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Questions On Installing My 'DelTang' R.C. Gear ?
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 Posted: Tue Feb 6th, 2018 08:23 am
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Rick Dow
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hmmmn     not sure either.  Thanks for pointing this out.  Learning curve adventures I suppose.

You're no doubt correct and probably pretty sure it doesn't have this feature aren't you, Juergen. :)  

 I have no doubt got to go back and re-visit Ebay.  

I suppose the correct PCM will say "balancing feature" or "Balancing Capability" or something similar? Need to know the wording to look for. 

Rick

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 Posted: Tue Feb 6th, 2018 01:06 pm
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Bob R
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Not positive but looking at the specifications on the board I see:Balance voltage for single cell N/A  but......Overcharge Detection Voltage is 4.35 which indicates a cutoff for individual cells.
If it cuts a cell off at that point will the other still be charging to reach a balance.
The same type specs are on those I use and I have not had any balance problems.

Last edited on Tue Feb 6th, 2018 01:08 pm by Bob R



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 Posted: Wed Feb 7th, 2018 02:55 am
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Rick Dow
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Today I received the one cell battery charger I had placed on order. 

It's an E-flite 1S USB LiPo Charger,  500mA:180XHD

My smart charger charges 2S to 6S batteries hence the need for a 1 cell charger

Regarding Lipo batteries, I had previously purchased a one cell, several two cells and a couple of 3 cells back a few months ago when I was just getting started with BPRC train operation.

But, my plan is to go with 2S LiPo's

I assume there is no way to check the charge level of 1 cell LiPo batteries.

I also assume that even with my new Bachmann 2-6-0's and 4-4-0's I would need to step up the voltage output of a 1S Lipo in order to run properly.

Rick

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 Posted: Wed Feb 7th, 2018 02:58 am
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Rick Dow
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Juergen,   If applicable, can you send me the proper descriptive terms I might possibly be looking for in the Ebay description, when buying a BPC that has a balancing feature?
Thks

Rick

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 Posted: Wed Feb 7th, 2018 09:12 am
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davecttr
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Rick Dow wrote: Today I received the one cell battery charger I had placed on order. 

It's an E-flite 1S USB LiPo Charger,  500mA:180XHD

My smart charger charges 2S to 6S batteries hence the need for a 1 cell charger

Regarding Lipo batteries, I had previously purchased a one cell, several two cells and a couple of 3 cells back a few months ago when I was just getting started with BPRC train operation.

But, my plan is to go with 2S LiPo's

I assume there is no way to check the charge level of 1 cell LiPo batteries.

I also assume that even with my new Bachmann 2-6-0's and 4-4-0's I would need to step up the voltage output of a 1S Lipo in order to run properly.

Rick
I have 2 of the 'UM' version of those USB chargers and want 2 more but my supplier is temporarily out of stock.

When testing the voltage do you want to do this when in use or after charging? I use a multi meter for the latter and you can program a Rx to flash the battery voltage by using a button on the Tx, however.......

My small Bachmann locos need more than a nominal 3.7V so I step up with a regulator. A Pololu 9V works for me and other voltages are available. Note that if you use a booster the flashing LED voltage check won't work because it reads the voltage after it leaves the booster. My solution to this was to have 2 contact points in the wiring so I could use my multi meter.



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 Posted: Wed Feb 7th, 2018 01:32 pm
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Bob R
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Rick,
Look on internet for "Lipo Battery Tester"  for $5 you can buy a tester that will check 1 cell or more.  Used with a balance charge connection they will sequentially test and show each cells status.  Most hobby shops that sell RC planes and cars have them as well.
I usually buy loose cells and make up my own batteries.  In that way I can tailor to my specific size and capacity needs.  If you are not familiar with Lipo Li-ion numbering - the battery numbers relate to the size in millimeters.  IE. Flat cells have 6 digit number like 402035.  The first two are thickness- in this example 4mm  (sometimes listed as 40, sometimes 04).  The second is width - 20mm and the third is length -35mm.  Round cells the first two are diameter and next two length and last zero usually.  a 14430 is 14mm diameter and 43mm long.  Measure a models space and look on internet for a size.  If your specific measurement does not match an available size all the others will pop up anyway and help you to locate the best fit.  Cells certainly come in various sizes for any capacity.  Some thin and long, some thick and short etc.
Those commercial batteries do not show the size on wrapper, but do have it printed on the cell inside.

Last edited on Wed Feb 7th, 2018 01:37 pm by Bob R



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 Posted: Thu Feb 8th, 2018 05:11 pm
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Rick Dow
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Hi Bob,
You wrote:  If you are not familiar with Lipo Li-ion numbering - the battery numbers relate to the size in millimeters.  IE. Flat cells have 6 digit number like 402035.  The first two are thickness- in this example 4mm  (sometimes listed as 40, sometimes 04).  The second is width - 20mm and the third is length -35mm.  Round cells the first two are diameter and next two length and last zero usually.  a 14430 is 14mm diameter and 43mm long.


Bob, I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. This helps a lot. 


 I'm still wondering if there is a battery Protection Circuit Module available on ebay that anyone knows about that will include a feature providing monitoring the balancing, when charging a multi-cel LiPo. 

 I am asking this question because I am trying to avoid the need to hook up the balancing chord to the charger.
Rick

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 Posted: Sun Feb 11th, 2018 05:21 pm
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Toeffelholm
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Rick Dow wrote: Juergen,   If applicable, can you send me the proper descriptive terms I might possibly be looking for in the Ebay description, when buying a BPC that has a balancing feature?
Thks

Rick


Bob R wrote: Not positive but looking at the specifications on the board I see:Balance voltage for single cell N/A  but......Overcharge Detection Voltage is 4.35 which indicates a cutoff for individual cells.
If it cuts a cell off at that point will the other still be charging to reach a balance.
The same type specs are on those I use and I have not had any balance problems.


Rick,

Bob is right in his comment, that you will compulsorily achieve a "balanced" voltage status of the pack's cells, when the pack is fully loaded.

The balance charging of your charger works probably different (if it works like mine). It watches and manages the cell voltages during the loading process, so that you will achieve a balanced lipo pack also at a load of e.g. 80%. 

May be that protection boards that are described to have a balancing feature, do exactly this as well. E.g. this one

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2S-8A-7-4V-w-Balance-18650-Li-ion-Lithium-Battery-BMS-Charger-Protection-Board/322784910420?hash=item4b277adc54:g:3VEAAOSwG7lZymMt

Problem is, that the description of these boards is always very poor.



But, those thoughts lead us to the question, if this way of "real balancing" is really necessary. 

What can happen with a not correct balanced lipo pack? In my own view it's the following.

 First, if you would use a protection device that watches for the limit sum voltage of the pack alone - so maybe 6V for a 2cell or 9V for a 3cell lipo - it could happen that one cell sinks under 3V with a sum voltage of still 6V. But with a limit value for a single cell, that is said to be about 2,7V, the unbalance has to be higher than 0,6V. 

Second, and more significant, if charged with the sum voltage of a pack, with a charger without balancing, in an unbalanced lipo pack a cell could be charged over the limit value. 

But, if a protection circuit is used and the single cell voltages are protected at the lowest and highest level, also with an unbalanced pack the single cells are protected. ( Provided the protection board is properly working. )

Juergen



Last edited on Sun Feb 11th, 2018 07:49 pm by Toeffelholm



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 Posted: Sun Feb 11th, 2018 10:54 pm
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Rick Dow
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Juergen, 
    Okay, that's a good explanation. Well written and I believe that I was able to follow it well. Thank you. It's also good news.
Rick

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 Posted: Mon Feb 12th, 2018 03:39 am
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Rick Dow
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First Question:   As I see things shaping up, my next question is about making custom cables. 

I assume I need to learn how to make up when necessary, my own custom cables using wires of desired lengths with the appropriate male and female connectors attached ?

First of all, is it normal for us to make up our own cables? Is it difficult to do and by this I mean making up cables by attaching wires to those small pin connectors?  Plus what special equipment is needed? Are they soldered?


I'm trying to avoid jamming all the wires, connections, batteries and receivers into the tender in a haphazard manner. 

So just for starters, my wiring plan at the moment begins with me connecting my 2 cell LiPo battery power wires to a second, similar although much shorter three wire cable only half an inch long with one female end and one male end.    This will allow me to remove the battery if so desired  -  by simply disconnecting it at the first plug and thus leaving the remainder of the tender's wiring harness intact.      The half inch long cable is the charging cable will have one end poked flush through the tender wall and will be glued in place.

The local RC hobby shop (specializes in planes and boats) doesn't carry these small sized cables that I need.

 So I guess, to sum it up, should I learn how to manufacture my own or is there an internet location that anyone knows about where I can simply place an order for certain sized cables?

Second - but related Question:   I am wondering if anyone can explain how to "Tee-Off" a wire (meaning how one wire becomes two wires). Is there a special connector used to do this type of split?)  For instance, the black Ground wire from my 2 cell LiPo battery needs to Tee - Off in two directions, with the first wire connecting straight to my DelTang receiver while the second wire will be part of the one inch long charging cable.

Hope you guys don't tire of answering all these questions. 

At this point in the game, every new bit of information I receive is very welcome and also seems to open up a new door for me. Then when I go through that door there are two more new doors to open  :)

Over this past week-end, I spent some quality time with dark washes on an almost finished rock slope, finished a styrofoam stone wall and am also proud to say, I finally did some Deadrail wiring. 

The wiring part amounted to me successfully soldering the two motor leads from a couple of older DC switching locomotives to two of my original Del Tang Rx61 Receivers. (I have replacement Del Tang Rx62 receivers with their integral magnetic reed switches on order to replace my original Rx61's)

Before I can go further and wire the LiPo battery wires to the Rx61 receiver itself, I will need the appropriate sized wires with connectors. A work in progress.  

Thks

rick



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