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Questions On Installing My 'DelTang' R.C. Gear ?
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 Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2018 06:17 am
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Rick Dow
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Hi Juergen,

Thanks for your comments. I just wanted to touch base with you for further clarification in the following paragraph I have copied, if I may.  see below:

All DelTang Rx's have a low voltage cut off (LCV), when battery voltage decreases under a certain level (standard setting 3v per cell in case of a Lipo or LiFePo etc), to protect against over discharge (= Lipo exitus). But, except Rx62, in all DT Rx's the LCV feature is "only" able to cut off connection to the electrical loads, not to the board itself. So there is still the low quiescent current, that, slowly but continuously, can over discharge your Lipo if you have forgotten to switch the loco off. (Something that happens to me in the beginning, more than once)


    Jeurgen, does the above paragraph infer that when the Rx62 turns off due to low voltage, it also features a cut off of any potential low quiescent current?  In other words, when the Rx62 shuts down it is totally shut down. 

    Juergen, you also mentioned that:

 I case of using the protection board, it should care for over discharge protection as well. But as already said, with the balancing protection board you only need a 2pole socket at your loco for charging.

     Can you also re-visit the above paragraph and explain it to me once again, please?

Appreciate all the advice.

Cheers

Rick

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 Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2018 06:40 am
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Rick Dow
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Hi Bob,

Cornhusker fan?

I have copied the following from your post:

 If you use a battery protection circuit you do not need to have a balance chord.  Balancing is part of the circuit.  That is why the battery connection to the board is wiring the two cells with the BM connection.  It also eliminates the requirement to wire the receiver for voltage monitoring.  The protection circuits provide over charge/over discharge/and short circuit protection.

Is the BPC an added circuit board that needs to be purchased and then wired into the scheme between the battery and the receiver?  

It would seem from how I might interpret your description of the Battery Protection Circuit that it will balance my 2 or 3 cell Lipos when I'm charging them in the tender and the charge current itself is only running through the two power wires (no balance chord used at all)

Is that correct?

Thanks,   Rick


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 Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2018 12:55 pm
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Toeffelholm
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Rick Dow wrote: Hi Juergen,

Thanks for your comments. I just wanted to touch base with you for further clarification in the following paragraph I have copied, if I may.  see below:

All DelTang Rx's have a low voltage cut off (LCV), when battery voltage decreases under a certain level (standard setting 3v per cell in case of a Lipo or LiFePo etc), to protect against over discharge (= Lipo exitus). But, except Rx62, in all DT Rx's the LCV feature is "only" able to cut off connection to the electrical loads, not to the board itself. So there is still the low quiescent current, that, slowly but continuously, can over discharge your Lipo if you have forgotten to switch the loco off. (Something that happens to me in the beginning, more than once)


    Jeurgen, does the above paragraph infer that when the Rx62 turns off due to low voltage, it also features a cut off of any potential low quiescent current?  In other words, when the Rx62 shuts down it is totally shut down. 


Yes, is does. That's the reason I wrote:

"Rx62 ist able to cut off the board completely from the support voltage."

Just above this paragraph.


Rick Dow wrote:Juergen, you also mentioned that:

 I case of using the protection board, it should care for over discharge protection as well. But as already said, with the balancing protection board you only need a 2pole socket at your loco for charging.

     Can you also re-visit the above paragraph and explain it to me once again, please?

Appreciate all the advice.

Cheers

Rick


Yes, sure. Let's take Bob's words:
Bob R wrote:  If you use a battery protection circuit you do not need to have a balance chord.  Balancing is part of the circuit.  That is why the battery connection to the board is wiring the two cells with the BM connection.  It also eliminates the requirement to wire the receiver for voltage monitoring.  The protection circuits provide over charge/over discharge/and short circuit protection. 

Juergen



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modelling in 1:22.5 on 32mm and 16.5mm track
Actual project: 7/8" scale on 45 mm track
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 Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2018 05:34 pm
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Bob R
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Rick,
Yeah - Cornhusker fan.  The BPC is a separate board.  I ordered mine on Ebay - 10 for $12.99 with free shipping.  There are a lot of different boards out there.  I looked for mine based on size and amperage. The ones I am using are 4 amp rated which is plenty adequate.  
Until last year I was running everything with a single cell and a Pololu 9 volt step up regulator.  The Pololu requires 3 volts to operate, therefore I saw no need for a battery cutoff and never wired my receiver to monitor battery voltage.  When the battery voltage dropped to 2.9 - 3.0 volts the engines just stopped.  Worked great.  Using the Pololu really cut engine run times.  Stepping from 3.7 volts to 9 volts almost cut battery life in half.  I still got about 1 1/2 hours on my small Bachmann powered engines.  
Then I decided I needed 3 hours run time so I changed everything to 2 cell.  I added the BPC boards to provide the cutoff, balancing and other protections.  The results have been better than expected.  On most engines I have found the speed at 7.4 volts more than adequate so have also removed the Pololu boards.
The components I generally use and shown in the Bachmann F7 picture I posted are shown in the attached picture.  250 mah cells, 4 Amp BPC, DelTang RX61 and Reed switch.
One last note.  The battery pictured has a single cell BPC attached.  I remove it when wiring up my two cell batteries.

Attachment: 20180204_071117.jpg (Downloaded 61 times)

Last edited on Sun Feb 4th, 2018 05:36 pm by Bob R



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 Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2018 06:05 pm
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davecttr
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Bob

Were you using a single 250mAh battery with your small Bachmann locos? A 250mAh lipo should give you about 15mins output at 1 amp so your locos were drawing about 160mA. another way of doubling the run time would have been to use two 250mAh cells connected in parallel. The Pololu and Rx also draw power when idle and I allow 25mA per hour.

My standard operating session lasts up to 3 hours with each loco moving for up to 30 minutes and idling for 2.5 hours. For example the battery for a large express passenger loco drawing 400mA would need 200mA for moving and 65mA for idling. This is easy to achieve with a couple of 160mAh cells. Even an exhibition day is doable, 1 hour run time and 7 hours idling needing 575mAh.



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 Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2018 06:43 pm
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Bob R
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Dave,
Before switching to 2 cell my engines had single 300mah cells.  Your suggestion is certainly another way to achieve the run time.   I opened my layout for operating sessions this past year.  Previously I was just operating it for my own pleasure.  Operating sessions are 3 hours and with the change to 2 cells I have never had an engine run out of battery.  My engines are rather small and the loads they pull very light.  I have run engines on a loop continuously for an hour and then recharged the battery to see how many mah it took.  With two cell an hour usually takes less than 100 mah.  Not scientific as a continuous run does not reflect normal use with many starts and stops.  As you point out, in any operating session there are fairly long periods when the engine is at idle. 



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 Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2018 05:22 am
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Rick Dow
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Just bought six of these:   Look okay to you guys??


Protection Circuit Module PCM to 2S 7.4V 7.2V LiIon LiPo Battery C/D:6A SM157 US

Rick

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 Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2018 05:33 am
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Bob R
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More than adequate at 6 amp rating.  A little larger than those I am using.  Cost higher also. I ordered mine from China at $12.99 for 10 with free shipping.  Of course that meant waiting a month for delivery.



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 Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2018 08:01 am
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Rick Dow
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Hi Bob

They were the smallest dimensions I could find.  Maybe didn't look far enough down the line. I was definitely trying for small footprint.  


I yanked two older DC locomotives apart over the week-end and pulled the wheel scrapers off to get rid of whatever drag they might add to the battery. Then I cut off the old motor wires off, garbaged them and soldered in brand new ones.

 Drilled a hole in the back of the locomotive and fed the new wires out toward the tender with about seven inches to spare. I'll trim them when necessary as I set up the equipment inside the tender. 

I don't want to shoehorn everything into the tender. 

After cutting out all the small plastic tabs etc from the inside the tender, I have installed a new flat floor in there and made a compartment for the battery.  The charging port will exit from this lower section as well.  I will probably also sticky tape the BPC to the top of the battery (like you have, Bob) and slide them both in there. 


Then above that on it's own floor surface, I will install the Receiver (in the upper compartment) with the wires to the motor exiting toward the front of the tender.

Snowing to beat the band here in Ontario. I suppose it is February, so what did I expect. Great Super Bowl game tonight.

Thanks everyone for so much help.

Rick

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 Posted: Tue Feb 6th, 2018 12:11 pm
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Toeffelholm
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Rick Dow wrote: Just bought six of these:   Look okay to you guys??


Protection Circuit Module PCM to 2S 7.4V 7.2V LiIon LiPo Battery C/D:6A SM157 US

Rick


No sure if this board has  a balancing feature ?

Juergen 

Last edited on Tue Feb 6th, 2018 12:14 pm by Toeffelholm



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modelling in 1:22.5 on 32mm and 16.5mm track
Actual project: 7/8" scale on 45 mm track
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