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Need help with Santa Fe 8020 motor
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 Posted: Sat Aug 26th, 2017 04:43 pm
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George Ruthven
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Hi,
my first post a few minutes ago but lost when I clicked on the G icon to post the pics. Now I'll 1st post the pics then chat.


Attachment: Santa Fe1.jpg (Downloaded 37 times)



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 Posted: Sat Aug 26th, 2017 04:53 pm
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George Ruthven
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Ok here goes my 2nd pic.
I'am new and bought 2nd hand track and via opportunity found 2 trains on ebay a Lionel Rock island loco and a Santa Fe 8020 that my son-in-law brought on his return.
I'am lost with the Santa Fe motor. I'am a retired mech eng so electronics (yes I'am doing BPRC) is a nice way of getting the grey matter going again - just. All for my grandson of 3 1/2 and he's taken to it like a duck to water. Loves the Lionel Rock Island loco which goes very well with a RC car remote and receiver installed.
But I cannot get the Santa Fe motor to turn. There seems to be a coil that needs to be powered for the surround fixed magnet and then the rotor needs to be powered. Have tried 9 and 18V DC on both but nothing.
Pse help with advice and also is it a good idea to replace it with a separate DC motor? The gears all work very well if turned by hand.
Thks in advance
George

Attachment: Santa Fe2.jpg (Downloaded 37 times)



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 Posted: Sat Aug 26th, 2017 06:15 pm
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Helmut
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The stator and rotor - that is the coil for the magnet and the rotating assy. - have to be wired in series in order to make that motor turn. Check first if the coil is operational by measuring its resistance between the red and green wires, same for the rotor by checking the brush connections. Anything between 4 and 20 Ohms should be OK ( twist the rotor with your fingers when checking ). Then wire it up for testing. For final operation, the coil has to be connected via a bridge rectifier for the motor to run forward and backward. But that's for later, tell us your findings.

Attachment: LIONEL.jpg (Downloaded 36 times)

Last edited on Sat Aug 26th, 2017 07:13 pm by Helmut



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 Posted: Sat Aug 26th, 2017 06:20 pm
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George Ruthven
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Thks!!  Will do in the morning it's to bed now.
:Salute:



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 Posted: Sun Aug 27th, 2017 09:25 am
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George Ruthven
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Helmut,
the pic is exactly as per your drawing. I see the twirled red and green goes to the one brush and the black wire the other brush which I assume makes the in series with the stator. So I put first 6V then 18V to the black wire (-) and put the 2 thick reds together (+) and I can see a spark but nothing happens. The ohms reading is 4.4 for the stator and 3.5 for the rotor. I turn the rotor by hand under power but also nothing.
What's next?
Many many thks,
George

Attachment: Santa Fe3.jpg (Downloaded 28 times)



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 Posted: Sun Aug 27th, 2017 10:43 am
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George Ruthven
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Helmut,
our local forum member said it looks like an AC motor which was prevalent way back. So I tapped Youtube to run an AC motor with DC and it's as easy as coupling the rotor and stator in parallel - and voila it runs:2t:.
So it's an AC motor but what I do not understand is it will run on 6V (4xAA) but not 9V or 18V - why would that be? Maybe battery type?
And of course it's very slow. I'am waiting for some 2S Lipo's but 7.4V will surely not improve the speed? (I have a voltage booster also on it's way)
I don't think it's a problem to find a suitable DC motor locally but it's going to be painful to marry the output shaft with the screw drive (from past experience).
Any suggestion as to how to go further to get the speed up and to do fwd and reverse pse?
Thks, George



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 Posted: Sun Aug 27th, 2017 12:32 pm
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Helmut
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The two red wires must never be connected together, as they would cancel out the magnetic field needed to make the motor turn. It's either one connected to say +, and the black one to -. The motor will then turn either way. Of course the motor will run off 9V or higher, provided you hook it up correctly.
Do not run rotor ( armature) and stator connected in parallel ( How did you manage that, BTW? ), the current draw will drain your battery quickly, and you risk to burn out the stator ( magnet ) coil. Better have a look here first to understand the principle of this motor.


Attachment: LIONEL.jpg (Downloaded 27 times)

Last edited on Sun Aug 27th, 2017 12:56 pm by Helmut



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 Posted: Sun Aug 27th, 2017 01:59 pm
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George Ruthven
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Helmut,
my crude wiring diagram but I know you'll see what I've done.
Firstly if I couple as per yr diagram I can just get the rotor to spin (only with help) but only a few rotations then stop only to go again with help. And only on 6V (actually 5.8). The 9V has zero effect. BUT when I wire as below it goes beautifully but again only at 5.8V. Zero reaction at 9V (8.8). It goes beautifully but slow compared to my Lima truck.
I am all ears???
George




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 Posted: Sun Aug 27th, 2017 04:58 pm
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Helmut
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This hookup is likely to damage the motor completely. You short out half of the magnet, and have the armature parallel to the remaining coil, which is in permanent danger to be overloaded.
What you describe is impossible for a motor of this type when it is sound and hooked up according to my schematic. Take out the brushes of the motor and measure the resistance between two adjacent segments of the armature for all segments. It must be equal within a few tenths of ohms. If that's not the case, then your armature is damaged . The motor will not start in all postions of the armature, and has to be replaced.



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 Posted: Sun Aug 27th, 2017 05:38 pm
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George Ruthven
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Thks Helmut I'll do so soonest.



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