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Good Locos For Turn Of The Century ?
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 Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2018 12:25 am
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Helmut F
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All,
I am looking for some good, preferably low power or easily replaced motors to get there, turn of the century steam locos.  I want low power as I will convert them to BPRC and add DCC and sound.

I can add details, so I am not concerned there.  I would like them to be easily modified to add the components I need.

For locos I am looking at 2-6-0's, 4-4-0's, maybe 2-8-0's and 4-6-0's.  If I can find Heisler, Dunkirk, or Climax examples those would be great as well, but I am less confident that those will have the available internal space.  I love larger stuff as well (especially Mike's) but that does not really fit my timeline (could change) nor space available as this is a test layout to see how/what i like doing - I anticipate progress in small modules (2x4 or so).

Am I better starting off with new stuff, or is older stock a good candidate?  I don't necessary care who the manufacturer is, nor do I need new.  Matter of fact, the cheaper the better (especially for the first one I convert).

I think I want to stick with standard gauge, but might consider narrow if those locos have enough internal space.  My RR will be freelanced, not any particular prototype.

Thanks!

Last edited on Mon Apr 23rd, 2018 02:36 am by Helmut F



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 Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2018 01:45 pm
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Kitbash0n30
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The description low power motors, what is the precise definition of that?
If low power means low torque you have guaranteed failure before you even begin.
According to NMRA car weight standards for HO a 40ft box car should weigh 4 ounces and there are 16 ounces in a pound and 4x4 is 16; so an 8 car train weighs 2 pounds.
Something important to keep in mind is that motor in steam of TOC era normally has to fit in a more-or-less cylindrical space of 14mm by 30mm if that much on your lucky day.

From IHC 2-6-0 mentioned below:


On older locomotives of the one upon a time in recent memory readily available flavor;
Way back in the 1980s and 1990s I liked the cast metal and plastic 'screwdriver kits' from Model Die Casting Roundhouse. They were solid though very basic models and could be made to run well via replacing open frame motor with can motor and flywheel. Great canvas for detailing. With choice of either PRR or Harriman shape boilers suitable for 1900 to 1910s there were 2-8-0, 2-6-2, 4-4-2, and I'm not sure about 4-6-0. Kit designs originated in 1960s I think. Later there were 1880s style 2-8-0, 2-6-0 which were later offered RTR and again I'm not sure about a 4-6-0.
There was also an 0-6-0 kit which could ambiguously fit between 1890s and 1920s.
In early 2000s the owner of MDC retired and sold operation to Horizon Hobby who discontinued the kits but at some point offered RTR versions.
There was also a Shay kit which came out in 1980s I think. Took some working with it but they could be made to run well.

Rivarossi/AHM/IHC had the three Virginia & Truckee 4-4-0s which served from 1880s to 1940s with modifications along the way. Bodies were closer to 4mm, OO scale, than 1/87, HO, scale but the IHC ones I have are reliable and good runners. Tender is full of motor which has shaft drive to locomotive so where to put electronics is a question.
There was also a "Casey Jones" Illinois Central 4-6-0 with clerestory roof cab. Which at some point was offered in kit form in O scale.
There were, are, by the above also some 1900s suitable 4-4-0 and 2-6-0 locomotives in both normal and camelback configuration. Again the ones I have are sturdy, reliable, and good runners.

Last edited on Mon Apr 23rd, 2018 02:28 pm by Kitbash0n30



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 Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2018 01:53 pm
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Kitbash0n30
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As for space for electronics with 1880s locomotives expect tenders to be about this big, as would be the 1880s old timer MDC/Roundhouse 2-8-0 and 2-6-0 kits mentioned above.
And with that kit the lower 1/4 to 3/8 inch of tender was filled with weight cast as part of frame.


Tender for MDC/Roundhouse PRR 1900s 4-4-2, 2-6-2, 2-8-0, 4-6-0, mentioned above are this big, or this small, depending. The Harriman boiler engines had a Vanderbilt tender of similar length.

Last edited on Mon Apr 23rd, 2018 02:07 pm by Kitbash0n30



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 Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2018 03:02 pm
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Si.
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A pretty nice looking, probably affordable, low-current motored, Bachmann 4-4-0, can't argue with that. :thumb:





A pretty nice looking, probably affordable, low-current motored, Bachmann 4-6-0, can't argue with that either. :thumb:






:pop:  Food for thought !



Si.




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 Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2018 05:57 pm
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ebtnut
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Si noted the two Bachmann locos, and I would add a third - the Richmond 4-4-0, ne Ma and Pa 4 and 5. These locos were built in 1901 fitting right to the time frame. Ma and Pa No. 6 represents the loco after it was rebuilt in the 1920's with piston valves and superheat. The MDC old-time 2-6-0 and 2-8-0 fit in well, too. If you want to venture into brass, the PFM Ma and Pa 2-8-0 is essentially the same loco as the MDC with more details. It can be repowered with a Micro-mo and can motor to bring down the current draw. In general, any loco with piston valves is really too modern. Yes, they were coming in by the later part of the first decade of the 1900's but didn't really become common until after WWI.

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 Posted: Tue Apr 24th, 2018 04:47 am
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Helmut F
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When did loco's generally start appearing in black vs. the colorful themes?

One issue I see with a lot of locos is they have a dynamo, and it seems they did not become that common until some time after 1910? I suppose an exacto can take care of that though, but I would probably not do that mod until I know a particular model is a keeper.


Kitbash,
coming from dealing with electricity and electronics, power is amperage, i.e. V x W = A. for me, tourque is torque. :D

How difficult is it to find a can motor and other parts necessary (if any) to replace an open frame motor with a can motor?

Si,
That was my gut, go with Bachmann, but I thought I would ask some questions about how different loco's fit into the time frame I want as well as what makes/models are reliable and decent quality.

ebtnut,
Never heard of Richmond, but googling yields some results.

And of course thank you guys, all is appreciated.

Last edited on Tue Apr 24th, 2018 04:48 am by Helmut F



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 Posted: Tue Apr 24th, 2018 11:07 am
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Steven B
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Don't forget about the various Colorado Midland locos, brass, but right in the sweet spot.  If I remember right, they were imported by MEW.  1880s-1900.  2-8-0s 4-6-0s and 0-6-0s.  All the pinnacle of RR technology for that timeframe.



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 Posted: Tue Apr 24th, 2018 11:31 am
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Kitbash0n30
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Helmut F wrote: Kitbash,
coming from dealing with electricity and electronics, power is amperage, i.e. V x W = A. for me, tourque is torque. :D

How difficult is it to find a can motor and other parts necessary (if any) to replace an open frame motor with a can motor?
As you might then gather, I'm not an electronics guy!
Easy to find, been common since 1980s.
Sources all the way from Walthers to NorthWest Short Line to Micro Loco Motion's coreless motors; and others.

And then there's this philosophy,

So I decided to do my own thing with this old Hobbyline plastic kit! Using some Mantua/Tyco wheels, a CD tray motor, a few spare gears, and a little brass and aluminum stock material, I put together a decent running 0-4-0T with great low speed control. All that and I barely even spent anything on it!
https://youtu.be/FF_Bs4z5AnE

Last edited on Tue Apr 24th, 2018 11:34 am by Kitbash0n30



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 Posted: Wed Apr 25th, 2018 10:31 pm
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jtrain
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My Bachmann 4-4-0 with DCC and Sound runs like a dream.

I've also got a Roundhouse 2-6-0 which suffered an accident that left two wires between the tender and the locomotive broken. I'm looking at rebuilding the engine to be more prototypical for a CBQ prototype using 3D printed parts, remote control, and battery power.

As it is the engine is a bit fragile for something that will need to travel around.  I also didn't like the loco-tender connection since I can't unplug the wires without removing the tender shell and exposing the circuit boards.

That being said, the engine runs just fine, smooth and quiet.

I had an older Bachmann 4-6-0 but now it's just parts. I'd look at getting a newer version over the older models since the quality has improved dramatically.



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 Posted: Thu Apr 26th, 2018 04:32 am
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Helmut F
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Thanks James.

The Bachmann's are a bit more than I want to spend right now it seems.

What do you all think of the IHC 4-4-0 Premier models? Specifically I have found a M818 Great Northern I might be able to nab.

Also an IHC 2-6-0 M515 B&O? There is a Premier version as well, but it is quite a bit higher in price (Western Maryland #139 M556)(I like the 556 part!).

Thanks!

EDIT: I am not sure if the road names or models matter in these, but included them just in case.

EDIT 2: It seems most of what I am finding (at lower prices) has piston valves and would seem to be for rebuilt locos in the smaller range I am looking at.  Were any new 2-6-0, 4-4-0, or 4-6-0's built 1900-1910?

Last edited on Thu Apr 26th, 2018 06:24 am by Helmut F



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