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Alan Sewell
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I have just joined Freerails after some prompting from member Reg Hearn.
So thought I would give a heads up on who I am what do I model.

So I am Alan Sewell, married with three grown and flown children and live in Hertford UK about 20 miles north of London.
I have been semi-retired for the past five years but still do some work as an accountant/ consultant to a transport museum.
My modelling, and railfan, experience goes back to the mid-1960’s when I visited the slate quarries in North Wales, and then other industrial railroads in the UK and Europe and got hooked on this type of operation.

This using UK equipment was never satisfactory, but then I discovered North American prototypes and especially logging/short line railroads and HO scale equipment.
I have now been building my home logging empire, Andrews Lumber Co in various forms for over thirty years.
This is now an HO-scale freelance standard-gauge logging and forest products railroad, based on the operations, equipment etc. used by the Simpson Timber Co and the Weyerhaeuser Co in western Washington.

I have assumed that the company operates a large sawmill and pulp mill on the north bank of the Columbia River, a few miles downstream from Longview WA.
A logging railroad runs from this into the coastal mountains, in area in which the Long-Bell and Crown Zellerbach companies ran railroad logging operations until the 1950's.
The mill's finished products are shipped out on the company's own shortline, interchanging with the BN/NP, MILW & UP mainline from Seattle to Portland at Longview Junction.

In the real world, Andrews Lumber Corporation exists in a 14 x 12 conversion to our loft.
Trackwork is largely complete and most scenery complete in the mill area.
I can operate in what I hope is a prototypical manner using Lenz DCC.
This is presently in a late 50’s early 60’s timeframe using mainly first generation diesels, but with some steam hanging on in log spur/work train roles.

The main headquarters camp and the shortline/Class I railroad junction are still in the plywood pacific stage as I had to them  tear down to do some re-working but I hope to get back to scenery during the next year.
I also intend to run more modern operations (say 1970-now) as well and have alternative Andrews Forest Products units to work this.

I guess this is not the usual “rolling rust bucket" narrow gauge logging layout, but I am interested (my wife might say obsessed) with building and operating in a prototypical manner and collecting information is important.
I have been to the Pacific Northwest on four occasions in 1989/1999 and 2007/2015 visiting Simpson at Shelton, Weyerhaeuser at Longview and Klamath Falls and the Western Forest Products Englewood railroad on Vancouver Island as well as a number of smaller operations.

These visits have helped me understand how logging railroads operated, as well as giving the perspective which you get from seeing the real thing.
A big bonus was spending some time with John Henderson and following this with almost weekly e-mails.
His death left a big hole in the knowledge of logging and I lost a friend as well.

I know Reg has posted some recent photos of my modelling and I will hope to share progress or not with the group.
Hope this is of interest and I will be able to contribute in the future.

Best wishes
Alan


Si.
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Hi Alan :wave:



Good to see you Posting here on Freerails. :)

I borrowed this  C :cool: :cool: L   photo, which Reg Posted, of Alans railroad. :thumb:





Trains, logging, dozers, junkque ... What more could one want ? ! :bg:

Perhaps Alan can explain  .  .  . L:



:moose:



Si.


Alan Sewell
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The photo is a general view of part of the HO-scale mill yard at "Jennis" WA.

Mill switcher Alco S-2 #111 and caboose are at the railroad dispatcher’s office,
and Hartford & Cowlitz FM H10-44 D-2 sits on the engine house lead.

The two tracks next to the Alco are the empty yard (Creek Yard).

In the background is the dry lumber shed with the lumber mill off to the left.

Fuel oil/diesel and water tanks are on the edge of Jennis Creek.

Part of the woods diesel is lurking behind the oil tank.

Hope that makes sense.

Alan


W C Greene
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Howdy Alan and welcome to Freerails. On another post, we were talking about the apparent lack of modern standard gauge logging layouts...and you have built a nice one. Please send more photos, we love photos!

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What Woodie said.....more photos please.

ohh, and welcome to the forum.

Peter


Ken C
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Alan

Welcome to the group.

Nice looking layout and concept.
Looking forward to more photos of the layout.

Interesting point about the WFP Englewood operation, is that they also served a mine / mill operation along their line.
Just a added twist to a logging operation.

Ken C
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Lee B
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Alan Sewell wrote:
This is now an HO-scale freelance standard-gauge logging and forest products railroad, based on the operations, equipment etc. used by the Simpson Timber Co and the Weyerhaeuser Co in western Washington.


Alan,
Welcome to the forum!

Sadly, Simpson abandoned their railroad operations out of Shelton not long ago and Weyerhaeuser did the same out of Longview.
I live in this general area, and it's sad to watch the last two logging railroads in the US stop running.





There's a group looking to run trains out of Shelton on Simpson's tracks.
They have some passenger cars stored at Chehalis (on the former Milwaukee Road tracks),
waiting for a time when the Puget Sound and Pacific RR can get them out there.
They have at least one of the SW switchers donated to their effort by the company that owns Simpson.
The roundhouse in Shelton is still there, but probably not for much longer.

http://www.ifiberonenewsradio.com/news/local_news/historic-railroad-museum-project-on-track/article_1fe8a7a4-58f7-11e6-b34b-076f0f9bcbe2.html

And of course, I model a RR on the opposite side of the country!


Alan Sewell
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Yes I know both those operations and was saddened when Simpson closed.
I think there must have been some desire by the Simpson family shareholders to get out.

Weyerhaeueser also seems to have cut back,
although when I visited the mill in 2015 it was still an interesting rail operation but not the woods ops I saw in 1999.

Now I understand WFP at Englewood have closed the railroad so my modelling will be of history for even a "modern" logger.

Best wishes
Alan


Herb Kephart
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Welcome Allen.

Glad to see that you thought enough of us to join up!

And Reg, Thanks for encouraging Allen!

As everyone else has mentioned, we love pictures, even if they are of unfinished projects.

The one thing that we stress is to have fun.

Hope to hear a lot more from you.

Herb


Michael M
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Alan,

Welcome aboard!

There's nothing like visiting the sites that you want to model.
Photos and maps don't always cut it.
Often you need to experience the 'feel' of the area you're trying to re-create.

The California Western between Willits and Fort Bragg is a standard gauge railroad that use to be a logging line.
Now it's there for the tourist trade.
They still have some neat equipment to see including The Skunk.

I hand made a few trees for a past On30 layout using fern for the branches.
It wasn't hard to do, but it was time consuming especially the 18" and 24" tall trees.

Like other have requested please keep the photos coming!


Alan Sewell
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When I joined I posted a few thoughts on my modelling. As that seemed to be of interest I decided to open a new topic where I could share progress or otherwise on my HO scale freelance Andrews forest company rail roads. In case you Ask Andrew is my son, Jennis is from one daughter Jenny and Caroline Meadows Camp for my other daughter
 
Back in 1979 I discovered US modelling and LOGGING railroads. Now here was my sort railroad, with all the right atmosphere interesting equipment and operations. What was more models were available which were appropriate for these railroads, everything didn't need scratch building or kit bashing, and the models ran better than anything I was used to. I had seen the light!
 
By 2011 I had  finally decided on a geographic location for the layout. Having wandered around the state of Washington the layout is now fixed on the north bank of the Columbia a little downstream from Longview. I was drawn to setting my railroad in this area for a number of reasons. Weyerhaeuser and Long Bell built large sawmills and pulp/paper plants here. The Longview Portland and Northern provided switching not only for Long Bell but other industries and there was a connection to the UP/NP/GN & MILW on what is now the “I-5” corridor from Seattle to Portland. I could if I wanted have power from a number of roads working the interchange traffic. My favorite operation for a number of reasons is  Simpson Lumber out of Shelton but I wanted a company owned shortline like the Columbia and Cowlitz and as I said a connection to the Seattle Portland corridor.  The track plan of  the mill area is however based loosely on the yards used by the Simpson Timber Company at Shelton, but VERY much compressed. I have a plan of these yards as they were in the 1950's and in the early 1980's and even compressed this would require a space 30'x 20'! The company “captive shortline” the Hartford & Cowlitz runs from the mythical town of Jennis upstream to Longview. From Jennis the Andrews company logging railroad heads north into the hills arriving at headquarters camp ( Caroline Meadows /Camp 16 ). Again track is down but no scenery as yet
 
Jennis has a sawmill and a pulp mill so traffic is inbound logs/woodchips and chemicals and outbound lumber, plywood and pulp or fibre board. I will post a sketch plan of this later.
I like the diesel locos used on logging railroads and I did not want to model the complications of an actual logging "side" or "landing". Therefore the decision to model the post war period, a decision helped by the photographs and other material I had collected dating from the 1950’s to  now.  The lumber company motive power included both rod and geared logging lokeys  but most I have in reserve or stored awaiting scrapping. I now use  EMD/Alco switchers with one or two steam relegated to an un-modelled branch above camp 16 or occasional work train.  Rolling stock is predominately 40 foot connected log cars (aka skeleton cars ) run in sets of 5-6. In addition there are tank cars, moving cars  ballast hoppers, a number of cabooses and crew and supply cars along with the ubiquitous speeders. The shortline uses a FM 10-44 switcher and has its own caboose. 40- and 50- foot cars are used in interchange service with local roads predominating
 
Operations comprise switching empty and loaded cars around the mill. Three runs per day to the Longview Junction by the shortline loco, which also makes up the outbound train and switches loads from the pulp mill. Two or three locos can be used between the dump and the woods including switching at the Headquarters. Dumping logs at the mill is handled either by the mill switcher or the woods locos dependant on traffic requirements. As I said earlier around 1960 is the time frame of current operations. I am planning for other time frames and have developed a “company history” of its rail operations to inform this, based on events from Simpson/Weyerhaeuser and to a lesser extent Rayonier. If anyone is interested I can post  a copy
 
I was requested to post some more photos  so here are some recent ones. I apologise for the lack of backdrop  but I need to get some photos I took around Longview in 2015 printed and I do take time to do things. It’s more fun sometimes playing with the trains!!!!
 
Alan

 






#1002 switching loaded cars after arrival from the woods with mill switcher #111 waiting for next move.








Lee B
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Great work.

Makes me miss the logging railroads in the area, as I live among all the lines you used for inspiration for your layout...


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Great contribution, Alan.

Welcome to Freerails.


Si.
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Hi Alan :wave:



GREAT to see you got a Thread for your operation ! :)

Nice ^^ photos !!



I could EASILY get into mooodern HO logging ( don't tempt me though ! ) L:

Even have some HO diesels & log-cars. :shocked:



Looks like you got a good space to build in Alan & have been busy ! :thumb:

Keep the pix. & stories coming.



C :cool: :cool: L   subject.



:moose::moose::moose::moose::moose:



Si.


Alan Sewell
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Thanks for the favourable comments so far.
As I said I am posting additional photo.





This shows the mill switcher moving the cut up to the unloader.
This is a Clyde Loggers special I had commissioned.
I am building (or attempting to) a model of the steam unloader used at Shelton.
However the crane or one like it was I think used at Shelton.

I will probably post the track plan next

Best wishes
Alan


Alan Sewell
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As I said I am attaching a sketch plan of the Mill at "Jennis".





This covers an area of around 13x11 feet.

I may add a spur into a plywood mill near the dry shed and also lengthen the chemical spur for the pulp mill sometime during 2018.
But only when I have done more of the scenery

Alan


Ken C
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Alan

Just as a note of interest, re your chemical track. The type of pulp mill would determine what chemical's would be delivered.

A Sulphite mill would use Liquid Sulpher, Limestone & Chlorine.

A Sulphate mill would use Potash, Limestone & Chlorine.

I spent 3 years working in a Pulp Mill on the North Coast of British Columbia, but that was a long while back (1967-1969)

Ken
GWN

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Alan Sewell wrote: ... and I do take time to do things.
It’s more fun sometimes playing with the trains!!!!


My understanding is that's what they are there for although they sometimes can be a bit of a distraction. :)


Lee B
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You could always model a through track as the Shelton facility was serviced by what was the Northern Pacific, now the Puget Sound & Pacific. Through trains go by there every now and then with 'special' trains holding rocket motors, fuel rods and re-entry vehicles (in other words, nuclear weapons) from the nuclear submarine base at Bangor, WA, north of Shelton. I think there are more actively deployed nuclear weapons just north of there than any other place in the US. It made for an interesting contrast with what normally went on there on the railroad. There were also passenger trains that came in and out of there in the past:




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Lee:
Quite a bit of other traffic goes through Shelton on the PS&P.  In addition to the lumber that goes out of the mill on the Shelton water front, there is the garbage train.
There also used to be rail service to some of the industries north of town, in the Johns Prairie area, served off the marshaling yard east of Johns Prairie.  I don't know if any of those industries are currently using rail service. 
The garbage train is a unit train of containers that transport trash from a transfer site near Belfair to Arlington, Oregon.  Containers full of trash come to Belfair by truck from all over the West Sound area.  
There are also other industries between Shelton and Bangor served by the railroad, including the Bremerton Naval Shipyard, which receives a lot of different kinds of materials and supplies by rail.  
If memory serves, there is a propane dealer in the Silverdale area that receives gas by rail.  I know there is one near Kamilche that does, but that is west of Shelton.  
The PS&P has a history of encouraging businesses that require rail service to locate along their routes.  
The railroad also seems to use some sidings in Shelton to park locomotives.  I frequently see more power parked in Shelton than I do in Elma, the nominal headquarters for the PS&P.  There are almost always four axle units parked in Shelton.  I rarely see four axle units in Elma.  Almost all the power I see west of Shelton is six axle.  
The combination of the Simpson line and the PS&P would make a great layout.  I contemplated it, but I don't really have the space.
Reg

Alan Sewell
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Happy New Year to all – although that seems a LONG while ago.

Apologies for not posting, but have been up and down to Edinburgh Scotland ( a 700 mile round trip from home ),
helping my daughter move and keeping the grandchildren out of the way- a full time job.
However thanks for the recent comments.

My reply on the chemical spur is that the pulp mill was built in the late 1940’s as a market pulp kraft mill.
So chemicals are caustic soda, chorine and sulphuric acid plus some cleaning chemical.
I have only two car spots and use some generic tank cars, but as I said I hope to increase this later in 2018.

I take the point about the run through Shelton to Bremerton as additional traffic,
but I tried to model the track layout at Shelton and could not make it fit.

There are a few Simpson/Shelton features.
The woods track crossing the street to enter the mill.
The engine house and dispatchers office over the creek and near the street.
The dump tracks running through the mill site.
But that is all I could fit.
The short line has more from Longview than Shelton.

In spite of the Christmas/New Year events I have done some work on roughing in the woods camp, as you can see it is not just plywood.
But I am operating it for a while before doing too much scenery.
That should start next month.

Best wishes
Alan





Alan Sewell
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Another view of the plywood version of Camp 16.





Reg H
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Alan:

Great stuff.
Space limitations can always be a bit frustrating.  


Si.
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Hi Alan :wave:


Good idea, running a few ^^ ops. before finalizing Camp-16. L:


Looks pretty good ^^ though.

I'm sure you've got it sorted. :thumb:


Gotta say again ... :old dude:

... HO modern(ish) logging is a great theme to follow.



I like the squat looking water-tower, with the 'logging' style footings.

Your string of camp-cars looks pretty nice as well. :)



Keep it coming Alan.

All the best, from the other side of the concrete-jungle. ;)



:moose:



Si.


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The layout looks fine to me, lots of details to enjoy.

Regards Peter M

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By the way Alan I still exhibit a small layout called Two Sister’s Farm which is 1/32 scale narrow gauge. It is very loosely based on a narrow gauge farm estate railway found on the Lincolnshire Fens in the late 1950’s. At one time there were over fifty small railways on many farms, mostly powered by horse but a couple of the larger operations used small diesels and one even steam.
The model is more what might have been rather than what actually existed. It is a little different to most narrow models by virtue of the various powered vehicles used on the farm. All a bit of fun and not to be taken seriously.
A thread about the layout can be found on this site by searching for Two Sister’s Farm in the narrow gauge section.

Regards Peter M

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Alan, a few films you may enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aSSYBgmNW0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF92TgDuvIw

Kind regards


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Those bring lots of memories for me.  

Two of the Simpson locomotives that were sold are parked in Centralia.
I was unable to get numbers as I was driving by and following someone else.


Alan Sewell
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Thanks Peter for the links to the Simpson videos.
Like Reg they bring back lots of memories.

I find the Simpson Reborn one especially poignant, as the railroad did not last too many years after that.
There is a very good DVD "Our Last Log Hauler" from Golden Rail which covers a happier time.

As a reminder attached is one of my photos taken in 1999 of Simpson's 1200 coming out of Franks transfer with a load of toothpicks.





Reg for your information I think the lokeys at Centralia are 1201 and 1202 per a video I saw on youtube.

For anyone else following this thread I hope to get to the scenery at Camp 16 in the next month or so.

Alan


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Alan:

I have not done a good job of tracking the locomotive numbers and their circumstances.  John Taubeneck probably knows the details.

The museum is plugging along.  They got possession of the turntable and were able to move it out to Mill 5.  They hope to build a pit for it.

I see their big hurdle as being money.   I think they started with the idea that the City of Shelton would throw in some money.   Given the city finances, the current commissioners, and the high risk nature of the venture, that is not going to happen.  

A few months back they had about $1,000 of track supplies stolen.  They had to hit Facebook with a plea for money in order to replace the stolen goods.  If $1,000 is a big hit, they are in a major up hill battle. 

If they are going to get the trackwork back into condition, establish some kind of terminal facilities, and acquire suitable rolling stock they need a couple of big roller donors.  Someone who can contribute millions.   

I think it is a noble venture.  But it is very high risk and I don't have much hope.

Reg

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Reg H wrote:
The combination of the Simpson line and the PS&P would make a great layout.  I contemplated it, but I don't really have the space.
You and me, both, Reg! If I wasn't modeling the ET&WNC during WW2, I might be modeling the PS&P with the Milwaukee Road never having bene abandoned and instead bought out by another carrier, running across it at Rochester like back in the day!


Reg H wrote:
The museum is plugging along.  They got possession of the turntable and were able to move it out to Mill 5.  They hope to build a pit for it.

I see their big hurdle as being money.   I think they started with the idea that the City of Shelton would throw in some money.   Given the city finances, the current commissioners, and the high risk nature of the venture, that is not going to happen. 

I wasn't familiar with how it was going right now. I've talked with Joel Hawthorne several times, who documented the final days at Simpson but it's been a little wile. He's one of the founding members of the museum (and one of the most soft-spoken train buffs I've ever met). They have one of the Simpson locomotives, too, as well as three passenger cars of various vintage, currently being stored right at the site of the old Milwaukee depot in Chehalis. I have no idea where they came from, but they're there right now.
I wish them all the luck in the world, as I sadly think they're going to need it.
I still kick myself that I never went out to chase this, nor the Waerhauser line out of Longview...


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Lee:

Did you know the NP depot in Hoquiam still stands?  It looks nice too.

I gotta get over there and get a photo.

Reg


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Reg H wrote:
Did you know the NP depot in Hoquiam still stands?  It looks nice too.

Yes, I was over there about a month ago (was looking for the steam locomotive being restored nearby but their building was closed):

http://www.graysharbortalk.com/2015/02/15/historic-polson-logging-locomotive-return-harbor/

The old depot houses the licensing office in town now.
If the Shelton operation ever gets to running trains, I wonder if anyone's thought to make a grab for that shay on display downtown to get it running?


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Lee:

You must be referring to the little prairie type that the Polson Museum is working on.  

It would be nice to see "Tollie" under steam and pulling folks around.  That would be a super major project.  Pete Replinger personally cut large holes in the bottom of the boiler. 

I have not talked to Joel Hawthorne.  I am kind of avoiding being too vocal about my interest.  I have way too much on my plate to get involved in this project and I could very easily get sucked in. 

I am also up to my neck in Shelton politics at the moment, which are very ugly.   Though I support what the museum is trying to do, I am, quite vocally, opposed to the City contributing any monetary support.  The museum is just one of the political footballs being kicked around town. So I am probably persona non grata among the active museum supporters. 

My friend, John Henderson, had an intense interest in the Simpson operation.  Indeed, some of my first railfan excursions with John, in the 1970's, involved trips to Shelton.  Had I known then that someday I would live in Shelton, I could have turned, while standing near the intersection of 12th and Railroad, and looked at the house in which I would eventually live.  But at that time I was living in the Ballard area of Seattle (as was John) and working at Seattle Pacific University.

I was executor for John's will.  Right now my memory is failing me.  John's photos and research (extensive) went to either Oso Publishing or John Taubeneck.  I will email John T. and see if all that went to him.  But I think he is in touch with Pete Replinger, so anything he (John T.) has would be known to the museum.  

Reg

Alan Sewell
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I can offer the attached, taken on Railroad Avenue, in I think 1989.





Alan

Hertford UK


Lee B
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Reg H wrote: It would be nice to see "Tollie" under steam and pulling folks around.  That would be a super major project.  Pete Replinger personally cut large holes in the bottom of the boiler. 

I have not talked to Joel Hawthorne.  I am kind of avoiding being too vocal about my interest.  I have way too much on my plate to get involved in this project and I could very easily get sucked in. 

I am also up to my neck in Shelton politics at the moment, which are very ugly.   Though I support what the museum is trying to do, I am, quite vocally, opposed to the City contributing any monetary support.  The museum is just one of the political footballs being kicked around town. So I am probably persona non grata among the active museum supporters.

I applaud you sticking to your convictions when it's something that'd be 'cool' to you. Most people, as you know, always want budget cuts for things they DON'T find interesting or get benefits from, but you dare not cut anything from what they want!
Joel's a good guy, the most laid-back train fan I've ever met. Some folks swear they've never actually heard him say anything.

It was surprising to go through their website and see how much progress they've had. I wasn't aware they had almost all the remaining rolling stock (other than the log cars) from the Simpson operation after the other locomotives were sold to WWR (or whatever it's called now) down at Chehalis. Also, it was a shock to know they have about 10 miles of useable track. I just hope they're able to get those passenger cars (a baggage car, and observation car and some manner of heavily-modified diner car) from Chehalis onto the tracks at Shelton. I know the roundhouse in Shelton is coming down, so I guess a large shed/depot will be next on the agenda.


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Alan, a few more  Simpson Timber films to enjoy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMr9nYOfLEA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZblPOztFtSI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWhIpR3bswk&t=1043s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IRJ06xudko&t=546s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dke-NTNkDGo&t=196s


Kind regards Peter M


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Thanks Peter.

There are quiet a few recent ( i.e from 2010) videos of Simpson on YouTube, but not much before then which is a pity.
Guess those who took them don't want to post on YouTube.
Can't blame them as I have some video from 1989 on DVD ( RegH has a copy) but decided not to go on YouTube.
I know there were some films made in the 1950's/60's but have not seen these anywhere.

Anyway it is good, if a little sad, to see what was at Shelton just a few years ago.





For interest, attached is a photo I took in August 1989 of the woods train heading out to the dump in Oakland Bay.

Best wishes
Alan


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Hi Alan  :wave:


Hope it's going well in the Herts. of logging country, North of London.  ;)

I liked your photos ^^ above ...

... & was looking through my logging photos, when I found this one I thought you might be interested in.





Camp cars under construction ... No idea where or when.  L:



:)



Si.


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Hi Si.

Thanks for the e-mail.

Not much happening with modelling.
But I have had a custom up-grade to a Walthers SW1200 with new paint job and sound which I am very happy with.

However both my shortline FM 10-44 have strangely failed.
So am having to get them looked at and the shortline is having to “hire” a SW9 from the lumber company.
Think this also happened in reality on the Weyerhaeuser Columbia and Cowlitz in the late 1960’s.

I plan to get some scenery done in the next few weeks 
 
The photo is interesting as you do not often see camp cars being constructed.
I cannot be sure where it is but I think it might be Rayonier.
The completed car looks like some in photos I have seen of the operation,
and also the cars I saw at the Camp Six Museum in Tacoma and now moved Mineral.
Also the shop building looks like some at Railroad Camp photos.
Would think the the photo dates from the 1920's

Look forward to hearing from you

Best wishes
Alan


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That last photo reminds me of the very nice laser-cut kit that Daniel Caso produced under his FACLAV banner,
which is regrettably no longer and which I am fortunate to have an example of sitting outside Updah's loco workshop.











I could even begin to think bits of Updah are prototypical Si! :bg:


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Alan:

Funny you should mention the Columbia and Cowlitz.
The very first railfan trip I took with John Henderson, which was the day I met him,
was a trip to that railroad which culminated in a cab ride in a leased Milwaukee SW (1200, I think).  

That was quite a trip.
The engineer didn't seem to take much care with the locomotive.
He would yank the throttle to notch 8, the locomotive would bellow and holler until the circuit breaker tripped.
At which point the engineer would slam the throttle closed, wait for the circuit breaker to reset, then yank it back to full throttle. 

Anyway, that trip was my introduction to John Henderson, the Big Muddy, and a life long (well, his anyway) friendship.  

Reg


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Hi Reg

Good to hear from you.

Although I never saw the Columbia & Cowlitz (CLC) operating on my trips with John Henderson,
I got a trip around the Longview mill with the CLC superintendent back in 1989,
and I did railfan the woods line a couple of times with John.
Yes riding the "big muddy" ( John's van to those not in the know ) was quite an experience.
The CLC is another inspiration for my model railroad

I did join the Peninsular Railway Museum - seems like they have fired up some equipment etc.
Any news from your perspective on them.

Best wishes
Alan


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Hi again Reg

Was wondering if you had any photos from that day with John H.

I have seen photos of mixed Weyerhaeuser/CLC consists on the Columbia and Cowlitz but no leased power.
Always thought WTC would have enough motors to help out their short line.
There is a JohnH photo in the Vail/McDonald book showing a leased MILW unit on the Chehalis Western,
so perhaps the CLC lease was part of a package.
Anyway interesting story and food for thought on my model.

Progress on the Henderson Bay branch looks good.

Best wishes
Alan  


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Alan:

Now that I think about it...

We chased the Columbia & Cowlitz that day, but rode the Chehalis Western.  We also visited a scrap yard stocked with Milwaukee Little Joe's.  It was a busy day.

I will see if I can scare up some prints.  My photos are in a bit of disarray.   I've lots of great negatives that have never been printed.  Someday I would like a good photo scanner and work on those.  

Lots of good "Big Muddy" stories.  The best trip was a two-week trip to Alaska with John and "The Friar".  


Reg

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Hi Reg
 
That would make sense and then the photo in the Vail book must be on your trip.

Reminds me that in the "Logging to the Saltchuck" book there is a photo of Simpson's ballast spreader by John.
I was standing beside him when he took that- probably a bit open-mouthed at the sight of that contraption at work.

Hope you can get some of your photos sorted.

Best wishes
Alan


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A photo of the plow on that trip in 1989.





Think John was off in the brush to my left looking for a good shot.

Alan


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Alan:

I think I still have the slide show I put together for Johns memorial.  But I don't have a means of digitizing that stuff yet.

I suppose I should work on that.

Reg

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Hi Alan  :wave:



As well as some great modelling pix. ...













... & some great & unique historical pix. ... plus stories & tales from the tall timber as well ...









... including the mysterious enigmatic  " Big Muddy "  whatever on Earth that is/was ?  L:

It's lookin' good.  :thumb:

I wonder if the 'Andrews Company Shops' are riveting together an HO version ??  ???



;)



I took the liberty of doing a spot of 'digital welding' myself ...

... and 'welded on' your original 'Joining Freerails' Forum Thread, to this one ...

... since it contained mucho info & pix. from the tall timber in it's own right.



It all comes in 'date order', so it follows on quite nicely & no one will 'see the join' ...

... just like a big pine, superglued back together again !  :shocked:



I think you could be right, about moving your Thread from the HO Forum, to the Logging Forum ...

... as it looks like you have/will be Posting quite a bit of 'historical' material, as well as 'modelling'.

It may well mean that 'non-scale-specific' folk, interested in your prototypes, might stumble across it more easily and/or often.  :)



I remember what I thought was a really  C :cool: :cool: L  piece in the N.G.& S.L.G. back in the late '80s pre Internet days ...

... about mooodern Simpson & others, Diesel Forest Railroading in the Pacific Northwest.

I was tempted myself, had it not been for my then interest in 1:24n3  "rolling rust bucket narrow gauge logging".  ;)



Oh well ...

... never say die !  :P

My 'Tri-ang' road-switchers & lovely swingin' '60s log-cars, complete with the five 1/2" x 6" chunks of 'realistic' doweling, need a home !


You never know ? ... That '60s vintage dowelling, could well have come from the woods outside of Shelton !  :old dude:

:java:  Now there's a thought !!



:moose: :moose: :moose: :moose: :moose:



Si.


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Si:

I suppose I should poke my nose into the logging thread, as well.

My sources for Simpson are kind of shaky.   Shelton is a small town.  The politics of which have gotten just as ugly as they are on the national stage.  It is no longer sufficient to disagree with those in the opposition, you have to hate them.

I am not generally involved in politics, but have some skin in the game.  I tend to fire up the smoking word processor and generate my fair share of letters to the editor.  

Many of the movers and shakers in the museum are also involved in local politics.

Unfortunately, my political views are generally in opposition to the political views of most of the folks involved in the effort to establish the logging museum.  

At Forest Festival on Saturday, the museum had a booth.  Naturally, I dropped by to chat.  It was made quite clear that those folks want nothing to do with me.  

Reg



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I think politics have to be kept where they belong: in the trash can!
Jose.

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pipopak wrote: I think politics have to be kept where they belong: in the trash can!
Jose.


Yep!   

Reg

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Si

Thanks for the nice comments and for making this thread more complete.

I am open to changing this from HO Forum to logging if you think this would work better.
Don't know how to do it however.

Best regards from  Hertford  - home of the world first paper mill apparently.

Alan


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" I am open to changing this from HO Forum to logging if you think this would work better "


Hi Alan  :wave:



OK then ! ... DONE !!

You are now an 'official' Freerails mooodern lumberjack !  ;)



A great many new Members join Freerails, after spotting Threads which match their own interests.

I just figured that all those other mooodern logging nutz out there ...

... are more likely to discover your Thread here in 'Logging' rather than in 'HO'.



You never know ...
... there could be a FLOOD of obsessive mooodern loggers sign-up, to wax everything 'Diesel & Timber' !  :old dude:

Not as obsessive as you of course Alan ... At least according to your Mrs. !  ;)



:moose:



Si.


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Hi.

I am curious about the yellow car behind the yellow SW unit.

Can you post a pic of it from the top?

Thanks.

Jose.


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Hi

The yellow car is based on a Simpson prototype used up to the early 1980's at least.
It was one of several steam loco tenders, rebuilt I think in the Shelton shops,
as track sprinkler and fire car, to reduce fire hazard from brake shoes sparks etc.
It also served as protection between the lokey and the train in case of a shifted load going through the cab!!
The top is really flat but held a box of firefighting tools, hose reel and various cables etc.

Rather that have a another photo of my model, attached are some of the real thing from my collection.

Alan

This is the prototype by Shelton shops.





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The fire car on the Simpson railroad was matched with a caboose and lokey.
This is the set up.





Alan Sewell
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And here is a John Henderson photo from the cab looking across the top of one of these cars.
Shows the equipment/junk carried.





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Reg et al

Re: Peninsula rail museum in Shelton.
 

Seems really unfortunate that we are in this "if you are not with me, then you are completely against me" version of politics.
There should always be some form of understanding about why anyone takes a view point especially as there is usually more ways of looking at a subject.

Having had some experience of local pressure groups and having been part of the museum "industry",
I know both how passionate, and how blinkered, some can become and therefore not find the time to have a reasoned discussion.

Obviously the rail museum would like support in Shelton.
However I can see that stretched city budgets will make funding this pretty far down the priorities,
especially if the tourist demand is as yet unproved and Shelton/Mason County probably need a firm business plan they could buy into.

With my museum management hat on,
I know that many enthusiast groups forget about the "business" end, in their desire to preserve their favorite bit of the past. 
However I do wish them well in preserving whatever they can of the Simpson rail operations.

Alan 
 

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Recycling at it's finest!.
Thanks. Jose.

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Hi Jose

I am not a great believer in the commonly held belief that loggers built most equipment in their own shops.
However there are some good examples of re-purposing equipment to better suit the operations needs.
Simpson's water car is a one example, as is the ballast plow which was built on a PC&F moving car.

I try not to have too many examples of home built stock.
But I have built the water cars and a couple of tank car conversions.
 
Regards
Alan


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There has been some discussion about John Henderson,
a long time and very detailed rail fan, particularly of logging/mining/industrial railroads.

He has credits in many places and was one of the primary driving forces behind the magazine Tall Timber Short Lines.

Unfortunately, the last issue of the magazine carried John's obituary.
I don't think that was a coincidence.  

Some questions were raised, by Si, particularly about the fabled "Big Muddy".

Here a a few photos that may shed some light on the subject.











The last image is of John overlooking the Simpson mill in Shelton, Washington.
It was taken very shortly before he passed.

Reg


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Found a couple of photos on 'Google Images' of the Simpson Timber Co. tender conversions.






:moose:



Si.


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:moose:



Si.


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Great photo ^^ Alan !  :)






:moose:



Si.


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Hi Si.

Thanks for the photos.

The two shots of the water cars I must think be at Shelton probably as the Peninsula Railway museum tried to get its act together.

The photo of the train with Alco #600 I would guess is taken at the Roots of Motive Power Museum in California,
after Chris Baldo acquired some items of Simpson's equipment.
Alco #600 was used by Simpson as the mill switcher and then was spare lokey for several years.
I saw it as that in 1999.
Attached is a photo from my collection of it working at Shelton.

The water car is in a earlier Simpson livery.
Again from my collection is a photo of this coupled to its pair SW900 #900, one of the few SW900 fitted with dynamic brakes.

Simpson also had another Alco #20 which they got when they brought out Shafer in the early 1950's.
I added a photo of this at Shelton with the Rayonier pulp mill in the background.

Almost out of shot in the photo you posted is one of the 1920's PC&F ballast cars as restored.
These were long lived and the photo I took in 1999 shows it at work spreading ballast  near Shelton.

Thanks again for posting the material.

Alan





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SW900 plus water car in yellow.





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Alco #20 working at Shelton.





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Photo I took in 1999 of 70 year old ballast cars at work.
 
Alan





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Alan,

Those look like interesting ballast cars.

Any more photos of them?


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Hi Michael

Yes they were interesting cars and still being used for track work in 1999 and probably much later.
They were originally PC&F cars built in the 1920's.
I think PC&F advertised them in the logging magazines of the time.
I seem to remember John Henderson thought the Shelton shops may have rebuilt some,
and certainly the braking system looks more modern than 1925.

I have some more photos and a few are attached.
#1 was working with the  ballast plow in 1989.

Regards
Alan





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Ballast car 6 was in the training dumping ballast in 1999 on the outskirts of Shelton.





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And #7 was with one of Simpsons's loco cranes by the shops in 1989.

Hope you find these interesting.

Alan





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Thanks for the info.

The cars look like they might be 36' or 40'.  Almost like a flatcar frame with a hopper on top.

Did find a little more info:

https://rootsofmotivepower.com/rail-car/rail-ballast-car-simpson-timber-company-6/


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Hi Micheal

I did not measure these cars but I think they are probably 36'.

I know there have been a few articles on them.
One I could find quickly today was in "TimberTimes" issue 18 of January 1998.
This has more photos of a Weyerhaeuser example found near Klamath Falls.
The drawing in TimberTimes shows similar cars to be 36 feet.

I also just looked up my copy of the "Logging Modelers Handbook",
and there is a Pacific Lumber Co version with an overall length of just under 36 foot.

Hope that is useful.

Alan


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Hi again.

I looked through a few more sources on the PC&F ballast cars,
and now I think they were 34 feet over the frames and maybe 36 feet over the couplings.

I also found a few more photos.

This is from the Ivan Ergish collection that John Henderson held and is one of a number he copied for me after our trip in 1999.
This is at Headquarters Idaho on the Clearwater operations of Potlatch.
Note the hopper sides have been replaced with wood planks.

Alan





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This is another PFI Clearwater car looking similar to the Simpson examples.

Alan




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This is a John Henderson photo from Weyerhaeuser Longview operations.
It seems to be a steel version of the earlier PC&F car.
Whether by them or a rebuild in the Longview shops which were/are capable of such work, I don't know.
However John thought they were supplied by PC&F ( PACCAR)

Alan





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Thanks for the photos.

Those footboards along the sides add an interesting touch.


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Hi Michael.

Don't know for sure what the footboards are for, but in some other photos there appears to be a handrail along the top of the car.
I think therefore they are to allow a crewman to go from car to car,
to open and close the hopper doors, without getting on and off the car while they were moving and dumping ballast.

When I was at Shelton a crew member was doing this and it seemed pretty dangerous.
The ground at Shelton was fairly level so I can see in a typical woods situation it being even more scary.
 
While as I have suggested Simpson used a ballast plow, Potlatch seemed to use just a baulk of timber attached to one of the cars.
You can see this in the attached photo.

Alan





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:moose:



Si.


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When you descend into Shelton (the road hugs the side of a hill, sharply downhill to town, you pass a sectioned log about that size, right where his photo was made. I wonder if it's the exact one in that photo? It might be a replacement after all these years, sitting outside in that climate?

Ironically, I missed having my WW2 Jeep in the annual Shelton logger's festival parade (going past that sign along the way) this year because I'd just gotten back from the UK the day before!

Last edited on Thu Jun 21st, 2018 11:11 pm by Lee B


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