.


My preferred connector pitch has always been 0.1" or 2.54mm

I use both standard MOLEX and one called AMP-MODU already.

They are somewhat largish, I can easily hand-crimp the terminals though.


The principle problem with soldering a flexible wire connector, is the copper becomes easy to break at the join.

The second problem is that most of the connectors can't take heat at all well.

If you want one that can, go for something made from glass-reinforced plastic.


I would however use the JST-GH 1.25mm for LED headlamps perhaps ...

... so they probably won't go to waste.


I may well check out the Miniatronics-micro as well.

I would like to just 'standardize' on this & then forget about it, so a good decision is needed.

I may even just stick to the 0.1" systems I already use for various audio stuff.


L:


Si.


The LiPo connector will be the 'standard' LOSI Micro-T 2.0 for sure  .  .  .

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For the uninitiated, like me, does it really make a lot of difference which type of connector you use?

fallen
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Michael,

The main thing is that you need the right connector for the batteries you are using. As there are several different but apparently similar connectors, you need to make sure you have the right one. Best thing is to get the batteries and connectors from the same supplier.

I use the same connector for the battery and for a charging connector, that way there is only one type to worry about.

Frank

Si.
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Hi Guys :wave:


Well ... The battery connectors I ordered finally arrived. :cool:




They fit the batteries & charger I have.

So I think I now have all the parts.


:!:


Si.


An update on the Plymouth to follow.

I saved $980 by buying the Model-Power, rather than the $1K loco.

So I figured that spending a few Bucks on an ultra-cool bespoke 1:35 body wouldn't melt the VISA !


Smallbrook Studios 1:35 'Blackbird'





:bg:


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Si,

Really like that Plymouth body.  Should turn out to be sweet looking loco.  Wish my budget could afford something like that.  Well, maybe later.

Ran across a 4-wheel 2-axle Camco Models HO wagon.  Was thinking it might have possibilities in 1/35.

Anyone know why European railroads often favored 4-wheel cars compared to the US where just about everything is 8-wheel even narrow gauge?

Si.
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Hi Guys :wave:



Although I started out with the idea of R.C.ing my Model-Power Plymouth, which may still happen ...

... I also have a few other options for my first R.C. loco.



I have done some basic assembly of the Smallbrook Studios 1:35 Plymouth resin-kit.

I measured the hood of the Model-Power Plymouth very carefully before ordering a number of R.C. components.

It was internally about 22mm wide & would easily fit eg. my new LiPo batteries.

Since getting the resin-kit however, because of the extra thickness of the resin-parts ...

... the internal width of the kit hood is LESS than 20mm. :f:

The stuff will still fit in, just a bit of a rethink is needed.



Also a dear friend of mine recently gave me a Bachmann HO G.E. 44 Ton mechanism.

This is a lovely running chassis with side-rods, but visually a bit on the small side for 1:35n2.

I know this is probably a MASSIVE CHEAT ... :shocked:

... but it would fit a modded Smallbrook Studios Plymouth & would be 100% invisible under the very low axle-boxes etc.

It is very very tempting to consider using this very nice mech. in the resin-kit.



I have also been slowly building a tender for my now modded to 0-4-0 Bachmann 0-4-2 Porter.

The idea being that this engine might well be better as my first R.C. loco.

Decisions, decisions  .  .  .



I was a bit hard on the JST 1.25 connectors.

I have messed with them a bit & am coming to accept them a bit more than at first.

The wire is still way way thinner though, than all the other wires on eg. the E.S.C board etc.

Mmm ...



:moose:



Si.



I never said I was QUICK !



Possible antenna question, for all you experts, coming up as well  .  .  .

Later  .  .  .





:bg:

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I'm by no means an expert but when I put RC in my Plymouth the antenna was only about 2 inches long.  I haven't experienced any trouble with the signal so far.  The RC car for my rail truck has a much longer antenna, about 10 inches long, so I'll have to come up with a new solution there.

It's surprising how room under the hood for RC electronics gets filled up so quickly.

That resin kit is a beauty!

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If we assume the standard 1/4 wavelength antenna, then 1.25cm or 1/2" is all length you need with 2.4GHz

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Very nice!  I've got a few HO Plymouths; wonder if I can build something like yours in 1/35 scale?

W C Greene
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DEE-LIGHT-FUL!!!

Woodie

Si.
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My stash of R.C. funky junk !





To the Batmobile Robin !!  .   .    .



:Crazy:



Si.



Wish me luck ... The burn-cream is on standby & the air-ambulance landing area cleared ! :shocked:

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Following Daves question in another Thread, about my 'FlySky' R.C. component sizes ...

... I thought I'd put up the basic measurements of my R.C. parts, which may be of interest.



- - - - - - -



'FlySky' 2.4 GHz receiver.



The 'FlySky' receiver comes in an easily removed, screwed together plastic housing.

Removing the circuit-board is as quick as taking out the 2 small screws on the back.

Since 'naked boards' are the R.C. 'norm' for space saving ... My plastic housing is HISTORY !


I also intend to remove the fairly bulky 0.1" pitch connectors & simply solder on 'flying leads'.

With these slight mods. to the basic product, the 'naked board' dimensions are ...

... 20mm x 32mm x 6mm


Some photos of the basic P.C.B to follow.



- - - - - - -



E.S.C. electronic speed controller 10-Amps.



The E.S.C. comes with PLENTY long enough flying-leads already soldered to the board.

The 'naked board' dimensions are ...

... 23mm x 24mm x 7mm



- - - - - - -



DC-DC 'step-up regulator' 9-Volts.



I more or less have TWO different power options for my R.C. installs.


1. Use a single 3.7-Volt LiPo battery & the above ^ 9-Volt 'step-up regulator'.

2. Use a pair of 3.7-Volt LiPo batteries & no 'step-up regulator'.


I haven't chosen which yet, I will probably decide, based on the dimensions of the loco.

The 'naked board' dimensions are ...

... 15mm x 23mm x 6mm



- - - - - - -



LiPo battery 3.7-Volts, 380mAh.



I bought 2 of these batteries to check out.

Basically I got this size since the 20mm width fitted my original Plymouth hood & other voids in the loco.


It looks like my first R.C. install may well be my Porter however.

This particular size battery may well in fact suit other possible future R.C. installs for me also.


The battery dimensions are ...

... 20mm x 39mm x 8mm



- - - - - - -



It is possible to put together a high-quality 2.4 GHz frequency-hopping R.C. system affordably.

All my components were bought from eBay listings, for the following prices :-


Receiver - £3.84p inc. P&P

E.S.C. - £2.54p inc. P&P

Regulator - £0.64p inc. P&P

Battery - £1.36p inc. P&P



:!:



Si.



I had thought about starting another Thread to 'specifically' describe my Porter R.C. installation.

But have decided to keep on with this Thread, for ALL my R.C. ramblings.


I'm going to 'edit' stuff in this Thread as I go, hoping to stay very much 'On Topic' ...

... & trying to focus ONLY on my 'FlySky' related R.C. projects & components.


As you guys all know, I'm not an   " OFF TOPIC ! "   shouting kinda guy.

But I think there is sometimes a need in more 'technical' based Threads ...

... to keep to the subject, as I'm sure it helps in understanding stuff.


:)

Michael M
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Si,

Any information you post about RC is extremely helpful for me.

I'm currently working on another Plymouth conversion to BPRC using much smaller components than before.  It's looking very promising and I'll post a few photos once I make a little more progress.

Thanks! :2t:



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