Freerails Home 
Freerails > Model Railroad Forums > Track Planning > Mountain 'Big Boy' Track ... Gauge-1

Freerails IS ACCEPTING new Members ... To join Freerails ... See how to Register as a Member in the 'Joining Freerails' Forum

 Moderated by: .  
AuthorPost
Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
Hi,

This is the track planning portion of my project previously described in:

http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=8145&forum_id=45

Steve P

Attachment: IMG_0330-720.JPG (Downloaded 281 times)

Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
This is the xtrkcad image.

The turnaround is on the left, the passenger station in the center of the turnaround.
The lower left is for loco and passenger car storage.
The freight yard is the area in the lower center/left.
The timbers on the right are the 1st 16' of a 96' 'trestle' that extends across a septic field to an orchard. 
The mainline, arrival/departure and drill track extend across it.
The grade will be kept at 0% across its length. The climb will start in the orchard.

Steve P


Attachment: passA7-2048.png (Downloaded 273 times)

Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
Hi,

Here is a turbo CAD image of the previously mentioned trestle.
The portion of the trestle shown on the xtrkcad image is on the lower right.
It will support the main line, arrival/departure and drill tracks (left to right).
There will be several pairs of turnout switches between each to allow the switcher to cut out & assemble cars.

Steve P


Attachment: Capture3.PNG (Downloaded 265 times)

Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
Hi,

Here's the xtrkcad image of the trestle. 
The starting platform shown two images back is repeated on the left. 
Note that it is over 96' of track. :)

The top rail is the mainline, the middle the arrival & departure track, and the bottom the drill track. 
The a/d track is designed to hold one long consist of approx. 45 cars, or 2 shorter trains.

Steve P


Attachment: trestle7.png (Downloaded 217 times)

Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
Hi,

An image of the test layout of the freight yard/warehouse area.  Two team tracks
and a dummy warehouse, 3 1941 Chevy flatbeds.

Steve P

Attachment: IMG_0337-960.JPG (Downloaded 215 times)

Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
Hi,

I'm going to start gluing down track today,
finally dry enough outside.


Questions:

I'm planning on using some quality caulk under the ties,
is this going to work?

I have realized a new plan is necessary to handle my steep grades. 
I used a transit to determine the actual grade from end to end, and it's 6.25%

:sad:

To handle this, I now plan on using a pair of horseshoes,
to fold the path back then forward again,
to slightly more than double the amount of track.
 
I can get it to 2.78% by doing this.

When I build the actual horseshoe should I keep it at 0% grade,
to compensate for the additional effort needed to pull cars thru the curve?
Or should I attempt to make it around 2.5% grade?

I plan on using (LGB) R5 track, 15' diameter.
Should I bank the curve, and if so, how much?

Steve P


Helmut
Registered


Joined: Sun Feb 17th, 2013
Location: Friedberg, Germany
Posts: 1180
Status: 
Offline
 
I doubt that any caulk will withstand the UV irradiation outside.
Years ago, I tried asphalt to glue down the ties - it was well covered with ballast but finally gave in.
So the tracks were heaved up.
Then I just put dowels in the concrete breeze forming the trough where the ballasted tracks ran in,
and fastened the ties with unobtrusive brass straps and stainless screws.
It was sufficient to have them roughly 1' apart.
Trouble ended immediately until the final trouble of being forced to dismantle the layout showed up.
No remedy for that of course.
The horseshoe curves' grade should be half of your ruling grade to compensate for friction.
Banking is definitely contraproductive in your case.
Just my 2 cts.


Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
Helmut,

I am using a lifetime exterior grade caulk.  I want it to be semi removable if necessary
till I'm sure of the layout.  If sections lift I can try something else under that section.

Out of curiosity, why not some banking in the turns?

I've been told that to change grades, I should gradually change over a 6' length.
I assume I would use  "bendable" track, but how do you bend that small an arc?
I calculated that a 3% grade over 6' would be roughly a 100' radius.

Steve P

Last edited on Thu Jul 19th, 2018 03:28 pm by Steve P

Helmut
Registered


Joined: Sun Feb 17th, 2013
Location: Friedberg, Germany
Posts: 1180
Status: 
Offline
 
@Steve P
In RR engineering terms, a banked curved track's outer rail is above the inner rail in order to compensate for centrifugal forces.
This is not needed in model railroading,
as it increases the risk of your cars being turned over to the inner side of the curve when pulling a long drag.
Vertical transition curve radius for grade changes, should be some 5..6 times your longest loco's wheelbase.
When using code 332 rail, bending it vertically is indeed a challenge when using ready-made track sections.
In that case I'd rather use relatively short sections, join and place them on a properly shaped bed to achieve the transition.


Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
Hi,

It has occurred to me that I should be placing some sort of expansion gaps in the long lines of track,
to keep summer heat & winter cold from buckling the track. 
Is there a rule of thumb for this?

Steve P
 

Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
Hi,

Bigboy arriving next Wednesday, depot almost ready:

Steve P

Attachment: IMG_0353-960x720.JPG (Downloaded 142 times)

Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
Hi,

Bridge to the orchard (with mainline, a/d tracks & drill track) is started:

Steve P

Attachment: IMG_0354-960x720.JPG (Downloaded 134 times)

Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
Hi,

Phase I of the track is complete. 

First pic is the far end of bridge, which will have a turnaround added as part of phase II.

Second pic is the bridge as seen from  upper deck of house.

Third pic is the view of the bridge from the freight yard.

Note that only the main line is complete.  The A/D track, drill track and freight yard feather are unfinished. 
That's another $2500 worth of switches and track, maybe next year...

The turn around will start next week. 
I hope to finish that, as well as a couple of tunnels thru that fence for the main line and the turn around before winter sets in.

Steve P













slateworks
Registered


Joined: Wed Oct 6th, 2010
Location: Twickenham, United Kingdom
Posts: 984
Status: 
Offline

Crikey!
That's one heck of a trestle!



Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
Hi,

I had a difficult design problem. 
The main depot area had to be incorporated into the patio area, the only real outdoor area that made sense. 
But I live on the side of a mountain, so that meant no easy way to run track from that point.
 
The bridge/trestle not only gets me to the point where I can run the main line up thru my valley,
but is a usable place to put a pair of reasonable length arrival/departure tracks,
as well as a drill track long enough to assemble a 60 boxcar consist for the Big Boy. 
There is not a level area on the entire property large enough to do that...

Steve P


Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
Hi,

The turnaround is finished.


The mainline enters here. There will be a tunnel thru the fence..




It is about 6' off the ground at the high point.




The consist returns to the main line here. There will be a tunnel the length of the concrete block base.




Tunnels are next, followed by a "mountain" covering them.

Steve P


Si.
Moderator


Joined: Thu Feb 23rd, 2012
Location: London
Posts: 5622
Status: 
Offline
 
" Bigboy arriving next Wednesday "



Hi Steve  :wave:



HEY ! ... That musta been a 'Red Letter Day' as they say !  :bg:



Don't know what to say, other than it's all lookin' AWESOME !  :shocked:

Great to see your photos of the whole setup & planning ... N I C E !  :cool:



What's on your 'Wish List' for the future ?  ???



:moose:



Si.


Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
Si,

I am using turboCAD as we speak to design a concrete form for the 2 tunnels where the main/turnaround passes thru the inner yard fence.
Weather permitting I should be able to pour the 1st tunnel tomorrow, then the 2nd several days later
(re-using the form so have to wait 2-3 days before stripping).

After that I am going to build a "mountain" on top of them,
with a combination of tan breeze and granite rip-rap left over from a previous dig on the property.

Steve P.


Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
Video of me   testing tunnel clearances

Steve P



slateworks
Registered


Joined: Wed Oct 6th, 2010
Location: Twickenham, United Kingdom
Posts: 984
Status: 
Offline

Impressive Steve.
Looking forward to seeing a full train in view.



Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
Doug,

I don't really have a full train yet. 
Got the 2 boxcars used for battery & control (deadrail).
A caboose, 4 UP passenger cars, plus a couple oddball things in the wrong scale.
 
Been spending all my money on track and building supplies. 
Hopefully this winter I will be able to expand my rolling stock collection...

Picture here:

http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=8145&forum_id=45&page=4


Si.
Moderator


Joined: Thu Feb 23rd, 2012
Location: London
Posts: 5622
Status: 
Offline
Hi Steve  :wave:



:cool: :cool: K in'   T :cool: :cool:   C :cool: :cool: L   !



Would you like your Thread moved from the 'Track Planning' Forum ...  L:

... to the 'Large Scale' Forum ?  ???



I'm thinking more people might see it there, who are lookin' for the BIG stuff !  :shocked:

It has gone nicely, from a Track Plan to REALITY ! ... real quick !!  :)



:moose: :moose: :moose: :moose: :moose:




Si.


Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
Si,


It was perhaps too quick, almost a bridge too far...


I am building an 8' retaining wall,
where I made a cut in backfill along the house to make room for the trestle. 

It was sliding severely so it had to be done,
although it really had nothing to do with the trains per say.


I have realized I need to re-engineer track layout in the freight yard area.  
Not a lot of work pulling up the existing track, but I am stuck with 6-7 R3 switches.

Note: the MTH BigBoy is rated for R3 curves, and does work with them,
but it cannot handle R3 switches. 

It tries to ride up the inside guard rail and proceeds to derail. 
So I have to replace them with R5 switches.

:bang:

Other than that it went better than expected. 

Got interested in G gauge last winter,
started to build the control and battery boxcars in April, 
and am about to finish up the 1st phase of the setup in a few more weeks.  

About 7 mores days for the 2nd concrete tunnel to cure,
then a few more days building a "mountain" over the two of them.


Steve P


Si.
Moderator


Joined: Thu Feb 23rd, 2012
Location: London
Posts: 5622
Status: 
Offline
" ... it cannot handle R3 switches.  It tries to ride up the inside guard rail and proceeds to derail "



Hi Steve  :wave:



:f: about that bunch of R3s.


What radius is an R3 switch ?  ???


The yard area looks like it will be an interesting puzzle to crack !  :brill:



:moose:




Si.


Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
Si,


These are LGB R3 switches. 
So same diameter as LGB R3 track: 2390mm center to center.
Which I believe is 94".  
So radius would be 47"


Steve P



Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
There's light at the end of the tunnel(s):

7 days of curing and I can build the "mountain" on top of them.

Steve P

Attachment: IMG_0438-900.JPG (Downloaded 95 times)

Last edited on Tue Sep 11th, 2018 08:36 pm by Steve P

Michael M
Registered


Joined: Thu Jan 26th, 2017
Location: San Bernardino, California USA
Posts: 1551
Status: 
Offline
 
Steve,

Any concern about cars maybe getting blown off the track by a high wind,

when going around that reverse loop?


Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
Michael,

Yes, in fact I have concerns about derailment in general. 


There will always be a struggle with debris on the tracks,
it's rugged country with pine cones, leaves, etc. blowing all over the place. 

And most places the edge includes a sizeable drop.


You'll notice that I made the planks of that curve fairly wide, 
wide enough that the nose of the BigBoy never extends beyond the edge,
when going thru the curve.
 
This will allow me to add a fairly simple guard rail,
by merely tacking up some sort of band like cedar lawn edging. 


Steve P


Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
The mountain has been added.
Will make it taller next year...

Have cast concrete portals and am currently curing them. 

Have purchased some nice tile to decorate them,
then all that's left is to glue them up!


Attachment: IMG_0441-960.JPG (Downloaded 67 times)

Kyle Moore
Registered


Joined: Sat Sep 22nd, 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 35
Status: 
Offline
"G Scale Big Boy"


Make a consist of 2 for the fun of it? Looking good so far!

Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline

Hi

The 2 boxcars are the battery and electronics cars,
ie. radio-control, so they are necessary!

I hope to land some sort of job this winter,
so that I might buy 10-20 pieces of rolling stock.
 
I expect to be setting the final pieces of tile on the tunnel portals this evening,
so pictures of those will be posted today or tomorrow.

Steve P


Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
The portals are finished. 

The thinset/grout has to dry for 7 days before they can installed outside.

Steve P


Attachment: IMG_0455-720.JPG (Downloaded 189 times)

Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
Finally got a break in the weather allowing me to install the portals:





Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
Hi

Been busy with the electronics this winter,
finally back to working outside on the track. 

Tore almost everything up,
and restarting with a "loose" prototype of Omaha Union Station.

Cheyenne will become a signpost down the line.

Have installed all the track planks on the trestle,
and as much track as I currently have.


Attachment: OmahaTrestle.03-16-2020.JPG (Downloaded 123 times)

Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline

Finished laying the Omaha yards (aka trestle) track.

The full sized .png

The xtrkCAD diagram

Steve


Attachment: ss4.jpg (Downloaded 85 times)

Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
Hi

Been VERY busy with life,
so no progress since the last post.


Decided to add a little whimsy to my world:





Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
Hi,

I've finished the concrete retaining wall for the granite breeze patio, aka. Omaha depot yards. 

Expanded the granite area for the R5 turnaround.

Final step is to install 2 curved and 1 straight plank for the right side of the R5 curve.

Steve


Attachment: lo8.jpg (Downloaded 40 times)

Traingeekboy
Registered


Joined: Sun Aug 28th, 2011
Location:  
Posts: 497
Status: 
Offline
 
Nice layout.

I hadn't seen this discussion before,

yet the minute I saw the photos I thought: Gee, this must be in Colorado.


I really like garden railways, I am into the HO scale ones,

but I will keep peeking in here to watch progress.


Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
I am on the east slope of the divide,

can hear the trains running thru Rollinsville and up to the Moffat Tunnel.

Steve


Traingeekboy
Registered


Joined: Sun Aug 28th, 2011
Location:  
Posts: 497
Status: 
Offline
 
I lived in boulder for a long time 70's to 80's.

Did a lot of car trips up that way with my dad.


Now I am in Denver close to 1st and B-way.


Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
I've finished the elevated portion of the turnaround.

I've laid out the 2nd half of the turnaround on the granite breeze,
as well as 2 platform tracks and the return track. 

Steve





Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
I've finished laying the depot track: mainline in/out, 
R5 turn-around, 2 passenger loading tracks. 

Note how each joint (and middle of 4' sections) are glued to brick paver. 

Final step will be to bed track with granite breeze. 





Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
Everything is done :glad: 

Here is a collection of pics with all my engines and rolling stock on display.

Attachment: Fini2.jpg (Downloaded 70 times)

Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
Finished excavating the area for the Ogden, UT Union Pacific depot & yards.

In the top center of this pic you can see a thin horizontal red line,
this is the existing turn-around just outside the tunnels. 

There will be approximately 125' of 0% track between that point and Ogden. 

On the right is a piece of rebar with red flagging marking the location of a bridge abutment. 
This bridge will cross a large bog in the center of the property.

The other end will be approximately 75' distant,
and will be the location of Sacramento, CA.

Sacramento will have track heading East to San Jose,
which will connect to both San Francisco and LA. 

This will probably take several years to complete,
but my 2 Daylights insist I do it.

:bg:

Attachment: OgdenUT1.jpg (Downloaded 56 times)

Michael M
Registered


Joined: Thu Jan 26th, 2017
Location: San Bernardino, California USA
Posts: 1551
Status: 
Offline
 
Steve,

You have a great backdrop with the forest in the background.
I'm envious of your location.

How well does everything hold from winter? 
Any movement in the track or warping in the supporting timbers?


Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
Michael,

The main trestle (Omaha yards) is holding up very well.
 
The planks are cedar, and everything has multiple coats of quality paint.
I over-engineered the hell out of it so it's staying true. 

The Omaha depot (aka. the granite breeze patio) was a different story. 

I used plastic stabilizer which created a very nice, hard surface,
but after one Winter it was crumbling and the outside edge was falling down the hill. 

I hope the concrete curb I just poured will stop the erosion. 

I relaid the track by attaching to brick pavers,
and no longer depend on the breeze to hold it in place. 

I am working on a plan to form the track bed from the tunnels to Ogden,
with concrete to avoid the pavers and provide longevity... 

Steve


Alwin
Registered


Joined: Sat Jun 29th, 2013
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 627
Status: 
Offline
 
Hi Steve,

Good to see that the first section is finished.

And you have a big concrete water tower, to refill all the thirsty steam engines!  :2t:


Alwin


pipopak
Moderator


Joined: Wed Apr 13th, 2011
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 2003
Status: 
Offline
 
I would be very afraid of the giants leaving footprints the size of your steamers...

Jose.



Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
Hey, I'm only a size 12!

Steve



Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
Finished surveying the bridge abutment locations and elevations.
 
It's about a 55' span, probably do a 10' - 12' - 12' - 12' - 10' trestle. 

This looks to avoid the sinkholes hidden out there! 

Steve





Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
Bridge abutments built. 

Still need a fair amount of back fill, but that has to wait for the concrete to harden. 

Will start the 4 support pads while waiting for that. 

Steve





Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
Couldn't find any dry areas for support pads, everywhere you dig it starts to fill with water.
Between Spring runoff and Winter frost heave a pad would never stay put. 

So came up with a new idea for support.
 
Will dig an 8" x 30" x 24" deep wedge shaped hole and pound in a pair of 6 foot iron tee posts. 
Cut off any excess off the posts and fill with concrete. 

Hopefully 6' will hit something solid. L:


Attachment: capture2.jpg (Downloaded 41 times)

pipopak
Moderator


Joined: Wed Apr 13th, 2011
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 2003
Status: 
Offline
 
Iron into water will not last very long.

I would look into precast concrete posts.

Jose.


Michael M
Registered


Joined: Thu Jan 26th, 2017
Location: San Bernardino, California USA
Posts: 1551
Status: 
Offline
 
Maybe a backhoe and a few yards of concrete with rebar.

You may have to blast.  Got any spare C4?



pipopak
Moderator


Joined: Wed Apr 13th, 2011
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 2003
Status: 
Offline
 
(hush) yes...

Jose.


Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
Jose,

Technically I suppose they are cold rolled steel... 

Anyways they are salvage from around the property,
zinc galv. base, well painted for outdoor use.  

I know they will eventually rust,
but I'm pushing seventy, so if they last 15-20 years I'm good.

:old dude:  Steve


Steve P
Registered


Joined: Fri Apr 20th, 2018
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 149
Status: 
Offline
 
It's starting to look like a real trestle. 

Design is done, I hope to start digging and setting forms tomorrow.

Steve






UltraBB 1.172 Copyright © 2007-2016 Data 1 Systems