Freerails Home 
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register

Freerails IS ACCEPTING new Members ... To join Freerails ... See how to Register as a Member in the 'Joining Freerails' Forum

Batteries Or Super-Capacitors ?
 Moderated by: . Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  5  6  Next Page Last Page  
New Topic Reply Printer Friendly
 Rating:  Rating
AuthorPost
 Posted: Thu Mar 11th, 2021 01:42 pm
  PMQuoteReply
31st Post
Helmut
Registered


Joined: Sun Feb 17th, 2013
Location: Friedberg, Germany
Posts: 1242
Status: 
Offline
 
@Steve

Do you use narrow-band FM to control different locos,
or do you use short, pulse-coded telegrams to address them?


I made such a system, using an IR-RC5-receiver chip as a decoder,
to control 32 locos, and I implemented 4 ancillary functions per address.
Each telegram was some 20msec long therefore.

But that was way back when in 1990 and intended for G scale.


In case you ever heard of Uhlenbrock IR-control
(then marketed by Chalk Rail in the UK)  that was my system.

It started as an IR system,
and I just replaced the IR-Diodes by 433MHz-modules.

I still have one working sample in my 'museum'.




____________________
Regards, H.
Back To Top

 Posted: Thu Mar 11th, 2021 02:48 pm
  PMQuoteReply
32nd Post
Steve Soar
Registered
 

Joined: Sun Feb 24th, 2019
Location:  
Posts: 47
Status: 
Offline
 
Hi

Wow that's something, very impressive.
 
My own history with loco control only goes back to 2000. 
Made a few PWM track controllers with remote hand held controller. 
My neighbor who is an avid modeler has a couple of these on his analogue layout.


My latest controller is based around EV1572 433MHz RX and TX 4 channel, 
the outputs from the receiver are ON/OFF signals,
which the PIC sorts out into PWM for accelerate or decelerate, or forwards/reverse.
 
The PIC controls a full bridge motor IC.
I know this is very basic, but it controls quite well and is very cheap.
 
The RX is visible on the photo in my last posting,
the decoder/motor driver is underneath the RX and is the same size).


Have you looked at PP3 Ni-Mh batteries, they claim 900mAh!! charge at 1C,
discharge at 0.3C, which gives 270mA. max.

I have ordered one so will try it when my new PCB arrives.  
Cheaper than Li-Ion or supercaps.


Best wishes

Steve


Back To Top

 Posted: Fri Mar 12th, 2021 07:34 am
  PMQuoteReply
33rd Post
Helmut
Registered


Joined: Sun Feb 17th, 2013
Location: Friedberg, Germany
Posts: 1242
Status: 
Offline
 
Well, I can only find Li-Ion PP3's that claim to have 600mAh,
and only these may be discharged at a rather high rate.

Ni-MH PP3's I've found only in the 200mAh range so far.

What make have you found?


OK - 'Durable cell GTL' - found it :-)

Interesting enough, all what I've seen comes from China,
so be aware of a fake.

All the 9V reviews do not list them at all, the great manufacturers,
like Duracell or Ansmann, have only 270mAh to offer,
not without reason.




____________________
Regards, H.
Back To Top

 Posted: Fri Mar 12th, 2021 01:23 pm
  PMQuoteReply
34th Post
Steve Soar
Registered
 

Joined: Sun Feb 24th, 2019
Location:  
Posts: 47
Status: 
Offline
 
I agree, must be fake,

it won't be the first China mislabelling I've seen.  


Well will give it a test, and it will be returned for refund if less than 900

Will let you know.


Cheers Steve


Back To Top

 Posted: Mon Mar 15th, 2021 07:37 pm
  PMQuoteReply
35th Post
Helmut
Registered


Joined: Sun Feb 17th, 2013
Location: Friedberg, Germany
Posts: 1242
Status: 
Offline
 
It all depends on what you want to achieve.

Supercaps are best if you employ command control via rail-pickup.
There you can overcome short dead spots and be safe of runaways,
as the limited charge allows buffering for rather short, but sufficient, times.
High capacities are even counterproductive.

When using R.C. with rail power supply,
you can use supercaps up to any capacity your vehicle's space allows for.
The key point is that you don't lose control when contact is lost,
as compared to Command Control.

The energy densitiy is lower than that of batteries,
which makes them the primary choice for any 'dirty rail' application.
As I've demonstrated, even the tiniest vehicles allow for R.C. battery operation.
 
A 'drawback' is the need for an on-off switch, however.
One can easily forget to switch off at the end of an operating session.
There are methods to avoid inadvertent battery draining by automatic shutoff.

Correction: I'm pretty sure I wrote 'Dead Rail' above, only then the sentence makes sense.

Last edited on Mon Mar 15th, 2021 10:17 pm by Helmut



____________________
Regards, H.
Back To Top

 Posted: Mon Mar 15th, 2021 10:39 pm
  PMQuoteReply
36th Post
Si.
Moderator


Joined: Thu Feb 23rd, 2012
Location: London
Posts: 5826
Status: 
Offline
 
It doesn't make sense to me, to say 'dead rail' in that context.

'dirty rail' does, as I read it applying to the option, prior to 'batteries'.


But then the 'term' dead rail, makes little sense to use in R.C. anyway,

the very next sentence, someone is talking about powered rails !


The term Battery Powered Radio Control, or 'B.P.R.C.', is descriptive,

and which has evolved & been almost universally adopted on Freerails.


Also Dead Rail is yet more confusing, as it has become a company name.

It's best to avoid the words DEAD RAIL, as some folk start popping rivets !


It is of course possible to interpret sentences, in several different ways.


Sometimes, also the vast amount of 'typos' Posted, benefit from proofing,

some Postings using all lower-case, acronyms Posted in lower-case etc.


It's just nice to have stuff up on the Board, that is easy to look at & read.

We do our best to make that happen, in whatever small ways we can.


For the most part those tireless efforts, result in an overall improvement.




____________________

' Mysterious Moose Mountain ' - 1:35n2 - pt.II
http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=7318&forum_id=17&page=1

' M:R:W Motor Speedway !!! ' - 1:32 Slotcar Racing Layout
http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=59295&st=0&a
Back To Top

 Posted: Tue Mar 16th, 2021 11:05 am
  PMQuoteReply
37th Post
Helmut
Registered


Joined: Sun Feb 17th, 2013
Location: Friedberg, Germany
Posts: 1242
Status: 
Offline
 
To make it clear,
as soon as you opt for non-powered rails, or BPRC, the name says it all -

batteries are much to be preferred for their higher energy density,
and less space requirement for the intended purpose.




____________________
Regards, H.
Back To Top

 Posted: Wed Mar 17th, 2021 07:58 pm
  PMQuoteReply
38th Post
Si.
Moderator


Joined: Thu Feb 23rd, 2012
Location: London
Posts: 5826
Status: 
Offline
 
Hi Helmut  :brill:


I can only congratulate you, on your top notch & excellent Posts.  :bow:

Always well informed, entertaining & a pleasure to read !  :)


If I were to attempt to write, even a simple, Posting in German ...

... I wouldn't even know the word for "battery", let alone anything else.  :us:


This is despite owning & listening very carefully, to ALL my 'Kraftwerk' LPs !

My Dad preferred Schlager & ABBA, but of course I'm much too mooodern !!  :P

( yes, I know ABBA are Swedish ! )


I am amazed that anyone can even speak a 2nd language ...  :shocked:

... let alone write it down & 'technically' as 1st class, as you do so well !

I tried learning some French once, but couldn't get Past "gimme a beer" ...  :dope:

... & I'm pretty sure the barmaid was having a giggle about my attempt at that !
( could have been my plaid shirt or haircut though )  :old dude:


[toast]


Si.


That ^^ sentence COULD be read BOTH ways ...

... but 'dead' would be 49% correct & 'dirty' 51% correct.  ;)


I do like the way "... from 'station to station', back to Dusseldorf City ..." ...

... can refer to BOTH train stations & the David Bowie tour of the same name !


Trans Europe Express ... Trans Europe Express ... Trans Europe Express ... Tran Express ...

( my LP jumps at that point, predating Afrika Bambaataa's sampling, by at least 10 years ...

... but of course he DIDN'T 'sample' that record anyway, but re-programmed the beat ! )

:pimp:




____________________

' Mysterious Moose Mountain ' - 1:35n2 - pt.II
http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=7318&forum_id=17&page=1

' M:R:W Motor Speedway !!! ' - 1:32 Slotcar Racing Layout
http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=59295&st=0&a
Back To Top

 Posted: Tue Mar 23rd, 2021 04:03 pm
  PMQuoteReply
39th Post
Si.
Moderator


Joined: Thu Feb 23rd, 2012
Location: London
Posts: 5826
Status: 
Offline
 
Just to add to the 'experimental junk' on the work bench...  :brill:  ;)

...I thought I'd get some SUPER CAPACITORS  :shocked:  to play with ! 


I found an excellent & cheap place on eBay to get them from.  :P

The sellers Link is now out of date, but plenty on eBay to find.





They had TONS of different values & sizes & Voltages to choose from.  L:

I bought five  1.5 Farad  2.7 Volt  ones to check out.


They seemed to be the most suitable for space saving & power capacity.  :)

They were pretty cheap I think, at only £1.49p inc. P&P for five.


The kind of thing I had in mind, is similar to this schematic below.  :dt:





Also five of them wired in 'series', gives me a nice  13.5 Volt  rating.  :thumb:


So I'm following any  SUPER CAPACITOR  developments closely !  :cool:


:java::moose: :dt:


Si.




____________________

' Mysterious Moose Mountain ' - 1:35n2 - pt.II
http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=7318&forum_id=17&page=1

' M:R:W Motor Speedway !!! ' - 1:32 Slotcar Racing Layout
http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=59295&st=0&a
Back To Top

 Posted: Wed Mar 24th, 2021 09:07 am
  PMQuoteReply
40th Post
Steve Soar
Registered
 

Joined: Sun Feb 24th, 2019
Location:  
Posts: 47
Status: 
Offline
 
Hi, 

Ideally you need some way of making the super-capacitors share the charge,
otherwise the super-capacitor with the lowest capacitance, will over voltage.

I would suggest you might try a 2v7 Zener-diode with a series resistor,
across each super-capacitor.

Regards

Steve


Back To Top


 Current time is 04:42 am
Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  5  6  Next Page Last Page  

Top



UltraBB 1.172 Copyright © 2007-2016 Data 1 Systems