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'DelTang' Failures - What Am I Doing Wrong ?
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 Posted: Sun Nov 17th, 2019 06:31 pm
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Toeffelholm
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Rick, 

If you have the motor control "low off",
the motor voltage is zero when the throttle potentiometer is turned completely left,
and it is max when it is turned completely right.
With changing direction with a separate toggle switch.

If the motor control is "center off", 
the motor voltage is zero when the throttle potentiometer is in the middle position,
and max in the end positions, completely left and completely right,
for forwards and backwards direction.

That you know I think, at least the method you are using.


The thing is, that the Rx's are programmed to wait for a throttle zero before they do anything.
That is to prevent, that a switched on loco shoots away when the throttle is accidentally on a high velocity position.

So in case the Rx is programmed to obey to "center off" and you are used to control your locos "low off",
your throttle is completely left but the Rx interprets this position as max. forwards or backwards,
and the loco doesn't move until you turned the throttle to middle position.

The same vice versa.
If the Rx is programmed to "low off" and you start with "center off",
the Rx interprets this as half opened throttle and waits until you turn the throttle completely left.


With this Selecta thing,
the fact that you ordered without Selecta may not necessarily mean that you got one.
You know, humans make mistakes, sometimes, not you and me for sure, but others.
So worth checking I think.

Juergen




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modelling in 1:22.5 on 32mm and 16.5mm track
Actual project: 7/8" scale on 45 mm track
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 Posted: Mon Nov 18th, 2019 10:49 am
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Rick Dow
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Juergen,

Excellent explanation.  Thank you very much.  


In my case, I have always ordered my Transmitters to be a "Low Off" model.  

So I am going to presume that the DelTang Receiver are sent from the factory,
already programmed to be either "Low Off" or "Centre OFF."

So if I go back to my two failed conversions,
and try running them again with my "Low Off" Transmitter....
the subsequent test I would perform,
is to move the Transmitter throttle dial to the halfway point and stop.
Then twist it a little further to see it the locomotive responds? 


Just re-read your post, Frank.
Thank you very much. 

I am not sure that I entirely understand your last paragraph. 
Could you explain that once again, please?
See below. 

Thanks,  Rick


" If this is enabled and the centre off/low off option is not what you think,
the loco would not start when you first turned the knob a little,
it might only start after say a full turn which would run through all the possible off positions.
Just a possible cause of the loco not starting.
"




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 Posted: Mon Nov 18th, 2019 12:50 pm
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fallen
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Hi Rick,

I think you have got the point actually, from your post, but just in case ...

First, the radio control system works by the transmitters sending the position of the controls to the receivers.
The receivers decide how to respond, and practically all the programming of options is in the receivers.
So the low off or centre off option is set in the receiver, and should be the same whatever transmitter you use it with.

Second, the receivers do not drive the loco until they have been "armed",
as the instructions call it, by the transmitter speed control being set to zero.
This is to stop the loco setting off at speed when first turned on.
However, the zero setting is actually determined by the programming in the receiver as described above,
not by the transmitter.

So, to "arm" a low off receiver, you have to set the speed knob to the extreme counter anticlockwise setting,
whereas to "arm" a centre zero receiver, you have to set the speed knob to the centre position.

If the setting in the receiver is not what you think it will not start to control the loco when turned on as you expect it to.
A centre off setting would need you to turn the knob to the centre position to start to control the loco.
Whereas if you thought it was a low off setting,
you would expect it to start once the knob is set to the extreme anti clockwise position.

Just as you say in your last post,
if it does not start from the extreme anti clockwise position,
set it to the mid point and see if it starts from there.

Hope this helps

Frank


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 Posted: Tue Nov 19th, 2019 02:53 am
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Rick Dow
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Frank,

Very well explained and thank you very much.
I understand that particular facet of the transmitter/receiver relationship,
a lot better than I did before we exchanged these posts.

I do have another question.
I believe I have wired the battery/receiver/motor correctly
(exactly the same as my other successful locomotives).
 
And here is a description of this evening's actions and the results:

1.  I push down the red button on the transmitter, it clicks and stays down and glows red.

2.  I pass the magnet near the reed switch and the receiver's power light comes on and remains solidly on (not flashing)

3.   I have my "Low Off" throttle tuned back to zero.

4.   Momentum is set at zero.

5.   I open the throttle and nothing happens (yet again).

6.   I turn the throttle all the way through the range from zero to full speed a couple of times... nothing.

7.    Then I set the throttle to half open (like it was a Centre Off) then I opened it up, but no response.

8.    Next, I turned the throttle off by pressing the red button again. It pops back up and the red light goes off. 
       At that point the solid power light in the receiver goes off as well, but then after a second or two, it begins blinking.  

9.   I place the magnet near the reed switch and the light goes off.
     
(these actions are identical to my other locomotives with exception that they all function properly)


Question:  
Does it matter to the motor in the locomotive if the red and black power wires are reversed?
I didn't think it did, except that the engine will run in reverse if the wires are reversed.


I will scrap this receiver tomorrow (don't worry, it won't go into the waste can) 
and try another one as an experiment in case the receiver is faulty.

Your thoughts?

Thanks

Rick




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 Posted: Tue Nov 19th, 2019 06:36 am
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fallen
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Hi Rick,

Thanks for setting out very clearly what is happening with the receiver.

It all sounds as expected except the loco does not move!

The behaviour of the LED is as expected.

The receiver should have been "armed",
by your moving the throttle through the full range,
so it should have moved.

It sounds very much like the receiver is at fault.

On the wires, there should be four wires connected to the receiver.
Usually these are red, black, and two the same colour,
although what colour it is may vary.
I have seen orange, brown, yellow, it does not matter what colour they are.

The red and black are the power in to the receiver.
They should be connected red to battery positive, black to battery negative,
and it does matter which way round these are,
as the receiver will not work and will probably be damaged if they are reversed.

The two the same colour are the wires to the motor,
and if these are reversed the motor will run in the reverse direction,
but otherwise it should work OK.

Frank


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 Posted: Tue Nov 19th, 2019 06:51 am
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davecttr
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The red power wire connects to the + positive connector,
and the black power wire to the - connector.

If you bought your Rx wired they should be correct.
If they are wired the wrong way round, the Rx is probably broken.

The motor wires should be both the same colour.

The sequence you list should work for a correctly wired Rx-62,
and is it a Rx62 you are testing?

If it is a Rx61 or Rx60 it does not have e-switch capability,
and should not have an attached reed switch.




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 Posted: Tue Nov 19th, 2019 11:01 am
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Toeffelholm
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From my own experience I can say,
that I once accidentally connected a Li-Po battery the wrong way round to the Rx,
and the result was a short circuit and some nice little flames on the isolation of the wires. 

I could disconnect the battery quickly, so nothing seriously affected.
The Rx itself was rather unimpressed by this, and worked as before, also the battery.

Juergen




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modelling in 1:22.5 on 32mm and 16.5mm track
Actual project: 7/8" scale on 45 mm track
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 Posted: Wed Nov 20th, 2019 12:48 am
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Rick Dow
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Alas, when I fatefully crossed the wires on a battery/ receiver combination,
I created an almost instant, very swollen Li-Po,
that managed to both ignite itself, and also blow the receiver.

Both were obviously toast and ended up on my lawn,
in the frying pan I keep handy in the train room. 
I guarantee this needs to happen only one time to a model railroader,
and he will definitely learn his lesson.

That Li-Po reminded me of the song about the guy,
who was trying to put out a fire using gasoline.


Today I tried a new Rx62 in my Mantua 2-6-6-2 logging locomotive,
but still to no avail.


Next I removed the body from an old DC locomotive,
and then plugged in an even older DC transformer to an electrical outlet. 
When I hooked up the two lead wires,
from the transformer to the motor of the DC locomotive..... off it went.

Next, I hooked up the same two leads from the transformer,
to the two terminals on the Mantua
(it's what they call a flat coreless motor I believe??)   

Regardless, unless there is some kind of difference in a flat motor and a round one....
there was no response. 
So I think I may have a dud motor.


This means that I have purchased three Mantua 2-6-6-2 locomotives,
from individual sellers on Ebay,
One was old and DC.
A second one was DCC.
And the third unit was a relatively new unit with DCC, sound,
and a unique coupling connection with the tender.    

So far, two of the three have motors that don't appear to operate.


So I'm thinking that both my receivers are fine,
and my conversions were probably fine.
I believe the motors are both bad.  

Any other thoughts?  ???  

Those flat coreless motors are exactly the same as any other motor,
when it comes to receiving DC power.... correct?


Thanks

Rick




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 Posted: Wed Nov 20th, 2019 09:23 am
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Toeffelholm
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Really ?
You didn't check before if the motor is running at all ?

I assume that you at least stripped off all the DCC stuff from the locos,
and that you connected the transformer to nothing else than the bare motor connections ?

Juergen




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modelling in 1:22.5 on 32mm and 16.5mm track
Actual project: 7/8" scale on 45 mm track
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 Posted: Wed Nov 20th, 2019 12:29 pm
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fallen
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An obvious question,

but do you have a working motor, to connect to one of the receivers to test it?


Frank


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