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Bernd
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Ok, so after hearing about the supply problems of 'DelTang' and getting product from them
I decided to try out the 'FlySky' that Si. suggested in his post on the Tam Valley thread.


I've got the the Tx. and Rx. I also ordered an E.S.C. from E-bay.
Still awaiting for the battery and battery charger.


So, a question for Si.
The E.S.C. came without any instructions & I can't seem to find any on the Net by Googling.


The questions are :

What do the 2 switches do ?
One is on the circuit board, the other is wired in.

The 2 red & black wires, with the red connectors, which is which ?
I'm figuring one is for the battery, the other for the motor.
So, is the female-plug for the battery or the motor ?


Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.


Bernd


Si.
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Hi Bernd :wave:



I am actually messing about with those parts at the moment.

Including removing the 'FlySky' receivers plastic casing.



They need to fit in a Porter tender, under construction at present.





But before trimming any wires, or changing any connectors ...

... I decided that a 'spaghetti bench test' would be wise.



The 2 pairs of red & black wires emerging from the E.S.C. for the battery & motor are ...

... cable-plug is for the battery ...

... cable-socket is for the motor.



The 3-way white/red/black wires emerging from the E.S.C ...

... should be connected to the 'FlySky' receivers Channel-2, observing correct polarity.



The single pair of red/red wires emerging from the E.S.C. ...

... terminates in a cable mounted general on/off switch.



I actually don't know what the switch on the P.C.B. is for.

But it MAY be an on/off switch for a 'brake' function.

Which if true, will have little effect for trains on either setting.



When the stuff is wired on the bench, I'll flip it and see !



:!:



Si.



The battery & motor connectors will both be discarded, as they are quite large.

I might use the on/off switch perhaps.

The 3-way white/red/black cable-socket, may get cut off & wires soldered directly to the receiver.



At £3.84p inc. P&P for the 'Flysky' receiver ...

... & only £2.54p inc. P&P for the E.S.C. ...

... experimentation is a low-cost risk !





Si.
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There is some more about the 'FlySky' and E.S.C. here :-



Dr. StrangeLiPo ... or How I Learned To Stop Worrying & Love The Battery !
The Rent Went Up On My 5th Avenue Penthouse ...
... So I Had To R.C. My Model-Power Plymouth For £15 Quid !



:brill:



Si.






W C Greene
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Si, glad to see that this thread is about wiring the board...
I first thought that somebody was trying to sell the damn thing here
in which case I would need to fire up the "delete topic" key.

You gots some 'splainin to do Lucy!

WCG

Michael M
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I've got all the 'FlySky' parts needed to convert my Bachmann Shay except for one thing ... a round tuit.

Maybe you'll get some more converts on BPRC the inexpensive way.

Bernd
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Michael M wrote: I've got all the parts needed to convert my Bachmann Shay except for one thing...a round tuit.

Maybe you'll get some more converts on BPRC the inexpensive way.

First for Michael M a Round Tuit.




When I was on a machining forum I used to say that I'd get a round to it so much one of the members cast a Round Tuit in aluminum for me.

Bernd

Bernd
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Si. wrote:Hi Bernd :wave:


I am actually messing about with those parts at the moment.

Including removing the 'FlySky' receivers plastic casing.


Same here. Still waiting for the batteries.
I'm installing one in an HO old Blue Box Atheran F7 A & B.
The battery pack is a N/MHi 6 volt battery pack.


Thanks for the answer to what wires are what, I knew the three wires go to the receiver.
Was confused as to the other two with the cable plug and socket.
I figured that the switches are as you say. Just needed to confirm that. Thanks.
Going to do the same with the connectors.


One thing that doesn't seem clear is the binding plug.
On the PDF instruction sheet on this system it shows the binding plug plugged into where the battery power should be plugged into.
What's your take on that?


Bernd


Si.
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Hi Guys :wave:



Just to let you know how much I spent on my R.C. kit :- L:



'FlySky' FS-GT2E Transmitter & receiver twin-pack - eBay $20 inc. P&P

'FlySky' additional receivers only - eBay $5 inc. P&P

E.S.C. 10-Amps. - eBay $3 inc. P&P



So you can get the basic TX. RX. & ESC. parts all in for about $23 inc. P&P :shocked:



Just add the battery of YOUR choice, mine I think were a couple of 380mA LiPos at about a Buck fifty a piece on eBay inc. P&P

A 6-port LiPo battery charger cost me another $1.25 inc. P&P on eBay.

Plus I also bought a high quality and efficient 9-Volt 'step-up regulator' two for $1 inc. P&P



No overdraft or VISA card meltdown was experienced by this R.C. customer. :cool:



:old dude:



Si.



P.S. For those who simply just can't separate the 2 concepts of 'cheap' & 'high-quality' ...

... just think of the blood-pressure lowering word 'affordable' ! ;)



This is a mega-mooodern 2.4 GHz transmitter/receiver specification ...

... with full frequency-hopping technology, for essentially ZERO interference ... EVER ! :shocked:



The transmitter is a very nice build quality as well. :)

Smooth 'quality feel' mechanism, both forwards & backwards.

The 'ergonomics' of the design, is just about PERFECT.

EASY one handed operation, making coupling/uncoupling an absolute BREEZE ...

... without having to put the transmitter down, or use both hands to hold & operate it.








Measurements of the principle R.C. install components HERE :-

Dimensions Of The 'FlySky' Receiver, E.S.C. & Regulator














:!:

W C Greene
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The system looks OK to me but that "Capt. Kirk" phase pistol needs some fixin'.
My buddy Dave and I just got a couple of old analog 27MHZ 2 stick transmitters (just what we wanted) on fleabay for $30 for the pair.
Somebody had taken the battery contacts out and figured that "he" would scam a couple of old dudes.
We installed Li-Po batteries in them and they both work like "burnin' hell".
I was ready to build a new case for my old car transmitter but this satisfied me!
(I must be really old for a transmitter to satisfy me...or crazy!)

Woodie

Bernd
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W C Greene wrote: The system looks OK to me but that "Capt. Kirk" phase pistol needs some fixin'.

Woodie

Going to change that "Phaser" to something that will resemble the type of throttles we're used to using. L:   :brill:

Bernd

Si.
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It is of course the 'pot. in a box' approach, from Train-Sets that " we're used to using "

But why ?

Well, yes, it was easy enough, back in the day, to just bung a wirewound pot. in a box ...

... MUST be the right way to do it. :P



Bear in mind single handed operation for a 'walkaround' at all costs. L:

You won't regret it !

In fact WHY turn an innovative ergonomic dream, into a 'pot. in a box' at all ?



Oh IT IS a 'pot. in a box' Jim, but not as we know it !





NOT a 'pot. in a box'.

Mysterious Moose Mountains recent S.C.R throttle handset build.

NICE !



:moose:



Si.



Beam me up Scotty ! :shades:


Helmut
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As for 'Captain Kirk' style transmitters, you start with this:



and after a bit of tinkering:

Nortonville Phil
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Hello All


I too was inspired by Si's 'FlySky' info on the Tam Valley thread.


I already had an TX. and RX. so I just ordered a 10amp E.S.C. from E-bay.
It arrived from China a few days ago and looks just like the one you guys ordered, it came with instructions.


I hooked it all up on the bench on Friday and it works great.
I will now be back in the R.C. business.


I plan to put this in an O-scale switcher.
Oh, and the E.S.C. was cheap, only 4 dollars !
And the TX. and RX. I have, a friend gave me.


That is not much money to get going in R.C.



Bernd
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Phil,


If I understand this right the Receiver works at 3 to 6 volts
and your O-scale engine probably has a 12 volt motor, correct?


What voltage battery are you going to use?


Any chance you could copy and post the instructions of the receiver?


Bernd


Nortonville Phil
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Bernd,


The receiver I already had.

The E.S.C. I bought outputs a constant 5v to run the receiver
or at least that is what I have been told by my friend that is a airplane guy.
The ESC I have is similar.

I am using 3 cell batteries.


Si.
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" I too was inspired by Si's 'FlySky' info "

" I hooked it all up on the bench on Friday and it works great."



Hi Phil :wave:



AWESOME ! :bg:

I'm sure that rig will suit your new garden O-scale line a treat !! :cool:

Certainly can't argue with the price. :thumb:



:)



Si.



Yes, the E.S.C. provides the Receivers 5-Volts, through its 3-wire 0.1" cable-socket connection.

That particular 'small red' E.S.C.s maximum operating Voltage, is said to be 8.4 Volts.

I'm sure 9 Volts or thereabouts is probably OK.



If you happen to have a 9 Volt regulator like I do ...

... you could drop 1/2 a Volt with a appropriate diode if needed.



1 cell LiPo + a 9 Volt step-up regulator will work.

2 cell LiPo giving 7.4 Volts sans regulator will also work.



Good luck on the install Phil. :!:

Sounds  C:cool::cool:L


:)





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W C Greene wrote: The system looks OK to me but that "Capt. Kirk" phase pistol needs some fixin'. ...
I just got a couple of old analog 27MHZ 2 stick transmitters (just what we wanted).

Hi Woodie,

that's how I modified the sticks a bit to have a reliable 'OFF' position plus two functions ( like lights )


Attachment: 1900Jamara001.jpg (Downloaded 95 times)

Nortonville Phil
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Hi Si.


I hooked up my 3-cell LiPo battery to my E.S.C. and have tested it.
I realized yesterday that my E.S.C. is supposed to only be for a 2-cell battery.
It still seems to work though.
I don't know if I will burn it up, if I continue to mess with it.
I guess I need to get a 2-cell battery.


I have been reading on here about these 'DC-DC Converters' to step-up the battery Voltage.
I have been searching for info on the Forum about these.
But still have questions.
If I use a 12 Volt DC-DC step-up with a 2-cell battery, I guess that means that I can now vary the Voltage up to 12 Volts ?
Is there more info on these you can point me towards ?


Thanks.


Si.
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Hi Phil :wave:



Although MOST of our models, whatever the scale, are designed to operate on 12 Volts ...

... MOST of them will run like the 'Bullet Train' with the full amount of juice ! :shocked:

So.

In my opinion stepping-up to 12 Volts, in many cases, is not really needed.



For my stuff at least, everything I am likely to want to R.C. ...

... should run fine between 7.4 to 9.0 Volts maximum.

Giving respectively, the option of 2-LiPos & no regulator, OR 1-LiPo & a 9 Volt 'step-up regulator'.


L:


On your 3-cell battery situation Phil. :brill:

I bought two E.S.C.s, both the smallest & cheapest I could get on eBay, at about 3-4 Bucks a pop inc. P&P.

Of course there are LOADS of others available as well, very cheap also, just often a tad bigger in physical size.



The reason your E.S.C. hasn't BLOWN-UP  :shocked:  yet with an 11.1 Volt 3-cell battery ...

... is probably because it may well have sufficient overhead not to do so.

Having said that, as with ALL electronics, higher heat = shorter life.

But we COULD be talking about 100s to 1000s of hours of OK life here.



There are TWO things of consideration here :-

The 5-Volt regulator which is built into the E.S.C only has to power it's own small circuit + the receiver.

Both of which require minimal power, there are not even loads of servos connected to the receiver.

Cos it ain't having to deal with an overly high-current draw, it can probably stand the 11.1 Volt input.



The 2nd thing is that since the 4 big power-chips on the back of the E.S.C. are designed for 10 Amps ...

... and your load is way, way lower than that for sure, they are likely to survive 11.1 Volts also.



If that E.S.C. was $50 Bucks worth of kit, my shorts would have changed colour by now !

But personally I can afford another £2.54p inc. P&P if I blow mine up !!

So as Clint Eastwood said ...

... " Do you feel lucky punk ? " :w:



:)



Si.



There are LOADS of DC-DC 'step-up regulators' on eBay, just as good & way, way cheaper than 'Pololu'.

There are tons of fixed voltages to choose from & also adjustable ones.



The main criteria for choice being ...

... How much current it needs to deal with & if it's corresponding physical size is OK for the install.



I am wondering at the moment on my install whether to use one or not.

Seems to me though, that unless you absolutely have no room available & simply MUST use a 1-cell LiPo ...

... a 2-cell LiPo stetup, sans regulator, in my case & probably many other cases, is the way to go generally.


:old dude:





:!:


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I use a lot of 'Pololu' regulators, mostly 9V which give good top speeds with most of my locos.
If the fully loaded loco draws about 300mA or less you can use a single 3.7V LiPo with conversion efficiencies of 80% or better.
If you need more than 9V, or the loco draws more than about 300mA, go for a 7.4V 2-cell LiPo which can have conversion efficiencies of 90%


If you want to consist a couple of locos together, a regulator is needed to give a consistent Voltage to both locos.
As LiPos have a output ranging from a freshly charged 4.2V to a depleted 3V, obviously making speed matching difficult.


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@Si
"There are LOADS of DC-DC 'step-up regulators' on eBay, just as good & way, way cheaper than 'Pololu'."

We have to be careful about these converters.
I bought some nice ones from company "A" and they worked well but a sudden overload (stalled motor) smoked them.
Their technical person said the inductor gets saturated and can destroy the switches,
adding that there is no way to protect against this.

Company "P"'s converters just shut down in similar situations
and recover after the load is reduced to zero and started up again.

Ymmv, as always,

boB

Si.
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These are the 'step-up regulators' I bought from Company 'C'






DC-DC 'step-up regulator' 9 Volt output.







DC-DC 'step-up regulator' variable Voltage.



Phil, the ones I bought were for smallish 16.5mm gauge projects.

I'm guessing if you use a regulator, which I don't think you need to, it would need to be a bit bigger.

2-cell operation, sans regulator, is probably your ideal option.



I believe most of the 'regulator guys' have small locos & are using them with 1-cell batteries, due to limited space.

I chose the highest current available, before the PCB size became too big.

Somewhat of a guessing game perhaps, but the specs. are mostly all in the eBay listings.

At about $0.50c per board inc. P&P, I aint gonna argue too much about the fine-print !



Most modern regulator semiconductor devices have built in protection for any number of things ...

... including over-current, short-circuit etc.

These are all simple pieces of electronics squirted out of the same sausage-machine in China.

The expensive ones at 10x the price come with a nice 'logo' on ...

... & probably an expensive 12 month all inclusive money back guarantee.

If mine blows up, I'll just have to cough up another $0.50c for a new one.



:!:



Si.

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As I found, the converters are not all the same and the electronics are not all protected.
I don't mind the $0.50 if one blows up,
it's the taking the model apart to replace it that gets annoying.

I sell models with these converters buried inside and really do not want one frying in a customer's model,
then I have to repair it *and* feel like I should pay postage both ways as well.

I decide to use the components I know will work, so far I have had no complaints!

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Pololu seems to have the smallest footprint for 9V@300mA.
There are some Chinese boards around, albeit a tad larger.
 
I have used the 9V-stepup+supercap in a TT-scale loco,
a battery may even be smaller depending on the capacity.

You may distribute two or more of them wired in parallel, in the shell where convenient.

Si.
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" A question about these low cost alternatives. Are there any small enough to fit in 00 scale locos and leave room for the batteries? "



Hi Dave :wave:



There are a TON of these lil' boards on eBay around $0.50c a go.

They all use the same basic technology & chips/inductors etc.

There are some incredibly teeeny-weeny ones about if one looks.



Bob mentioned being worried about the good-value for money regulators blowing-up !

Some details in a photo from Helmuts link ^^ above.





This one is made by 'Canton Power', logo like a 'copyright-symbol'.

They pretty much make 'em all !





My ones I posted on the last << Page are also made by 'Canton Power' using the same parts.

They look incredibly easy to solder to, with nice holes/pads & plenty of tinning on the PCB.



:)



Si.

W C Greene
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Si, are these ESC/Receivers and do they have PROPORTIONAL SPEED CONTROL forward & reverse?

Woodie

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I checked online Woodie and they are voltage regulators.
I should have been clearer with my original question.
I was thinking of the receiver and ESC.

Si.
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" Si, are these ESC/Receivers and do they have PROPORTIONAL SPEED CONTROL forward & reverse? "



Howdy Woodie :cb:



NO they aren't, and NO they don't.



:f::f::f::f::f:



Si.



;)

Si.
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Hi Guys :wave:



Sorry, I thought you meant the DC-DC 'step-up regulators'.

Oh well, some useful info there ^ for someone anyhow perhaps.



I have some sizes measured from my components ...

... I'll Post something about the size of all these parts later.



Dimensions Of 'FlySky' Receiver, E.S.C. & Regulator



:!:



Si.

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Time to get this thread back on track. (pun intended)
I finally have all the electronic products together.


I didn't realize you need two power supplies to power the ESC and the receiver.
I used the battery pack from All-Batteries, a 6 volt 1600mAh Ni/Mh pack for the receiver
and a 6 volt D cell battery holder to temporarily power the ESC.


I discovered that the switch with the wires on the receiver is an on/off power switch.
This makes the switch soldered to the circuit board the "brake on/off" switch.
I didn't see any difference in the motor with it in the on or off position.
Also hard to tell what is on and what is off.
No instructions comes with the Chinese ESC.


Here's a pic of all the equipment.





And a pic of the (from left to right) Receiver, battery pack & ESC.
It's sitting on an Atheran F7-B unit frame.
It'll all fit in the shell.





Next I'll need to modify the F7-A unit.
I've removed the Atheran 12 volt motor and will be replacing it with two 6 volt motors
driving a "ModelTorque Automatic Torque-control Coupling".


Bernd


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@Bernd
'methinks' that you have overlooked the ESC's built-in BEC.
So you need only a battery for the ESC, and the receiver's supply is established when you plug it in.
Saves you one battery set.

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" I didn't realize you need two power supplies to power the ESC and the receiver."



You don't.

As Helmut says, the receivers 5-Volt power supply is derived from the E.S.C.s 'B.E.C' ...

... 'Battery Elimination Circuit' ...

... when the white/red/black 3-way cable from the E.S.C. is connected to the 'FlySky' receiver.

ALWAYS connect this to Channel-2 on the receiver !





IF the receiver was used with say a glider or sailboat, where there is NO motor used or E.S.C needed ...

... then a separate P.S.U. would be required for the 'FlySky' receiver ...

... which should be connected, in this case, to the dedicated P.S.U connectors on the receiver.



The switch on the E.S.C.s 'flying-leads' is indeed the on/off switch ( see my Post on Page-1 ).

Full E.S.C. Wiring Details For Battery Motor ON/OFF Brake & Receiver

The 'brake' function is only going to be noticeable on R.C. cars.



:!:



Si.

Bernd
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The post never mentioned where to plug the battery in.
I assumed it needed to be plugged into the Receiver and not the ESC.
So yes, it works when you plug the battery into the ESC.

Bernd


Si.
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" The post never mentioned where to plug the battery in.

I assumed it needed to be plugged into the Receiver and not the ESC."


- - - - - - -


From my original Post No.2 on Page-1 :-



The 2 pairs of red & black wires emerging from the E.S.C. for the battery & motor are ...

... cable-plug is for the battery ...

... cable-socket is for the motor.



The 3-way white/red/black wires emerging from the E.S.C ...

... should be connected to the 'FlySky' receivers Channel-2, observing correct polarity.



The single pair of red/red wires emerging from the E.S.C. ...

... terminates in a cable mounted general on/off switch.



:old dude:



Si.

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Bernd,

Thanks for posting those photos.  Keep them coming as I'd like to see how everything comes together.

Bernd
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Si,

No where in your post do mention that the battery needs to only plug into only the ESC and not into the receiver.
You may have thought it but you didn't put it down in words.

Bernd

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Micheal,

I try to make everything clear and understandable with pictures.
Leaves little to be assumed.
More to come as I progress.

Bernd


Si.
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" No where in your post do mention that the battery needs to only plug into only the ESC and not into the receiver."



Yeah ... Why would I ?

In direct response to your Post-1 question ...

... My Post-2 VERY CLEARLY explains to you PRECISELY which connector the battery DOES plug into.

Why on Earth ? would I waffle on, describing loads of things, which it DOESN'T plug into ?




" You may have thought it but you did't put it down in words."



WHAT ?

I haven't "thought" any such thing !

My instructions explain what DOES need to be done, NOT what DOESN'T !


If you bother to spend some time & read them properly ...

... they simply & concisely describe a bench-test of ALL the required connected components.

Battery ... Motor ... Receiver & connection ... on/off switch.


:brill:


Here they are AGAIN :-



But before trimming any wires, or changing any connectors ...

... I decided that a 'spaghetti bench test' would be wise.



The 2 pairs of red & black wires emerging from the E.S.C. for the battery & motor are ...

... cable-plug is for the battery ...

... cable-socket is for the motor.



The 3-way white/red/black wires emerging from the E.S.C ...

... should be connected to the 'FlySky' receivers Channel-2, observing correct polarity.



The single pair of red/red wires emerging from the E.S.C. ...

... terminates in a cable mounted general on/off switch.



I actually don't know what the switch on the P.C.B. is for.

But it MAY be an on/off switch for a 'brake' function.

Which if true, will have little effect for trains on either setting.



When the stuff is wired on the bench, I'll flip it and see !





- - - - - - -


I fail to see how any clearer or more concise directions could be written.

Those few lines & paragraphs actually took some considerable time to write !

Certainly not one liners, full of typos etc. bashed out in seconds.

Likewise all the follow on information I have Posted regarding E.S.C. Voltages & regulators etc.

EFFORT has been put in here to both describe & illustrate things as well as is possible.



I guess I understand now why automobile manuals always say ...

... DON'T PUT WATER IN THE GAS TANK ! :dope:



:Crazy:



Si.

Bernd
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Really?

Why on Earth ? would I waffle on, describing loads of things, which it DOESN'T plug into ?

28 lines later, two pictures and 3 Emoticons you end with :Crazy:

Now that's crazy.
A simple post like, "You don't use the plug on the receiver. You use the plug on the ESC. It has a BEC." Takes a lot less 28 lines.
Perhaps I don't speak the Queens English and understand what your saying.

Bernd

Si.
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34 lines later

1 picture

&

3 emoticons ... in fact.



" Now that's crazy.
A simple post like, "You don't use the plug on the receiver. You use the plug on the ESC. It has a BEC." Takes a lot less 28 lines."



Not crazy in the least.

As I have already said, WHY STATE WHAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO CONNECT ?

Like don't connect your Mains A.C. supply directly to your rails perhaps ??



If you're going to criticize my Posts for essentially a lack of clarity ...

... then, for sure, the original Post is gonna get quoted to show otherwise !

It was all said, clear as a bell, done & dusted, at the end of Post-2 !!

READ IT !
 


" Perhaps I don't speak the Queens English and understand what your saying."



I think you just need to spend a moment or two reading what has been laboured over for your benefit.

28 lines & 2 pictures ??

Mmm  .  .  .



L:


Si.

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Can we please go back to the question what total space such a conventional R/C system will use in total?
Neither do I speak the Queen's English but I perfectly understood what Si has written.
It was concise enough.
Finally, one is only responsible for what one writes, not for what others lack in understanding.


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Do you ever consider how ridiculously short the travels of trigger and steering wheel are?
I cannot see how one can sensibly control the speed range of a loco from switching crawl to full speed.
You move your finger just a bit and the vehicle sets off like a rocket.
That gun-type controller is nothing for me!


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I presume you would have to remove the innards and put them in another container.
Is that trigger controlling a pot? If so a substitute pot would be needed?

Helmut
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I have done exactly this,
but one also can retain the wheel+pot, replace the trigger+pot with a resistor ladder,
change the inner mechanics a bit -all in all not  too tedious a task once you know the ropes.
I've converted quite a few gun-type controls this way.
Maybe I describe it some time.
The photo I've posted a bit earlier in #17 shows the conversion of the gun,
and by just using the innards, to a familiar handheld I've made.

George Ruthven
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Helmut,

I would love to do the same with my 3 remotes - any chance of some photos and a description pse?
As a mech eng I just don't have the courage to even open the remotes
although as you know I'am tackling more and more electronic stuff as the months go by.

I just completed the bridge and motor on the Lionel unit and it's running with a slight
hesitation.
I notice fine sparking between the brushes and remember what you said - I'll investigate and clean again.

My little grandson does tend to start off too fast either with the round knob or the stick
and we have subsequent derailments but he is learning - the 'springs are too strong'.

It's ironic that I speeded up the one Lima coach with a 4000rpm motor
only to increase the derailment because of his inability to counter the 'spring action'. 

I think your modification is the answer.

Bernd
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Got the system together and tried a 6 volt motor. As far as I'm concerned this system is a piece of crap.
The motor control is almost none existent. The ESC turns the motor on at about 2.8 volts. The motor buzzes and the red LED flashes on ESC. At 4 volts everything smooth's out. Motor is running at almost full speed. Max voltage from the ESC is 5.1 volts.
The controlling pot on the Tx is way to sensitive to minuet motor speed adjustments.
This system is going to the trash can. Glad it was cheap.
Expensive is better than cheap. It keeps the frustration level low.
Now I know a couple of you guys are going down play all this and say you have no problems with your system.
If it's close to the Fly-Sky and it works post what you did to it to make it work better.

Bernd

Helmut
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@Bernd
That's what I said in #58. You can use that system, but you have to alter the TX quite a bit to make it railroadworthy.
The ~1000Hz switching frequency of most of the ESC's available for cars can be quite annoying, too.
I did quite a bit of adaption to RR purpses using that sort of system, and have written a lengthy article about it in another forum.
It's all in German, and I don't feel inclined to translate it.
Wait for our resident boffin to report after he - some day - got his R/C working in a loco.
( The Queen, although English, would never use that term, BTW )

Addendum:
No wonder that with 1000Hz, many iron-core motors do not respond well and low rpm is well nigh impossible.
For our purposes, an ESC working @50..200Hz is still the best choice.
Those cheap ESCs are made for car-racing and not for switching speeds.

Si.
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" I too was inspired by Si's 'FlySky' info on the Tam Valley thread.
I already had TX and RX so I just ordered a 10amp ESC of Ebay.
It arrived from China a few days ago and looks just like the one you guys ordered but it came with instructions.

I hooked it all up on the bench on Friday and it works great.
 
Phil.


- - - - - - -


Seems like Phil got all his parts wired together properly & is good to go. :thumb:

George has also used the same E.S.C. I believe, with a different Transmitter & Receiver. :bg:

It's fairly obvious to say as well, that these components have been used by 1000s of other R.C. fans as well.



It's not hard to see in the Freerails R.C.Forum ...

... that there seems to be a massive vested interest, in slagging off affordable R.C. options.

It's hard to actually Post anything positive about such possibilities ...

... without them being straight away swamped by barrages of negativity on all fronts.

Sad really.



I'm guessing that the difference between huge ancient, possibly clapped-out, motors ...

... and something with a little more finesse could easily be a consideration.

But of course it's easy to blame anything but, what can sometimes be an obvious problem. :f:



Carry on slagging off anyone who dares to do different in whatever way they do. :old dude:

Keep filling up the piggy-banks for that R.C. system, that costs more than the loco !



Meantime, R.C.ers thinking 'outside the box', go with it ! ;)

If it's working for you guys ...

... which it seems to be ... :cool:

... stick with it !



:)



Si.  

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Now I get fed up with that sort of gabblehonk by a moderator.
1. How many locos have you, Si, converted to R/C using all available different  components that are available on the market?
My count is 20 so far, ranging from G scale to TT.
2. Have you ever tested the motor behavoiour in relation to the PWM frequency?
This is especially important when you use stock motors in models you want to convert.
3. Have you ever adopted that shotgun stuff to manageable ranges of knob turn and control sensivity?
If not, refrain from judging others' experiences with all sorts of RC gear before you haven't shown some of your own work here!

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" Now I get fed up with that sort of gabblehonk by a moderator."



Since WHEN ? has being a Freerails Moderator got ANYTHING to do with anything ?

Last time I looked, I was still permitted to say what I wish.

The vast majority of which, is ALWAYS very positive !!



I have a POSITIVE attitude to peoples experimentation with R.C. methods.

When I see Members in the Forum SUCCEEDING as well ...

... it just makes me wonder what all the 'can't do' & "this system is a piece of crap" attitude is all about ?



Gabblehonk, I'm sure to most people, could be the language of so called experience ...

... largely un-deciphered by the 'low-end' experimenters I follow ...

... who seem to amazingly get trains moving without it !



I don't need to " refrain from judging others' experiences with all sorts of RC gear "

Since I DON'T JUDGE IT !

Show me exactly WHERE ? I have anything to say, other than about what MY experiments are ??



There really is a ton of B.S. & dis-information flying around in the R.C. Forum.

Having said that, as before ...

... there are people skirting around it, doing things differently, and making things work !



Si.

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Now boys...settle down. There's room for everybody here and feelings shouldn't be an issue.
It doesn't matter how much you spend or what you have, all that matters is if you are happy with what you accomplish.
I don't post much these days, seems that nobody wants to see my tired old lokies with r/c car boards.
But while I ain't posting, I am building and operating and having fun.
When I got into this, r/c car boards were THE ONLY things that were available to do what I wanted.
Some might remember that the reason Freerails has a nice r/c forum is because yours truly badgered the list-owners until they set this up.
Otherwise, there wouldn't be an r/c forum.
Warts and all, this is still the best and the most on the internet.
So, chill out and run a (r/c) train today!

Woodie

Bernd
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That's what I said in #58.
Yes you did. Unfortunately I didn't listen. It was an interesting experiment anyway.
Phil is using a 10amp versus my 30amp. Could that be the difference.  Or is it the frequency of the ESC?
Also need to question whether Phil hooked a motor to his ESC. Lacking a bit of info there.
I'm sure Si will fill the space with useless chatter before we get some semblance of an answer, if we get one at all.
Either way I'm done with that junk equipment.

Bernd

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@Bernd
current rating is not a criterion. There's another aspect which is essential for RR operation - the minimum duty cycle an ESC will offer.
The cheap ones are intended for the car/ boat racing market where you do not need the slow starting speeds a loco does.
Then there's the motor characteristics, such as its own starting voltage.
It is not uncommon for a 6V motor to start at 2V.
The average customer doesn't tolerate a dead band in the beginning, he wants immediate action once the trigger is pulled.
So it is very likely that when you plot R/C channel pulse length vs. duty cycle, you see an offset of the ESC ,
that is a minimum duty cycle >0% ( which would be the ideal theoretical value ).
To test this, one must use a servo tester where you can vary the channel pulse length with a reasonable high resolution.
If you connect the ESC to it, you can determine that minimum duty cycle (= starting voltage ).
Only ESC's with a low offset are really useful for model RR purposes, if you can tolerate the PWM noise.
As Bob laid out, you still may have a jump-start phenomenon that can only be overcome when you use rather low-frequency PWM,
something you don't find in the Chinese ESCs.
This is logical as they aim at a completely different market demand.

Helmut
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Hi all,
after some consideration I finally decided to show how to convert that FlySky 2-channel car TX/RX into something sensible for loco operation.
As you buy cheap, you must be prepared for some tinkering and butchering.
It is not that straightforward a system you can employ as someone here wants to make believe,
at least if you want a decent control sensitivity and range.
You have to replace that noisy cheap car ESC as well if you want something that doesn't torture your ears up to midrange speeds.
Let's concentrate on the TX/RX system first.
I bought mine some years ago, but as the innards are FlySky, I don't think they changed the electronics.
My housing looks differnet, but that's a minor issue.
First, here's what you see once you undo the screws and open it:


Attachment: Conrad9.jpg (Downloaded 110 times)

Bernd
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You have my attention.

Inside  of yours looks close to the one I have.

Bernd

Last edited on Fri Dec 1st, 2017 01:26 am by Bernd

Helmut
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The steering knob, which will be used for speed control later, can rotate by 90°.
A steam loco's throttle has the same swing. Direction will be changed by a toggle switch.
So that's pretty close to prototype, and one can live with that.
In another conversion, I just used the electronics ( see my picture in #17 ) in a flat housing where you have that 270° turn.

Helmut
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Next step is to make the mechanical changes. The "TH" (speed trigger ) pot has to be removed.
The "ST" (steering) pot's centering spring has to go, too. First, you take out the TH pot:





Pull the plug out of its socket and undo the two screws that hold it. It is set aside for later use.
Then there's the ST pot which will become the throttle. Remove the center screw in the wheel and pry it off the pot's axle.
Then remove the three screws in the housing, unplug that, too and pull it out.





That lever and its spring have to be removed.
As soon as you remove the spring the lever will follow and free the pot's movement to some 300°.
We will not be able to use that, however, because its inner workings are such that there is only a useable travel of some 90°.





(Here is an inset I forgot)
The potentiometer will be used to set speed from 0% to 100% for its full 90° swing.
Therefore, its electrical circuit has to be adapted to that prerequisite.
To understand this, one has to see how a channel pulse is used in an ESC.
The channel pulse's 'neutral' duration is 1.5msec.
Full forward is assigned to an 1.8msec, and full reverse to an 0.8msec duration.
The 'ST' pot's respective positions are middle( halfway), full CW, and full CCW.
Its nominal value is 5 kOhms in most cases, so that corresponds to 2.5k, 5k, and 0 ohms.
The input is seeing 2.5, 5, and 0 Volts.
So in this application, the swing from 0% to 100% has to be translated into 2.5V --> 5V,(forward) and 2.5V-->0V (reverse).
The schematic shows how that is done:





I chose these values to arrive at roughly the same resistance value as before,
but it will work when on just replaces the 2k2 resistor with one of the same value as the pot, and omit 3k9.
Anyway, here it shows how it is done.
First you cut the PCB strip leading to the black wire's terminal:





Then you solder the resistors in place (I chose 1% types just to be sure ):





( End of inset)

The pot is to be mounted again, and the knob will get a friction pad, so that it will keep its position easily:





I used a self-adhesive felt pad they sell to protect the floor from chair marks.
More later.

George Ruthven
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Thks Helmut, you've made my weekend:bow:

Bernd
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Helmut,
Excellent step by step.
If I understand the values right of the resistors, they are 2000 ohm and a 3000 ohm or are they 2200 ohm and 3900 ohm?
Bernd 

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@Bernd
The resistors are 3900(3k9) & 2200(2k2) Ohms 1%. You can also use just a 5100(5k1) Ohms 1% in place of the 2k2 and leave the 3k9 out.
All this is true only when the pot is 5000 (5k) Ohms! If in doubt, check with a multimeter.

Bernd
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Helmut wrote: @Bernd

The resistors are 3900(3k9) & 2200(2k2) Ohms 1%.
You can also use just a 5100(5k1) Ohms 1% in place of the 2k2 and leave the 3k9 out.
All this is true only when the pot is 5000 (5k) Ohms! If in doubt, check with a multimeter.


That's what I thought. Just wanted to check to be sure I was right. Thank you.
I did check the pots and they are 5K ohm. Also states they are 5k on the back side.

Bernd

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Bernd wrote: 
Phil is using a 10amp versus my 30amp. Could that be the difference.  Or is it the frequency of the ESC?
Also need to question whether Phil hooked a motor to his ESC. Lacking a bit of info there.
I'm sure Si will fill the space with useless chatter before we get some semblance of an answer, if we get one at all.

Either way I'm done with that junk equipment.

Bernd

Guys,

I have not put my equipment in a loco yet.
I have only tested it with a 24 volt Pitman gear head motor.
It may not have great control modulation. 

But like you say Bernd a good experiment.




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Hi all,

here's a quick and dirty solution for doubling the control swing and having a positive zero position where one can throw the direction switch.
In the FlySky, there will be an elegant way to that with less components,
the sketch here shows how to do it in the not-so-sophisticated TX's where there is no channel inversion provided.





The colour of the center conductor may differ, but red and black are IMHO standard.


Helmut
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The FlySky TX has  adjustments for trim and slide-switches to invert the channel signal,
i. e. throttle pulled in 'norm' is 100% FW, in 'rev' its 100% REV.
They sit under a cover and yes, it looks different from mine. But they are labeled.
We use that possibility to wire the direction switch with less circuitry.
In 'norm' position, an imput of the control processor is pulled to ground, whereas in 'rev' it is left open.
So one just has to solder two wires to the 'ST' switch and run them to the new direction switch in the housing.
The 'ST' switch is left in 'rev' position, so that the input is controlled by the direction switch now.
What it does is that in 'FW' you run up from 1.5 to ~2msec, and from 1.5 to ~1msec in 'REV', all with the 'ST' input seeing 2.5 to 5V.
First, one has to provide a direction switch.
I chose a slide-switch, because it can be mounted the easy way when one has two halves of a case.





Admittedly not the best photo I've made, but the principle can be seen.








Once that is in place and the two halves fit together,
one just needs to run two wires from the 'ST' switch to the contacts that are closed in the 'FW' ( right hand side for me ) position.





Now you can look for some decent blackened cylinder-head screws to fasten your direction switch once the halves are joined.






Helmut
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Now if you have put back the 'ST' pot, and the battery case, you can start with the first trials.
Even with that car ESC, you should be able to experience a finer control range as before.
Oh, lest I forget - the ESC has to be put in Ch#2 now IIRC.


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Ok, I'll give that a try, next time I get enthused about doing some electronics work.


Thanks for the SBS.
Very helpful.


Bernd


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Remember I've set aside that 'TH' pot?.
It will be discarded and there will be pushbuttons to control some 4 functions instead.
First I'll show the schematics, the real thing will follow.





This arrangement will render 5 different voltages: neutral - 2.5V, f1 - 5V, f2 - 3.4V, f3 - 1.6V, f4 - 0.4V.
Here it shows what the built-in conversion made of it for my TX:





The neutral pulse of 1.5msec is not shown.
The idea is to use these different pulselengths to trigger functions.
One can go for up to 10 such functions in one channel and have them reliably detected.
Of course that's microcontroller business.
What you can get is devices that take the longest (full) and shortest (minimum) channel pulses to switch one or more outputs,
but then you have to repeatedly move your paddle and not lose count for the different functions you want.
I made a 4-channel discriminator with an ATTiny13 and a ULN2803, that is rather small and satisfied my needs so far.


Bernd
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Wow Helmut you really dug into this.

Thanks for posting all the work you've done.
Going to have to get the RC back out of the box and give it a try.

Bernd

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Some more food for thought ...

The schematics of the 4-function module.

And a photo of the prototype ( Didn't bother to make a PCB yet ).



The ULN2803 is a tiny SMD sitting directly on the copper pads underneath.
I used two imputs / outputs in parallel as they fit on the 0.1" spacing then.


Attachment: 5180_081434_470000000.jpg (Downloaded 27 times)

George Ruthven
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Helmut,

Will you also show the conversion of the remote into one's own box as per your example.

( and what happens to the batteries ? )

George.





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I've shown the schematics for the pushbuttons,

here is sample of how they are mounted onto the TX's housing:



You need a 14mm hole (or 9/16") to make it snug-fit.

Now I think it is clear why I showed two 2-pin connectors going into a 4-pin,

because there are 2 PB's on each side.


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Thks Helmut:Salute:

Helmut
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@George

Mind you, this is just the hardware - you need software to program the switching module.
I'll pack that all into a .zip-file and load it up ( one of these days;)).

In a nutshell, the switch module must be able to adapt itself to the TX's pulselengths,
and be told whether to toggle a function output or keep it momentary.

The flat-box adaptation is much more complicated
( not so if FlySky have done away with 9.6 - 12V supply voltage requirement in the meantime )
and only doable for the advanced electronics buff.

Anybody read of Si's implementation of the FlySky in his loco?

Bernd
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Helmut wrote:
Anybody read of Si's implementation of the FlySky in his loco?

Did he ever finish it. I did see thread about it and that's what got me to buy a Fly-Sky.
Also I haven't seen him on in several days. What he do, take his toys and go home? 

Bernd

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Maybe he's busy to make up for lost time in RC conversion....

Helmut
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For those interested in that four-channel switch, here's the hex-code for an ATTiny13:
When the jumper is set, the unit is in learning mode
and will determine the neutral pulse length once it is switched on and the TX and RX are working.
The LED will come on as soon that is done.
Then one depresses the F1..F4 buttons shortly, followed by a 1sec acknowledge of the LED, or longer till the LED starts to blink.
So that function is either a momentary output or a permanent (toggling) one.
Once the four functions are determined, pull the jumper and the unit is ready to operate.

Lest I forget -Happy New Year to everybody!

Now have to go to the yard and and steam up my loco, the boys want to go for a ride with fireworks and replica guns and what not...


Attachment: RC_Kanalschalter.zip (Downloaded 4 times)

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Si. wrote:



Hi Bernd :wave:



I am actually messing about with those parts at the moment.

Including removing the 'FlySky' receivers plastic casing.



They need to fit in a Porter tender, under construction at present.





But before trimming any wires, or changing any connectors ...

... I decided that a 'spaghetti bench test' would be wise.



The 2 pairs of red & black wires emerging from the E.S.C. for the battery & motor are ...

... cable-plug is for the battery ...

... cable-socket is for the motor.



The 3-way white/red/black wires emerging from the E.S.C ...

... should be connected to the 'FlySky' receivers Channel-2, observing correct polarity.



The single pair of red/red wires emerging from the E.S.C. ...

... terminates in a cable mounted general on/off switch.



I actually don't know what the switch on the P.C.B. is for.

But it MAY be an on/off switch for a 'brake' function.

Which if true, will have little effect for trains on either setting.



When the stuff is wired on the bench, I'll flip it and see !



:!:



Si.



The battery & motor connectors will both be discarded, as they are quite large.

I might use the on/off switch perhaps.

The 3-way white/red/black cable-socket, may get cut off & wires soldered directly to the receiver.



At £3.84p inc. P&P for the 'Flysky' receiver ...

... & only £2.54p inc. P&P for the E.S.C. ...

... experimentation is a low-cost risk !







Okay.

E.S.C. plugged into Channel-2.

Battery to plug & motor to socket.

As soon as I plug in the battery, the loco takes off.

What did I do wrong ?


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Darn.

Had the plug and socket backwards.

Oops. :doh:

Swapped things around and now it works fine.

Actually a very simple installation.

And for about $25-30 for everything needed not a bad price

(cheaper than most DCC decoders)


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To be fair you don't have any extras, like directional lights. But still - you don't need a CU and track wiring if you go BPRC!

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" Darn.  Had the plug and socket backwards.  Oops. :doh:
Swapped things around and now it works fine.
Actually a very simple installation.
And for about $25-30 for everything needed not a bad price "


Hi Michael :wave:



GREAT STUFF !   :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Pleased to hear the wiring-instructions I Posted, were very clear & easy to follow !! ;)



I was taking a good long look at your proto-photo Michael ...

... and I can't see :!: directional-lights :!: anywhere ?


:us:





For that matter, I can't see any door-handles or windshield-wipers either ?? ???

In fact I don't even think that has a battery, judging from the starting-crank ! :shocked:



I'm guessing it hasn't got an 8-Track player even ? :f:



:mex:



Life In The FAST Lane ! :P

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WOW! That "rail truck" is cooler than homemade s$%t! A beauty for sure.
Curvy spoke wheels, funky wood, and even some rusty corrugated metal...who would build something like that?
Here in the US, we might call that a "Redneck tour bus".

Woodie


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 " WOW! That "rail truck" is cooler than homemade s$%t! A beauty for sure "



Howdy Woodie :cb:



Sure is !



I've taken the liberty of re-Posting some of Michaels latest 1:35n2 critter photos here.

R.C. of course ! ... powered by a nice slow :slow: running precision gearbox-motor & 'FlySky' 2.4 GHz receiver etc.





The Nye, Inyo & Esmeralda Railroad No.20 out on a test-run.





The cover for the water tank, which carries all the electronics, hasn't been attached to the frame yet.





BINGO ! ... She's a RUNNER !!  :thumb:

The engineer runs No.20 through the canyon on Michaels layout.  :mex:



Beautiful California sunshine Michael ...

... As the Beach Boys said ! :cool:



A mooser fer sure.



:moose: :moose: :moose: :moose: :moose:



Si.



Michael used a single 7.4-Volt LiPo battery, for his power source I believe.


Not only is the critters 'FlySky' installation a high-quality 2.4 GHz system ...

... but the components are VERY affordable as well.


I obtained the same parts ( other than buying two separate 3.7-Volt batteries ) ...

... for these prices :-

:old dude:

£3.84p inc. P&P - 'FlySky' Modular 2.4 GHz Receiver.

£2.54p inc. P&P -  E.S.C. Electronic Speed Controller.

£2.72p inc. P&P -  2x LiPo Batteries 3.7-Volts.


& that's it ! :shocked:


The component cost for 1 loco is just ... £9.10p inc. P&P ! ! :cool:




'FlySky' Modular 2.4 GHz Receiver.



E.S.C. Electronic Speed Controller.



2x LiPo Batteries 3.7-Volts.





:cool:


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The electronic parts went together better than expected.

Have another 'FlySky' receiver on order, along with an ESC and battery.


Next on the conversion list is a Tyco 0-4-0 Shifter.

It'll get a new whaleback tender to hold the electronics.

The loco runs good so I'll leave the motor alone.


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" The electronic parts went together better than expected "

" Have another 'FlySky' receiver on order, along with an ESC and battery "



Hi Michael :wave:



I'm pleased to hear that the electronics install was a result !

:thumb:

Your new 'Tyco' 0-4-0 'shifter' BASH sounds like another  C :cool: :cool: L  as $4!7 project !

The new scratchbuilt tender should be a great place to stash the batteries.

I'm WATCHIN' ! :shocked:

You might encourage me to put some time into my scratched Porter tender ! :P



I came across your ol' proto-photo for The Nye, Inyo & Esmeralda Railroad No.9 on my 'puter today.

Originally from Joses insane  - o D d i T y - o F - t H e - d A y -  Thread, I recall ?

:pimp:





Classic 'backwoods engineering' if ever I've seen it ! :old dude:





I know you had a bit of a squeeze in ol' No.9 to fit the 'all in one' board from the R.C. donor-car in to it.

I just wondered how much space was actually available inside the critter ?



The 'FlySky' receiver-board is pretty darn small, once it's un-needed plastic-casing is discarded.

Not sure I remember if you used 1 or 2 batteries in this one ?



:moose: :moose: :moose: :moose: :moose:



Si.



PIMP MY CRITTER !  :pimp:

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Ol' No. 9 would have had plenty of room to fit a 'FlySky' receiver along with an ESC and battery.

No. 9 just received one battery, but runs fine, other than a waddle that it's seem to develop...guess it adds character.


I've given up on trying to adapt RC cars to model railroading...just too much hassle.

Sticking with 'FlySky' !


He's a poor photo of the wood form for a whaleback tender sitting on top of the Tyco tender.





The wood form still needs a little trimming and sanding.

From rail height to top of tender it stands 8' 3"

Here's an end-shot photo of a SPNG whaleback tender.





Assuming the guys standing near it are about 6'

I would say that tender stands at least 10'.

So 8' feet on my tender seems about right.


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Vintage 'American Track & Train' ... No.95 Yard Bird 0-4-0 ... Similar to your 'Tyco' Shifter ? L:






:old dude:



Si.

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To be correct, the firm was "American Train & Track " and I fully agree with a citation from the 'Model Railroader' forum:
>> AT&T was a rather short-lived outfit whose offerings span only a few years, more or less centered around 1969.
Their list of products included several very small imported brass steam switchers, plastic F units, an RDC, plus some passenger equipment.
None of their items were of any real quality and, as noted above, the company didn't last very long.<<
I bought some junk from them, too. Lousy exchange rate for my hard-earned DMs set the frustration level even higher.

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" To be correct, the firm was "American Train & Track "



Hi Helmut :wave:



WHOOOPS !

SORRY !! :f:

I should read the boxes properly ...

... but none of my ATT gems are MIB  ( that's 'Mint In Box' ... not 'Men In Black' ) :shades:

I absolutely HATE IT when idiots like me, get their acronyms in a twist. :dope:


( please note people, that the correct acronym should be expressed without an '&' ... :old dude:

... to avoid any confusion with the well known U.S. telephone company ) :f:



However, I absolutely CAN'T ...
... " agree with a citation from the 'Model Railroader' forum " :doh: ...

... saying " None of their items were of any real quality "



I have a number of their items in my vintage HO stash, which I would not be without for the WORLD ! :thumb:

Including the AWESOME Budd railcar offered by ATT  ( I'll stick to the acronym this time ). ;)





Fantastic all metal engineering of the heavy-duty mechanism ...

... which save for a bit of a 'soup-up' of the 50-year old magnet ( show me what DOESN'T need that ) ...

... has never worn out & still runs like a dream 1/2 a century later ! :shocked:



Impressive injection moulded bodywork for the late '60s as well. :cool:



Whilst I can't vouch for every single product sold by ATT back in the day ...

... the Muddle Snail-Loader forums citation, seems a tad orrrf to me, to say the least. :P



Of course they WEREN'T $500 Buck locos, stuffed full of microchips, likely to sit in boxes on shelves for most of their life ...

... as my Budd railcar is testament to.

Actual 'real-people' could afford them & did indeed buy & use many excellent ATT items.



I'm sure there may have been the odd stinker of an item as well.

I only have to look at my 21st Century Bachy 2-6-0 Mogul with BUSTED gears ...

... to appreciate the ATT Budds '60s bomb-proof engineering though ! :) 



:pimp:



Si.



Sorry as well Michael ... :f:

... I didn't intend to start some 'off topic' ramblings about my lovely vintage HO trains ... ;)

... I simply meant to suggest that the accursed 'Yard Bird' looked a bit like a 'Shifter' ! ???

Mmmm   .   .   .


L:




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The views expressed in Middle Rollroader are aimed at the snobs and better-thans anyway.
These old girls could be made to look and run nicely, but it would take someone with a knack for such...something that MR seldom offers now.
It has been way over 20 years since I looked at one of the mags.
Humbug!!

Woodie


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" The views expressed in Middle Rollroader are aimed at the snobs and better-thans anyway "



Howdy Woodie :cb:



I always wondered as a kid ...

... how the hell did any 'kids' on my kinda pocket-money, afford to buy ANY trains at all ! :us:

It wasn't until I was a 'grownup', that I realized THEY DIDN'T !

It was all the BIG kids like US buying all the nice model trains. ;)


Oh well. :f:


Certainly in the case of the Budd railcar ATT offered ...

... all things considered, in terms of both running & looks ...

... I'd be a more than satisfied customer ... & am so 50-years later. :old dude:





Great running ... great looks ... & ... GREAT PRICE !





Plenty of room for a mooodern R.C. installation in these babies !

The 'FlySky' receiver + a HEAVY-DUTY type E.S.C. Electronic Speed Controller, for the POWERFUL motor.

BINGO !



:cool:



Si.





Last edited on Sat Feb 10th, 2018 01:30 am by Si.

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Anyway ... Sorry about that 'Yard Bird' ! ;)

You have to make some allowances ... as I'm a BRIT !



I think Tyco Shifters are about as rare over here ...

... as GWR pannier tanks are across the pond ! :us:



Found some snaps of one on eBay though ... So now I know ! :P












I'm gonna need a welder you crazy fool !



Si.



Looks like it has great possibilities for the next R.C. BASH project Michael. :thumb:

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Si,

That little four-wheeled tender would fit nicely behind a Bachmann 0-4-0.

Found a few ATT pieces on eBay ... a little pricey !

But, then I'm kinda cheap when it comes to doling out dollars.

As you know I've picked up a few four-wheel Triang and Hornby cars for bashing.


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I'm still pushing ahead with my conversion of my Shifter into a 35n2 loco.

Making progress on the whaleback tender.

The tender frame was widen a little to 5' 3".  The tender itself stand about 5' 6" high.



Should provide more than enough room inside for all the electronics.

Except for a new cab I'm tempted to just leave the boiler alone, at least for now.

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Hi Michael :wave:



ARH !

I see you did shoot a snap of your Tyco Shifter !

I remember seeing it now, on my cellphone, just not on my 'puter !

Got it now though.





I see the length ^^ of the tender.

Looks like there will be a lot of space in your new tender top for the batteries.

A new cab should look interesting & the chimney extended much taller could basically do it.

The wooden 'form' idea is pretty  C :cool: :cool: L



:thumb:



Si.

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Probably replace the bell along with the stack.  I'll have to see how it turns out.

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Hi Michael :wave:



I guess the trick, is gonna be to have the floor of the new 2" tall cab, as low as possible.

Maybe even loosing the rearmost dome, inside the new cab, to keep things short.

It's gonna be really important to minimize the 'overhang', esp. at the cab end !



Nice that the batteries & R.C. gear, can go in the tender.

If it aint got it already, I figure that boiler can get some more weight stuffed into it !





I saw what appears to be a self-assembly version on Google images.

Is that whole boiler section diecast ?

Nar ... Must be sprayed placky ... right ?

The kit looks like fun !



:)



Si.

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I would be okay with loosing the rear dome.  Don't think that a switcher really needs two sand domes.

The boiler on my loco is plastic so cutting the cab off won't be a problem.
Just need to keep the cab floor low and even with the tender floor.
I'll see if I can stuff any additional weight into the boiler.

On your kit it has a cast frame, cylinders, and boiler.
Probably from the 60s or 70s.

Tyco/Mantua also has a 4-6-0 but the motor fills the cab.


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The kit is as it appears...the boiler is a solid piece of Zamack metal.
Dome cutting will be a real "bear" but the adventurous hacker can do it.
As for a switcher needing 2 sand domes,
the railroads found two domes handy when starting heavy loads since an 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 needed the "extra traction" occasionally.
The original Mantua version had all metal parts, cab, tender, everything!
Have fun with the Dremel tool!

Woodie

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" The kit is as it appears...the boiler is a solid piece of Zamack metal.
Dome cutting will be a real "bear" but the adventurous hacker can do it.
The original Mantua version had all metal parts, cab, tender, everything! "



Howdy Woodie :cb:



W :shocked: W !

So my eyes didn't deceive me. :)

SOLID ! :thumb:





The ol' Mantua 0-4-0 ! :old dude:




- - - - - - -



Hi Michael :mex:



I came across this bang-on side-elevation.

So thought I may as well Post it.

Kinda picture I like when sizing things up.





But hey ! ... You got the real-deal on your bench !! :P



No.99 Huh! ...

... or Eh! as    Ken would say !! ;)



:slow: :pimp: :slow:



Si.

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Hi again Michael :wave:



Just wondering ... L:

... You said you bought a 2nd 'FlySky' receiver & another E.S.C. Electronic Speed Controller. :)

Did you buy the same mini red-board E.S.C. this time ? ???





Or did you get one of the different mini E.S.C.s on eBay ?



:brill:



Si.

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Si,

I got the same ESC as before.  I didn't see any need to fool with something that works.  Keeping it simple.

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" I didn't see any need to fool with something that works "



Hi Michael :mex:



I can't argue with THAT ! ;)



I did buy a 2nd E.S.C Electronic Speed Controller a little while back, as a spare etc.

I haven't tried it out yet though.

I'm sure it is very similar to the above ^^ red-board one. :)





Again the price was incredible, at about $3.00c Bucks inc. P&P ! :shocked:

I thought it's slightly different board shape, may be useful for perhaps narrower situations.



The 'capacitor' component, sticking out where the wiring emerges ...

... is simply soldered in parallel with the power/battery connections ...

... and isn't really needed & can be cut off, if space is at an ultra-premium.





It 'claims' to handle more Amps ...

... but hey, the difference between 10 & 20 Amps in our small models ...

... ain't really a factor, other than perhaps in a total 'stall' situation.

Unlikely ... and replacing a £2.54p inc. P&P board, aint exactly gonna crash Wall Street anyway !! :cool:



:moose:



Si.

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20 amps is kinda overkill isn't it?  I guess it don't hurt anything.  Even my Lionel engines only pull a couple of amps. 

I do like how the ESC is on the narrow side.  Could be handy for tight situations.

I do like the FlySky setups we've been using...simple and inexpensive.

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The 20 A is only the current the ESC is able to handle.
It does not influence the actual  current. This is determined by the motor.
As this is an ESC from the usual car/boat RC range, 20 A potential current is not an unusual value for such an ESC.
Far more interesting with such 'standard' ESC is the frequency for controlling the motor.
This one seems to have 2 kHz. I would not want to have a loco with this in front of my nose.

Juergen


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" The 20 A is only the current the ESC is able to handle.
It does not influence the actual current.
This is determined by the motor."



Hi Juergen :wave:



Yes indeed.

I think most people understand that.

Which is why I said this about it ...



" ain't really a factor, other than perhaps in a total 'stall' situation "



I seriously doubt that particular E.S.C. would handle 20-Amps or even 10-Amps for 'long' anyway.

I believe those are 'peak' figures ... Judging by the physical-size of the power-chips.

Plenty of power-capacity for small to medium sized motors though.



:)



Si.

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Hi Si,
ok, you mean I misunderstood Michael's objection. 
Then sorry for that, didn't want to carry owls to Athens.

Juergen 

Last edited on Wed Feb 21st, 2018 12:30 pm by Toeffelholm

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Hi Juergen :wave:



I don't think Michael was 'objecting' as such.

I think it was more of an 'observation'.



The E.S.C. he's been using, is 'claimed' to have a 10-Amp capacity.

Which as he points out, is WAY more capacity, than even his big Lionel locos would need.



From my general electronics experience ...

... looking at the 'physical size' of the power-chips ...

... & seeing that there is no heat-sinking fitted ...

... my 'guess' is that both the small E.S.C.s shown ^^ on this Page ...

... would 'probably' handle 2-Amps continuous current OK.



But the 10-Amp & 20-Amp figures in the specs ...

... almost certainly refer to 'peak' current handling only.



As far as I am aware, both these E.S.C.s are the smallest that I've seen available.



Much much bigger ones are available of course, for car/boat applications.

These are characterized by much larger physical-size & visible heat-sinking ...

... such as this one :-











I'm sure you know all that already Juergen.

But I think attempting to Post with a view to explaining things to newcomers who know 'nothing' is important.



These 'technical' things are sometimes not explained very clearly ...

... usually under the assumption that the person reading is experienced ...

... when often they are not & reading a very  A ... B ... C ... type of Post ...

... can be very helpful to them, rather than just causing more confusion.

We hope so anyway.



:)



Si.



Without actually looking back through the Thread to check ...

... I believe Phil was using a much larger E.S.C. like the one ^^ above.

His loco was a large 'O'-scale one though.

George has also used a similar large E.S.C. for his 'O'-scale as well.

Possibly not needed though, unless for really big locos or 'G'-scale.

The smaller E.S.C.s on this Page may well be enough.



Suck it & see ! ... If you TOAST it !! ... You're out a massive great big $3.00c three Bucks for a new one.


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Si. wrote:
As far as I am aware, both these E.S.C.s are the smallest that I've seen available


In this price range that's surely right.
The smallest I have used were these:

https://www.sol-expert-group.de/1-87-model-building/Micro-speed-regulator:::48_56.html

Juergen

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I'm happy with the E.S.C.s I've been getting off of eBay for only about $3.75c

10 amps, even if only peak, should be fine for the small motors we use in HO and On30.





With my Lionel trains I use 3 Amp auto fuses to protect engines from having a meltdown.
 
I've blown a few fuses, but that's because I've left a screwdriver laying across the tracks. 

That's why I was thinking that a 20 Amp E.S.C. was kinda overkill.

Since I'm using battery power I'm not expecting any spikes or shorts.


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" I'm happy with the E.S.C.s I've been getting off of eBay for only about $3.75c "


Hi Michael :mex:


Well ... If it ain't broke ... Don't try & fix it ! ... as they say. ;)


Certainly YOU won't end up 'BROKE' $$$ :us:


Mine the ^^ same, cost me £2.54p inc. P&P on eBay.

That's $3.43c at todays rate of about 1:1.35 Pound/U.S.D.


Looks like you mighta been RIPPED ORRRF ! by about $0.32c !! :f:



:old dude:



Si.

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Si,

In retrospect I probably should have just started with 'FlySky' in the beginning of attempting R.C. rather than using R.C. cars for electronic parts.
Would have been much easier.
But, I also learned a lot in the process.

I'd make more progress on my 0-4-0 conversion if I didn't have a number of projects going on at once.
I have a building under construction to house the rotary dump, a stub switch, tumbleweeds that need to get glued down,
and the Salt Flats extension (construction temporarily on hold due to rain).


"Looks like you mighta been RIPPED ORRRF ! by about $0.32c !! :f:"


As cheap as I am sometimes, I think I can handle the $0.32c
Maybe the difference is in the exchange rate?

Still, I think you've shown that BPRC can be inexpensive and pretty simple to do. 
The forums show that more people are getting interested.


The Roundhouse Gang is having a swap meet at the Santa Fe station in San Bernardino Saturday (no affiliation),
so I get to do a little shopping for deals and materials for future builds.
Ya never know what you might find.


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The knowledge gap that exists between BPRC newbies like myself
and some of the discussions that take place on this forum is quite wide.


I believe for instance, I know just enough about ESC boards mentioned in this topic, to be dangerous.

I assume that an ESC provides a modulated digital signal to increase or decrease the amount of current to the DC motor
(thus increasing and decreasing motor speed)

But it appears from Forum conversations that some Receivers don't come with an ESC built in.

I believe it was mentioned recently here on this Forum
that the varied requirements of different RC applications means that varied ESCs are necessary.


There are a lot of assumptions mentioned here. 
I suppose that when a person gets better and better at the electronics of BPRC modelling,
they begin to mix and match the circuitry to better fit the "space available",
to "provide the most bang for the buck" and to "best fit the Radio Control situation.


If someone gets some free time, a short dissertation on how all these functions go together,
(just a fireside conversation about how things go together and of different ways to skin a cat)
will give the readers (especially myself) more background. 


Discussing my recent advances in BPRC modelling with my brother-in-law
has often left him completely baffled at times because when we started he hadn't even heard of a LiPo battery.
So explaining what I'm doing has taken some time (we walk two miles together each morning)
and he always has me going back and re-explaining various tid-bits. 

Point is, if anyone wants to describe in 500 words or less how BPRC works best for you,
it will probably be very helpful to me
and I know darn well it will be very helpful to those new modellers who come to this Forum for start-up information. 

Dumb it down, don't immediately jump to brain surgery, Maybe make it a Children's Book. 

Include anything and everything that comes to mind
from battery protection boards to voltage increasing boards to LiPo charging challenges.


Thanks as always,

Rick

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http://freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=1221&forum_id=45

Howdy Rick

Maybe this link will explain something, it is the start of r/c on this (or any other) forum.
I hope it explains something you may want to know.
I am not a tekkie or 'lektrical egghead.
There's a bunch to read but as they say on X FILES  "the truth is out there !"

Woodie


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I would agree that the link takes you to the Woodie Greene post that outlines the beginning of BPRC in the smaller scales.

In Large Scale it has been common since the mid 1980's.
However, the BPRC used in Large Scale bears little resemblance to what is being developed for the smaller scales.
Most of the R/C for Large Scale is proprietary and is usually not compatible with any other brands of R/C.
Unlike smaller scales, Large Scale requires much higher voltages with Li-Ion 14.8v 4 cell packs common and 5 & 6 cell packs also used.
The use of LiPo batteries is very rare in the Large Scales.
Li-Ion batteries are nearly always fitted with built in PCB protection and balancing circuits which allow 2 x wire charging.

No one in Large Scale BPRC ever uses step-up regulators to achieve a higher voltage from fewer cells.
It is not really practical because as well as higher voltages, Large Scale locos need much higher Amperage.

The ESCs were once way too big for small scales and it was considered a good installation if R/C could be fitted into "0" scale locos.
Where conventional Digital Proportional R/C is used for Large Scale BPRC, it is pretty well all 2.4 Ghz.
There is very little different brand compatibility so most R/C used is also DSM2.
One thing common in Large Scale BPRC is a choice of operating methods.
You can have Centre OFF direction and speed control on one channel, or Low OFF direction and speed control using two channels.
The latter does give finer speed control because 300º is used instead of 90º for speed control.

R/C Receivers that have built in ESCs are rare on the ground.
The only ones I know of, are made by Deltang and uniquely use 2.4 GHz Spektrum R/C which is only compatible with DSM2 protocols.

BPRC using DCC is only just being marketed in Large Scales.
Where as I have seen much development work going on in the Smaller scales.
They are a much bigger market than the Larger Scales, again mainly because of the higher Voltages and Amperages required.
I have no doubt BPRC using DCC will become quite common one day.


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" I believe it was mentioned recently here on this Forum
that the varied requirements of different RC applications
means that varied ESC's are necessary "



Hi Rick :wave:



Many electronic 'concepts', as we know, are designed with a 'modular' approach in mind.

It saves designing a single & specific solution, for every single different circumstance.

Whilst some industrial applications will always use 'bespoke' single purpose designs, many do not ...

... & it is these kinds of components that are of great use, for unique 'custom' designs to be put together. :)



A computer is a good example of this. :brill:

You choose the parts you need, for the spec you want, and assemble the parts.

One could say that the computers CPU-chip, is the receiver ...

... the monitor screen is the E.S.C. ...

... the A.C. P.S.U. or battery, is the power-source ...

... & the keyboard/mouse is the transmitter.



All these components, of which there are LOADS of different types ... L:

... are all intended to be compatible with one another ...

... & 'plug n play', leaving the choice of parts & assembly to the individual user.

Same with R.C.


- - - - - - -


I Posted this in another Thread :- :moose:



" The reason for the 'modular' approach, is simple.

Not all R.C. applications require an E.S.C. Electronic Speed Controller.


For example, neither a glider nor sailboat have a motor, so don't require an E.S.C.

The receiver can control the glider or sailboats rudder servos directly.


On the other hand.

Some applications need very very high-power E.S.C.s.

Such as speed-boats or large racing-cars.

Things like big G-scale trains, also need quite large E.S.C.s


So you can see.

The 'FlySky' receiver is 'universal' in its application across many different uses.





A receiver with built in E.S.C. can only power things within it's limitations.





If you exceed those limitations, you toast the WHOLE BOARD ! ... not just the E.S.C.

An expensive business !! "


- - - - - - -


As Tony points out.

Large Scale trains require much bigger E.S.C.s & larger/higher-Voltage batteries, than even 'O'-scale.

But the actual R.C. transmitter/receiver is the same device & protocol, which is used for smaller scales as well.



It might all sound obvious. ???

But I believe that spelling out the basics like this,  A ... B ... C ... style ...

... is the way to not only explain the 'simple' stuff to newcomers who know nothing of R.C. trains ...

... but is also the way to encourage more model railroaders to 'have a go' ! :bg:



It isn't rocket-science ! ... :dope:

... & you don't need an $$$ overdraft !! :thumb:



:old dude:



Si.







Michael M
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Found these small LiPos on eBay. 

About 25 x 17 x 7mm






Si.
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Hi Michael :wave:



I'm not entirely sure if this is gonna help converting your 'Tyco' Shifter to R.C. ! L:

Obviously NOT N.G. ... but I did come across this funky proto-photo of a rather nice Pennsy switcher.





The boiler looks kinda smaller & the domes kinda bigger.

Perhaps a bit like a 1:35n2 'upscale' might look ? ???

Look at THAT rear light !! :!:



:pimp:



There are some pretty neat AND affordable LiPo batteries on eBay ! :thumb:

LOADS in fact. :shocked:

No need at all, to pay TOP DOLLAR $$$ PRICES for a nice loco battery. :)



Rocket  :brill:  Science  ?



Si.

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Thanks for the photo:2t:

About done with the new tender. 

I've got a G scale headlight similar to the one on the tender.
 
Internet has been down for the last few days.

I'll post some photos if the phone company ever gets it together.


Si.
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Another different small E.S.C. Electronic Speed Controller, available at an affordable price on eBay.






:)



Si.

Michael M
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Rick,

Being on the cheap side, I started with R.C. using the guts from cheap little remote control cars. 

Fried a few boards ... a puff of white smoke was a sure sign that I made a boo-boo.

Now I'm quite comfortable using 'FlySky' and haven't had any puffs of white smoke.


Si.
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It sounds like Rick was lucky & had the R.C. Gods on his side !  :bow:



If he'd gone & left it for 10 minutes to make a coffee   .   .   .  :w:


























SAFETY FIRST KIDS ! :old dude:



Don't think it COULDN'T happen to YOU ! :f:



:us:



Si.

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That's exactly why I quite flying drones and using large LiPos. I don't like them at all.

I just ordered some of those small E.S.C.s.
I have a 1940 something dual wheel Ford AAA look alike flatbed truck on it's way and I might have a go at that for R.C.
I'll have to see what room there is when it gets here.

Cheers

Mack


Si.
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" I hooked things up and ended up having two almost simultaneous thoughts,
Why is this not working ? and What is that sizzling sound ?

The sizzling sound was the LiPo probably self-destructing.
So I assume I crossed some wires or did something wrong.
I could hear the LiPo but at first couldn't figure out what was making that sound.
When I touched the battery it was hot and it had swelled slightly.

I immediately disconnected."



Hi Guys :w:



This kind of thing goes to show, all too clearly, that you just can't be too careful !

It doesn't have to be a fast-charged or large-battery, to go NUCLEAR !

Left unattended among papers etc. on a bench for a few minutes & the results COULD have been DEADLY !!



How big or fast-charged is a cellphone battery ?

It isn't !





Sitting on your desk with all that paperwork around it ?



BOOM !



:mex:



Si.

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Having seen all this, I'm sticking with DCC and letting you chaps blow yourselves up if you wish !

:doh:


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Nice work guys!

Dan

Last edited on Mon Mar 12th, 2018 08:42 am by dan3192

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With the billions of LiPo batteries out there (as I type on my Lithium battery powered laptop that's at least 5 years old)
the odds of burning up in a car or house fire are probably greater than this laptop catching fire.

Sure it could happen, and I could fall in the bathtub or down the stairs just as easy.


Si.
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Hi Guys :wave:



OK let's remember EXACTLY what happened here.

A guy on the Forum makes ONE WRONG CONNECTION ...

... and his battery starts fizzing, balloons & heats up !

If he had walked away & left that for just a few minutes   .   .   .   ?   ?   ?



This is VERY SERIOUS STUFF !!



I was flippant & blase about this kind of thing, when I first got my R.C. gear a few months back !

Rolled out all the usual dumb 'logic'.

Nonesense I said, It aint gonna happen to me, it only happens to idiots, it's media hype etc. etc. !

stupid, Stupid, Very VERY STUPID !!



The fundamental chemistry inside all lithium batteries, whether small or large ...

... which is what stores SO MUCH ENERGY in such a small space ...

... is essentially, with ONE small unintentional mistake ...

... A TIME BOMB WAITING TO GO OFF !!



Read what happened to Rick.

And let's realize that this has happened to a REAL PERSON WE KNOW on the Forum.

It was the result of a simple mistake, that anyone could have made.

and the results were by the sounds of things very very nearly catastrophic !



Think about it.

Then say ...

... it'll never happen to me.

Whilst the sensible folk are thinking it might & are taking precautions.



20-20 hindsight is a wonderful thing !! :dope:



:w:



Si.

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I only use Li-Ion batteries nowadays.
Metal cylindrical cells and fitted with proper PCB protection built into each pack
That makes them a lot more expensive but fortunately,
so far I have never had a failure either personally or with any of my customers.
In my case it is Large Scale with plenty of room.
The fitted PCBs do make it much easier for charging as there is no need to remove the packs for cell balancing during charging.
 
I know of only member in my Brisbane Club who uses Li-Po packs in his Large Scale locos. His packs are always removed and balanced away from his locos.

Unfortunately the cylindrical metal cased cells are usually way too big for the smaller scales.

I can only add to Si.s comments that extreme care MUST be used when wiring up, charging and discharging.

Si.
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" I just ordered some of those small E.S.C.s.
I have a 1940 something dual wheel Ford AAA look alike flatbed truck on it's way
and I might have a go at that for R.C. "



Hi Mack :wave:



Did you order the small red-board E.S.C. Electronic Speed Controller, like this one ?





I found a 3rd & different type small & affordable E.S.C. on eBay the other day as well.

I'll try and Post some pix. of it.

I'm sure there are others also.



:!:



Si.

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Hi Si.

That is the same as the three that I have on the way.
I do have a different one here as well, but it is hiding at the moment.

Mack


Si.
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" I do have a different one here as well,
but it is hiding at the moment."



Hi Mack :wave:



It's funny you should say that ! :)

My most needed tools sometimes do that as well !! :f:


;)


Another E.S.C. Electronic Speed Controller type, which MAY be available on eBay ... IF you can find it ! L:





I'm not kiddin' either ... This one IS quite hard to find ... So I've found. :P



:!:



Si.

W C Greene
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Si,

I have a quick question ( so I don't have to read earlier posts ! ).
Does this 'FlySky' Receiver/E.S.C. have proportional reverse ?
It would seem that with R.C. aircraft, there is no reverse.

Woodie


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Howdy Woodie :cb:



The simple answer is ... YES !  :)


:thumb:


The 'FlySky' Receiver & whatever E.S.C. Electronic Speed Controller that you decide to use with it ...

... COULD be used for more or less ANY type of R.C. application you care to mention. :cool:



Coming in the ultra-affordable 'FlySky' FS-GT2E twin-pack, is of course their non-aircraft transmitter ...

... WITH REVERSE. :bg:



If you happen to buy a Receiver on it's own, for the STELLA price of £3.84p inc. P&P ...

... Almost any compatible 2.4 GHz Transmitter you could wish to use, will/should work with it.



:!:



Si.

W C Greene
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OK then, this is just a Receiver without E.S.C.?

WCG


Si.
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The 'FlySky' FS-GT2E package ... is an extremely simple & easy to understand 'modular R.C. system'.  :thumb:

ANY of many different 2.4 GHz Transmitters can be used ... in addition to the one shown here.  L:

The 'FlySky' Receiver ... is used with YOUR choice of E.S.C. Electronic Speed Controller.  :)





The Transmitter included in the 'FlySky' twin-pack of both Transmitter & Receiver.





The Receiver included in the 'FlySky' twin-pack of both Transmitter & Receiver.





One of the ZILLIONS of different types of E.S.C. Electronic Speed Controllers ...

... that may be used with this 'modular R.C. system' ...

... the choice is YOURS ! 





How to very easily connect the simple components of this 'modular R.C. system.

&

Just plug yer loco into the 'Motor Connector' & your battery into the 'Battery Connector'.



:!:



Si.






Although the 'FlySky' Receiver is not shown on the box here ...

... this R.C. 'twin-pack' contains BOTH the Transmitter shown & the Receiver shown above ^^ in this Post.

If you look around on eBay ... You can get this 'twin-pack' for about $20.00c inc. P&P



You supply an E.S.C. of your choice ... A loco ! ... & a battery !!



:cool:


W C Greene
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OK then, just askin'.

Actually, I haven't bought any R.C. equipment in years being satisfied with the old timey stuff I have.
If I was starting now, I would probably go this way especially since a separate E.S.C. and Receiver could be crammed in smaller lokies and wired together.
The only space eater is the battery but they will get smaller also...just give 'em time.
I know that I could use 1 cell jobs and then step up the voltage but I have enough room for "proper" batteries in my larger scale.
Run what you brung...

Woodie-still running 27MHZ

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Okay, my 7.4 Volt Li-Po just showed up in the mail.





As you can see it's a two cell, all nicely put together at the factory.

Now I can get back to converting that Tyco Shifter.


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" Okay, my 7.4v Li-Po just showed up in the mail ...
... As you can see it's a two cell all nicely put together at the factory "



Hi Michael :wave:



What size in MMs is your new 7.4-Volt two-cell battery ?







L:



Si.

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Si.

The answer is in the number on the battery.
The standard battery numbering for LiPo cells, is first two digits = Thickness, second two digits = Width. and last two digits = Length.

The battery shown has two cells which are each 6mm Thick, 25mm Wide and 40mm Long.
The first two are sometimes shown (this example) 60 for 6mm, and sometimes 06 for 6mm.

Round cells are Diameter and Length.
Example 18650 cells are 18mm by 65mm and 14430 cells are 14mm by 43mm.

This is handy info when looking up batteries and for matching batteries to specific needs of a model.


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Si,

It's 46 x 26 x 12 mm.

Maybe a tad long, but it'll fit just fine in my tender.

Si.
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Hi Guys :wave:



Thanks for the info. on the dimensions. :thumb:



I remember the 'magic number trick' now Bob, as I read that before, which you'd Posted previously ...

... THIS time, I'll remember it, for a good indication of battery size. :)



:!:



Si.

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Can't seem to get the new Receiver I just got, to bind with the Transmitter.

I get a steady red flashing LED on the Receiver,
and when I try to bind the Transmitter (holding down the bind-button, then turning on the Tx.)
the green LED flashes quickly.

Do I have a bad Receiver ? 

The Rx. in my other loco works fine.

davecttr
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On a Deltang Rx. the green LED flashes slowly for 30 seconds than rapidly.
Only then do you press the bind button and switch on the Tx.


Si.
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Hi Michael :wave:



Did you have the 'Bind-Plug' connected to Channel-3 on the Receiver ? ???





You must have done that on your 1st Receiver for it to be working OK.

I doubt very much that the Receiver is broken, they are pretty bomb-proof, if handled properly.



:!:



Si.







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Yep.

Bind plug where it says bind. 

E.S.C. plugged into top port.

Just tried the Tx. on my other loco and it works fine.

Trying it with the new Rx. and just no luck.

Probably doing something dumb, but can't figure out what.


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Hi Michael :wave:



The E.S.C. Electronic Speed Controller, should NOT be  "plugged into top port".

It needs to be connected to Channel-2 on the 'FlySky' Receiver.

Observing the correct plug-polarity as well.





The 3-pin "top port", which is marked  VCC  (S + -)  is for connecting a power-supply ...

... when using an E.S.C. Electronic Speed Controller, WITHOUT a built-in B.E.C. Battery Eliminator Circuit ...

... or when NOT using an E.S.C. at all, such as in a motorless Glider or Sailboat.



:!:



Si.


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Still no can bind.

Bind plug in 'bind'.  ESC plugged in channel 2 (white, black, red - left to right).

Both red lights on ESC flash.  Turn on Tx. while holding down 'bind' button and green LED flashes rapidly.

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@ Michael

Try holding the bind button down, turning on the transmitter, and then powering up the receiver.
I have a similar Rx. which sometimes doesn't cooperate with the Tx. I'm using.

Good Luck!

Dan

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Wonder if maybe the ESC is having problems.

I did shorten the wires to save room.


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Dan,

Gave it a try.  No luck.

Green LED flashes rapidly on Tx. and red LED on ESC flashes.  No binding.

It was worth a try.  Thanks.

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Michael,

Try standing in a different position, like moving further away from the receiver.
How is the Rx. antenna oriented?...horizontal? vertical? a little of each? 

The transmitter antenna should be more vertical than horizontal.
Ideally, both antennas should be vertical to each other.
Can you pivot the Tx. antenna upwards?

BTW, did you say the black wire was the middle wire?
Black is usually an outside wire.
With Rx. as a reference in Post-147, wires should be white, red, black - left to right.
System won't work otherwise.   

Dan  

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You are not near a home hub or LED lighting are you? Both can interfere with your binding attempts.
I have a couple of Rx.s that took lots of attempts to bind successfully but they are OK once bound.
My Rx. and Tx. aerials are all curved, should they be straight?
Should the TX/Rx aerial orientation be parallel to each other or perpendicular?

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" Probably doing something dumb,  but can't figure out what "



Hi Michael :wave:



Yep ... I would say that your self diagnostic procedure, is probably right on track. :P

Perhaps 'THEY' are putting something in the water where you are ?


Sorry to sound like  'Pops' :old dude: ...

... But ...

... Check YOUR BLOODY WIRING !  :f:


;)


Once you've checked it ONCE ... ???

... Then check it a SECOND time ... L:
... Then BEFORE switching on, check it a THIRD time ! :brill:



" E.S.C. plugged into top port "

" white, black, red - left to right "



First of all you had the E.S.C. plugged into the WRONG set of pins on the Receiver.

Then, after swapping it to the CORRECT set of Channel-2 pins ...

... you appear to have muddled-up the 3 wire colours, when you ... " shortened the wires to save room "

Either that, or you've muddled-up Posting the description of the wire colours in the WRONG order !





The FIRST left-hand column of pins 'MARKED S' ... Should have the WHITE wire connected to it.

The SECOND middle column of pins 'MARKED +' ... Should have the RED wire connected to it.

The THIRD right-hand column of pins 'MARKED -' ... Should have the BLACK wire connected to it.



Then connect to the Receivers Channel-2.




Come on Michael ! :old dude:

To people looking in & reading this stuff, you're making it look almost impossibly difficult to get this working easily.



Kids 'Technical LEGO Sets' these days, are about TEN TIMES more difficult to wire up than this 'FlySky' gear.



There's absolutely no point in us all endlessly speculating about antennas, batteries, interference, sunspots, astrological predictions etc. ...

... if the very basic wiring is totally B%££$7$D  !  :f:



Your previous installation worked great first time, without any of these 'silly' problems at all ...

... perhaps 'THEY' had put less Flouride in the water that day ? ;)



( chew out over )



:P



Si.


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...Or...get a receiver which has a "built in" ESC. Much less BS than trying to fit several pieces of electrical bits inside the loco, etc.
I know...I know...nobody wants to hear me recommend anything but the KISS principle applies here also.

Woodie-easier is better

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Howdy Woodie :cb:



Sorry to disagree.

But your comment ^^ really isn't at all helpful whatsoever. :us:


I can't see ANY difference, between wiring 1 thing in, or 2 things in. :dope:



The required connections are so basic & simple ...

... if you can't get them right, with a totally clear & simple schematic to refer to ...

... you may as well just give up & get some clockwork trains. ???



The problem here is nothing to do with  " Much less BS "  ...

... the only  " BS "  here is  'Basic Snafu'  !



This 'FlySky' R.C. gear, is so freakin' easy to wire up, that my Granny could do it, whilst knitting in mittens !

What we're talking about here, is quite simply about planning, checking & DOUBLE-CHECKING  !!  :brill:



Saying to people that they should  " get a receiver which has a 'built in' ESC " ...

... is just about as sensible, as telling them to get a Receiver with a 'built in' battery ! :Crazy:



I am a total believer in the KISS principle. :thumb:

In fact, almost EVERYTHING that I ever do, looks straight to this very idea.

Which is exactly why I have no hesitation in endorsing the shear simplicity of this really basic system. :bg:



If you can't get this connected up OK.

You think you'll last long before you set yourself on FIRE ! and blow yourself up with yer batteries ? ;)



:f:



Si.

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As long as you have the space, that bit-by-bit approach makes sense. But you cannot deny that e.g. a DT RX65 with 6A capacity will need much less space. The choice sometimes is either space or money.

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@ Dave

From what I've read, the ideal situation is when both antennas are vertical.
The receiving antenna is less effective when it is rotated say 90 degrees,
and least effective when pointed at the transmitting antenna. 

The experts (Spektrum R/C Div., Horizon Hobby) also advise both antennas should be as straight as possible,
which is sometimes (for me) difficult to arrange. 

Here's a link to an article which talks about r/c and antennas.

https://www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-antenna.html

Dan    

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Thanks Dan, an interesting article.
None of my aerials are straight but they seem to work OK in my railway room.
Having them straight would mean a redesign of the installation and this might not be possible.

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" As long as you have the space, that bit-by-bit approach makes sense "



Hi Helmut :wave:



I'm sorry ... I just Posted this photo of the Receiver, so that the labeling on it was clearly readable.

It isn't really this size ...





... Have a look at the picture ^^ on a cellphone & it should be more or less about right.



:!:



Si.

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Helmut wrote: As long as you have the space, that bit-by-bit approach makes sense. But you cannot deny that e.g. a DT RX65 with 6A capacity will need much less space. The choice sometimes is either space or money.

Yes, and you even don't need an Rx65 for an H0 or 0n30 drive. An Rx60 is sufficient for this.
It may be easier to see that with some dimensions. 
The 3 channel FlySky Rx is, length times width,  35x22mm  and 13 mm in height
An Rx60 measures 22.5 x 11 mm with a height of maybe 5mm.
So you have an Rx and ESC on about the third part of the area of the FlySky Rx.(Surplus the integrated possibility to switch consumers on/off)
Si, I understand and respect your approach to show that one can use RC control for his trains also with a very small budget, and these components you've posted are really cheap. 
But concerning KISS principle I would also claim for me that, for a basic installation, 2 thin wires from a battery via a switch to this tiny Rx and 2 from the Rx to the motor is a far simpler installation, especially if there is small space. 

Juergen


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" The 3 channel FlySky Rx is, length times width,  35x22mm  and 13 mm in height "



Hi Juergen



Dimensional information, on all the principle components that have been discussed in this Thread, regarding 'FlySky' installations ...

... which are NOT just manufacturers-data & have been ACCURATELY MEASURED from the actual parts themselves ...

... have already been Posted, on a number of occasions, over the course of this 'FlySky' Topic.



The length, width & height dimensions, which you have ^^ Posted, DO NOT represent the correct sizes of the Receiver-board.

I assume you possibly might have quoted the dimensions of the BLACK PLASTIC-CASING illustrated ^^ above ...

... which the Receiver-board can be housed in.

As we know, Sound, D.C.C. or R.C. boards DO NOT require such plastic-casings & are simply used 'naked'.



" these components you've posted are really cheap "



I would say personally, that your choice of the word "cheap" is a bit unfortunate & generally somewhat misleading.

The 'FlySky' components are utilizing advanced & cutting-edge 2.4 GHz 'Automatic Frequency Hopping' technology.

This ensures virtually bomb-proof & interference-free control, of any radio-controlled models.
 
The 'FlySky' Receiver is however, VERY AFFORDABLE !



For anyone wanting to 'do something down', "cheap" is a great word to be describing things as.

I'd stick to 'affordable' myself & just describe some other systems as ... VERY EXPENSIVE !



" 2 thin wires from a battery via a switch to this tiny Rx and 2 from the Rx to the motor is a far simpler installation "



Sounds GREAT on paper Juergen !

However the 'reality', at least as far as I see it, is probably somewhat different !!



Many users will wish to use more than just 1 battery.

Many users may well wish to use an additional 'DC-DC Step-Up Regulator'.

Still further installations might want to introduce extra charging-sockets to the spaghetti-bowl.

So really, in terms of the number of "wires", to my way of thinking, having a built-in E.S.C. or not, makes little difference.



I would be the first to agree with anyone, that there is more than 1 way to skin a cat !

However this Thread is all about skinning that cat, using the easily available & affordable 'FlySky' based solution.

As such, it is really just so so so unbelievably TEDIOUS, beyond what I can express here ...

... when people come along, and hi-jack Threads which are intended to help users with info. on THEIR chosen R.C. system.

There are plenty of Threads in the R.C. Forum, where Members can give themselves a jolly good back-slapping regarding THEIR OWN choices.



Ideally when someone comes to get helpful & accurate information on installing & using the system THEY'VE chosen ...

... it's nice if they don't have to wade through tons of irrelevant & Off-Topic Posts on how some other different system works.

It would be extremely helpful for 'FlySky' users ...

... to have JUST ONE ! teeny-weeny little Thread on this Forum, for them to read about THEIR choices in.



:!:



Si.
 

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Si. wrote:  I would say personally, that your choice of the word "cheap" is a bit unfortunate & generally somewhat misleading. 




Si. wrote: (In the Dr. StrangeLipo thread)
....   Easy to get from tons of suppliers.

No soldering required, although pins CAN of course be soldered to if needed.

Probably easy to remove the plastic case, for an even more compact board.


And of course cheap !  .  .  .  VERY CHEAP !!


£3.84p inc. P&P   ....

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This is the ENTIRE TEXT of my original Post ... Which is from a different Topic & was Posted on ... 9th May 2017



- - - - - - -



In looking at all the possible options for the project, one thing was paramount ...

... COST !

AND high-quality !!

It seems to me that economy AND quality, are easily achievable TOGETHER, no problem.



I might come back and describe another option I came up with also.

But I do have an R.C. receiver winging it's way to me at this very moment.



I went for a 'modular' approach, rather than an 'all on 1 board' scenario.

This will allow easy & cheap 'swop-out' of any individual failed components, in that unlikely event.



I looked at 27MHz AM/FM, 40MHZ, 35MHZ (I think ?) & a couple of others as well.

The overwhelming conclusion I came to, was that a 2.4GHz system, was by far the most economical & easily available.



It was not possible, despite a lot of looking, at both new & 2nd hand R.C. gear ...

... to buy ANY receiver, as far as I can tell, that is cheaper than this one  .  .  .



Easy to get from tons of suppliers.

No soldering required, although pins CAN of course be soldered to if needed.

Probably easy to remove the plastic case, for an even more compact board.


And of course cheap !  .  .  .  VERY CHEAP !!


£3.84p inc. P&P


It's not actually possible to get a whole pint of beer for that these days.


( they can also be bought as a Rx. & Tx. 'FlySky' twin-set, for around £20 inc. P&P )



- - - - - - -



Si.






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OK then Si, my post "isn't really helpful" and then you delete another of my posts! I do not appreciate the way this or other threads are being "moderated" and I will probably not post any more here. Let's see if you delete this post.

Woodie C. Greene

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" OK then Si, my post "isn't really helpful" and then you delete another of my posts!
I do not appreciate the way this or other threads are being "moderated" and I will probably not post any more here.
Let's see if you delete this post. "



Hi Woodie.



No your Post No.154, In my opinion, wasn't the slightest bit helpful.

What do you want me to say ? ...



" Or...get a receiver which has a "built in" ESC.
Much less BS than trying to fit several pieces of electrical bits inside the loco, etc.
I know...I know...nobody wants to hear me recommend anything but the KISS principle applies here also."



We are talking about a SIMPLE wiring problem in the Thread, by the looks of it.

I fail to see how what you Posted is any help whatsoever.



The Post you made is STILL THERE THOUGH !

So I'm not sure what Post of yours YOU THINK was deleted ...

... because there has been NO POST BY YOU REMOVED !



You need to have a good think & try and remember if you Posted anything after that.

Because what I can tell you is, simply by looking at what is here ...

... You Posted NOTHING after Post No.154.



I think you need to get your FACTS RIGHT before you blurb out what you just have.



Si.


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Update:

Got a new ESC and used a freshly charged battery.

Still will not bind.

In my searchings on the internet I recall an article about how FlySky had a problem with a batch of receivers some time back.

By simple deduction it's got to be the receiver.  So, I've ordered another one to find out for sure.

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Hi Michael :wave:



In all the many years that I have handled & used microchips or circuit-boards ...

... I can honestly say that I have NEVER to my knowledge, had a 'factory-fresh' item that doesn't work as it should.



However there are 2 post-factory causes of failure in my experience, that are VERY common indeed.

1. Applying REVERSED-POLARITY Voltage to such devices, which CAN result in immediate destruction of the device.

2. Static-discharge from the user themselves, when handling & installing such devices.



It seems from what you said earlier, that you HAD applied REVERSED-POLARITY Voltage to the Receiver ...

... this could have very easily, permanently damaged the circuitry instantly, as it was applied.



I have Nylon carpet & laminate-flooring here where I live, as do many other people.

I also wear a certain amount of Polyester clothing & shoes such as 'trainers'.


Scuffing around on these types of floors, wearing many modern clothes etc. ...

... can generate a HIGH-VOLTAGE STATIC-CHARGE of many many 1000s of Volts.

Not good when working with 'digital' devices that will only tolerate 5 Volts.


When handling these types of chips & boards, I will ALWAYS touch a metal-waterpipe BEFORE touching the device.

This is an easy & effective way of discharging ones own bodies built-up static-charge.

Even after that, I also ALWAYS avoid touching microchips & suchlike by their connections whenever possible.

Static discharges can also very easily come from soldering-iron tips as well.


I have not actually ever read here on this Forum, advice that's been given on handling these things safely.



As for 'alleged' faulty-batches ...

... I have actually read a lot of what I consider to be 'hype' from certain major R.C. manufacturers ...

... often speaking on THEIR OWN sponsored Web-Forums ...

... 'claiming' all sorts of so called quality-control issues, with THEIR RIVALS products !


Users feedback in these very same Forums, tends NOT TO SUPPORT these fairly suspect self-serving 'claims'.

They have an obvious vested-interest in spreading doubt about their more affordable competitors products !



:!:



Si.


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Si,

It's quite possible that I screwed up.  Another receiver will tell for sure.

The first one went so well.

I'm just very frustrated that the second install seems to be causing me no end of trouble.


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Hi Michael :wave:



I'm not a betting man, but ...

... I would probably bet, that it was 'reversed-polarity' Voltage, which destroyed the Receiver.



The 3-way connector from the E.S.C. Electronic Speed Controller, with the 'White-Red-Black' Left-Right sequence of wires ...

... as it comes, even if it is plugged into the Receiver the wrong way round ...

... would 'probably' not actually cause any damage to the Receivers circuits ...

...since either way round, the 'Red' + Voltage wire is always still on the center-pin.



But ...

... because that 3-way connector was RE-WIRED as a 'White-Black-Red' Left-Right sequence ...

... & the 'Red' + Voltage wire, was no longer on the correct center-pin ...

... the supplied + Voltage from the E.S.C. went the WRONG WAY, straight up the Receivers 'Ground' pin !  :shocked:



It is annoying, even more so, since your 1st install of the 'FlySky' gear, was such a great success ! :cool:


As Murphy :f: once said :-


" Sometimes $4!7 just hits the ... "






;)



Si.


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Si,

Michael described that the LED's of the receiver were flashing, how could he have reversed polarity then ? ? ?


What Battery voltage do you use Michael ?  

Juergen


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I'm using a 7.4 Volt LiPo battery.



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" Michael described that the LED's of the receiver were flashing, how could he have reversed polarity then ? ? ? "



Hi Juergen



If you READ THE THREAD ...

... what HE DOES describe, is LEDs flashing on the TRANSMITTER & E.S.C. ELECTRONIC SPEED CONTROLLER ...

... AFTER he has re-plugged the 3-way cable from the E.S.C. onto the CORRECT Channel-2 pins ...

... the cable however, is STILL wired up INCORRECTLY, according to what he has described, as REVERSED-POLARITY ! ! !



" Both red lights on ESC flash.  Turn on Tx. while holding down 'bind' button and green LED flashes rapidly."

" Green LED flashes rapidly on Tx. and red LED on ESC flashes.  No binding."



If you READ THE THREAD Juergen, Michael has already said he is using a 7.4 Volt LiPo battery.



Si.


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Si, please ...

Michael M wrote: Can't seem to get the new Receiver I just got, to bind with the Transmitter.

I get a steady red flashing LED on the Receiver,
and when I try to bind the Transmitter (holding down the bind-button, then turning on the Tx.)
the green LED flashes quickly.

Do I have a bad Receiver ? 

The Rx. in my other loco works fine.


Michael, 

did you already try to bind with the receiver powered up directly from your battery, without connecting the ESC?

Juergen

Last edited on Mon Apr 9th, 2018 01:22 am by Toeffelholm

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Hi again Juergen.



Try READING CAREFULLY what I have Posted.



What you are quoting ^^ above, is what Michael said ...

... BEFORE ! ! ! ... THE 3-WAY CABLE FROM THE E.S.C. WAS PLUGGED INTO THE CORRECT CHANNEL ! ! !



After this cable was plugged into the CORRECT channel, he said :-


" Both red lights on ESC flash.  Turn on Tx. while holding down 'bind' button and green LED flashes rapidly."

" Green LED flashes rapidly on Tx. and red LED on ESC flashes.  No binding."


His 3-way cable-socket though, even after connecting to the CORRECT channel, was STILL REVERSE-POLARITY WIRED ! ! !



Juergen, If you look back & READ THE THREAD ...

... Michael has already installed this 'FlySky' gear, with TOTAL SUCCESS previously.



His battery DOES NOT have a connector that is compatible with the E.S.C.s 0.1" pitch pins.

He is also WELL AWARE from his previous install, that you DO NOT plug that battery DIRECTLY into the Receiver.



Si.






Juergen, if you look back & READ THE THREAD carefully, this schematic has been Posted many many times throughout the text.


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Juergen,

The battery plugs into the ESC.

Don't see any way of trying to connect the battery directly to the Rx.

The battery only has two leads; red and black.





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I would build an adapter cable, Michael.But I think you haven't yet a box of RC odds and sods to have parts for this?

But I think you may already have powered your Rx correctly.  Did you get a red flashing light on the Receiver in each of your tests?  By the way, during binding process your ESC only serves as power supply, so it doesn't matter if it is plugged in ch1 or ch2, or VCC. So binding should have worked on your first trial as well.

But you also posted
Michael M wrote: Still no can bind.

Bind plug in 'bind'.  ESC plugged in channel 2 (white, black, red - left to right).

Both red lights on ESC flash.  Turn on Tx. while holding down 'bind' button and green LED flashes rapidly.



It should be white, red, black. So far Si is right, if this is your orientation of colors at the receiver, holding it the way that you can read the labeling. Please check this once more.
Or better, just make a photo of your binding setup with one of the receivers you have.

Juergen

Last edited on Mon Apr 9th, 2018 12:44 pm by Toeffelholm

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Michael, I think this can solve your problem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep0nZirWKSQ


Juergen

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" Juergen, The battery plugs into the ESC.
Don't see any way of trying to connect the battery directly to the Rx."


- - - - - - -


" I would build an adapter cable, Michael.
But I think you haven't yet a box of RC odds and sods to have parts for this "



! ! !  WARNING  ! ! !





UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD A 7.4 VOLT BATTERY EVER BE CONNECTED DIRECTLY TO THIS RECEIVER ! ! !

THE VOLTAGE FROM A BATTERY OF THIS TYPE IS WAY TOO HIGH FOR A DEVICE INTENDED FOR ONLY 5 VOLTS ! ! !

PLUGGING THIS 2-CELL BATTERY TYPE INTO THE RECEIVER DIRECTLY OR BY ADAPTER CABLE WILL DESTROY IT ! ! !






:f:



Si.


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" Michael, I think this can solve your problem "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep0nZirWKSQ



Hi Juergen.



If you READ THE THREAD ...

... Michael has already stated what he has done, concerning the connecting of the Bind-Plug ! ! !


" Bind plug where it says bind. 

E.S.C. plugged into top port."


Quite clearly, he DOES NOT have the same model of Receiver, which is referred to in the Link ^^ that you Posted.



Si.


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Si,

Don't worry,
I did not plug the 7.4 Volt battery directly into the Receiver.


Juergen,

Thanks for the link.
I tried moving the binding-plug around to other ports, but didn't get a red LED light on the Receiver.
To get a red flashing LED light, the binding-plug has to be in the bind-port.

It was worth a try.


I've got a new Receiver on the way.
Should be here in a few days.

It's frustrating dealing with this.
But as Si. has pointed out before,
the parts are not expensive,
so it's no big loss.


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Michael, Si is right for the old FS-GR3E Version. These can handle 4V up to 6V.
Actual Version is FS-GR3F, These can handle up to 8,4V. 

Did you check the order of wire colors on your power supply plug on your receiver?

Si,
 With a maximum supply Voltage of 6V one is forced to use an ESC with BEC or to use a Voltage regulator or step down converter if a 2cell Lipo, LiFePo etc. is used.Not very comfortable.

Juergen




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" With a maximum supply Voltage of 6V one is forced to use an ESC with BEC
or to use a Voltage regulator or step down converter if a 2cell Lipo, LiFePo etc. is used.
Not very comfortable."



Hi Juergen



There is ABSOLUTELY NO NEED AT ALL to use any complex or expensive 'Voltage-regulators' or 'step-down converters' etc.



All the E.S.C.s that have been illustrated repeatedly throughout this Thread & the one Michael is using ...

... are both AFFORDABLE & SIMPLE, with no extra 'Voltage-regulators' or 'step-down converters' being required.



ANY TYPE OF 'FlySky' RECEIVER CAN BE USED WITH THESE E.S.C.s, WITHOUT ANY POWER SUPPLY PROBLEMS.



The E.S.C. 'Electronic Speed Controllers' ALL HAVE 'built-in' B.E.C. 'Battery Elimination Circuits' ...

... to supply the required 5 Volts D.C. power-supply, for the 'FlySky' Receivers shown in this Thread.



I have no idea what you mean by ... "one is forced to use" ? ... WE WANT TO USE AN E.S.C. with a B.E.C. ! ! !

I also do not have any idea whatsoever, quite what you are trying to say by ... "Not very comfortable" ...

... unless of course, you are referring to all these extra & unnecessary circuits you mention ?





The setup above ^^ that is being used, is not only affordable; it is wonderfully simple & straightforward to implement as well ...

... needing nothing extra or complex to power the Receiver, other than the E.S.C. itself !



Si.



THE 'FlySky' RECEIVER MODELS ILLUSTRATED IN THIS THREAD, ARE DESIGNED FOR 5 VOLT USE ONLY ! ! !





! ! !  WARNING  ! ! !





UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD A 7.4 VOLT BATTERY EVER BE CONNECTED DIRECTLY TO THESE RECEIVERS ! ! !

THE VOLTAGE FROM A 2-CELL BATTERY OF THIS TYPE IS TOO HIGH FOR A DEVICE INTENDED TO USE ONLY 5 VOLTS ! ! !

PLUGGING A 7.4 VOLT BATTERY DIRECTLY INTO THESE RECEIVERS OR BY ADAPTER CABLE WILL DESTROY THE UNIT ! ! !





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Hope you can see how I hooked everything up.

Here's a close-up photo of the Receiver.


The Bind-Plug is in  'BIND/CH3'

The Receiver-Connector is in  'CH2'


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Hi Michael :wave:



Erm ... ??? ?


Have you RE-WIRED the 3-way cable-socket coming from the E.S.C. since you last Posted about it ?


The sequence of wire-colours was discussed at GREAT LENGTH earlier in the Thread.


It appears from your photo ^^ above, that you have the wires in the CORRECT sequence now ...

... 'White-Red-Black' ... & therefore there is now NO Reversed-Polarity in the above ^^ photo.


What's the story on this wiring ? ... ???

... You reported previously, that it was in the WRONG sequence of 'White-Black-Red'.


Have you re-wired that connector since your initial testing ? 



:us:



Si.


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Si,

Maybe I posted the color sequence wrong before.
But right now I'm using the new ESC I just received to be on the safe side.

A simple question?
The receiver I have seems to be a little different than the ones you've been posting.
They both say Model: FS-GR3E.
But yours have a number 0678 at the bottom, where mine does not.
Would that make any difference?


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" A simple question?
The receiver I have seems to be a little different than the ones you've been posting.
They both say Model: FS-GR3E.
But yours have a number 0678 at the bottom, where mine does not.
Would that make any difference? "



Hi Michael :wave:



NO ... That would NOT make any difference.

They are ALL the regular 5 Volt powered 'FlySky' standard 3-Chanel Receivers.

The IMPORTANT labeling, is that which is identifying the connection-pins.

The other figure you mention, is probably just a 'Batch-Number' perhaps.



- - - - - - -



" Maybe I posted the color sequence wrong before "



Erm ...  ???  ?


Well I never !  :shocked:

What's all this MAYBE ? ?  :f:

You either DID ... or you DIDN'T  ? :us:

You're telling me you DON'T KNOW ?  :dope:



Is anyone Posting on this Thread ACTUALLY READING IT ?  :time:



There is very little point, in attempting to do technical fault-finding help ...

... if the people THINKING they are doing it, aren't even paying attention & READING THE THREAD ...

... & don't even seem to know, if they HAVE, or HAVE NOT, Posted the simple relevant and CORRECT information needed !  :Crazy:



:doh:   :doh:   :doh:   :doh:   :doh:



Si.



:sad:


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I daresay 90% of the postings in forums are due to people not having read what was written before.

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Update:

I visited the local hobby shop that sells RC stuff and took along the FlySky transmitter, 2 receivers, and the 2 ESCs.  Explained to the guy that no matter what I did I couldn't get it to bind.  After about 20 minutes, with plugging and unplugging components, and gathering a few on-lookers, it was determined that the transmitter was at fault.  It binded (bound?) to the first receiver fine, and still works, but the transmitter just simply refuses to bind to any other receiver.

Maybe it was just a fluke, or maybe Bill's Law kicking in (Bill's Law specifically states that it covers ANYTHING that Murphy may have forgot, omitted, or plain didn't know in the first place. Therefore if it can happen it WILL happen to ME).

I did pick up a replacement transmitter and receiver so that i can move ahead with my project until I can get my hands on another FlySky transmitter.

Si.
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Hi Michael :wave:



That's handy I guess, having a store near by.

It sounds like a potentially very oDd problem indeed !



So just to be clear ... L:

Your 1st Transmitter still works OK with your Receiver No.1 :)

Your 1st Transmitter still DOESN'T work with Receiver No.2 :f:


Now the question, just so I understand clearly. ???

Your 1st Transmitter has been tested with a THIRD RECEIVER and will NOT bind to it ? :us:



:!:



Si.


Michael M
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Si,

You got it.  Transmitter works with the first receiver (#1) I got just fine.  Transmitter will not bind to receiver #2 or receiver #3.  Tried both ESCs with #2 & #3 receivers and still won't bind.  All done by the guy behind the counter (the expert?) along with a few on-lookers and their comments (you know how everyone has an opinion).

When I explained what I was doing with the Tx/Rx the people at the hobby shop showed some interest. 

bobquincy
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As far s I can find most receivers do not send any data back to the transmitter.  The xmtr sends data to the receiver indicating how it will hop and the receiver binds with the same hopping algorithm.

If this is the case then the transmitter should not know or care what receiver it is binding to as long as the receiver uses the same protocol (there are many under the name "spread spectrum").

Or all this may be incorrect, if anyone has more information (verified) please post it.


boB

Mack Saunders
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Actually, most radios have the capability of sending back info. It is called telemetry. Some do the basic battery power level as standard (Graupner for one) and the rest use special, brand specific sensors to send a raft of info including pressure and temperature back to the LCD screen of the radio. Just in the last couple of years, I was racing r/c sailboats and it was important to know how much power was left in the on board battery. A quick look at the screen told me that.

As far as I know (30 years playing with r/c) receivers only worked well with the same brand transmitter, and most won't work at all with another brand.  "Spread Spectrum" technology is a description of how 2.4 systems work and all of the 2.4 radios use it. It does not make those radio bits compatible.

Now, admittedly we are talking about very short range here, and the vehicle being controlled is not going to drop from the sky and possibly kill someone. In my experience, the best results are with same brand components.

I do see on the ebay stores, some receivers that say they are xxx compatible. I have no experience with them so I don't know.

Mack

bobquincy
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I am guessing (and that is all it is) the FlySky (and generic) 2-4 channel receivers do not include telemetry functions, that it is all one-way communications between the xmtr and rcvr.  If that is so the xmtr has no way of knowing what/how many/what type of rcvr it is binding with.  If the data and checksum is good the binding will be successful but that is not what MichaelM is experiencing.  It may not be the transmitter since it does bind with a rcvr.

boB

Michael M
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My thinking is that it's very unlikely that both FlySky receivers would be bad.  And, after having everything tried at the LHS it certainly appears that I got a bum FlySky transmitter.  It binded (bound?) with my very first receiver, and now won't go with any others.

I haven't completely given up on FlySky.  I'll probably get another transmitter soon, then I'll know for sure.

Si.
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Hi Guys :wave:



My 'feeling' is that somehow I kinda doubt that ANY of the equipment is faulty at all.

I can't help wondering if there isn't a very simple issue here, that so far hasn't been spotted.



It's easy to blame failed equipment, such as a transmitter, but I would tend to think the same as Bob ...

... that transmitter IS WORKING with a standard Receiver. :thumb:



These things are at most 2 or 3 microchips.

My general experience would suggest that if even ONE component in the Transmitter was bust, NOTHING would work.

But it still does !



I somehow doubt that Receiver No.2 or No.3 are busted either.

So what IS the problem ... :us:



This may seem like a shot in the dark ...

... But does the 'Bind-Plug' assembly being used, with it's thin-wire-lead ACTUALLY conduct eeelectrons ? ???



L:



Si.



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