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'DelTang' Failures - What Am I Doing Wrong ?
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 Posted: Wed Nov 20th, 2019 04:47 pm
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W C Greene
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Howdy Rick,

From your post I read that you are thinking that the Mantua "can motors" are "coreless"...they are not.
The can and flat can motors are fine as they are, but the technology is about 15-20 years old.
You need to check if the motors actually operate.

The problem with evilbay and other internet sellers, is that the seller is pushing old stuff, broken stuff,
or just doesn't know what the hell they are selling.

If you want quality motors, toss the old open frame motor,
and be sure the can types are in working order.

I have experience with the Mantua locos and the 2-6-6-2 in particular.
They are very simple to work on but beware that the motors, open frame and cans,
have one brush that is grounded to the back frame,
and if you don't get rid of that problem, you will continue to have troubles.

These are just my observations,
I spent years repairing model trains as a job and do actually know a little something.

Good luck and keep at it.

Woodie




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 Posted: Wed Nov 20th, 2019 06:33 pm
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Rick Dow
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Hi

Jeurgen said:
  
" Really?    You didn't check before if the motor is running at all? '



Short Answer:         

Jeurgen!  
You forget who you are dealing with here. 
Of course I didn't check to see if the motor was running.


Feeble Excuse: 
 
They were in their original boxes and all nicely packed away.
I assumed they were wonderful.


Jeurgen said: 

" I assume you removed all the DCC stuff from the locomotives."


Yes, and it gives me great pleasure removing all that stuff.


Frank Asked: 

" Do you have a working motor to connect to the receivers to test them?
"

Yes, and I will do so this evening.


Woodie said:  
 
" There is a possibility that one brush might be grounded to the back frame."


Ok, I was wondering about something like that.
Woodie, can you describe how I would investigate to discover if it's grounded,
and if so, how I would solve that problem? 


Thanks everyone

Rick




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 Posted: Wed Nov 20th, 2019 08:51 pm
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bobquincy
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$3.49 will buy a Pololu 2810 electronic-switch, with reverse voltage protection. 

I use them in most of my models,
after toasting a receiver from a one second lapse of polarity attention. 

A diode costs less, but the electronic-switch has almost no voltage drop.

boB




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 Posted: Wed Nov 20th, 2019 08:56 pm
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bobquincy
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If the receiver is toast, it is probably only the output devices
(they may be bubbled from the heat) but the rest of the receiver is still ok. 

So how do we use it without outputs? 
It can still power LEDs and such, *and* the PWM signals may still work. 

By routing them to a motor control board (like Pololu 2135)
you may be able to salvage the receiver.

boB




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 Posted: Thu Nov 21st, 2019 01:31 am
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W C Greene
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Rick, the old open frame Mantua motor IS GROUNDED to the frame,
and should be tossed anyway since it pulls too much power.

On those old motors, the grounded brush can be figured out,
by using a simple volt/ohm meter,
and checking for continuity between the motor's frame and each brush.

The "can" motors have isolated brushes so there SHOULD be no ground path.
If one is found in one of those, throw the thing out.

If I were looking for a good quality motor these days,
I would probably buy a Mashima or Cannon or something comparable.

It's a shame that Sagami motors are not available (maybe somebody has some),
they were the desired motor 20 years ago.

You might look on the net for Micro Loco Motion,
this fellow has nice coreless motors with or without gearheads.

Good luck...

Woodie




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 Posted: Thu Nov 21st, 2019 02:02 am
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bobquincy
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Sadly, Mr. Micro Locomotion (Eldon Shirey) passed away. 
No one has yet continued his legacy.
 
So we don't have a good place to go for high quality motors, at a decent price,
and for someone who can make knowledgeable recommendations of what motor to use.  

:(

boB




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 Posted: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 02:16 am
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Hal Pridgen
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Hang out here a while:

Repower group

And you can get some good info on newer replacement motors.





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 Posted: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 06:29 am
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Rick Dow
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Thanks Everyone for all the very helpful advice.


Up to this point, I have never replaced a motor in any HO locomotive,
but I would certainly like to be able to do so. 

I'm sure there are any number of model railroaders who do this kind of work regularly,
and that's what I believe I would need to do, to get these Mantua 2-6-6-2's running.  

I rewired two currently operating locomotives with my suspect receiver/transmitter pairs,
and they worked just fine.  That was good news. 

Very pleased to see that the problem I was having,
wasn't a function of either receiver or transmitter being flawed.


Thank you for suggesting the Repower Group, Hal.  Much appreciated.
I have signed up and will hopefully begin learning a few things.


As usual, Woodie - thanks for the great information and advice.


Rick




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 Posted: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 08:04 am
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fallen
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Glad you are finally getting things sort out.

Frank

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 Posted: Sun Nov 24th, 2019 10:46 pm
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Hal Pridgen
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Hi Rick,

You said
“For what its worth, this installation was on an Alco diesel by Atlas”

If that is an Atlas, that was actually made by Kato, 
motors are available on eBay that are almost a direct replacement for $3.

Very minor wiring modifications needed,
physically mounts right in.




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