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Alan Sewell
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Reg
Simpson did some aerial views of the mill at Shelton in the 1940's I think.
This is an enlargement of the "McCleary" mill next to the log dump (site of the old mill 3)
and clearly shoe the green lumber chain to the right of the mill next to the log dump tracks.
Hope this helps and not just adds to the confusion .
Alan
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Reg H
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Alan
This is good stuff.
If you go to BTS web site they have a suggested layout both of the interior of the mill and the entire mill complex.
It is different than what you have provided. Maybe east coast practice was different.
Reg
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Reg H
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Alan:
I skipped over and looked at the BTS site.
Working from limited knowledge of lumber mills, it looks like the Slatyfork mill is what we might call a stud mill.
There is no provision for heavy timbers.
The process starts with a band saw (actually two. The mill is a "two-saw" mill), then a transfer table to an edger, and then to a swing saw.
After the swing saw(s) there is a transfer table out to the loading dock, which is the dock off the larger of the side doors.
Reg
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Alan Sewell
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Hi Reg
I had a look at the BTS site as well,
and although there are some East Coast variations I think they have just made a lot of compromises,
or have been influenced by other modelers mills rather than going back to the prototype.
I am sure a two bandsaw mill would produce heavy timbers,
and there is no provision for grading boards just a transfer for unsorted lumber.
The tramway and drying yard looks way too small, as is the dry kiln.
Normally these are in banks and can cover an area nearly as big as the mill. Same for a planing mill.
I think the biggest problem is the lack of green chain,
and as often is the case with model mills, loading lumber straight on to railcars from a door in the mill.
Having said all this the main mill is a good basis for a model.
Whether using anymore of the BTS models as they are is a good idea,
really depends on your thoughts about the accuracy of the product,
and how comfortable you are with this.
Sorry for the rambling it is getting late this side of the pond
Alan
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Reg H
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Alan:
I had to stop and get some real work done.
I think there may be a matter of scale here, too.
I have a mill interior kit in 1/4" scale that is modeled from a small mill in northern California.
Apart from being a circular saw mill, the layout, taken from the turn of century prototype, is almost identical to the interior layout of the BTS kit.
Saw/edger/swing saw and out the door.
I would think, from a vast ignorance, that a very small mill might grade the lumber in the yard.
It has not been my intention of loading outbound cars at the loading dock.
With no drying provision, I would think, again, working from my ignorance, that a very small mill would dry, to the extent possible, in the yard.
Which would mean outbound loading would take place from the yard.
Though the BTS kit is a pretty large structure for a small model railroad, as mills go, it is rather small.
Another factor is that I am out to capture the essence, rather than getting down to rivet counting.
That was always a contrast between my approach to rail fanning and John's.
In fact, John did not consider himself a rail fan. He styled himself an industrial archeologist.
On our trips together, while John worked to collect all the details he could, I would stand back and try and capture the feel of the scene.
That carries over into my modeling.
Reg
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Alan Sewell
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Hi Reg
Yes my modeling is also trying to get the right atmosphere rather than complete accuracy. Although I do like to feel I am basing things on reality.
I agree that dried lumber is likely to be loaded in the drying yard and not straight out of the mill. However often it seems there is a loading took to which the lumber is taken and then loaded to railcars,
The attached shows this
Alan Attachment: millyard.jpg (Downloaded 44 times)
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Alan Sewell
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Reg
Going back again to the BTS mill I do think the missing part is the green chain. The transfer at the rear of the mill could easily feed one and nearly all rail served mills I have seen have this feature. From the green chain the graded lumber would go the the drying yard/dry kilns or maybe further processing.
The attached is from the Brown Lumber text book and shows a generic lay out.
I will post a couple of scans next of the McNary mill in Arizona on the Apache Railway.
Alan Attachment: mill 3.jpg (Downloaded 43 times)
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Alan Sewell
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Plan of McNary mill from Sanborn map. Green chain is marked
Alan Attachment: mcnaryplanfr.jpg (Downloaded 42 times)
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Alan Sewell
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Finally - hurrah you say !!!!!
This is the preserved McLean mill on Vancouver Island . The green chain is in the foreground
Enough for tonight?
Alan
Attachment: Picture1.jpg (Downloaded 40 times)
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Reg H
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Alan:
I am not quite certain that I understand what the green chain is.
Looking at the final photograph, it appears to be a facility to sort and grade the lumber as it comes out of the mill.
That would be easy to add as an extension.
The one in the photo appears to be a roller table.
I was already planning, space permitting, a raised loading dock.
I find that I may have room for a single stall engine house that I more or less inherited from John.
He passed it to me with instructions to do some minor repairs, which I didn't get to before he passed away.
John stated that it had been built by John Labbe, which is pretty cool.
But there is nothing on the model to verify that and it is a bit difficult for me to ask either one for further details.
Reg
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Alan Sewell
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Hi Reg
Yes the green chain or sometimes the sorting table is there to grade/ sort lumber.
I would have thought adding it to the side of the mill would be relatively easy.
Having an engine house from John Labbe via JohnH is as you say pretty cool.
I think somewhere I have something on John Labbe's modelling.
Can't remember if it included an engine house.
Any pictures?
Alan
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Reg H
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Alan:
I will take a photo.
Reg
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Reg H
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Alan, et.al.
Here are some photos of the engine house rumored to have been built by John Labbe.
The lighting was not good and I had to PhotoShop (actually Gimp is the photo processor I use) to show any detail.
Reg
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Reg H
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I think this has some definite possiblities.
Obviously, the engine house was built with larger locomotives in mind.
Reg
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Alan Sewell
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Hi Reg
Yes the engine house has some real atmosphere.
Would look good as part of the mill complex.
The GE 70-ton looks a bit lost, but I think that stall might be for working on skidders or yarders
( which would need a bigger vertical clearance) as well as lokeys.
I would think the right hand stall might be for lokeys,
but then again most operations with the exception of Simpson seemed to keep the working units outside.
Hope you can find a location for the shop at Henderson Bay Lumber
Alan
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Reg H
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Alan:
Yes, I am pretty sure there is a place for this building. It has a lot of character.
Reg
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Reg H
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I am posting more detailed progress on the mill in the Kit Building forum.
Reg
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Reg H
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The Labbe engine house will not be included in the current layout.
It is simply too large for the space available.
I will start shopping for either plans or a kit for a suitable small engine house following completion of the mill.
Reg
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Alan Sewell
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Reg
Sorry that the Labbe enginehouse/shops will not fit your mill scene.
Shame as it looked pretty authentic.
There are three smallish engine house plans I have in my collection :-
1. A Russ Simpson plan of the Graeagle Lumber single stall barn and shops.
This measures a prototype 60’ x 80’
2. In the “Logging Modelers Handbook” there is a two stall version as used by the McGoldrick Lumber Co.
This is 32’ x 74’
3. In Robert Turner’s “Logging by Rail” on p87 there's a plan of International Timber 2 stall loco and car shop with machine shop extension.
This measures 65’x80’. The loco single stall as part of this is 25’ wide
I can scan these for you if any is any good.
As far as kits I have always thought the old Muir Models Quincy engine house kit would be good if they are still available.
I think it was used by the Quincy Lumber Co in CA for a number of years.
Alan
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